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The mouths that roar: Frank Shamrock on Fedor/Henderson & Chael Sonnen on Rampage

By Zach Arnold | July 28, 2011

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Headline of the Day

K-1 sold to Japanese real estate firm Barbizon

A Tokyo real estate company buying fighting trademarks & brands? Your initial reaction to the sale and to whom the trademarks got sold to is probably the correct one. No further comment needed (on the sale).

In the larger picture, the state of the fight game in Japan is in real deep trouble on a large scale. The Sumo match-fixing scandal and the yakuza scandal involving PRIDE basically killed off any sort of legitimate corporate or fan interest in the marketplace. As one insider described it to me, the remaining fans who go to shows are viewed as naive marks and idiots (similar to how the masses in America look down on wrestling fans). The best discussion on the state of the Japanese scene can be found here.

MMA Training: Upside Down Guard Sweep with Matt Mitrione (and Pat Barry).

Mr. TRT channeling his inner Andy Kaufman on Anderson Silva and wanting to fight win regardless if he wins or loses to Yushin Okami in Brazil: “I got no problem slapping Anderson around again just for fun, just for laughs, just to entertain myself.”

He accused Anderson of being afraid of Okami and cheating with a kick in their previous encounter. “He acted like it was an L.A. gang riot as opposed to Mixed Martial Arts.”

And a word for Rampage after Rampage made fun of him at a recent presser: :Well, basically I couldn’t understand a word he just said without an interpreter, but by the tone of it I’d say he’s got a problem with me, so… we can settle that. If he wants to introduce us, we can do that. We got a forum for that, it’s called The People’s Octagon. I’ll be there.”

Frank Shamrock talks Fedor vs. Henderson

“I think stylistically, you know, the match favors Dan Henderson. If Henderson can make this an inside-fighting game and can use that Olympic-calber clinch wrestling and Greco Roman wrestling, I think he can tire out Fedor and get him n compromising positions, beat him up real good, and hit him with the H-Bomb (overhand right).

“I think [Fedor would] have an advantage on the ground in the submission ability, in particular on his back, but you’re talking about Dan Henderson, you know, he’s an Olympic-calber Greco Roman guy. He’s the strongest guy I’ve ever tied up with my life, it’s like grabbing an oak tree and I just think that if he can evade the strikes, keep his hands clean, and get on the inside and pummel Fedor, tire him out, get him into round one and get him into round two and then get him on his back and pound on him, I just think it’s a different story. Now, if he catches strikes early on, you know that what Fedor’s does, he’s going to knock him out.”

Sherdog survey of fighters says Fedor is viewed as a slight favorite to win. Dana White on Fedor:

If I’ve got to still give Fedor his digs, my dig would be, “Dude, you’re fighting a 185-pounder.” Henderson’s got a great chin, he’s durable, he’s got good wrestling, he can stay out of submissions, and all the great things I can say about Henderson, but Henderson weighs 185 pounds. So I actually think this fight, as far as Fedor is concerned, it’s a lose lose for him.

Dana also says that Zuffa hasn’t ran enough shows and that there’s ton of international demand for live events.

David Williams on why Marloes Coenen should beat Miesha Tate. Are these two ladies competing to become the next face of women’s MMA?

Latest fight lines for UFC 133

Topics: Japan, K-1, Media, MMA, StrikeForce, UFC, Zach Arnold | 56 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |

56 Responses to “The mouths that roar: Frank Shamrock on Fedor/Henderson & Chael Sonnen on Rampage”

  1. larrycraig says:

    I hate that Frank Shamrock is the face of any MMA promotion…or involved in MMA at all.

    Talk about overrated…I dont think he is a hall of famer or really very noteworthy in the history of MMA. He was around before any fighters were really any good.

    • Stel says:

      Yeah frank is no good, he beat Tito and Hendo and those guys were some of the worst fighters, you know they were not going to be good fighters, not like they could hang with the fighters we got today. Frank got beat by loosers like Renzo Gracie and Bas rutten neither of whom are respected or have ever achieved anything in mma.

    • Zack says:

      LOL @ F. Shamrock not being noteworthy in the history of MMA.

    • The Gaijin says:

      This is one of the more aggressively retarded statements I have read in a long, long while.

      You can say a number of negative things about Frank Shamrock, but this is not one of them.

    • edub says:

      He was only the #1 pfp fighter in the world for a year or two. Definitely overrated…

      • larrycraig says:

        Well according to many people (esp on this site), Fedor’s #1 P4P status for a few years didnt prevent him from being overrated…

    • 45 Huddle says:

      Not sure why this guy is getting hated on so much.

      Frank Shamrock was a pioneer of the sport, nothing else.

      He was a pioneer of cross training. Just like Royce Gracie was the pioneer of BJJ in MMA. Or Mark Coleman was the pioneer of Ground and Pound.

      He fought in an era that has very little meaning to the current level of competition today….

      • The Gaijin says:

        “Talk about overrated…I dont think he is a hall of famer or really very noteworthy in the history of MMA. He was around before any fighters were really any good.”

        Umm…how about that ridiculous statement for starters?!

        The guy was the very best of the best of the sport, but unfortunately for himself and his legacy came along too early in the sports’ development. The fact that he, his talents and training were LIGHT YEARS ahead of everyone else might be a pretty good indicator of his place in history.

        He also forced “the current level of competition today” (redundancy department of redundancy) to become true mixed martial artists via his success and cross-training efforts…the very best of the sport are not “one discipline” fighters b/c they saw that they had to train like guys like Frank or become obsolete. Fighters that are catalysts for change in a sport usually have a pretty good place in history.

        • 45 Huddle says:

          But that’s the thing…

          He wasn’t great. He was just ahead of the curve.

          You don’t see that in established sports these days. Guys are great because they are great. There is no edge because everybody else has already figured out the optimal way to play the sport.

          GSP today is just great. He’s not ahead of the curve. Everybody already knows all of the tricks. Sure the sport is still evolving, but as a much much slower rate.

          Being ahead of the curve counts for something, but not much….

        • The Gaijin says:

          Purely retarded.

          He was easily the best fighter in the world for a long period of time. That in and of itself means he is/was historically a great fighter. The fact that he was ahead of the curve makes him even better.

        • 45 Huddle says:

          Long period of time?

          He got beaten up by Bas Rutten in Pancrase and didn’t have a great record.

          He had FIVE…. Yes, only FIVE UFC fights…. And people act like he was a god of MMA. After he left the UFC, he didn’t fight any legit competition.

          Even of his 5 fights in the UFC, one was a revenge fight for a previous loss and the other was against a very green Jeremy Horn. He really had 3 legit title fights.

          So to say he was the best fighter for a very long time doesn’t go with what his history was….

        • The Gaijin says:

          1.) Bas Rutten is considered one of the best, if not, THE BEST Pancrase fighter of all time. So having a 1-2 record against him is hardly some massive blackmark on his record.

          2.) He held the KOP title when Pancrase was considered one of the best “mma” organizations around.

          3.) FIVE UFC fights. You neglect to mention that ALL FIVE FIGHTS WERE FOR THE UFC BELT. Five title matches, 5-0. Yeah, how “overrated” of him.

          So he had a two year stretch where he was among the best in Pancrase and a three year stretch where he was UFC champ and generally considered the P4P best…but I guess that’s not really a match for things like “the Machida era”.

        • nottheface says:

          So apparently Dick Fosbury is overrated in the world of high jumping? Or James Corbett in boxing? or George Mikan in basketball? Or, hell, Babe Ruth? All athletes who were the best of their era, but reached that zenith because of the advances they made in their sports – for being ahead of the curve – and not because they were great by today’s standards. Ironically many of today’s athletes wouldn’t be so great if those innovators weren’t around.

        • 45 Huddle says:

          Yes, comparing Babe Ruth to today’s players is a disagrace to the level of athletes today.

          He was hitting more home runs then entire teams were back in his day. Just ahead of the curve….

          And I’m a Yankees fan…

        • The Gaijin says:


  2. Light23 says:

    Why are they viewed as marks and idiots? Is it because they don’t know of Yakuza involvement or that they’re funding a Yakuza business?

    • Zach Arnold says:

      That, along with the fact that with the match-fixing scandals in Sumo (and all the years of rumors in MMA about the mob bosses betting on big fights), it’s become kind of a similar disdain by the masses for the fans still showing up (similar to how people make fun of those who still go to WWE events in the States). Really difficult situation right now.

  3. Keith Harris says:

    The People’s Octagon? I wonder where on earth Chael got that line from? 😉

  4. 45 Huddle says:

    1) From a recent quote, sounds like Dana White is going to be micromanaging his company even more. Sounds like he isn’t liking how someof the deals have been going when he has delegated the responsibilities to his employees. Man, he really is Vince McMahon Jr….

    Just a hint…. I bet the final straw had to do with Overeem and Sept/Oct issue. I bet one of his employees who didn’t have the final say off the cuff told Overeem’s camp that the next round was in October, when in reality nothing was set in stone. But Overeem took it as being the official word….

    Stuff like that is typically why a guy like White would reign in even more control….

    2) Fighters with big egos? No way. At least when Strikeforce is gone, it will take away Frank Shamrock’s main platform. The guy is a tool.

    3) I don’t mind more fight cards, but it needs to be done right. They cannot add more to PPV. Right now the Feather and Bantam divisions are being placed on the backburner on the undercards because they don’t have the TV time for them….. That would be a nice change…

  5. matthew says:

    I have to argee with 45 on the fight cards. Any more cards they add need to be free. The current amount they have is already taxing if you buy everyone.

  6. david m says:

    I can’t figure out how anyone can justify picking Henderson over Fedor. Some of the comments on here made me LOL. The logic was amazing; “Fedor struggled with Silva and Werdum and even Rogers” I have news for you, Fedor is tiny next to all those guys, and Henderson would have lost to all 3 of them. The idea, amazingly, is that beating Feijao or Babalu makes Henderson better than a 220 pound guy struggling with guys who have a huge size advantage over him. What a country.

    Fedor is a much better striker, he is bigger, stronger, younger, faster, hits harder, has better head movement, better submissions, his takedowns are probably better than Dan’s given Fedor’s size adv, and he is just a better all-around fighter. People put far too much stock in 1 or 2 fights in this mma bubble. Does anyone here honestly believe Henderson beats Bigfoot?

    If Henderson makes it out of the first round I will be surprised.

    • Tomer says:

      Fedor was also struggling against Matt Lindland, who’s around Henderson’s size.

      • edub says:

        If you define struggling as: “almost got taken down, then won by armbar in under 3 minutes”.. then yes he struggled.

        • The Gaijin says:

          Speaking of…Fedor-Rogers was on Showtime Extreme last night, and watching that fight again – there is another great example of people getting caught up in the moment or just having a terrible ability to analyze a fight. Because people spouting about Fedor “struggling with”, “losing a round to”, “almost being finished by” or “dominated by” Rogers were/are on some serious drugs.

        • nottheface says:

          I’ve been making that argument since Nov 8, 2009, that Fedor easily took the first. Not that Brett didn’t put up a fight or get him in trouble, but it was a clear 10-9 round for Fedor. The two things that seem to color everyone’s perception of that fight is:
          1) the surprise that Brett Rogers was able to put up a fight at all.
          2) that a jab by Brett reopened a cut on Fedor in the opening seconds and Fedor ended up bleeding everywhere. As if Fedor getting cut signifies anything.

        • Tomer says:

          Well, he did illegally grab the ropes to kill Lindland’s momentum, swept him in midair and was on top.

    • 45 Huddle says:

      Loser Leaves FO bet? No name change. No tricks.

      Assuming there is no DQ’s or draws.

      If Dan Henderson wins, you (David M) stop posting here.

      If Fedor Emelianenko wins, I stop posting here.

      I’m that confident in Dan Henderson winning. Fedor is completely shot, even against an above average Middleweight he is going to lose.

      Ready to make the bet David M?

      • The Gaijin says:

        Coming from a guy that has left/quit/threatened to leave more times than Brett Favre and Ric Flair combined…

        go get your attention from somewhere else.

        • 45 Huddle says:

          This is legit. If I lose I will leave. You can even have Zach Arnold verify it. I’m sure he can see where my posts come from.

        • The Gaijin says:

          No offense dude, but I doubt Zach gives a rotten-rat f%%k to attempt to monitor/verify such information in order to enforce your loser leaves bet.

      • Jonathan says:

        I will take that bet 45 Huddle.

        Let me know if you accept.

      • David M says:

        I am pretty damn confident in Fedor, but I don’t really see how that relates to my ability to come here. If you want to put some money on it, I can open a paypal and you can too, and we can each send the money to Zach’s paypal account before the fight, and he sends all of the money to whoever wins. Deal? Put 50 on it?

        • Jonathan says:

          I noticed no one is egging me on to stay….

          Guess that means 45 Huddle is a better poster then I am.

          Oh well, back to my Rocky montage training.

        • edub says:

          Nooooo, Jonathon don’t gooo….

      • Nepal says:

        45. Don’t do this.

        As much as I think you are crazy some times, I love reading your comments. You leaving (and you most certainly will because Hendo has only a remote chance of winning) would create a hole in the FO comment section.

        Also, although David M most certainly will win your bet I wouldn’t want to see him leave either. He makes some great and backed up comments that I enjoy reading too.

        • 45 Huddle says:

          I’m burnt out. I need a reason to leave to be honest….

          I miss just watching the sport just to enjoy it…. Not picking it apart to the point that is almost takes away from it….

        • Nepal says:

          OK, I can understand that. You are prolific to say the least in your addition to this site so I can see wanting to take a break.

          How about we allow you to get out of your “committment to leave” after say…….6 months or a year and then you can come back???

          Of course there is still technically a chance that you will not leave. I mean that if hell freezes over and Hendo actually wins 🙂

        • edub says:

          Just take a step back for while then. No reason to leave altogether.

  7. bluerosekiller says:

    I believe that Fedor’s being very much underrated here regarding Saturday night’s contest as well.
    I think it’s gotten to the point where it’ll actually be considered an upset by most when Fegor wins. And, I’m fairly certain that he WILL win. Finishing Hendo inside two rounds. Either by punches or submission.
    Sure, the American COULD win. He’s multiple time World Champion with big power. But, not enough to effect Fedor’s chin IMO. But, the Russian does have some scar tissue around his eyes that could make him vulnerable
    So, I can’t TOTALLY discount Hendo’s chances.
    Therefore, I won’t be taking up 45H on his bet offer.

  8. david m says:

    I saw a video of Fedor sparring w/number 4 cruiserweight boxer in the world (a Russian dude, just beat RJJ), I forgot his name. Anyways, Fedor looked good against him. He was landing his straight lead right hand at will; if he can do that against someone whose entire life has been spent avoiding punches, what fucking chance does HGHenderson have to avoid that shit? With the tiny gloves, Fedor is likely to cave Dan’s skull in.

    Also for the record, Henderson is not in Fedor’s league in a historical sense. His “win” against Nog in Rings was a joke; frankly I don’t consider Rings to be mma, but that is another topic.

    Anyways, taking that “win” out of the equation, he has lost to almost all the HOFers he ever fought who were in their primes. To me, Wanderlei’s prime ended with Mirko’s high kick. The Silva that Hendo beat was a shell of himself. Dan is a guy who split with Misaki, won a gift against Shogun, was embarrassed by Jake Shields, dominated by Wanderlei in their first fight apart from one big punch early, and probably didn’t deserve the win against Franklin. It is amazing to me that people on this site, including Zach, can somehow reconcile the idea that a guy who got fucking creamed by a 170 pounder, can somehow beat the best HW in the history of the sport, who is finally not going to be giving up 20+ pounds in a fight. Unbelievable. I’m not going to say that anyone picking Dan is a xenophobic mark for American wrestlers and or hates Fedor; rather I will say that is probable but not definite.

    I could understand if Fedor had looked shot and chinny his last fight; he did not look so. He looked a second slower than he used to be, but he was fighting someone 50 pounds heavier! He was still going for subs at the end of the fight and was game to continue.

    Hendo is gonna get fucked.

    • The Gaijin says:

      I’ll pick first and then see who ya got edubs:

      Fedor – sub rd. 2.
      Coenen – late rd. sub. (but Miesha Tate has a fantastic heiny :))
      Lawler – tko rd. 2
      Daley – ko rd. 1
      Smith – ko rd. 2

      I see I went with all finishes – so I’m likely way off the reservation with my picks here.

      • The Gaijin says:

        1. I’m not far off with you on the Fedor-Dan fight…I just don’t think Dan get’s KO’d and I see it being an Anderson-style finish (no not a Segal-kick!) where he drops him and then finishes him with an RNC or armbar.

        2. I completely agree Tate will be using the wrestling advantage, but I just think Coenen is very dangerous from her back and will catch her in one when the fight goes into deep waters.

        3. Again, not too much to argue with you re. Lawler/Kennedy as most of what you said was true – but I just see Lawler being able to stuff Kennedy early and beat him up before the gassing comes into play. He’s actually been a little better re. his cardio lately hasn’t he? I think the Babalu fight was a bit of an aberration due to him bulking up to 195…he seemed to be ok cardio wise with Jacare…or am I “misremembering”?

        4. I think Smith does a comeback KO against a better fighter…but one that’s not WAY more skilled than him like Diaz, Daley or even Le.

        5. We do disagree re. Daley – he got wrestlef*cked by a couple of the very best at that Kos and Shields, but Woodley only wishes he was one of those guys…I like him less and less every time out and this is a guy that eked wins with Nate Coy and Tarec. I think he’ll get nuked.

        • edub says:

          2. Definitely understand the thought on Coenen being too dangerous from her back. I went kinda back and forth on this one, and went with Tate because Hunter and I picked the same on pretty much everything so I wanted to differ here (eventhough I might have picked her anyway).

          3. Yes, actually he did gas against Jacare. He came out after the fight and said something along the lines of “I felt like I had no air left after the first round was over”. That thought actually makes sense when he drops Jacare, and instead of following with ground and pound or making him stand he just kind of dropped into his guard.

          4. This was another one I went back and forth on as I mentioned in the article. I just think the power has left him on his way down to 170, and he didn’t really pick up any speed in the cut. Some people just lose too much on the scale when they start making drastic cuts late in their career, and IMO Scott is one of those people. Definitely couls be wrong though, as I said i was kinda in the middle on this one too.

          5. Yep, we definitely differ on Daley/Woodley. I just think Daley’s time as a top tier contender are up. IMO he built his resume off wins against guys that aren’t that good Hazelett(who had a lot of people fooled including myself), Yuya Shirai, Daniel Acacio, and Kampman who he just caught early (ala Kevin Randleman-Crocop). He barely got by Jorge Masvidal, who while underrated isn’t even a top ten LW right now.

  9. david m says:

    To pick Dan Henderson over Fedor, you have to actually convince yourself that Jake Shields is a better fighter than Fedor. Not a better fighter p4p, but actually a better fighter in an open-weight sense. Is Jake Shields a better grappler than Fedor? No. Does he have better takedowns than Fedor? No. Better subs? No. Better standup? LOL. Better speed/strength/movement? Obviously not. Better chin? Laughable.

    The geniuses amongst you who have convinced yourselves Dan will win have basically told yourselves “Fedor lost to 285 pound giant after getting submitted by the best 250 pound sub artist in mma history. He sucks. Dan got humiliated for 4 straight rounds by a top 10 170 pounder, but he bounced back by beating some guys who aren’t good enough to be in the UFC! He ROOLZ! FEDOR SUX!”

    • Chuck says:

      To be fair to Hendo, Hendo has shown recently that he is better at heavier weights than middleweight, because he can carry more muscle and strength (Hendo doesn’t do the speed game AT ALL, so best off he can muster up all the strength and muscle he can).

      But I am still picking Fedor to win. Three round decision. If it was a five rounder I would pick Fedor by submission or TKO in four or five.

  10. david m says:

    Big Nog (a lot bigger now that he seems to have low T) breaks down Fedor v Hendo, and because he is sane, gives Fedor the advantage in every category.

  11. David m says:

    Congrats to Henderson, low T is really working out for him.

    Good call to those who picked Henderson. I think the stoppage was questionable but not terrible.

    • Zach Arnold says:

      Where’s your apology to a stupid mark like me? 🙂

      • david m says:

        Zach: I apologize for calling you out on being a stupid mark; that was inconsiderate of me. I should have factored in Dan’s continued steroid use when making my pick. He may be 40, but he is as strong now as he was at 25. Poor Fedor. That was fucking sad. Props to Hendo for sweeping him at the end; I don’t think I have ever seen Fedor get swept except by Nog momentarily (who was quickly re-reversed by Fedor) in one of their fights.

        Kennedy v Robbie and Daley v Woodley sickened me. MMA has changed for the worse with the elimination of PRIDE rules. Seeing wrestlers able to continually dive at their opponents feet with impunity, with no fear of a knee to the head, is awful. Tim Kennedy was literally clinging to Robbie Lawler’s feet for dear life; in a real fight or in PRIDE, Robbie would have finished him. Daley stuffed Woodley COLD a bunch of times but couldn’t capitalize. Much of the drama is gone; now, whoever gets top position wins the fight unless he gets knocked out. Fuck that shit.

        • Chuck says:

          You couldn’t knee to the head of a downed opponent (face down) in PRIDE either. PRIDE’s rules stated that if a fighter is face down on all fours (that’s the kicker) you couldn’t kick or knee. I remember fighters raising one of their opponent’s arms so they could legally kick and knee (that was the rule. If a fighter is face but one arm was off the mat then it was fair game).

          If the fighter was down but face UP….well….

        • Zach Arnold says:

          You can’t say that I neglected the TRT issue at work here, I wish it would go away, but instead it seems to be increasing.

        • david m says:

          Chuck: Good catch on the nuance of that rule; I don’t remember ever hearing about that/noticing it but I will take your word for it. I don’t ever recall a fighter being penalized for any kind of kick to the face in Pride.

          Zach: Low T is a hell of a drug. Fedor needs to start juicing out of his mind so that his body stops producing testosterone so that he can juice legally. What a fucking scheme! Dan’s signature right hand should be called the Low T Count. I can hear Mauro now: “Fedor has Henderson in trouble, but wait, Dan hits him with a Low T Count to the head! Fedor is out!”

        • Chuck says:

          Check out Mark Kerr vs. Igor Vovchanchyn at PRIDE 7. Kerr landed a hellacious knee strike on top of Igor’s noggin when Igor was face down. Igor was out COLD, and the ref originally DQ’ed Kerr, but it got changed to a no contest. Yeah I remember a few fights the standing fighter would raise on of their opponent’s arms to legally kick (can’t remember specific fights but it has happened). It was a silly rule. What’s the difference if the fighter was on all fours or if one arm was raised?

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