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Fedor vs. Werdum II all but a certainty
By Zach Arnold | June 30, 2010
- Beau Dure: Tale of two losses — How USA, Fedor must move on
- Dave Meltzer: Just OK ratings for Fedor/Werdum on Showtime
With news breaking that Alistair Overeem has read the tea leaves in Strikeforce and has reportedly accepted a booking in DREAM against Ricco Rodriguez, it’s all but a formality now that we will get a rematch between Fedor and Fabricio Werdum. (An update on Overeem and DREAM here.)
The news about Overeem taking the booking against Ricco broke right as I finished this brand new column over at MMA Torch talking about all the problems Strikeforce & Showtime have and how the Fedor situation is a perfect reflection of all of their major faults.
STRIKEFORCE AND SHOWTIME — THE GANG THAT CAN’T SHOOT STRAIGHT
I want all of you to read the Torch article. (And not just 30 of you. The least you can do is read the column.)
The column hit the word count limit, so I kept out a 2-minute transcript passage from Sherdog radio on Monday that amplifies all of the chaos going on right now in the organization.
So, here’s the passage…
LUTFI SARIAHMED: “So, I think there are always these mitigating circumstances for not just (Cung) Le but really for fighters across the board. For whatever reason and it’s just… it you’re Scott Coker, how do you not pull, start pulling at your scalp now because obviously the man has no hair. Just because of nothing that you’re really trying to do is going to plans right now, coming into fruition, not really, nothing is really actually happening and it’s just disappointing more than anything because I think you’ll find 8 Middleweights to put together for this tournament but it’s not going to be the 8 Middleweights that going’s to make it as captivating as it could be, which is just sad and just kind of speaks to a bigger point that Strikeforce is just having with matchmaking and planning and just in general coming up with future ideas for their cards.”
JACK ENCARNACAO: “I think it also speaks to the strengths of the UFC model that you know we only tend to see the downside of it or pay attention to the downside of. I mean you talk about how this is a problem for fighters across the board — true, but I mean, maybe once a year a Rampage (Jackson) will do something that will disrupt the schedule? Other than that, really, nothing, I mean there’s a firm control over who’s going to be able to fight and when, barring injuries or things coming out of fights you can pretty much put your schedule together and execute it based on how the UFC contracts are written, based on the conditions of the marketplace and guys you know not willing to be due to fear of lawsuits or be of fear of anything like they used to just leave the UFC for PRIDE or K-1 if they don’t like what they see or hear. And so, you just get this situation, it’s a Strikeforce-specific ailment right now where guys just don’t want, are just never seeming interested. Their biggest names, their most intriguing names don’t seem interested in following whatever plan Strikeforce and/or Showtime comes up with them in terms of what’s next, who they fight next, what it’s all building towards. They’ve got guys who just never stick to one weight class. I mean, Nick Diaz now, is he going to fight Middleweight? He’s their Welterweight champion. He had one Welterweight fight. He used to fight Lightweight. I mean, it’s just… KJ Noons, when you give him a microphone, he wants to fight 170. Pat Healy was on Jordan Breen’s show. He said, all right, fine, I’ll call out KJ Noons because I want to prove I can do the 155 and 170 run in Strikeforce and in Josh Thomson you going to fight Gilbert Melendez, you just got a great win on TV. A rubber match. No, I’m not ready. Oh my God. I would absolutely jump out of a window.”
LUTFI SARIAHMED: “Here’s a question for you that just kind of popped into my head: For the longest time when we were talking about the Dan Henderson discussion in regard to what he was going to do, where he was going to sign, why he was going to sign where he said, we had said, all right Dan Henderson is going to go to Strikeforce because it’s more about the individual as opposed to just the promotion and it’s more about pumping up the individual than it is about the promotion on the whole. And you love that for the fighters because obviously it’s good for them, but it seems as if Strikeforce has run into all sorts of problems because they let the fighters dictate what’s going on.”
JACK ENCARNACAO: “Yeah. I think rather the fighters feel more emboldened to you know speak their mind in the direction and I’ve praised fighters in the UFC and the WEC on air for calling people out after fights because I consider it a huge waste of time to get a great win on TV and then just be you know not put into the mind of people who just watched you get you this great win who you might fight next and therefore invest them in your future to some small degree. But you know it seems to go in the complete opposite extreme with Strikeforce where I mean their big names are just impossible to pin down for fights, you just don’t know where they’re going, what they’re doing, who they want next, they’ll throw names out there just there’s nothing that’s built to it, you know why does Babalu want to fight Dan Henderson? If he has his reasons, you know he lost to him in 1999… if he his reasons, they certainly have nothing to do with what’s happened in Strikeforce you know whereas when guys in the UFC want to fight certain guys it’s because pf things they’ve done in the UFC and I think that’s part of the missing ingredient there for Strikeforce right now.”
Topics: Media, MMA, StrikeForce, Zach Arnold | 21 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |
3 times in recent memory Coker/SF said they would like to do something and then either just couldn’t pull it off or aren’t smart enough to realize they should.
1. During the entire broadcast for Fedor/Werdum, they were building up to the fact that the winner would be fighting for the SF Heavyweight Title against Overeem. Fedor loses and now they are changing course. Completely killed the narrative on that one.
2. Coker & Co talked about Babalu fighting for the SF title…. Only to find out later that they are friends and are unwilling to fight each other. Now he is less then 2 months away from an already announced Lawal Title fight, and nobody for him to compete against that anybody cares about. Good luck selling tickets to that event. Coker still hasn’t learned that he needs to sell FIGHTS not FIGHTERS.
3. Coker said that the winner of Smith/Le would compete in the Middleweight Tournament. Didn’t he want to ask Le about that one first? Cung Le came out recently and said he doesn’t want to compete in the tournament because of his age. A few weeks ago, smoogy posted how great this SF Middleweight Tournament was going to be. I said I would be shocked if either Shamrock or Le competed in it. Now Shamrock is retired and Le doesn’t want to fight anybody credible. This tournament is looking so bad that they are bringing in a Welterweight in Nick Diaz to compete (like they mentioned in the radio broadcast).
Why am I am so pro UFC? This discussion shows why. I believe nobody should be bigger then the sport. I have the complete opposite belief system in MMA as Josh Gross does. He believes the fighters should come first. But as we have seen in boxing, and certainly with failed MMA organizations…. When the fighters are first, it creates chaos and it doesn’t allow the organization to function properly. All of the major sports in America, nobody is bigger then the sport itself. They all fall under a banner. And that is how it needs to be in fighting.
Overeem vs. Ricco is a joke of a fight. Overeem likes to pad his record, but I think we all know that if he fought in the UFC pressure cooker…. He would crumble rather quickly. He always did in Pride when he was pressure by better top tier fighters. Added muscle won’t change a fighters heart.
The fight on the DREAM card that does interest me…. which is getting some heat from online fans as being a bad fight…. Is Mousasi vs. O’Brien. I think this is a great fight to see where Mousasi is at. He couldn’t stop the Lawal takedowns. O’Brien is a step below in wrestling but still solid. It will be a proper guage on Mousasi really.
Lastly, the big story out of the Fedor/Werdum/Overeem triangle is how Strikeforce is handling Overeem. They need to be real careful on how they handle the situation. If they book Werdum/Fedor 2, it is a huge slap in the face to Overeem by not giving him a “bigger money” fight. I highly doubt he will be easy to work with after they screw him over like that.
What you’re saying then is that even if the narrative makes less money, you need to follow it? LOL. Okay.
LOL given fighter salaries…
Fedor is more expensive to use.
And it’s this constant “short sighted” booking that will continue to keep SF from ever making a long term impact. At sone point they need to start treating their title belts like they mean something. Until try are willing to do that, it’s going to be constant problems.
No fight is going to make them much money. Fedor brings in more then Overeem, but he also costs more. It’s likely a wash. So the best thing is what is good for long term business. And that is establishing a good narrative and creating solid champions.
Not to mention that M-1 is impossible to negotiate with and have no care to be fair in that process. So why reward them by giving Fedor another chance and giving them all the leverage when his contract comes up? That is stupid on Coker’s part. Once again, looking at the next fight instead of the long term implications. It’s the same idiotic logic that has them losing Shields after he beat Henderson….
What do they owe Overeem? He has clearly made them a 3rd priority in his career (#1 K-1 #2 DREAM) so why should they rush over to meet his demands now that DREAM might not be able to afford him anymore? This is the type of payback you’d eat up like a Station Casino buffet if Dana was doing it: “Hey, you want to work with us regularly after hiding out for 2 years with our belt, huh? Well, how about we’ll call you when we’re ready.” But since you don’t get your vicarious rocks off to Scott Coker immaturity is now awful for business.
There’s no way they should not run Fedor-Werdum II first on a business level. People are dying to see this rematch, it’s the most anticipated fight they’ve ever had so you’d be crazy to not strike while the iron is hot. The story of Overeem dominating Rogers lasted maybe 2 days. The story of Werdum beating Fedor has been the top story in the sport for almost a whole week now.
If Werdum beats Fedor again, then you’ve proven it was no fluke and now people want to see him fight the guy they hate because they take him seriously now.
If Fedor avenges his loss, then you have a rubber match you can go with in the future and now he’s ready to fight Overeem, he’s redeemed himself and the interest in seeing Overeem fight the winner isn’t any less than it was in June.
Overeem had noone to fight. The SF HW division was a joke. And actually, the time off has served him well if you saw the fear he put into Brett Rogers.
Overeem is a guy who SF should keep around and active. Beyond being the champ, he is highly skilled, has a crowd pleasing style, and finishes fights. Fans would like to get to know and watch him. But now he has been left out in the cold after already being promoted to have a fight vs. the winner.
Fedor’s contract is only for another fight, will be interesting to see if he jumps ship after (if) beating Werdum.
MMAJunkie is claiming that Overeem is not fighting in DREAM and be done with the promotion.
Drama seems to follow both Fedor Emelianenko and Alistair Overeem around.
Somebody that BE linked to is speculating that it has to do with money, as in Overeem not being paid. Wouldn’t be shocking. I’m still surprised both Sengoku & DREAM are around right now. I was sure one of them would be out of business by now. Of course, neither did anything substantial in the first 6 months of 2010, but stil….
” I was sure one of them would be out of business by now.”
That’s a mistake I tend to make, expecting that just because I can see the writing on the wall, so can they, and that they won’t hold on to the bitter end just because they can.
If you hate Strikeforce and everything that is NOT the UFC, then why in the freaking world do you watch it? Obviously, you think it is a shitty product, and the fighters in SF are not NEAR the level that is in the UFC. You have made both of those claims several times over the past year. So with that being the case, then why in the world do you watch it and then feel the need to write a post trashing it? We get it that you don’t like it, and wouldn’t you be happier if all the fights you watched were in the UFC? Then you would not have that much to bitch about other than the occasional bad referee decision.
Please respond.
“We get it”
You post that same thing on every comment you make. Who is we? There are plenty of people on here with differing views on things than you. Are you the blog police?
Howabout trying to respond intelligently with points, rather than trying to play the superior intellect card all the time, because you obviously no where near that smart to use it.
Please don’t respond.
If you hate 45 Huddle and everything that he says, why in the freaking world do you read his posts? Obviously, you think his opinions are shitty, and his acumen is not near the level of yours. Etc…
“People are dying to see this rematch.”
Who? The Hardcores? You guys?
This is the problem they aren’t seeing. They could kill with Overeem/ Werdum. The guy that conquered Fedor vs. Holland’s version of Ivan Drago. Why do you guys, the Dave Meltzers of the world, and obviously SF not see that Overeem can be a HUGE draw?
“If Fedor avenges his loss, then you have a rubber match you can go with in the future and now he’s ready to fight Overeem, he’s redeemed himself and the interest in seeing Overeem fight the winner isn’t any less than it was in June.”
Basically a 2-3 year plan based around if Fedor wins…
What good would a rematch with Fedor do for a Werdum/Overeem fight if Werdum wins?
1) Saying they have more interest in this fight than anything else they’ve ever done isn’t saying a whole hell of a lot. But yes, MMA fans are very interested in seeing a rematch. And if you’re complaining about a “2 or 3 year plan” in the Fedor-Werdum-Overeem fights, you’re still going to have that if someone takes an extended time off but now everybody will get over the hype of Werdum-Fedor.
2) Overeem could be a star, yes. But he isn’t as well known as Fedor or Werdum are now. And most importantly you cannot depend on him, as he is arguably the biggest flake in MMA right now. For all the complaining about “Fedor takes too long between fights”, remember you cannot depend on Overeem. What if K-1 asks for him to come back, DREAM finds some money, or either Werdum or Fedor’s managers pisses him off with the steroid talk again? He had his chance to be in the Strikeforce rotation but chose to treat them like a part-time job he didn’t give a crap about. While Werdum and Fedor have SF as their top priority so it’s only right to look out for them first. Remember when the belief was Fedor would go book fights in Japan and Russia and only show up in SF once a year and everybody complained about how stupid it would be to base that company around him? So now it is acceptable for them to do that with Overeem?
3) I’ll bet Werdum is just as anxious to prove to the world he didn’t just get lucky against Fedor as he is of fighting Overeem for the title. He’s not going to be Matt Serra and go hide out for months and months because he knows it was a fluke, he immediately offered a rematch.
All good points.
I think I’d just rather see Werdum/Overeem now because I don’t trust that if they fight again (and Fedor wins) Fedor would stick around. I have a feeling Fedor would retire after the fight, and we would get Werdum/Overeem anyway so I would rather see that fight now instead of after a Werdum loss.
I would much rather see a Werdum and Overeem fight then Fedor Werdum 2 just for the fact of what happens after the Fedor Werdum fight? what does Fedor do? If SF can get Fedor to fight Big-Foot and Werdum vs Overeem then Fedor would need to renegotiate with SF to fight Werdum again. This would give SF the advantage for once in dealing with M1. That is a lot better then if you build the rematch saying the winner gets Overeem again. If Fedor wins then you have to deal with M-1 and do what ever they say so you can get the Fedor Overeem match.
Plus for Fedor I would rather see how he reacts after a loss and fight another opponent then the one who beat him. Let him show people he is still interested in MMA. Beat Big-Foot. If Fedor wins he fights the loser of Werdum vs Overeem and if we wins that then he fights for the title.
I really don’t care much about Werdum-Overeem II, its an ok fight but how could you not do the Fedor rematch right away? We have the most dominant run in MMA history come to an end and Fedor doesn’t deserve an immediate rematch? Why because Overeem has some phony belt that even Werdum doesn’t care about?
Werdum beats the undisputed heavyweight champion, gets very little credit (somehow an inactive Brock gets rewarded), the fans don’t want to see him get the big money rematch and on the flip side Fedor is dumped out of the sherdog P4P list after a 7 year run as HW champion. Too many people are enamored with the ‘narrative’ nonsense, and they want to reward the UFC and/or punish Strikeforce and M1…seriously who cares about all this company talk, its so boring and counterproductive for fans.
I have almost no interest in Fedor vs Werdum II. I didn’t care for the first one, and the only important thing to come out of it is proof that Fedor is not an unbeatable god. Even if Fedor beats Werdum in the rematch, who cares? He won’t get back his #1 ranking until he comes to the UFC, which is were all the interesting HW fights are.
“Fedor is dumped out of the sherdog P4P list after a 7 year run as HW champion…”
I think everyone can agree that it is absolutely INSANE that he got dropped all the way out of the top 10. I had him at #3 before the fight, and I would be hardpressed to drop him more than a few spots…
Take for instance Machida only dropping a few spots after getting KTFO by Shogun…
[…] lastly Fight Opinion transcribes this exchange from Sherdog radio that gets to the heart of Strikeforce’s problems […]
hye ppl. first of all a man who has been the heavyweight champ for the last ten years makes a hasty mistake by tring to finish the fight quickly as he is a human being and might have just had something else on his mind maybe family or fiance or anything that could cause a distraction and obvisaly there was a distraction of some sort thats why FEDOR lost. Lets just forget abowt strikefore a min. UFC.BROCK LESNER. This is where all the hype is and every one wants to think that Brock is the man. I will admit he is when he comes of the ROIDS,actually forget that let him stay on em coz DANA WHITE has a way of passing him throw the tests as Brock is his new bum chum way of tring to get to FEDOR THE LAST EMPEROR. I have closely obsereved the ufc and strikefore fights. and i was not even a fan of both who made a fan out of all fighters FEDOR. Lets just forget all his qualities a min. What quality does DANA WHITES BROCK LESNER have stand up punch and ground and pound by lying on the opponent with all that ROID weight. BROCK says it he respects FEDOR but is only being trained to provoke the emperor and thats fine i know and so do all treu fight fans and the opponents that FEDOR has faced what he can bring to the fight. I CAN SAY WITH 100% CONFIDENCE BROCK WILL HAVE TO KILL FEDOR TO STOP HIM FEDOR THE EMPEROR HAS A LIONS HEART AND IS NOT PHASED BY SIEZE PROVOKING OR ANY FORM OF ABUSE. If any of the emperor s camp read this please make this happen as one of as the emperor s LAST Fight and then no ufc fan will ever be able to kill the LEGEND OF FEDOR THE EMPEROR E.
MANY MANY THANKS ZACK KHAN