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« | Home | »

Latest on Strikeforce in April: Nobody knows anything about anything

By Zach Arnold | February 22, 2011

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In other words, nothing’s really changed from yesterday except that there’s more discussion about communication chaos. So, now we’re in a process of elimination here to figure out what’s going on.

Josh Gross:

Tim Lueckenhoff, exec. dir. Missouri office of Athletics, just emailed that Strikeforce hasn’t approached him re: promoting there in April.

And George Dodd, CSAC exec. officer, just emailed saying he has not been approached by Strikeforce either.

So, by that measure, California and Missouri off the table. Right?

Robert Sargent (the man who first reported that SF’s plans for Japan in April fell apart):

Note regarding the planned Strikeforce event in California on April 9th: Both the HP Pavilion and Staples Center are reportedly booked.

It sounds like the Honda Center in Anaheim or the Oracle Arena in Oakland would therefore be the most likely possibilities for venue.

So now we’re back to Sherdog’s report about a California show happening on 4/9 with Nick Diaz/Paul Daley and Gilbert Melendez/Crusher Kawajiri.

Jordan Breen:

Heard the Oracle in Oakland is most likely.

So, now it’s Oakland. But wait, there’s more. MMA Junkie:

Just got off phone with Coker, who said he’ll have an answer for me on this April switch in short time. Doesn’t know where rumors started.

He’s dealing with all this and a nasty sinus infection/cold.

To top it all off, as noted in our comments section today, there’s discussion of Strikeforce wanting to get a big HW GP show on CBS.

Topics: Media, MMA, StrikeForce, Zach Arnold | 31 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |

31 Responses to “Latest on Strikeforce in April: Nobody knows anything about anything”

  1. Mr. Roadblock says:

    Maybe they’re going back to the Playboy Mansion?

  2. manapua says:

    I think Dana will be adding strikeforce to his tombstone trophy in the not so distant future

  3. 45 Huddle says:

    1) The CBS rumor was started by Dave Meltzer. According to people who actually listened to his radio show, he was purely speculating. He has no inside info. He was just saying it could potentially be one of the reasons for the delay. But it’s not off of any sources.

    2) Didn’t Coker get mad at Helwani for asking him about the April date a few weeks back? Perhaps he was already running into problems and Ariel hit a nerve with him?

    3) The fact that Coker is going to address the rumors instead of just coming out and stating that it’s a complete lie means there is truth to what Sherdog reported.

    Money problems? Typically when events start getting delayed like this it can sometimes mean money issues. WCW had huge ratings and attendance numbers when they went belly up. ECW was still having solid crowds when they went out of business. Affliction was getting around 100,000 PPV buys and they couldn’t last.

    Just because the ratings are up, doesn’t means Strikeforce has their act together in the back office. Almost anybody can find some success in a business. But SUSTAINED SUCCESS comes from properly running a business. Something we see Coker having a hard time doing. Notice how every 6 months or so he has to delay things in order to catch up. It’s because they are under staffed and aren’t willing to pay the money to make that change.

    These are not good signs….

    • The Gaijin says:

      “Money problems? Typically when events start getting delayed like this it can sometimes mean money issues. WCW had huge ratings and attendance numbers when they went belly up. ECW was still having solid crowds when they went out of business. Affliction was getting around 100,000 PPV buys and they couldn’t last.”

      These are either some very poorly understood talking points or grossly intentional misrepresentations. Given your track record and that you continually attempt to spin what you can in order to prop up your own worldview, it is likely just the latter.

      1. WCW had absolutely HORRIFIC ratings, ppv buyrates and attendance at the end of their run. Not only did they have those points going in their favour, but they also had a legacy of misspending and waste that would made Affliction look like Ebenezer Scrooge – I believe they lost something insane like $65M in their last 12-18 months of business. The other big hit against them was the AOL/Time Warner merger – wrestling was Ted Turner’s baby and following the merger the new company openly stated they would not support wrestling on their networks in any way, shape or form…a big reason they were successful in the first place was Turner’s willingness to open up the vault for them.

      2. ECW? Really? You’re using ECW as an example? Solid crowds of 1500 people at bingo halls in Philly and New York? I’m no authority on wrestling but from EVERYTHING I’ve read, this company was a total scam with Heyman stiffing wrestlers, productions companies and anyone else they ever dealt with – they were basicaly run by a guy who “knew the business (of wrestling)” but knew nothing of running a business. Also, they had a “national tv deal” with TNN and then got blacked out of their deal by TNN (who’d signed WWE) and were unable to negotiate a TV deal of any sort which apparently expedited their bankruptcy (given that they had ~$10M in liabilities and $1M in assets, its hard to believe this was a stable company in any shape or form).

      3. Affliction had no tv deal and tried to leap into PPV promotion by spending vast quantities of money – the definition of money marks. While they were getting 100k ppv buys they were paying the Ben Rothwell’s of the world $300k per fight and guys like Tim Sylvia and Arlovski $800k per fight.

      You’ve cherry picked three extreme examples of promotional companies that went under with little in common or applicable to the situation here…how these help your argument, if you’re willing to spend 30 seconds thinking about them is beyond me.

      • 45 Huddle says:

        All 3 companies are examples of companies having success at one point but their business foundation was too poor to sustain it.

        WCW’s management was their downfall. So was ECW’s and Afflictions.

        ECW was getting crowds if 5,000 and doing TNA level ratings when they went out of business.

        The entire point of bringing up those 3 companies is….. All 3 ha success. But all 3, even during their peak, showed visual signs of problems to fans. It’s exactly what we are seeing with Coker and Strikeforce. It’s why every 6 months something goes wrong and there are delays. It’s why the entire first round didn’t happen on one card. It’s why fighters continue to complain about nit getting booked fast enough or even getting a response back. It’s the same type of general signs we saw from my 3 examples….

        • Nottheface says:

          What we are seeing is visibile signs of their austerity. All the things that us fans complain about – not airing prelims, booking local fighters to the prelims, using Showtime’s production, lack of advertising, co-promoting and not having exclusive fighter rights, and even the last minute booking of fighters – are the very reasons that they are apparently making money according to several reporters that have looked into it.

        • The Gaijin says:

          Affliction never made $1 promoting MMA. NEVER. Not $1. They never showed ANY signs of success nor any coherent business plans…only rampant abilities to flush money down the toilet while burning the rest of it to stay warm.

          WCW was the Affliction of pro wrestling, except for the fact that they were smart enough to steal some of the biggest drawing cards in the business and spent enough money that it was bound to find success, albeit for a limited amount of time. WCW also hemorrhaged money for almost 90% of their existence, and only stayed in business because they had the biggest sugar daddy of all time.

          ECW was ECW. They were hamstrung by a “national tv deal” on a network that for all intents and purposes “cancelled” them but held them off TV, but for syndicated tv shows that continued to run for months and I’m confident would not have hit “TNA-level” ratings (another company of money marks that from what I’ve seen is a tax shelter).

          Strikeforce for all it’s warts is run by a person that knows the promoting business, doesn’t overextend itself and spends smartly and within its mean, has steady revenue streams and a business partner that is supporting them and carrying production costs, and is increasing its exposure and fanbase at a good clip. Basically nothing like above three companies.

        • 45 Huddle says:

          Having to take 2 month breaks or push back shows is basically the definition of over extending.

        • Alexander Francisco Mogue says:

          Ugh, no Huddle. WCW’s downfall was the merger. The guy they put in charge did not like wrestling whatsoever and wanted to focus on legit sports like College Football, Basketball and Baseball on TBS and TNT. Turner was funneling money in and was cut off once the merger happened. At that point, WCW was losing the ratings war and the crowds were severely dwindling not just because of the management, but because of the contracts and budget cuts.

          ECW one was a bad analogy. They drew 5,000 maybe a handful of times. I went to ECW shows at the end when they decided to expand out in the south. And their houseshows drew about 200 to 300 people. Even on the East Coast they barely drew 1200. Ridiculous story you are telling Huddle.

    • Wolverine says:

      According to Greg Savage Strikeforce lost money only on one show in 2010. I seriously doubt they have any financial problems. Showtime pays them really well and they’re tight with the expenses.

      • 45 Huddle says:

        Companies who lose money do not tell others about it. And often lie about it.

        “Hey, come watch our product even though we can’t make a profit.”. Yeah, that will sell well….

        They could easily be event cost positive but overall net income negative. All has to do with their fixed costs.b underwriting can be done in many different ways. It’s how they allocate their fixed costs before telling people they made a profit for most shows.

        All of these delays don’t give the presentation that they are making money.

        Keep in mind people thought the UFC was making money and they were $40 Million in the hole. Unless Greg Savage saw their financials I call BS on that one….
        Keep

        • No one thought the UFC was making money before TUF. Most everyone had been expecting from UFC 42 on that Dana White was gonna get fired.

        • smoogy says:

          The same UFC that doesn’t publicize peak ratings, right?

        • The Gaijin says:

          “The same UFC that doesn’t publicize peak ratings, right?”

          Yeah that one, only companies that are embarrassed about their numbers do peak ratings. No one else would do such a stupid thing. EVER.

  4. BillR says:

    Coker is scheduled to be on the “Feijao vs. Henderson” conference call this afternoon. I’m sure he will field at least a few questions regarding the proposed April event, so we should get some answers today.

    • Steve4192 says:

      LOL

      So much for that theory.

      Coker skipped the press conference and his stand-in informed the media that they would only take questions related to the Feijao-Hendo card.

  5. Joe says:

    Strikeforce has many problems, but financial viability is not one of them (at least, as long as they’re still on Showtime). My guess is that Coker thought a Japan show was a done deal, but then it fell through so now he has to scramble.

  6. 45 Huddle says:

    The sport continues to consolidate…. Marlon Sandro signed with Bellator. Not a huge shock that the UFC didn’t pick him up since he said he would not fight Aldo. To he honest, I’m still surprised the UFC signed Santiago. I was certain he was SF bound.

    According to Josh Gross, if a fighter is asking for his release from Sengoku they are getting it. And Hatsu Hioki prefers to sign with the UFC if he has a chance.

    So who’s left from Sengoku besides Hioki? Perhaps a few of their lighter fighters but that’s about it.

    Basically all of the DREAM guys are likely to end up in SF. Kawajiri is fighting for the title and I’m sure Aoki will make his way over.

    Down to 3.1 organizations right now. The .1 because DREAM hasn’t officially released their fighters yet but it’s only a matter of time. They continue to push back their “comeback” date….

    • Steve4192 says:

      “So who’s left from Sengoku besides Hioki?”

      Maximo Blanco
      Mahmed Khalidov
      Jadamba Narantungalag
      Won Sik Park

      Are all guys would like to see stateside

      Alexandre Ribeiro
      Stanislav Nedkov
      Blagoi Ivanov

      Not sure of these guys status (I think Nedkov already has a UFC deal), but I wouldn’t mind seeing them cross the pond either.

      • 45 Huddle says:

        So basically a few nice to haves with no real have to haves besides Hioki. Oh, perhaps Kazuo Misaki will come over, but if he can’t beat Santiago twice, he is likely to look like Akiyama has….

        Well, that’s the end of Sengoku then….

        Even with DREAM, I’m trying to think of who already hasn’t fought in Strikeforce in the last year, and there isn’t much. All of their champions have fought for SF in the last year.

        Bellator will have to find a new station at some point or be gone. MTV never keeps shows very long. They have a high turnover rate due to the demographic yet typically try and go after. Nothing is sacred on that channel.

      • Wolverine says:

        Khalidov finished his 3-fight deal with Sengoku in December

  7. frankp316 says:

    Money is not the problem. The problem is Coker has a bad habit of putting all his eggs in one basket and when the eggs turn rotten, he’s screwed. He was so sure that he could do a show in Japan that he didn’t have a viable alternative if it didn’t work out. The end result we are seeing was entirely predictable to anyone except Scott Coker especially to those of us who are knowledgeable about the Japanese fight business. One would think he would learn from these mistakes but he doesn’t.

  8. 45 Huddle says:

    Strikeforce Challenger show from Friday did 200,000 viewers. Which is below the middle line for viewers for that show since the start of 2010.

    Which means if SF has momentum, it’s certainly not showing up in the challenger ratings.

    The interesting one will be te Henderson card coming up. If it gets higher then expected ratings, then SF is at least showing momentum on their championship level cards. If it doesn’t, they basically show they can get good ratings with freakshows and Fedor cards. Which is bad because Fedor is on the decline and freakshow ratings never last….

    Should be interesting….. Henderson will have to prove his value….

  9. cutch says:

    – Scott Coker is sick and will not be on the call. He is rumored to be better ‘next week.’
    – John Beyrooty announces that there are no announcements re future shows. Asks media to keep questions to the Mar 5 show.

    from the conference call

  10. A. Taveras says:

    Nobody knows anything about anything, but that won’t stop anyone from weighing in on the topic!

    I’ve seen it stated here often that Strikeforce is a very small shop. The key man in the shop is sick. Sounds like in his absence a show isn’t coming together, because it literally can’t without his key participation. I think speculation abt the implication of this on the rise and fall of Strikefore is a bit premature.

    • IceMuncher says:

      It’s not an isolated incident. Strikeforce gives the impression that they’re in a state of perpetual last-minute scrambling. That’s not a sign of a healthy company. Your theory, that the company is completely hamstrung because one guy is missing, is also not a healthy sign.

      • 45 Huddle says:

        The term in business is “Contingency Plan”.

        If a key member of the company either gets sick or dies, what is the business plan to continue day to day operations. Not to mention what happens to the shares of the company if an owner dies.

        You typically don’t see this being a big deal with public companies. Perhaps Apple is the best example of one persons vision effecting the company so much. But they have key employees in place to handle it.

        It’s more common of an issue in small business. A lot of times the son will take over the company. Or the CFO. But other times the owner is the real key to success and his passing wouldn’t allow for a good contingency plan to be implemented.

        Let’s put it this way…. If Coker were to die tomorrow (and I do not wish that upon him)….. How quickly would the company go up in smoke? Probably instantly. If Dana White died tomorrow, the UFC would be at a loss, but still have no problem functioning properly. Because they are likely to have a strong confidence plan in place.

  11. ECWCock says:

    As an UFC nuthugger myself, I enjoy and second most all of 45 Huddle’s comments.

  12. The Gaijin says:

    That savvy Scott Coker – it’s the weekend of UFC 127 and all anyone can talk about is Strikeforce!

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