« UFC 70 recap | Home | A quick note on Fight Opinion Radio »
Sunday slam: Mirko’s loss and the PRIDE name
By Zach Arnold | April 22, 2007
By Zach Arnold
Our latest site poll results for the following question: Which league do you see surviving the longest?
- PRIDE – 66%
- Elite XC – 26%
- IFL – 8%
A new poll has been added to the right side of the page.
On all of the major international news wire services, Gabriel “Napao” Gonzaga is now a star name. A plethora of news articles profiling his big upset win over Mirko Cro Cop. Here are some snapshots of the fight by famed Japanese photographer Susumu Nagao. It even made the top story on the front page of the AOL Sports Blog.
However, the story slant in Japan is different. The story of the UFC 70 main event fight was about Mirko. More importantly, in the eyes of the remaining hardcore PRIDE fans left in Japan who watched the UFC telecast on WOWOW, the bigger issue was how Mirko’s loss would damage the legacy of PRIDE. The killer from the star-studded 2006 Open-Weight GP tournament (Mirko beat Hidehiko Yoshida, Wanderlei Silva, and Josh Barnett) lost.
Mirko’s loss was devastating in more ways than one in the eyes of the Japanese fans. To those remaining PRIDE fans, Mirko was the one who carried the PRIDE ‘signboard’ on his back in UFC. The comparisons of Mirko/Gonzaga to Mirko/Randleman are already being made. (I don’t think the comparison to the Randleman fight is accurate because Randleman caught Mirko with a punch, whereas Gonzaga dominated this entire fight on the ground and standing up.)
Black Eye 2 took note that this unofficially makes it 3-0 in the PRIDE vs. UFC war (which is something the PRIDE hardcores do take stock in). Those three fights: Jeff Monson over Kazuyuki Fujita, Andrei Arlovski over Fabricio Werdum, and Gabriel Gonzaga over Mirko Cro Cop. Plus, throw in Frank Trigg over Kazuo Misaki, Kenny Florian over Dokonjonosuke Mishima, and Nick Diaz over Takanori Gomi for good measure. Gryphon points this out as well.
Except Gryphon makes a larger analogy that will be lost on non-professional wrestling fans. He compared the number of PRIDE fighters losing against UFC fighters in a similar vein to what happened in 1995-1996 during the UWF International (the precursor to PRIDE) vs. New Japan feud. Except for UWF-International’s ace Nobuhiko Takada, everyone else on the UWF-Inter squad lost when they competed in the New Japan ring. The same is happening with PRIDE fighters in the UFC octagon now.
Image damage to the PRIDE name has been done. Just ask Mirko’s Japanese agent, Ken Imai.
Onto today’s headlines.
- AOL Sports Blog: UFC 70 – Gabriel Gonzaga knocks out Mirko Cro Cop
- The Sun Journal (Maine): Ultimate fighting (article about Amanda Buckner)
- Fox Sports: Gabriel Gonzaga stuns Mirko
- Fight Report: Belfort wins, Tank loses at Cage Rage 21
- The Los Angeles Times: Gonzaga knocks out Mirko Cro Cop – heavy favorite is KO’d, ruining potential heavyweight title match with Randy Couture
- The Washington Post: Gonazaga upsets Filipovic – fight for title looms next
- The Las Vegas Sun: Q & A w/ Lorenzo Fertitta & Dana White
- The Republican (MA): Gonzaga pulls upset
- The Minot Daily News (South Dakota): The Beast (Dan Severn) runs wild
- The Canadian Press: Dana White speaks out as MMA-boxing feud heats up
- UFC HP: ‘Napao’ stuns Cro Cop, earns shot at Couture
- Gambling 911: MMA underdogs keep paying out big in UFC betting with Gonzaga UFC 70 win
- The Boston Herald: UFC Gonzaga’s kicks into gear
- The Fightworks Podcast: Pablo Popovitch and Evan Shoman interviews
- Virtual Manchester: UFC draws capacity crowd in Manchester
- The Nashua Telegraph (New Hampshire): Health-conscious cook by day straps on the gloves at night
- The Honolulu Advertiser: Kane’ohe fighter has tall task in K-1 World GP
- The Clitheroe Today (UK): Bisping hits big in Manchester
Topics: BoDog, Boxing, Japan, K-1, Media, MMA, PRIDE, UFC, UK, Zach Arnold | 54 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |
karma’s a bitch – especially to a guy like mirko who just can’t learn
LoL, even though pride is owned by ufc zach’s biased hatred toward pride continues. You get your shots in whenever you can. I know your going to weasel your way out of this somehow, but if werdum and mirko are pride fighters, then I guess we can call rampage and anderson the same. Keep in mind anderson is the champ. Your really proving yourself as a journalist to be no better then the internet marks on the forums who also claimed anderson showed pride superiority. Its all stupid, mma is at such a high level today anyone can beat anyone and its happening internally (Serra vs GSP, Sokodju vs arona/lil nog). If rampage beats chuck again will do an article how prides 205 division is better.
Like I said everyone is loosing today because everyone is becoming to well rounded. Fight money is good enough people train hard, have enough high quality trainers, and can focus on fighting full time. The upsets will continue.
You missed the entire point of the article, which is what the Japanese reaction is. And that’s a story because Dana White and Zuffa think that they will be able to market the shinsei PRIDE in Japan.
So, if they want to know what Mirko’s loss has done for damage in Japan, it’s now being pointed out. Go talk to the major Japanese fight bloggers and ask them about this topic today. I’m not pointing out anything out of the ordinary.
Lest you think that I’m being horribly negative on PRIDE, I’m actually criticizing UFC here for boxing themselves into a corner here with the Mirko situation. Dana White was the one pushing Mirko vs. Fedor for the shinsei PRIDE on NYE 2007. You can kiss that out of the window (likely) now.
How you think about MMA and analyze it is not entirely how the Japanese fans look at the big picture, particularly the few remaining fans left of PRIDE in Japan. If you want to dispute the points raised by the major Japanese bloggers, go right ahead and address them (and address those writers).
Just like I’ll address your past comments towards me on this site. Specifically on PRIDE.
http://www.fightopinion.com/2006/12/13/latest-man-festival-card/
And for the person who said they should use more japanese fighters (In addition to the 9 or so they have on the card already) because japanese people go to the shows. I dont know where you have been but pride does not have a problem with arena sales, thats probably the one thing keeping them going. The only japanese fighters who would boost arena sales for pride beyond what they usually get are yoshida and fujita.
http://www.fightopinion.com/2006/09/26/sakuraba-story-makes-national-headlines/
If having mauro ranallo on your show makes him somehow fair to pride then I dont understand your logic, I just wish his reporting would not always spell the demise of pride, and I can dig you up tons of articles where he hinted towards pride demise and there eventual downfall. All I want to see from him is some positive pride press once in awhile, in his writing, not having mauro on his radio show.
http://www.fightopinion.com/2006/08/10/big-talk-little-interest/
Zach your pride hate has made you utterly incompetent, if you started reporting news non biased, you would have a more accurate depiction of pride.
http://www.fightopinion.com/2006/07/14/developing-revisionist-history/
And fuji tv was so devestating to pride it made up 12 percent according to japanese media of prides profits.
http://www.fightopinion.com/2006/06/28/1000-concerned-stockholders/
Like I said a month ago the wrong doing was selling the bushido series to fsn, the yakuza thing was a scapegoat and fuji let it spread because it made dse look bad, when in reality fuji looked bad because pride sold the series to fsn instead of airing it on fuji network.
Sorry zach as much as your yakuza conspiracy theories went on, it was the selling of the bushido series to fsn, notice the day pride announced it, fuji cancelled it.
http://www.fightopinion.com/2006/05/05/gendai-fires-back-at-dse/
Hey zach why dont you change your website to Ihatepride.com, Iamobsessedwithyakuza.com, or Comehereforprideconspiracytheories.com
GO back to reporting, the person making the biggest fuss speculating on everything is you.
Mirkos loss got me more upset than I’ve ever been about the outcome of a fight. I was screaming at my TV over and over, something I have never done before. I couldn’t sit down, I walked around from room to room holding my head in disbelief. I watched the replay once and then couldn’t take it any more. That’s how much of a Mirko fan I am, a near-weeping pussy fanboy. But I can’t help it.
Gonzaga beat him fairly though. Beyond fairly even; Why Herb Dean stood them up is a mystery – that looked like obvious bias to me, and while I wished so hard for Mirko to win, I want him to win fairly. Gonzaga didn’t seem troubled by getting stood up at all, he just kept going. Mirko on the otherhand, wasn’t his top performing self. My girlfriend said right at the start that mirko didn’t look very intense. And when they were stood up, his shoulders were higher than normal, and something looked wrong about his stance. I think this prooves that even having a mind as tough as Mirkos supposedly is, the mind game is an eternal battle for everyone. When Gonzaga said he wasn’t afraid, he meant it, and he showed it.
Mirko often wins when he pushes the action, but he runs when someone presses back. Gonzaga appeared to have noticed this, and took advantage of it in the best way possible. An amazing performance.
The ankle/knee thing looked absolutely horrifying. Even someone with really good flexibility in those joints can’t twist their foot in even remotely that far without extreme pain. Something must have torn, but the fact that he stood up afterwards gave me a slight sliver of hope. I’m afraid to go looking for medical reports though (the boyband-level fandom again…)
People on sherdog calling for Mirko to retire after this isn’t surprising – that place is some sort of retard sanctuary. Knowing how much dumb shit must be going on there now, I’ll cancel my normal post-fightnight forum trawl. The insightful stuff isn’t worth having to read retarded shit like that. But one comment my girlfriend found on ufcjunkie.com that rang true is that all the upsets come due to fighters being very cautious, lacking any proper offence; It seems that the fear of being tossed down the ranking ladder after a loss (a very real thread in the UFC) makes the big names bring a defensive game. Mirko threw nothing except that body kick that led to the takedown, presumably for fear of exposing himself.
I don’t have much of a point ni all this, I just need to vent my thoughts a bit. I’ll be afraid to sheer for anyone ever again after this.
On another topic: Will all these upsets undermine the legitimacy of the sport? It’s been brought up before, but now the issue is turning red hot. I’m not saying fight outcome is due to luck (not luck at all, in the case of last nights main event), but when there is no consistency or obvious logic to be found, could it hurt MMA? Unpredictability is partially charming, but it’s getting redicilous. Can it be changed? Should it be changed?
I thought it was funny how the UK fans booed. I guess it ain’t only dumb American Fans.
I think the Pride myth about having better fighters was on its last leg going into yesterday. That leg was kicked out from under them.
Notice how the elbows have played a huge role in the big fights.
Anderson Silva used them against Lutter. Gonzaga used them against Cro Cop. I think knees to be added, but elbows are a far more important tool in a fight then stomps are. They completely change the ground game.
“Why Herb Dean stood them up is a mystery – that looked like obvious bias to me, and while I wished so hard for Mirko to win, I want him to win fairly.”
That was the most ironic part. That stand-up was supposed to help Cro Cop.
And I don’t think this undermines the sport.
Couture was a former 4X World Champion. Gonzaga was just unproven. Only Serra’s win in the real monkey wrench because had had fought others and proven to not be the best.
I just wanted to toss my two cents on the obviously large debate on “UFC vs. PRIDE” following this show:
I’m still not really seeing how people can try to convince themselves things like UFC’s HW is clearly > PRIDE’s HW.
Admittedly, Gonzaga vs. Cro Cop is going to be bandied about en masse, however Gonzaga is really a wild card in all this as he’s a new guy, undefeated and no one really knows his potential at this point – he’s akin to UFC’s Sokoudjou.
Arlovski vs. Werdum proved very little for several reasons. (i) It was a recycle of Kharitonov-Werdum and neither fighter looked dominant, good or otherwise – it was a draw imo (ii) Werdum NEVER showed he was really a “contender” in the HW division in PRIDE, rather a prospect/star of the future.
Heath Herring CANNOT be used in this equation as he was NOT a PRIDE fighter when he came over (he hadnt fought there in years) and he was run out on a rail after never being able to crack the “gold ceiling” of PRIDE’s elite caliber fighters.
So really, how does any of these fights – outside a huge upset in the 1st fight really illustrate anything on the lines of PRIDE vs UFC? That’s like saying Chuck Liddell getting throttled by Rampage proves PRIDE’s LHW division is vastly superior to UFC’s and I know how explosive that issue is!
It’s part of a bigger theme, one that I may touch on next week… which is that even if the sport is a shoot, you have to do a good job of ‘protecting’ fighters if you want to build up long-term stars.
When I say protecting, I don’t mean a total string of jobber fights or worked matches. It’s up to the matchmaker to be smart about how you book a fighter (you should look at someone like Mirko as an investment, not just another individual), but UFC has a mentality that they want to see great fights and whoever wins wins. It creates parity, and ultimately parity only benefits one entity – the league itself (UFC). UFC will profit off the parity. The parity creates a situation that can be disadvantageous towards fighters.
Now you might take me to task for that last statement, but there’s a reasoning behind it. Agent representation and protection for fighters in America is not incredibly strong. For every Monte Cox, you end up with 10 other ‘agents’ who have little to no clue what they are doing. This is still a young sport with a lot of non-professionals as agents. MMA is new, so the learning curve on how to protect a client and do what’s best for the long term health of an MMA fighter is not always obvious.
If you look at the ‘major’ agents in the last several years in Japan – Motoko Uchida (BTT), Miro Mijatovic (when he booked Fedor and Mirko), Koichi Kawasaki (Chute Boxe) – those agents understood how to play the system. Ken Imai did as well (to a lesser extent) with Mirko. They understood what ‘pro-wrestling marketing’ was all about and how to get the most mileage out of fighters.
It’s a legitimate question now that PRIDE fighters are facing – do I want to work for UFC, a promotion that doesn’t mind parity and isn’t going to protect my individual career on a full-time level? Yes, if you are a promoter it shouldn’t entirely be your job to protect a fighter’s future – that should be what a good agent does. But there aren’t enough good representatives right now in this business.
UFC’s parity may work for them long-term, but that kind of booking doesn’t fly in certain markets (like Japan). Which is why when it comes to marketing fighters as larger-than life characters like PRIDE did, you can understand why PRIDE had the appeal it did to the general public. The promoters knew how to tell good stories and produce a big mega-event feel. UFC is very minimalistic on that front.
The Brazilian fighters should do well in the cage, plus Barnett and Fedor would likely do fine. It was always guys like Mirko in which the cage was a question mark.
I personally do not like the cage and I prefer the ring. I do think it makes a difference in the way fighters prepare and train for opponents.
I also think the Unified rules help some fighters over others – particularly elbows, which I hate seeing.
Gaijin,
I think the big thing here is that fighters like Noguiera & Fedor built up their reputations on beating many of these fighters.
Now, if the UFC Heavyweights can beat them too, it puts into question Noguiera & Fedor. We all know they are great, but perhaps they weren’t as fantastic as we thought.
It also puts into debate if the UFC Heavyweight Division is really so bad. With young guns like Gonzaga, O’Brien, & Vera…. It might be these guys who are the next evoultionary ste in MMA. Not guys like Fedor, Noguiera, & Cro Cop.
Don’t take this as a Pride bashing. I have always said that it is a split between the UFC & Pride for top talent. Now it is just more obvious then people realized.
Zach,
You mentioned that parity is good for the UFC, but I disagree. Stars draw buy-rates, not perceived equals. In MMA, it is difficult to create a star without a prolonged win streak, and when a star loses, on some level, it hurts his marketability. The UFC doesn’t WANT parity. They didn’t WANT Mirko, GSP or Vanderlei to lose. They wanted mega-stars on hot streaks to have mega-fights.
Tony – I think UFC looks at itself right now as *the sport*. They are not just the leader, but the whole game. From that perspective, parity isn’t such a horrible thing.
I agree with you – stars sell the buyrates, but UFC is positioning itself as the whole game (much like MLB). You want MMA, you watch UFC. In that kind of thinking, parity may not hurt them as much as it might if they had a strong rival pushing big stars.
I don’t disagree that they didn’t want GSP or Mirko to lose, but I don’t think they look at it as entirely damaging since they are making so much money. UFC will push the guys they want to and those guys with the promotional backing will become stars. So, they will push Gonzaga and he’ll be the next star. Then if someone else wins big they’ll push that guy.
When you’re the only game in town, parity likely hurts less.
Personally, I like all these upsets that have been happening in both PRIDE and UFC…
It keeps things interesting. Things were getting stale for a while with not many big new stars being created in the last few years. It’s been a crazy, exciting 6 months, ever since Anderson Silva unexpectedly destroyed Franklin as an underdog.
I don’t even think it’s the fact that these favorites are losing, but the way they are losing that’s making it more exciting, and just goes to reinforce why we watch MMA: for all the exciting possibilities. Who would have thought we’d see BJJ guys knocking out strikers?
I’m thinking — okay, maybe I’m just hoping — Liddell and Fedor are up next. Stay tuned. 🙂
45,
No I totally see your point. I understand its not “PRIDE bashing” at this point that would be moot as they’re basically one and the same, so all of these people making huge waves about it are really just tilting at windmills, so to speak.
But for those who love the promotion wars, this is a great time right now. However, I’d like to point out that Mirko never beat Nog or Fedor (oh yeah I went there, lol) – so we still have to see how those two will do to make a final decision. And I know it was just an example, but I really don’t see “Irish” Jake being any sort of world class star at HW anytime soon haha.
I for one would faaar rather see the 205’ers duel it out in some sort of “best of series” type thing b/c I think there’s a lot that could get sorted out there.
I just wish Dana would run this whole cross promotional thing better….he’s seriously pissing away a HUGE opportunity here if he doesn’t smarten up.
I’m not sure I agree. A Mirko vs Fedor rematch was one of the most anticipated fights ever, but now I’m not sure how much I care about that match-up anymore. I’m not dying to see Gonzaga fight Fedor as much, that’s for sure.
While I’m obviously devastated that Mirko lost (and the UFC probably hope to get more for what they’re paying him), the field in HW right now is all opportunities for them. I can see these next:
Mirko vs. Tim Sylvia
Judging by last nights performance Tim takes this, but I’d like to think that this wasn’t the normal Mirko, just like he wasn’t “on” properly against Hiromitsu Kanehara. But it should be a VERY interesting fight if it happens. The downside would be that if Mirko loses, he’s practically out of the game, and they’ve got the least popular champ ever back as a contender.
Seeing as anything can (and this year, will) happen, giving Mirko another “easy” fight is pointless. So give him big Tim, and if he wins see if he can avenge his loss against big Nog. If he does, title shot. If he loses the first, then give him a lesser fighter. If he loses the second, maybe give him Vera, Kongo or Arlovski.
Big Nog vs. Arlovski
With all the upsets, they might as well throw big Nog in the fire right away. Should they give him a tune-up fight which he ends up losing, that’d be worse than if he loses to Arlovski. Andrei needs to start throwing and big Nog needs to prove/introduce himself to the north american crowd.
Werdum vs. Kongo
For the title of most-boring-HW-ever. Both have capacity (and Werdum has looked MUCH better in the past, so I want him to succeed), but they both need to start performing in order to stay in the UFC. So match them up against eachother, and SOMEONE has to take some chances.
I think ufc is the most brilliant american marketing machine to come out in recent history. I am always unhappy after I watch one of their events, and prefer to watch the better fights singularly on the web. Yet, everytime it comes around I find myself being interested in it. Infact, just recently my friends (who have never watched fights, or a ufc) are calling me to come watch!
The production is the most average production I have ever seen, most fights become monkey elbow matches and the technique we see is brawl-elbow-doubleleg-brawl-elbow, etc. I’m going to take a break from the “sport” now. Does anyone else feel like this too? Also that Bisbing-Sinosic looked and smelled like a work. How the hell does a guy like Sinosic not finish that fight? It just looked weird to me.
ATTENTION MMA FANS:
There are no upsets in a fight.
The only thing guaranteed in life is change.
“Anderson Silva used them against Lutter. Gonzaga used them against Cro Cop. I think knees to be added, but elbows are a far more important tool in a fight then stomps are. They completely change the ground game.”
Important is debatable. For certain styles, yes. Not more exciting though. Stomps and soccer kicks, even when they miss, always leave me momentarily breathless. Two things I remember about Monson-Fujita: the choke and the soccer kick.
I bet Assuerio would have done more and even finished the fight if knees to a grounded opponent would have been allowed. It would have emcouraged more movement and Kongo would ahve been in trouble.
The Bisping-Sinosic work theory I give no credence to. Elvis was exausted. It is very tough to finish when you are worn out like that. I want Elvis back on the UFN against some lesser fighters. He has been great for the UFC and eserves a break.
To the Citizen:
brawl-elbow-doubleleg-brawl-elbow???
uhhhh yes. Its called MMA. Dope
A work? Yeah right. You don’t take that many hard, clean shots doing a work.
And you aren’t sick of the same things happening for fights. You are mad because your favorites are losing and it is making you not want to watch the sport. If Cro Cop KO’d Gonzaga, you would be cheering away.
Every fan goes through this when they watch MMA. They have a set of ideals that everything will turn out fair in the end. It just doesn’t. For me personally, this came from my Pro Wrestling days when you always got the big payoff in the end. This just doesn’t happen in MMA.
This brutal fact hit me between the Pride 7 and Pride 13. First, Mark Kerr got beat by Igor & Fujita. How could the unstoppable guy get beat? Then Shamrock got beaten by Fujita. My world was crumbling. Then Sakuraba got demolished by Silva. How could a star get beat like that? And then he lost the rematch…. Oh my. Around the same time in the UFC, Bohlander & Mezger lost to Ortiz. how could my beloved Lion’s Den get beaten? I thought for sure that Mezger would avenge the loss for Jerry.
And this is the life of a MMA fan. I learned a long time ago to roll with the punches. This isn’t baseball or basketball. In those sports, when your favorites lose, they save face and come back next year. And you never see them get beat down. Being a MMA fan is tough. If Derek Jeter strikes out yesterday, I get to watch him today redeem his performance. Watching fighters you love get KO’d is tough to watch.
It’s too bad that mirko lost but what Irony that he lost to basically his finishing move. I have much respect for Gonzaga but still can’t get his first fight in the UFC out of my mind but it’s passing fast. Cro Cop will hopefully be back, crossing fingers and toes. The only fight that were even worth watching was Etim-Grice unless you want to watch some savage ass kicking then I’ll add Bisbing-Sinosec and CC-Gonzaga. I still think Pride fighters were more entertaining and fun. The cage-ring difference really disqualifies a real test of fighters. As I’ve said before ring is for kick boxing and cage is for wrestliong with some exceptions.
There might be some truth to that. Wrestlers are use to a circle mat. They get point deductions for backing up. Therefore, they are taught to circle to avoid takedowns. It is much easier to circle in the octagon then it is in a ring. With a ring, a fighter can cut corners off and trap their opponents.
I personally prefer a cage. Maybe because I know more wrestling then striking. Plus, I hate fighters getting restarted or the ropes getting in the way of a submission.
I’d say the opposite is more true, in a ring at least you get restarts in the middle, in the cage you’re pinned against fence and can’t move freely to look for submissions.
It’s interesting how the economic descent of Pride seems to roughly parrallel the descent of some of it’s top fighters. You could probably say it began with Gomi losing to Aurelio. There’s no link between the 2, it’s just funny how that worked out.
I really think it is a no brainer that the ring is better. The cage was designed by a movie producer who worked for SEG, wasn’t it? The fence is like a magnet that sucks fighters to it and traps them there. In the ring there is nothing useful on the edges and the focus is more on the center.
Also, the ring allows better camera angles and therefore a better viewing experience.
Note to Goldberg: Kampmann is Danish, not Dutch. That is the second time he made that mistake.
I agree with Zach 100% – I hate seeing elbows on the ground, and I prefer the ring to the cage.
It almost seems like in the US they need the cage now as a marketing tool, so the casual fan gets the sense of ‘danger’ associated with ‘cage fighting’ as opposed to ‘mixed martial arts fighting’.
I disagree. The cage is a constant thing. A fighter knows how it will react when he is up against it. Therefore, it is a perfectly trainable entity. A trained submission guy will alter his submission training for the cage and adapt.
The ropes aren’t fair. Fighters will purposely put their bodies into the ropes to get a restart. There have been multiple times in the IFL were fighters basically fled the ring to avoid the submission. No restart can redo that position. Or sometimes the Pride refs on the outside push the ropes. Depending on when this happens can effect a fight. Sometimes a ref on the outside will push a body part back into the ring. This is purely arbitrary.
As for the cage being designed by a movie producer…. The ring was designed for boxing. Not for grappling.
“The ropes aren’t fair. Fighters will purposely put their bodies into the ropes to get a restart. There have been multiple times in the IFL were fighters basically fled the ring to avoid the submission”
blame the ref. “Golden Boy” Horodecki clearly should have been DQed. Fighters grab the cage too. I agree, screwy things happen with a ring but I enjoy watching ring fights more than cage fights still. There are many possible ways to do restarts to make them fair.
Rings have been used in wrestling for a long long time. Roping off an area for combat goes back several millenia.
This does come to show that nothing in this sport is guaranteed, and yes, it is a sports book worst nightmare. Stuff like this happens in boxing (Tyson/Douglas), but it does not happen nearly as often. And I firmly believe that UFC wants to have nice, good looking guys as their champions (Franklin/GSP) and mean, ugly, tough SOB (Cro Cop/Liddell) as their champions. This stems from a marketing perspective because good marketing hypes fighters, and gives way to big, money making matches. This is something that Pride understood, and I think that is why alot of people like the old Pride, and I count myself among them. But now, what is the UFC going to do with Serra as their champ? He’s short, really ugly, and looks like a punk. I think all along the UFC wanted GSP to be champ, and now they will work it so that either Hughes or GSP become champ again. And the KO of Cro Cop ruined, or at least significantly impaired, any plans that the UFC had, and I know that secretly, they are pissed that Gonzaga won. What organization wants a champion that cannot speak English? Again, it hurts them from a marketing perspective.
For the short term, I don’t think they mind Serra. He is a great talker. And his “Hughes Is A Dick” Promo will sell a lot of PPV’s.
But I do agree that having foreign speaking champions is their worst nightmare. Hence why Cro Cop was 10X’s more valuable to the UFC then Fedor was….
And after re-watching the PPV, I feel that one reason I like Pride more then I do the UFC is simple: Pride does not have Goldberg. I find that guy extremely annoying. Hell, I watched the IFL and I just loved the teamwork of Quadros and Rutten. Pride was good with alot of their announcers until the very last of the show.
Also, did anyone notice that Pride did not do any in-ring interviews right after the fight. If the guy wanted to say anything in his language, he did, and then they had an over-the-PA announcer translate it. I like that better then the shoot, on the spot interviews. And as Anderson Silva proved in his win over Lutter, you do not need to speak English to get your message across.
Man, I love Pride. Forever.
Elbows and knees rule, and the best venue for MMA is Frank Shamrock’s Shootbox mat. Everybody knows this.
IS there place that allows both knees and elbows to the head? I can live without the stomp, but the knees add a whole ‘nother dimension. Why do they have to be mutually exclusive?
“IS there place that allows both knees and elbows to the head?”
Rumble on the Rock used to, but they may fall in line with unified rules now because of their affiliation with the Worldwide Cage Network.
“Elbows and knees rule, and the best venue for MMA is Frank Shamrock’s Shootbox mat. Everybody knows this.”
I can’t find a picture of the shootbox mat and I don’t even remember seeing it. Anyone have a link?
“I can’t find a picture of the shootbox mat and I don’t even remember seeing it. Anyone have a link?”
Just imagine a Jean Claude Van Damme movie or something at the kumite.
ICON still allows PRIDE rules with elbows. Trigg soccer kicked his way to victory over Mayhem for the Icon Middleweight Championship.
If we really wanted to see who are truly the best fighters in the world, than I think we would need rules which allow knees, elbows, soccer kicks and stomps like ICON. Cage Rage has done well with the open guard rule so soccer kicks and stomps would work in a cage and we’ve yet to see a serious injury resulting from a soccer kick or stomp. Chute Boxe made it their bread and butter and we’ve yet to see them kill anyone in the ring.
People may say that elbows shouldn’t be allowed because people can win just by cutting people or that stomps and soccer kicks are barbaric and can be fatal. But the fact is that people will learn how to defend these attacks. That’s why no one has yet suffered a fatal injury from a soccer kick or stomp in PRIDE. And as far as elbows go, there have been only a few fights in the UFC that have been stopped due to cuts.
As far as the whole PRIDE/UFC debate, all I can say is that certain people excel in a given stage and rule set. Shogun and Wanderlei were demolishing opponents in the ring with soccer kicks and stomps. Tito, Hughes and Randy were dominating opponents in the cage by using the fence to pin opponents and rain down elbows.
NJ will have knees by the end of the year. This will start a trend for all the other athletic commissions. MMA will be much better after this.
I am in the same girly, fanboy boat as ukiro is when it comes to Mirko. I like Gonzaga a lot, but I never expected a performance like that. Was Mirko injured or mentally defeated in some way before coming into the fight? Or is Gonzaga just that good? Mirko was outclassed in every way, and I don’t think anyone in a million years would have expected Gonzaga to throw out a right head kick that would rival anything that Mirko has ever done.
Crazy shit.
Rorion Gracie nixed the idea of a boxing ring, so as much as this “movie producers created the cage” meme might technically be true and ever so popular (thanks Josh Gross), it’s very misleading. The cage was already used by a small submission wrestling promotion (Kage Kombat, it’s still around apparently) and was designed by a movie set designer, but was designed to the specification given by SEG and Rorion Gracie/Art Davie. (Source: Clyde Gentry.)
So, in the end, if you hate the cage, you can’t blame cheap theatrics, but you can blame Rorion Gracie. In my opinion, if you want natural and realistic combat, a wall is much more natural than center-ring restarts.
“I’m not sure I agree. A Mirko vs Fedor rematch was one of the most anticipated fights ever, but now I’m not sure how much I care about that match-up anymore. I’m not dying to see Gonzaga fight Fedor as much, that’s for sure.”
Stu, if Cro Cop can’t even gameplan for Gonzaga, what makes you think CC/Fedor 2 would go any differently than the first one?
CC has the most physical talent in the world; I think it’s a shame that he’s letting the fans down by going in unprepared. Gonzaga clearly watched CC/Fedor 1 and saw what he needed to do. CC hasn’t learned a lick from his past losses.
Zach you trying to weasel your way out as I guessed. I am not refering to your article about the reaction in japan, I am refering to your reference to ufc being 4-0 against pride at the very end. Until you decided to throw in comments from gryphon this was just another troll attempt by you to get your kicks in against pride. As I said if you were fair you would consider anderson and rampage pride fighters to, and if minotauro wins will you mention the same? No you wont.The entire point of all my posts is for you to look at both sides of the picture, but you seem incapable of that.
I don’t think anything was physically wrong with CC in that fight except that he couldn’t get his head out of Napao’s leg path. I am not going to theorize any excuses about him being on or off or any BS like that. He probably came in under-prepared and got his ass kicked. Simple as that.
Same thing as Gomi with Diaz and alot of other fighters who lose…maybe even for GSP. This wasn’t some titanic war that went three grueling rounds, but a lopsided domination that ended horribly for one guy.
And guys, the sport is still growing. Do not forget that it is only 15 years old. Imagine how far the NBA has come since its inception. Now think what MMA will be like in another five, ten, or fifteen years?
Scary ain’t it?
“Now think what MMA will be like in another five, ten, or fifteen years?
Scary ain’t it?”
There is nothing scary about jet packs and laser beams.
Just imagine what happens to the kid who is turning 5 or 6 right now who is getting hooked on the sport. Imagine the over-obsessive dad who is grooming his son to be the best damn fighter there is. This happens in football and wrestling all the time…just imagine when it starts happening in MMA. It may not be pretty or good for kids to be pushed so hard, but just imagine what kind of beast is going to come from the crop of kids who are training fifteen years before they have their first pro fight?
Jet packs and laser beams do not have a thing on that.
I ams still all fired up about what happened. We need an emergency edition of FightOpinion Radio. We need to discuss all these upsets and if Newtonian physics still apply to our word.
“Jet packs and laser beams do not have a thing on that.”
You can train 15 years before your pro debut all you want, a laser beam to the grill is still a laser beam to the grill.
Yes…
But if someone is training 15 years with a lightsaber, they will block said laser beam and deflect it back on you, and then maul you savage, Fedor-esk ground and pound
It’s the laser beam you don’t see that gets you.