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UFC Fight Night 24 in Seattle at Key Arena; Big, strong, and fast winners
By Zach Arnold | March 27, 2011
Television: Spike TV
Dark matches
- Lightweights: Nik “You can’t fire me” Lentz defeated Waylon Lowe in R3 in 2’24 with a choke.
- Middleweights: Aaron Simpson defeated Mario Miranda after 3R by unanimous decision.
- Welterweights: Johny Hendricks defeated TJ Waldburger in R1 in 1’35 by TKO (punches).
- Heavyweights: Christian Morecraft defeated Sean McCorkle in R2 in 4’10 with a choke.
- Bantamweights: Michael McDonald defeated Edwin Figueroa after 3R by unanimous decision.
- Welterweights: John Hathaway defeated Kris McCray after 3R by split decision.
- Heavyweights: Mike Russow defeated Jon Madsen by TKO after the end of R2.
- Featherweights: Mackens Semerzier defeated Alex Caceres in R1 in 3’18 with a choke sleeper hold.
Main card
- Featherweights: The Korean Zombie defeated Leonard Garcia in R2 in 4’59 by submission with a Twister.
- Welterweights: Amir Sadollah defeated DaMarques Johnson in R2 in 3’27 by TKO (tap out due to blows).
- Welterweights: Anthony Johnson dominated Dan Hardy after three rounds and won by unanimous decision.
- Light Heavyweights: Phil Davis defeated Antonio Rogerio Nogueira after 3R by unanimous decision.
Over 14,000 at Key Arena. Phil Davis replaced Tito Ortiz, who canceled due to injury.
Topics: Media, MMA, UFC, Zach Arnold | 68 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |
This FN preliminary card is better then the Strikeforce Challenger main cards….
Noguiera vs. Davis is a much better main event then Noguiera/Ortiz. Ortiz is completely shot. I think David wins this one. I actually think he has a better chance of being the lhw champion in 2 years then any other fighter.
Hardy/Johnson should be a good slugfest.
Rogerio
i wanna see shogun rogerio whatever happens next
Love that idea.
Especially since, if things go as I expect them to, both guys will be coming off a loss.
Hopefully we get to see Russow uncork the hammerfist of doom one more time.
McCorkle and Morecraft are both useless. At least the useless guys on Strikeforce’s roster are entertaining (Chad Griggs). I have no idea why Zuffa keeps those guys around.
How is Griggs more entertaining than those guys? They’re all HWs that aren’t that skilled (for top tier promotions), come to finish, and rarely go to decision.
You can bet your life savings that this fight isn’t goinjg to decision either.
From the co-main of UFC 124 to the dark portion of a UFN. McCorkle is back where he belongs.
How is Morecraft useless? I agree about McCorkle, but Morecraft is a young guy who was crushing Struve prior to getting into a shootout. He won’t ever be top 5, but he could certainly evolve into a Kongo-level regular.
The fact that Leonard Garcia is still in the UFC makes me think any good amateur boxer with a year of wrestling and jiu jitsu could be world champion. Someone with that little technique is embarrassing for the sport.
I’ve believed that for years and still do.
A boxer with pop if he can avoid takedowns will dominate any MMA weight class.
I say with pop because he needs to be able end fights with one punch or a combo.
Your finesse boxers who like to win rounds by picking spots and accumulating punches are going to end up getting taken down and pounded on.
But anyone with a stiff jab can/will dominate any division in MMA today. You add a good cross or hook and that guy is a champ.
Good takedown defense, and knockout power is the only thing needed to dominate an entire MMA weight class? Is this 2005?
It must be 2005. The boxing stance isn’t even transferable to MMA…. Not sure why an amateur boxer would have much success.
Mirko was able to come in from kickboxing and get to #2 hw in the entire world and his boxing wasn’t even that great. Someone who has to kick is always going to put himself in more disadvantageous positions than someone who can just end fights with his hands, because kicking opens you up to be taken down.
45 do you think only a stance is what you learn in years of boxing? Do you really think that if a boxer had to widen his stance a little bit he would lose all the ability to punch, move at angles, move his head, time punches, measure distance, etc that is only learned from years and years of boxing?
Jens Pulver became world champion with a decent wrestling background and the ability to box a bit/punch haahd; I believe his pro record was 4-0. Imagine what a guy like Cintron would do, someone who actually made it to the top of the heap in the fight sport with the biggest talent pool. Cintron was a top 10 Juco wrestler his first year of college before dropping out to box full-time, and got up to become a world champion boxer, one known for his power punching at that.
I am unable to conceive how someone can say with a straight face that someone who can actually box well and punch hard wouldn’t have a huge advantage when Leonard fucking Garcia is still in the UFC. He has literally no skills or technique at all, and he is fighting on the biggest stage in the sport. Does anyone really believe that Manny Pacquiao couldn’t be 1000x better at mma than Leonard Garcia in a year of training? Seriously? God, I thought mma had gotten past the point of blind fanboyism, perhaps I was mistaken.
To be fair David, your example used Manny Pacquiao, who is only the greatest boxer alive, while your argument was about “any good amateur boxer”.
Cain, Jones, GSP, Edgar, and Cruz all have great MMA wrestling. Those are 5 of the 7 champions. And Silva almost lost to Sonnen.
Wrestling is the best base for MMA. The results don’t lie. And yes I’m saying this with a straight face. Boxing means very little in MMA compared to wrestling and being able to take your opponent down at will.
This is true klown, but I am just giving the easiest example for the mma fans who don’t watch boxing at all to work with. If you accept that Manny Pacquiao would be a much better mma fighter than Leonard Garcia, then you are tacitly accepting that boxing ability, speed, punching power, footwork, head movement, ability to move at angles, technique, stamina, toughness, etc are more important than BIG SWINGS, and thus that any decent boxer who committed himself to mma could get good (I’m not saying anyone could be champion, but if Leonard Garcia can be a top 25 fighter at 145, then any decent boxer could too) at the sport.
It is better to be an elite level boxer than an elite level mma’er because mo money and mo opportunities. There is only 1 promoter in all of mma who pays well; there are many more than that in boxing. What was James Toney’s payday to fight in the UFC? 750k? I think that is a higher baseline salary than I can ever recall a UFC fighter getting. The upper crust of boxing get 6/7/8 figures for every fight, and given how much bigger boxing is, that upper crust contains many more fighters than the upper crust of mma.
Can anyone please identify for me a single skill that Leonard Garcia possesses? I literally have no idea. I know he walks forward, which to 97% of mma fans means he is teh aggressive and teh winner, but he has no punching technique, limited stamina, no defense, and I’ve never even seen him take anyone down.
45 your post didn’t respond to anything I said. How many world class boxers are there in mma? Once you answer that (hint: 0 is the answer) you will see how silly your rebuttal is. Further the guys you mentioned are all very good boxers by mma standards and use their strikes to win fights.
To be fair this all pertained to Leonard Garcia in the beginning so there is really no arguing against that. The one asset he has (good BJJ) never even gets used.
But boxers who are good at boxing wouldn’t necessarily be good MMA fighters. Manny Paquiao is the best boxer in the world right now (because I wouldn’t even classify Mayweather as a boxer anymore), but he could possible suck at MMA. He leaps in with combos, lets himself be bullied into corners and the ropes, and he fights at a weight class he can barely make. Even if Manny had “good” takedown defense he wouldn’t be able stop takedowns of guys like Mendes, Hioki, and Cruz. Hell takedowns aside, no one knows how he would be able to judge distance when he has a guy like Aldo throwing leg kicks at him.
It’s been proven that great boxing (or striking) in mma paired with good tdd gets you far, but it’s not gonna make you a champion this day and age.
Mirko was #2 in the world 5 years ago now (and he never should have been, Nog beat him). Leonard Garcia is a borderline top 20 FW. Neither guy is proof for/against elite boxers being effective in MMA today.
Wasn’t this hypothetical average/mediocre boxer named Marcus Davis?
Your original point was about amateur boxer dominating MMa. Now you have switched it to a world class boxer.
David Haye, who was the former Cruiserweight World Champion has said that a short time of grappling takes away a Loy of punching power. Other fighters, like Rufus…. Has said that a lot of kickboxing technique can’t be used because of the threat of the takedown. And guys like Marcus Davis have said that a lot of bobbing and weaving and foot stances are useless because of kicks.
Basically all fighters know this. The ThREAT of a kick or takedown takes away so many if a boxers tools. This is why you don’t see strikers dominating thesport. Sure the champions of MMA are good strikers…. But it is there ability to take opponents down that makes them champions.
It’s why Rua couldn’t throw leg kicks against Jones. It’s why Cruz has opponents so off balance in striking. It’s why GSP has opponents being afraid to plant their feet to throw a single strike. It’s the wrestling…. And more importantly the timing of takedowns to strikes that makes these guys so great. It’s something you can’t teach boxers with a year of sprawling training. You can’t sprawl when you throw a punch like a boxer and have all you weight planted on the ground…. Allowing a wrestler to lower twit level and have a takedown so easily.
Gaijin: Marcus Davis got to top 10 in the world at 170 despite crossing over to mma at the age of 30 and never being a pro boxer of note (he never beat anyone with double digit wins).
Mentioning Crocop’s achievements is almost hilarious.
Yes, Crocop was great… in 2005. In the heavyweight division – which is still such a ridiculously weak division in 2011.
Kickboxing is actually a better base than boxing, since you can already check and throw kicks. Mirko’s left high kick sure got him in many disadvantageous positions, right? 😉
From 155-265 all the top guys are now great at everything. GSP is a fantastic wrestler, BJJ black belt and a great striker. I don’t need to say much about Jon Jones. The same with Velasquez, Silva and Edgar.
The featherweight and bantamweight divisions are a bit weak, but that will change now that there’s more places for them to fight.
FWIW too, Leonard Garcia has dropped to 96th in Fight magazines computerized ranking ladder.
That’s with a bunch of gift decisions. Without those he’d probably be somewhere south of 120th.
Without some pretty suspect judging, he should probably be 0-8 since 2009…that’s just not someone that should be taking up main card space in the UFC in the current climate. Sure he’s “exciting” and will brawl it up but he belongs as a headliner for Titan FC, TPC and MFC at this stage.
The fact that Leonard Garcia is still in the UFC is the best proof that MMA judging is in dire need of a complete overhaul.
Phil Davis beats Antonio Rogerio Nogueira. If 2010 Nogueira should have lost a fight to Brilz…. Then 2011 Nogueira is going to get wrecked against Davis. I just hope they don’t push Davis too quickly into title shot zone. I think he can be a true force in the division in the future, but needs a slightly longer learning curve then the one Jon Jones got.
Rest of my picks: Hardy, Sadollah, Garcia, Caceres, Madsen, Hathaway, McDonald, Morecraft, Hendricks, & Simpson.
5 Fights being shown on Facebook. I bet at least 3 guys get cut from this card.
Well he “should” have won against Bader, so…meh…regardless, we know how these moronic judges score fights so I see Davis winning a decision, though most likely a deserved one, with Lil Nog trying to sink in a few unsuccessful guillotines per round.
Rumble, Sadollah (an opponent with 10 days notice doesn’t hurt), Zombie, Mackens, Russow, Hathaway, McDonald, McCorkle, Hendricks & Simpson (when in doubt go with the wrestler).
I had Bader winning that fight.
Same here. Not sure how Nog won any way you look at it. It was pretty much a wash standing, but Bader had takedowns and top position, which breaks a tie.
There was no “should have” in that fight. Bader very clearly won the fight with Nog. When you can’t stop a takedown you lose fights.
Big list:
Phil beats Nogueira- Just look at what 45 said above. I don’t believe Davis will ever reach Jones in ability, but this new breed of wrestlers entering MMA is starting to crush the old guard who never had that great of takedown defense.
Hardy beats Johnson after he gasses- This is a 50-50 fight for me. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if Johnson stops him early, but I lean towards Hardy weathering the storm and tiring AJ out with some clinch work. If Johnson puts Hardy on his back I still think he’ll gas. Hardy by 3rd tko or dec.
Sadollah beats guys with subpar wrestling (and a few good ones with some luck). Simple.
Chan Sung Jung should win this fight, but I think fate throws a wrench in and Garcia catches him with a winging haymaker. Garcia by TKO.
Semerzier is better than Caceres. He should be able to get the sub.
Michael Mcdonald is gona be good. He’ll get the TKO or sub.
The rest are mehh so Morecraft, Madsen, Hathaway, Hendricks, and Simpson.
I predict that I’ll forget to watch.
For the main card, I’ve got Davis by UD, AJ by TKO, Sadallah by UD, and Garcia by wrong decision.
Predictions…
?Middleweights: Mario Miranda vs. Aaron Simpson-
Aaron Simpson via TKO 2’nd round.
?Welterweights: Johny Hendricks vs. TJ Waldburger-
Johny Hendricks via decision.
?Heavyweights: Sean McCorkle vs. Christian Morecraft-
Morecraft via TKO 1’st round.
?Bantamweights: Michael McDonald vs. Edwin Figueroa-
Michael McDonald via decision.
?Welterweights: John Hathaway vs. Kris McCray-
Hathaway via sub 2’nd round.
?Heavyweights: Jon Madsen vs. Mike Russow-
Madson via KO 1’st round.
?Featherweights: Alex Caceres vs. Mackens Semerzier
Semerzier via sub 3’rd round.
Main card-
?Featherweights: Leonard Garcia vs. The Korean Zombie-
Garcia via decision.
?Welterweights: Amir Sadollah vs. DaMarques Johnson-
Amir via TKO 3’rd round.
?Welterweights: Dan Hardy vs. Anthony Johnson-
Hardy via decision.
?Light Heavyweights: Antonio Rogerio Nogueira vs. Phil Davis- Davis via TKO 3’rd round.
I expect to see Davis dominate Nogueira who should be 0-2 in his last 2 UFC fights, unless he makes a silly mistake this is his fight to lose.
“A boxer with pop if he can avoid takedowns will dominate any MMA weight class.”
The champions of lightweight, welterweight, lightheavyweight, and heavyweight have been taking down guys that have been wrestling since the age of five, but obviously a boxer with pop could avoid takedowns with six months of sprawl work.
Yea, that must be why Fujita and Coleman and Barnett and Randleman and Waterman and all the other high-level wrestlers had so much success taking Mirko down..Oh wait.
What prime Mirko had, that Jon Jones and GSP and Aldo and Anderson have, is speed and reflexes. They are able to avoid takedowns/anything else just because they are faster and have better reflexes than their opponents.
Boxing is a sport entirely based on speed/reflexes, and as the purses get bigger in mma and the sport gains more acceptance amongst black people, more boxers will cross over and you will see the difference between trying to close the gap on someone who has no footwork and limited boxing technique, and a guy who, like your wrestling example, has been punching/moving since he was a little kid, and is much faster than anything the wrestler is used to.
When people compare mma and boxing, I often think back to Dana White’s training for his boxing match with Tito Ortiz. I will never forget until the day I die that Dana was sparring with Alex Karalexis and whooping his ass, and then sparring with a really athletic college boxer and getting absolutely massacred. Dana White, at whatever age he is, was boxing the ears off a professional fighter who has even been in the UFC. Think about that. The level of striking in mma is appalling, and not because of all the varied techniques one needs to learn to get good at the sport, but just because a lot of these guys aren’t particularly good athletes.
Dude that stuff was over 5 years ago. MMA has changed. It’s not a hard concept to understand.
“Boxing is a sport entirely based on speed/reflexes”
You could break this comment down, and prove it for every sport on earth (except golf). But it’s simply not true. EX: Speed and reflexes made Pacman good; judging distance, combination punching, learning defense, and upping his conditioning level has made him the best in boxing.
Ok I was obviously oversimplifying, but the truth is, as you well know, that boxing gets more guys with great speed/explosive athleticism than mma gets. There is a reason GSP, Aldo, Silva, Jones, are so dominant: they are more athletic than everyone else. Once you get to a certain point, all these guys are very sound technically, it just comes down to physical capabilities, and that is where someone like Jon Jones is going to excel and guys who aren’t world class athletes aren’t. Hopefully that is the direction the sport is heading in.
Ah, I can agree with that.
I might be able to finally cancel cable.
This event is available for purchase on UFC.tv for $10. That’s awesome. If they do this for every SpikeTV event, I really don’t need cable anymore. It’s cheaper to pay for the events a la carte instead of buying cable. I can purchase the PPV’s online. I would just get Hulu Plus for Network TV, MLB.tv for baseball….. And goodbye cable!!
This is great. This is the first time I have seen them doing this for a non-PPV event.
…unless you live in Canada where they’re talking about allow the telcos to apply “usage based billing”, which is basically their way of cutting off competition from online video providers who would make the ridiculously bloated cable packages obsolete.
Ahh another thing I don’t miss!
OH, CANADA!!!!!!!!!!!…. Such nice people in that country…. With such a weird government.
AT&T put on a 250 Gig cap on their internet for Uverse. And if you go over it a few months in a row, you get a $10 charge for every 50 gigs over. Which really isn’t that bad. And they say it would only effect 2% of their customer base.
I wonder if this will become the norm in America….
So far people really haven’t been cutting the cable cord. Sports is a major reason for this.
But as more and more sports are available online…. The need for cable really is gone. Just buy everything a la carte. Of the other big ones are HBO and Showtime. It really will only take a few big entities like HBO and the NFL to make cable either completely crumble or change enough that they don’t charge so much.
E-mail me and I’ll give you some pointers on, should you cancel your cable, where to get some legal alternatives to add onto what your current idea/plan is for watching programming.
Very disapointed in Davis, Brilz and Bader both looked better against Nog. The fact that he had so much trouble with Nog shows that he didn’t do his homework, his cardio needs work and he’s not even close to being in title contention.
He would beat Rampage, Rua, and Griffin if they were his next fights. And those guys are all Top 6 in the division. He would struggle with Machida’s style, Evans, and Jones right now. But a few more fights and he will be there.
Don’t forget that Jones couldn’t even finish Bonnar less then 2 years ago and looked exhausted by the end of the fight.
Davis has the wrestling, athleticism, drive to be near the top of the division.
You’re dreaming all of those guys would smash him, Davis is not ready for a top guy not after what I saw tonight. His stand up aside from some kicks was green, his cardio was disapointing and he was getting stuffed left and right by a guy with horrible takedowns. He’s several years away from even being in discussion for a title shot and don’t be surprised if he gets Bonnar next. And honestly right now i’d pick Bonnar to beat him, Davis needs to join a better camp and work on all his weaknesses.
I agree with most of what EJ says here.
Bonnar has never been finished by anything other than a cut, so Bones not finishing him isn’t that big of a deal (especially when you take into account the list of guys he’s finished since).
IMO he would struggle with every guy you named of people he would beat 45.
I know Mr. Wonderful is your boy and you’re “been there since the beginning” touting this guy, but I think that’s a bit optimistic in the here and now.
I think he’s going to develop into a great LHW and in time he will be able to take out those guys, but right now, I don’t think so…let’s just let him develop at a good pace – this was a solid test for him and it showed he’s got heart and that he needs to work on some areas of his game before he steps up against the current elite 205ers…no shame in that…but it’s unfair for people to expect him to be the next Jon Jones, at least in terms of getting there that fast.
Fun night of fights. Phil Davis looked a little flat but showed exactly what made him a NCAA Champion…. HEART. He gutted that one out. And he was smart enough to switch from the double (which Nogueira’s hips were too good for) to a single (which Nogueira couldn’t handle the turns). The guy could beat Rua, Rampage, and Griffin right now. Probably needs a few more fights before he matches up better with Machida or Evans.
The old PRIDE guard isn’t doing so well against the current crop of fighters. The new breed is bigger, more athletic, better wrestlers, and really just a higher end version. Nogueira is now 2-2 in the UFC, and really should be 1-3. He showed absolutely nothing tonight except a really good double leg takedown defense.
Well, it’s been fun guys. I’m taking a break from MMA for a little bit. There really isn’t much going on in the sport for the next month outside of Diaz/Daley card, which I will probably start to follow the night of the event. I need a little off season to the sport, and now seems like the best time with such a slow schedule….. Be back for the Stadium show of GSP/Shields which should be a super event.
I was screaming at the TV in the first round for him to switch to a single. When he made the switch it changed the whole fight.
Random question for all: What did you score the first round of the Nog-Davis fight. I had it for Nog personally, but most places online score it for Davis or 10-10. I just want get everyone’s thoughts on the subject.
I scored it 10-10.
Could have gone either way…Nog scored with headshots…Davis landed more body kicks and strikes overall…I had it 10-10
10-9 Nog. Easy. Getting all your takedowns attempts stuffed, equals octagon control for your opponent. Plus Nog landed the harder/better shots.
Still a 29-28 Davis fight, and like I said, we know how judges score these fights – it should be no surprise. Three fights in a row a wrestler gets outstruck (Brilz probably had the most success), struggles for takedowns and does very little with their top position (Davis’ 2nd round was the most successful)…Twice they won, once they lost a razor close one.
I think Joe Silva hates Lil Nog, or its just a weird continuation of trying to “prove” the UFC was “better” than PRIDE fighters by having their 2010 stars beat their 2005 stars, because no other fighter has been continually thrown in against the same type of kryptonite fights three times in a row.
Then I remember they were going to give him Tito initially who I think he would have nuked, b/c Tito’s takedowns are horrendous these days with his f’d back and shot knees and his stand-up is begging for a TKO by a really good boxer like Nog.
“no other fighter has been continually thrown in against the same type of kryptonite fights three times in a row”
To be fair, Brilz was supposed to be a layup for Nog and Davis was a late replacement for Tito. I’m sure Joe Silva figured Rogerio would walk through those two guys. Bader was the only one who looked like a competitive fight on paper.
Yes true enough, Brilz was certainly a heavy underdog. I guess it’s much easier to make my earlier statement in retrospect…and I noted the Davis for Tito last minute sub, but they could have easily given him someone that wasn’t a top level wrestler, no? I mean, we all knew he had horrible wrestling when we say Shogun (!!!) put on a wrestling clinic against him.
End of the day, I think it makes more sense to not protect a guy like Nog who isn’t going to be in the top 5-10 for much longer and give the rub to someone like Davis while you can. And if Davis can’t beat him, well then you know where he is in his stage of development.
\”The old PRIDE guard isn’t doing so well against the current crop of fighters. The new breed is bigger, more athletic, better wrestlers, and really just a higher end version. Nogueira is now 2-2 in the UFC, and really should be 1-3. He showed absolutely nothing tonight except a really good double leg takedown defense.\”
Should this be any type of surprise? I know a certain type of fan clings to this as some sign of “winning” or whatever in their universe, but do you expect guys that were on top of the heap from 2002-2006 to be on top 6-10 years later? Not sure what this “proves” in the grand scheme of things other than fighters don\’t continue to rule a division 10 years later.
I can’t believe anyone scored the first round for Davis. What a fucking joke. If someone is trying to get a takedown over and over, it is admitting that he is losing/scared of the standup. Further, stuffing takedowns displays octagon control. If judges just assume whoever is diving at naother man’s legs = automatic winner, then this sport is screwed. I had the third round a draw, but that is mostly because I value someone getting off the ground and disengaging from the wrestler as much I value a takedown, and more than I value an attempted takedown, which apparently was the key to Davis’ win in the first round in the eyes of the idiot judges.
Davis did literally no damage in the third round and got kicked off of Nog one of the two times he took him down. He also got stuffed on a takedown attempt in the third. Neither man did any damage and Davis stalled on the ground. I realize most people probably gave Davis the third because they associate being on top and doing no damage with winning, but I don’t.
I only watched that fight and Johnson v Hardy; that fight was no surprise. AJ talked a lot about how he was going to stand and bang, but that isn’t who he is. He is a great wrestler and a great athlete, and showed much improved cardio. I have no idea if he is going to stay at 170 or go to 185, but if he stays at 170, he would prove GSP’s staunchest test given his size, wrestling, and athleticism. GSP would win because he is a better fighter, better boxer, more well rounded, a better strategist, has better cardio, better speed, etc., but until GSP breaks AJ’s will in the 2nd or third, it will be a fun fight.
This is the EXACT reason I felt he deserved the win against Brilz and Bader.
Unfortunately every judge seems to “score” top position of any kind, regardless of the rest of the happenings in the round as “winning”. TDD is showing superior octagon control/ring generalship and if a takedown is equated to “scoring point” then I don’t understand how a sweep or getting back up isn’t scored reciprocally.
The only way a take down attempt should be scored is if it works. A take down defense should neutralize a take down attempt and, even give the defender something.
Defense should never score points. Defense scores in that it prevents the opponent’s offense from scoring points. If defense gains points both for itself and for preventing offense, then defense is being double-counted and nobody would bother attempting offense.
Actually I didn’t articulate that well, so let me give a different example:
If you assume that defense scores points, lets imagine the following scenario:
Fighter A punches his opponent twice in the face and gets a single takedown.
Fighter B does not punch his opponent, does not hurt his opponent in any way, does not threaten his opponent in any way, but defends some number of takedowns.
By your argument, there is some number of takedowns defended that would make Fighter B the winner, even though he did absolutely nothing to threaten Fighter A. That is simply ridiculous.
Michael do you think a takedown leading to 0 offense should be scored? I have seen far too many rounds “won” by guys who just got a takedown and did nothing on top. If that is scored as a winning round, then obviously someone who stops all the takedowns attempted by his scared-shitless-to-strike opponent should be counted as octagon control as well. Nog clearly landed way more strikes in the first round as well, so your example doesn’t really match up because Nog didn’t just stand up and do nothing. However, in my opinion, if judges are going to score a takedown and lay and pray as a winning round, then takedowns defended should similarly be scored.
David – I have no idea why you want takedown defense to be scored other than it must mean the other guy is scared to strike? Sorry that’s silly.
A round with takedown from Fighter A vs nothing from fighter B is obviously scored (narrowly) for Fighter A.
It’s a draw imo if Fighter A takes Fighter B down and does nothing for four minutes, then gets stood up for the final with Fighter B landing 5-10 decent strikes.
Top control itself doesn’t score anything in my book. A takedown will score. A transition will score. Weak piddling shots in the guard will score extremely poorly.
David, there are plenty of reasons to think that being on the ground is inherently a disadvantageous position for the guy on bottom. Thats not true for a standing position: its inherently an even position, and the only difference depends on the actual talent and skills of the fighters, and what they do with it.
Also, several observers, include Fightmetric, think you’re wrong that Nog scored more. Why are you bringing that up anyway? I don’t have an opinion on scoring the first round of the Nog/Davis fight. I just think that scoring takedown defense is incredibly stupid, which I think 99% of people would agree with.
It’s not ridiculous, maybe not workable. If you keep attempting tackles and, they aren’t effective, then you should get nothing, or only a benefit at the end if their is a tie. If anything, it should neutralize any points the attempt gets. Tackle attempts vs. effective defense, 0 points for both.
Based on what I remember, the first two rounds were a tie and, the last was for Davis. I guess Davis gets it, but it’s not as quality of a win, compared to knock outs, or submissions, or a total positional dominance.
Maybe points for knockout, submissions, less for a total dominance and, even less for a close judges decision.
Fightmetric said that Lil Nog landed 16 strikes in the full fight compared to Davis who had 72, Davis landed 42 significant strikes compared to Lil Nog’s 8.
The anti wrestling bias is strong in some people but Davis won the fight everywhere, especially in the second and third round.
expecting someone to finish little nogueira is pretty out there to begin with let alone a guy with 8 fights total who stepped in on short notice and has never faced a proven world class fighter like little nogueira before
since it’s the implied comparison in any discussion like this, around his 7th or 8th fight I forget Jones gassed out and lost the last round on every judge’s scorecard to Stephan Bonnar, so even if you’re using the incredibly high standard of a one-of-a-kind talent like Jones as a measuring stick for a fighter’s progress I think you have to admit Phil Davis is doing well. Nog is a good boxer and slick jiu jitsu practitioner with a great chin and great cardio just like Bonnar, except he’s more talented at finding and exploiting defensive holes, and Davis made it through a fight with him without getting hurt and without gassing out.
Additionally, Nog’s wrestling is obviously improving rapidly, maybe relating to training with Mark Munoz regularly, I don’t know that’s just speculation, as he was able to stop Bader’s takedowns, who we all know is a solid and exceptionally well-credentialed wrestler.
Phil Davis put on a good performance by any reasonable standard