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Dueling talk show opinions on whether or not Fedor/Werdum II should be booked

By Zach Arnold | June 28, 2010

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In the red corner, a passage from late Saturday night’s Observer show coming out in support of a re-match and of Dave Meltzer also stating that he expressed this opinion to Scott Coker:

DAVE MELTZER: “[Fedor] can still draw, you know I mean you know anyone who thinks that like this guy’s done because of one loss, you know even this kind of loss, is crazy because I mean I’m not you know like the one thing we’ve learned is that MMA fighters can lose and they’ll retain their drawing power as long as they don’t you know just…”

BRYAN ALVAREZ: “Lose a lot of them in a devastating fashion.”

DAVE MELTZER: “Yeah, lose a lot in a devastating fashion and just like appear to be shot and you know anyone can lose. The Fedor/Werdum fight will be a real big fight and you know he may very well win that re-match and maybe he won’t. If he loses the re-match, it will you know I think that he’ll be, you know as far as being a big-time draw, it’ll be tough. You know the other thing that was interesting you know as it turned out when it was all said and done, Fedor did not outdraw Gina Carano here. You know it was 12,698 people. Which is you know, good, but it wasn’t great. The crowd, I mean, the crowd was very into him. I mean he was definitely the star of the show when he came out. Crowd loved the show live, you know I mean, even before the Fedor fight you could really tell with the Cung Le fight that when itw as over that people were just really buzzing, that they just thought that they had seen so far a really great show. The Josh Thompson/Pat Healy fight was really good. Really good live. You know all the TV fights were.”

BRYAN ALVAREZ: “The Fedor fight… when it was over they interviewed both guys and Werdum, they asked him about Alistair Overeem and Werdum in the post-match promo basically said that Fedor was his favorite fighter, Fedor was still the best fighter in the world and he wanted to give Fedor a re-match and I know that Fedor during the press conference said that he would love to have a re-match as well and realistically the Fedor/Werdum re-match is so much bigger match than Werdum and Alistair Overeem, at least in my opinion.”

DAVE MELTZER: “I completely agree and I expressed that opinion to them tonight because it was like the original thought of Scott Coker was Werdum against Overeem since that was you know the whole idea of this fight was the winner fights Overeem but when you sit down and think about it, you know and you weigh the options, the fact is that of the three the money guy is still Fedor. You know, I mean, even though he lost. And if you have Werdum beating Fedor a second time and then fighting Overeem, OK, that’s fine. But if you go with Werdum and Overeem next, if Werdum wins you probably can do Werdum and Fedor but you’d almost to put Fedor against somebody like Kharitonov to win to get a championship fight you know shot. Maybe not. But if Overeem were to beat Werdum you’d have Overeem and Fedor in a sense but you know everybody would complain unless Fedor got a win so you’re, it’s just to me it’s better business to go with you know I mean let’s face it, more people of all the fights the fight that people want to see is Werdum/Fedor re-match so that’s where I would go and the winner of that against Overeem or maybe put Overeem against you know somebody if you want to put him against you know Kharitonov or I don’t know who, there’s really no competition for him and you know but that’s certainly how you know if you want to do the CBS thing, you know with if CBS comes back and this show helped greatly in that regard, I mean it’s not like it’s a done deal or anything like that but this show was certainly a positive for Strikeforce getting back on CBS, that if you could get you know a show with you know Fedor against Werdum, Overeem against someone, just so Overeem gets on the show, and you know two other fights perhaps you know I mean perhaps a Herschel Walker in there or a Bobby Lashley or something, you know, I mean Bobby Lashley/Dave Batista you know which is certainly been heavily talked about. You put that, that’s actually a pretty damn good ratings show right there, pretty damn good. It would be record-breaking.”

In the blue corner, a passage from Sherdog radio on late Saturday night in which the idea of Fedor/Werdum II gets completely destroyed.

TJ DE SANTIS: “Post-fight, Fabricio Werdum sort of dismissed the idea of fighting Alistair Overeem next at first and said, I want to fight Fedor again. Let’s do it again. He’s the best. Let’s do it in Russia, let’s do it anywhere. Were you surprised by Werdum’s willingness to fight Fedor as quick? I mean, yeah, the submits him in the first round, but… he’s got to know back in his head that it was almost one-of-a-million that it went that way.”

JORDAN BREEN: “I can’t think of a worse thing to say, both for him and for Strikeforce. The fight they want to sell is against Overeem, he’s already beat Overeem once, I’m sure they would like to put that fight together. They gave Overeem an on-camera interview, they showed him immediately after the fight. They’re clearly trying to build towards it and the guy just turns around, NO, I want to fight Fedor again.”

TJ DE SANTIS: “It’s, it’s interesting too because this almost is similar to when Gina Carano lost to Cristiane Cyborg Santos… that sort of stopped the momentum for female Mixed Martial Arts, it really stopped the momentum I think in Strikeforce for valid female Mixed Martial Arts competition. Is there sort of a similar effect from Fedor losing for their heavyweight division? I mean, is Alistair Overeem, you know, a viable enough champion to go hey, look, we’re Strikeforce, we’re not the UFC but we have decent heavyweights.”

JORDAN BREEN: “Yeah, well…”

TJ DE SANTIS: “I don’t know.”

JORDAN BREEN: “Yeah. That whole division seemed hinged on Fedor Emelianenko at this point in time. The people, what people are going to extrapolate by in large, unfortunately, and it’s not really, it’s kind of disingenuous, there’s people going to look at Werdum getting ousted from the UFC as a guy who had to bitchslap Andrei Arlovski and couldn’t beat him to getting plunked by Junior dos Santos and just go, well, the UFC Heavyweights are better now. They have these young lions and they’ve far usurped guys like Overeem and Werdum and Fedor Emelianenko. I suspect that will be the narrative and frankly, I think for instance I was most interested before this fight in seeing a guy like Cain Velasquez fight Fedor Emelianenko but what’s more important now is even if ultimately the truth is Werdum is still a good heavyweight and could beat some decent guys in the UFC, same for Overeem and same for Emelianenko. The sense that Fedor Emelianenko is all-encompassing and all-powerful is definitely done and now the idea’s simply going to be, well the UFC is where all the best guys are and if you’re not there, well, then you’re really, really missing out.”

TJ DE SANTIS: “69 seconds.”

JORDAN BREEN: “I waited 7 years, over 7 years, 7 years plus 3 months to have a 69 second triangle arm bar followed by a guy saying, my feel is very, very hep. That’s what I waited 7 years for.”

TJ DE SANTIS: “My feel is very, very shocked.”

JORDAN BREEN: “Yeah, my feel definitely very, very shocked. Again, not even… I was never, Fedor was obviously going to lose at some in point and I always thoughts the idea of him being this indestructible cyborg was silly but I didn’t expect it being a guy like Werdum from a triangle sub-90 seconds. That seems, that’s what ridiculous about the whole thing.”

TJ DE SANTIS: “Do me a favor and do some of the MMA fans a favor, if they are maybe new to Mixed Martial Arts… They look at Fabricio Werdum, they see that yeah he’s a Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu black belt, they see that you know he has good ground skills and that was evident [Saturday], but for a lot of people Werdum doesn’t have the high profile of a Minotauro Nogueira who fought Fedor Emelianenko multiple times and always came up short. The only time he ever showed any sort of offense was when a head butt stopped the bout and ended it in a no-contest. What made Werdum do what really arguably a lot of people look at Nogueira as the best Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu fighter in MMA couldn’t do? What was the difference here? Why was Werdum able to do what Nogueira couldn’t?”

JORDAN BREEN: “Well he got a more fantastic opportunity, that’s one thing. I mean, Nogueira kind of just played an open guard the entire time. Werdum was in a wild scramble situation and seized the moment instantaneously. Nogueira didn’t have a whole lot of opportunities quite like that. And the other thing to consider is, yes, Nogueira’s definitely a great jiu-jitsu player. Werdum’s a far accomplished jiu-jitsu player than Nogueira. You know, he’s won the Worlds twice, he won his division at Abu Dhabi twice, he’s good with the gi, without the gi. He is more physically powerful as well. I can only imagine… he’s maybe the most sneaky big guy in MMA. People think, like, if I had to ask you on the top of your head how big Werdum is, how big would you say?”

TJ DE SANTIS: “Well, he’s bigger than Fedor…”

JORDAN BREEN: “I mean this guy is 6’4″ and just over 240 pounds normally, like he came in at like 239 or 240 for this fight but like he’s a physically big, big dude and people don’t think of him as that big because they see him butt-scooting and playing guard a lot so he doesn’t physically monstrous but he’s a really big dude, really powerful and extremely light and nimble on the ground so when you consider what he has going for him, his athletic skills kind of line up very well for what he actually does on the floor and on top of that, technically you can’t ask for a whole lot better. I mean I think most hardcore Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu people still consider Pe De Pano probably the best heavyweight jiu-jitsu player ever at least strictly in the gi but when you consider gi and no gi accomplishment, Werdum is right up there and has technique to spare, so when you consider that coupled with the fact that he got an opportunity in a fight where Emelianenko was being extremely reckless, something that Nogueira didn’t get a whole lot of, they had more straight guard interplay… It’s a bit of a different dynamic that Werdum was able to capitalize on.”

Here is a long passage discussing the chaos regarding the rewriting of Fedor’s career history, his future, and the future of everyone who surrounded him:

TJ DE SANTIS: “You mention that you think Georges St. Pierre/Matt Serra is a bigger upset. I can agree with you in the sense that GSP is probably a more well-rounded, better fighter than Fedor Emelianenko but really looking at Fedor and just the luster and aura that surrounds him, the mystery, the cult following behind Fedor. I think that has to be you know looked in and taken into consideration when you look at this upset because I mean really, what does Strikeforce have more than Fedor Emelianenko? He’s really almost their everything. I mean, they have some up-and-coming prospects that are interesting but when you look at Strikeforce, you go, oh, well they got Fedor Emelianenko. They still have Fedor Emelianenko but it’s not the Fedor that everyone was you know fawning over to I mean I don’t know. Where does the status of Fedor Emelianenko go from here? Because, yeah, he’s still probably one of the greatest Mixed Martial Artists of all time, but you know his stock as of now has dropped considerably.”

JORDAN BREEN: “It feels bigger than the Serra/GSP thing. Serra/GSP felt like an upset, it felt like wow, how could this underdog who no one thought was any kind of Welterweight of any kind of renown who won a reality show. A lot of people thought he lost to Chris Lytle.”

TJ DE SANTIS: “I thought he lost to Chris Lytle!”

JORDAN BREEN: “How could this guy, who had to clinch up and dance for 15 minutes with Chris Lytle, completely blow away a guy who seemed positioned to take over the sport and it’s reign as it’s pound-for-pound king?”

TJ DE SANTIS: “Let’s make this distinction, too. A lot of people called the Matt Serra win a lucky punch, they said it was a punch to the back of the head. There was nothing really lucky about this submission. Werdum went for an arm bar first, Fedor got out, he managed to get a triangle on. I mean he transitioned. This was absolute skill. There wasn’t anything lucky about the submission that Fabricio Werdum pulled off in the Strikeforce cage.”

JORDAN BREEN: “No, it was a perfect transition. He went for the arm bar first and wasn’t able to get to it and then when Fedor kind of bumped up against the fence and put his head down, perfect triangle, perfect technique and something that he did really well though that a lot of guys even great high-level jiu-jitsu guys don’t take the time to do is he made sure it was air-tight and had complete control before he started torquing on the arm. You see all the time guys for a triangle and they go, oh, well the arm’s out there, I’ll get that. They end up yanking on the arm like a stick shift and pushing their hips forward and they end up coming off the triangle because it’s not properly applied. He had all his bases covered, did it absolutely perfectly, the kind of technique you’d expect from one of the best heavyweight jiu-jitsu players ever in both gi and no-gi grappling. Just great, great stuff from Fabricio Werdum and… it was awkward to watch because for the first, I don’t know, 10-15 seconds of the choke, you’re sitting there thinking well, I’ve seen this before, Nogueira got his hips up on him. Mark Hunt had him in a key lock position for a minute and just didn’t know how to do a key lock properly. This is, he’s going to be swept, he’s going to be pass underneath, get to side control and the beating will resume. And then he kind of realized, no, this is tight, this is he’s not going anywhere, he might escape maybe but he might lose this and then he kind of realized like this is it! He’s… either he’s about to go to sleep or he’s about to tap out and we got the most dramatic single-tap in MMA history. It was really a surreal roller coaster over the 20-30 seconds that he was ensnared there.”

TJ DE SANTIS: “Yeah, it’s true, and the one tap is almost fitting for one of the most mysterious men in MMA to submit. You know they’re going to be Fedor backers going, he only tapped once, you should have let him get out of there more. You know the hype train and just the ridiculousness of the Fedor fans are going to be trying to come up with every excuse on how they should have just been given a little more time to work out of that submission.”

JORDAN BREEN: “No, it’s irrelevant, though, he clearly tapped and intended to tap. That’s all there is to that.”

TJ DE SANTIS: “Now here’s the question, though, Breen. You know the haters and not even just haters, just a lot of I mean this is what I hate about sports in general. When someone as great as Fedor is in combat sports loses, people like to jump on the bandwagon easy going oh he’s past his prime, he’s done, he’s a shot fighter. If they restart the fight right now, I’m still picking Fedor.”

JORDAN BREEN: “Yep, makes two of us. No questions asked. I think he’s definitely a better fighter but the thing is now… the margin for error is much, much smaller and something that Fedor enjoyed, I mean he’s definitely the best heavyweight ever, this is still true. However, I think a lot of the hero worship and myth construction that went along with guys who fought in PRIDE is partly because of great wins but something that I think people were really exposed to when Cro Cop started losing and losing more frequently is a lot of the reason that they seemed big and something larger-than-life instead of just being really good high-end fighters was that the high-level accomplishments they had were always kind of padded and fleshed out with them just annihilating people and people lose this sense of context, so what ends up happening is when you have a great all-time win like a Nogueira win or a Cro Cop win and you pad it on either side with you know a rematch with TK (Tsuyoshi Kohsaka) or Zuluzinho and these kinds of things, what ends up happening is people just remember the big wins but they also remember the violence that ensued in those other fights and it creates a much larger picture of hero worship and greatness, indestructibility that perhaps really shouldn’t exist. If on a fight-in, fight-out basis for seven years Fedor Emelianenko fought the absolute best heavyweights in the world and better still, if the heavyweights in the world were as good then as they are in 2010, he probably would have lost sooner. It’s not because he’s not a great heavyweight and still not perhaps because he’s not the greatest heavyweight ever, it’s simply because that’s the nature of fighting. It’s difficult and very few people are able to reign with that kind of impunity.”

TJ DE SANTIS: “This isn’t the first time that we’ve seen the kingpin of a division get upset and not really even show emotion. It was sort of similar when Matt Hughes lost to BJ Penn at UFC 46 and Hughes just sort of shrugged it off. Fedor showed little emotion. There’s rumors about the man going into politics and really I mean for a long time we’ve seen in interviews were Fedor says you know fighting isn’t my passion, fighting is my job. Does he bounce back from this and reclaim his throne as the best heavyweight fighter in the world or do we see the perfect timing for Fedor to exit from combat sports and seek other avenues in his life?”

JORDAN BREEN: “We have no real precedent for it. We have no idea how he will react. It’s very easy to get a character rprofile on a guy who lost seriously, I mean the loss the TK loss is not exactly one that plays into the larger narrative of the man’s career. There’s a reason that most people referred to him prior as actually being undefeated, acting as though the TK thing didn’t matter at all. So I think it’s going to be interesting how he himself reacts. Maybe he realizes in losing that fighting’s more valuable to him than he thought it was or conversely maybe he realizes that he doesn’t care as much as some people care about. I mean the forums have already been destroyed, we’re having some server issues right now. People are crazed about this outcome. So, is he as crazed about it? Does it upset him and resound with him as deeply or is he just feel like, oh I lost, I can move on with my life, I’m just a sportsman? We don’t really know anything about how the man copes with that kind of loss because we’ve never got to see it before. The closest thing we got was when he lost the Sambo world championships to Blagoi Ivanov which no one cares about at all. I mean this is a lot different, so I’m not sure what we see. I’m interested in seeing what happens now because it’s more than just a loss, it’s a massive paradigm shift for MMA. We’re going to have a new Heavyweight consensus world #1 and on top of that, you now have an entire promotion in M-1 whose very livelihood is hinged on the success of this one guy whose entire promotability is hinged on the fact that he was unbeaten apart from an errant elbow to the eye some years ago in Japan.”

Topics: Media, MMA, StrikeForce, Zach Arnold | 52 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |

52 Responses to “Dueling talk show opinions on whether or not Fedor/Werdum II should be booked”

  1. edub says:

    Dave Meltzer seems to get stupider each day.
    “Let’s just keep having the best guys in Strikeforce not fight each other”… seems to be the way he looks at the situation.

    Have Fedor fight Big Foot. Have Werdum and Overeem go at it. The winner’s fight each other. That is if Fedor still wants to fight after his next match.

    • First edition says:

      You’re calling Meltzer stupid and then suggesting that Fedor fight Antonio Silva? Yeah, that’s brilliant. Fedor-Werdum 2 is the only plausible CBS headliner Strikeforce and Showtime can offer right now.

      • edub says:

        I was just providing a keep busy fight because SF has no other valid HWs besides those 4. Why in the world should they rematch each other just to keep Fedor and Werdum happy.

        How about they do what’s right for their promotion. I have a bunch of friends who are “casual” fans and they asked multiple times about when is he gonna fight again. If they play their cards right “Overeem” can turn into a very marketable fighter.

        And yes. I am still calling Melzer stupid.

      • Black Dog says:

        I agree, there should be a rematch. That short a fight, despite Werdum doing what a lot of Fedor fans believed he couldn’t, doesn’t really settle the issue.

        A rematch would be very good for CBS and Strikeforce, and they can really work it up.

        And Meltzer: he is an idiot. I think he still believes he’s covering pro wrestling, and running worked smack for magazines of the type he and Bill Apter used to stroke for.

  2. 45 Huddle says:

    I do think Fedor lost a lot of his appeal. He was always built up on the fact that he was basically unbeatable. He has now lost.

    There is a reason why Strikeforce is no longer doing a PPV. It’s because Fedor lost some of his drawing power. If Fedor’s drawing power didn’t change, then Coker would still be talking PPV. So Meltzer is flat out wrong here.

    They need to make Overeem/Werdum. They pushed the fact that the winner of Werdum/Fedor would fight Overeem. If they change that up because their favorite didn’t win….. It’s another example in a long line of tem of SF treating their fighters poorly when they don’t expect them to win.

    • smoogy says:

      Yeah, poor Werdum, he might get the fight he prefers and asked for.

      I wouldn’t jump to the conclusion they’ve scrapped all PPV plans just because Coker didn’t bring it up in the post-fight presser.

    • Zach Arnold says:

      Bellator can be accused of this as well, recently.

      After Zoila Frausto (who Bjorn Rebney admitted wasn’t in their Top 10 of 115 pound female fighters) blasted Rosi Sexton into outer space, Bjorn admitted that he was waffling on whether or not to put Zoila into their 115 pound female tournament because “we don’t want to skip over #9, #10” on their slots on paper.

      It’s a slap in the face to Zoila because it’s the promotion coming out and admitting, hey, we thought Rosi would win that fight and we didn’t think that highly of Zoila. That’s the kind of booking that you cannot do in MMA — you can’t just expect that a squash match will turn out the way you think it will. Any time you put a high-level fighter in against anyone with at one least type of skill, you always risk seeing the favorite lose in a squash situation.

      It’s doubly dangerous in booking women’s MMA because you don’t know how the top fighters really are due to a lack of depth in all the major weight classes. Plus a lot of the female fighters right now have very poor stand-up. That stand-up by Rosi was terrible. She left herself open most of that fight against someone with good striking and paid for it.

      • smoogy says:

        I think that situation may have something to do with Zoila Frausto being unable to cut to 115lbs.

        Ed. — Z says she can make the cut. And, let’s say your statement is accurate, that makes the booking of that fight even dumber because if Zoila wins, she’s supposedly not a 115 pounder.

  3. Kyle says:

    The post-fight interview with Werdum was deeply weird. I don’t think I’ve ever heard a fighter call out the guy that he just finished before. Especially not when the alternative is a title shot. Apparently Werdum considers Strikeforce titles as worthless as everybody else does.

  4. Cole says:

    Makes sense to book the rematch. There’s more intrigue now and regardless of a loss, Fedor is still their biggest star and can still draw. There’s no interest in Werdum/Overeem, it would be a disaster on ppv.

  5. travis from az says:

    I say strikeforce is nuts is they don’t book fedor vs overeem. Fedor only having one more fight on his contract means hell have SF by the short hairs again. At least with overeem finally back in the states fighting it Kinda becomes a two birds one stone scenario.

  6. Derreck says:

    Its probably the only fight they can book, Werdum/Overeem is box office death and Fedor/Overeem lost its luster. Problem is Fedor only has 1 fight left and SF can’t have him beat Werdum and leave.

  7. travis from az says:

    I think overeem vs fedor is the bigger draw n better fight. Fedor only truly lost once n I don’t think it set him back much. He’s been beating ppl down fer years n Hopefully at the very least this loss will take some of the BS power away from his management n they wont b able ta pick n choose his every match.

  8. Mr. Roadblock says:

    Maybe SF should just get rid of its HW division.

    I don’t know. Can they do that?

    What do they have left? Fedor is going to leave after one more fight most likely. Overeem/Werdum is not appealing.

    Probalby the most exciting fight they can book is Bigfoot Silva vs Rogers and they’re non-factors.

    Maybe Bigfoot vs Overeem would be fun.

    Why risk Fedor vs Overeem now. What if Fedor wins and goes to UFC. Then you scrambled your entire division for nothing.

    I wouldn’t be surprised to see Werdum head back to UFC too now. Anyone know how many fights he has left?

    • The whole thing has been FUBAR since they got the Showtime and Fedor deals done. I would watch Overeem/Werdum II, but it feels more like a light heavyweight title fight for Michalczewski end of the linear championship after he and Roy Jones had both lost and it splintered all over the place. Like Zsolt Erdei/Hugo Garay I should have mattered…but didn’t. To anyone, even the hardcore fans.

  9. David M says:

    Fedor’s contract situation meant that no matter the result of this fight, Strikeforce was going to be in a bind when his contract expired. If he had won against Werdum, and then beaten Overroid, he would have the belt and would be a free agent. Now that he has lost, what do they do with him? He is too big of a name/draw to not have him in the main event, but to you want to promote someone in a main event who is going to leave? What is the upside if he beats Werdum? Then Fedor can leave and go back to Japan, and Strikeforce will have nobody to put against Alistair. The only thing going for Strikeforce is that I think Fedor would rather die than sign with the UFC.

  10. Mark says:

    I think doing a pay per view with Fedor-Werdum II is the most hype they could ever get for a main event. People want to know if this was a fluke or not. So I think the hype that main event would get would dwarf Overeem-Fedor by a landslide. Just like how GSP-Serra had 10 times the interest in the rematch.

    • Mr. Roadblock says:

      Honestly, would you pay $50 to see that rematch?

      • Miller says:

        If they had PPVs regularly this would be a blockbuster. Since SF has made fans used to getting shows for free, it would be probably at or below 100,000 purchases.

        • Mr. Roadblock says:

          See, that’s exactly it.

          They were setting up to sell everyone Overeem vs Fedor for $50. To do it they gave away Fedor vs Werdum for free.

          You get a 69 second submission win and I don’t see how you can charge $50 to see the rematch.

          This highlighs a problem for SF and any of these ‘superfight’ promotions. SF has been booking itself more as the home of Fedor and Gina Carano and Cung Le than Strikeforce. When things don’t go as plan they’re in big trouble.

          Any UFC star can lose and UFC is OK, because the UFC sells ‘UFC Events’ rather than specific fighters.

        • Its easy to say that the UFC smartly promotes as an organization, but they still need stars to sell tickets and PPVs. Rampage and Rashad together sells PPVs in a way the UFC name alone can’t for Randy Couture or Cain Velasquez.

          I don’t see some great alternative for Strikeforce. This isn’t pro wrestling where you can change aspects of the presentation to differentiate themselves.

  11. Fluyid says:

    Time for a Strikeforce PHREAK DIVISION. You can thank me later, Scott Coker. I’ve just saved your promotion.

    Canseco vs. Batista
    Fedor vs. Two lightweights
    Herschel Walker vs. Henry “Sentoryu” Miller
    Dan Quinn vs. Mariusz Pudzianowski
    ATT coach Howard Davis vs. Shawn Tompkins

    • Mr. Roadblock says:

      I just spit coffee at “Fedor vs Two Lightweights”.

      I’ve always wanted to see that concept. For years I’ve wanted to see one of the Klitschkos vs 3 135lbers.

      • Fluyid says:

        Unless the 35ers had a hell of a strategy, I’d take a Klitschko. I think he’d take’em out methodically, one at a time. I’d love to see it, though.

        They’d have to circle him and dart in and out like crazy.

    • Miller says:

      Is it wrong that I want to see every one of these?

    • edub says:

      There is definately something wrong when I would pay up to 100 dollars to see all of that.

      May I add:
      Kimbo vs. 50 cent

  12. rainrider says:

    > I don’t think I’ve ever heard a fighter call out the guy that he just finished before

    Kitaoka asked a rematch with Gomi when he submitted him. Guys like Kitaoka and Werdum were not born to be a star. They are not humble or anything, they just know the belts don’t belong to them.

  13. IceMuncher says:

    It should be Werdum vs Overeem. If they don’t do it because they want more viewers, then they should drop all pretense and just do Fedor vs Overeem. It’ll get more views than the rematch, and the controversial match-making would stir up interest.

    Plus, if Fedor wins, then a rematch with Werdum is even bigger and they get a storyline: Werdum beats Fedor, but gets screwed out of the title shot and they give it to Fedor anyway, and now he’s taking on the man he already beat to get it back.

    Go big or go home. Going half-serious/half-freakshow will get you nowhere, it’s too illegitimate to take seriously, too boring to watch for spectacle.

  14. Jonathan says:

    Personal feelings aside, just quoting Dave Meltzer and Jordan Breen radio shows is not the way to provide content for your site Zach. I do not know if I am the only one seeing it, but that is what you have been doing a lot of lately. Can you tell me why you have continually linked your stuff to Dave Meltzer and Jordan Breen? You can e-mail me at my e-mail address if you do not want to make an editorial content.

    • edub says:

      Don’t read them then.

      Zach is doing a service bringing as much MMA to this site as humanly possible.

      Breen is an encyclopedia of knowledge on MMA. Melzer is a former prowrestling guy. You do know that Breen is a writer on a site a lot more people frequent than Melzer’s right….

      Don’t listen to the bottom feeders Zach. Some people read the articles because they don’t have time to listen to the radio. Some people read them because they just like listening to internet radio.

      • David M says:

        edub are you Jordan Breen? There is no way anybody with even half a brain would assert that more people visit than yahoo sports. gets 1.4 million monthly US visitors (, gets 7.9 million ( Also, the fact that Meltzer “was a pro wrestling guy” doesn’t change the fact that he has been covering mma since its inception in America. He was a UFC judge, has been interviewed on Bill Simmons’ podcast, has written for the LA Times, has written a ground-breaking and incredibly successful newsletter for decades, and Frank Deford of Sports Illustrated fame called him the “the most accomplished reporter in sport journalism”. However I guess once one gets as far down the mma-fanboy rabbit hole as you are, all that matters is who has an e-radio show that 100 people listen to.

        • edub says:

          Really so all the people who visit Yahoo sports go there for the mma page?

          Really? You’re serious?

          OMG a whole bunch of people who never cover MMA like him. Wow.

          Cecil Peoples and Douglas Crosby have judged UFC events too….

          “Frank Deford of Sports Illustrated fame called him the “the most accomplished reporter in sport journalism”.”

          Stupidest way of trying to make a point on an a MMA blog…ever. Seriously he beats out guys like Costas, Gumble, Kornheiser, and Wilbon?

          “However I guess once one gets as far down the mma-fanboy rabbit hole as you are”

          What you trying to say here man? That I like Breen because he’s a UFC mark? Because thats just a terrible point on many levels.

          Get your game up man.

        • edub says:

          Judge at UFC 18…

          When they were still years away from unified rules. Maybe we should be listening to Jeff Blatnick.

        • David M says:

          It is quite amusing to think that yahoo sports mma, which is partnered with the UFC and is highlighted quite prominently on the sports site of the biggest or 2nd biggest search engine in the world, wouldn’t get the hits that fucking gets. I never said that all 7.9 million monthly visitors to that site read their mma stuff, but do you really think the UFC would partner with them and give them all the access they do if they didn’t have an incredibly large audience? Meltzer’s columns are often on the front page of yahoo sports, and he interviews the biggest names in the game. Jordan Breen is on a radio show that nobody who isn’t an incredibly hardcore fan has ever heard of or listened to. Honestly I am shocked someone is even willing to argue this.

          Oh wow, Meltzer was a judge before the unified rules; I guess that means he doesnt know anything about the sport. Your original point was that he was in pro wrestling before mma (which implied he didn’t know the sport or that it was a knock on his credibility to be involved with pro wrestling before mma, both incredibly stupid points), so now that you accept that he was in mma before Zuffa, your next argument is that the fact he has been in the game for so long is irrelevant because the rules are different. Jeez.

          I don’t know if your listing of other sports journalists is meant to be sarcastic or not, but generally when one of the most prominent sports writers of the last half-century calls someone the most accomplished reporter in sports journalism, that means something. I am sorry if you have been listening to the Jordan Breen radio hour on repeat for so long that you don’t know who Frank Deford is, but the point is that there is a world outside of mma marks, and Dave Meltzer is widely recognized in that world; Jordan Breen is not even in the same league, and it is harmful for your credibility to imply otherwise.

        • edub says:

          Dude, your arguing against points that I’m not even making…

  15. David M says:

    Jonathan I agree about Jordan Breen but I disagree about Meltzer. The latter is a professional journalist with a deep understsnading of the ppv industry who has been a UFC judge, been around the game for a very long time, and is one of the lead writers on one of the most visited mainstream mma sites. The former is a fan just like anyone else on this site, except he has an e-radio show that 30 people listen to.

    • Jonathan says:

      I do not have a problem with either one of them, My problem is that Zach is posting radio transcript after radio transcript after radio transcript of their radio programs. To me, this shows me that either a) he is trying to associate his name with theirs by rehashing what they are talking about word-for-word or b) you are short on content and transcribing radio programs is an easy way to get lots of type and words for your site.

      If you look on the front page, as of last night, Jordan Breen’s name appeared over eight times, and that was on the front page alone. I am sure that it appears more times now with this latest post.

      • Miller says:

        Is it your site? No? Then let the guy do what he wants to do.

        Personally I love it. Because you don’t have to sit through an hour of show to get to a highlight. And also the Dave Meltzer stuff is subscription based so it’s nice not to pay for something of note.

        And BTW, before the transcripts started there was nearly no content but links on here. So what did you want him to revert to, links?

        • Jonathan says:

          If other people are happy with it, than more power to him. I guess that I just expected more out of I expected more original articles, must like the one where he wrote about the agent that had control of Cro Cop and Fedor way back in the Pride days. I love those pieces. Transcripts of radio programs…you know…not so much.

  16. Cole says:

    Fedor/Werdum II is the only real option for Strikeforce. Short-term, its the only big money fight they have. The negative to booking the fight is if Fedor beat Werdum, which will likely happen, they have no immediate title contender for Overeem. Fedor will likely be UFC bound after his SF contract is up, as Zuffa will offer him a better deal, as there’s no way SF will offer close to what he’s getting now.

  17. […] You could argue Strikeforce booking the immediate rematch is a bit of a slight to their heavyweight champion, but let’s be honest, Fedor-Werdum II is a bigger fight than Overeem-Werdum II. It’s going to be hard for Strikeforce to turn that down. They pay a lot of money for Fedor, so they might as well get the biggest fight out of him they possibly can, and right now, that’s a rematch with Fabricio Werdum. […]

  18. Tradition Rules says:

    Just my opinion here, but Strikeforce screwed themselves in so many ways:

    First, they booked Fedor this close to the end of his contract (short as it is) in a “winner get sthe title shot match” vs Werdum.

    Then Fedor loses.

    Now, are in a bind.

    They promoted the Fedor vs Werdum fight as a #1 contender fight and are having second thoughts on giving Verdum the titel shot at Overeem?”


    “Problem is Fedor only has 1 fight left and SF can’t have him beat Werdum and leave.”


    “They need to make Overeem/Werdum. They pushed the fact that the winner of Werdum/Fedor would fight Overeem.”


    “Fedor’s contract situation meant that no matter the result of this fight, Strikeforce was going to be in a bind when his contract expired. If he had won against Werdum, and then beaten Overroid, he would have the belt and would be a free agent. Now that he has lost, what do they do with him? He is too big of a name/draw to not have him in the main event, but to you want to promote someone in a main event who is going to leave?”

    That last quote/paragraph I copied says it all.

    If they don’t give Werdum the title shot, Strikeforce looks like they are screwing him over.

    If they have Werdum fight fedor immediatly again ala Machida/Hua 2, they look like they are screwing him over.

    If they give Werdum the title shot & he defeats Overeem & they don’t have Fedor fight again until he gets a title shot vs the Winner of Werdum/Overeem (which is something they may consider as a solution to this mess), Werdum has to have his first title defence against the guy he beat for the title shot.

    If Verdum is booked Fedor again and looses & Fedor wins and fight Overeem and wins and THEN leaves/retires,…well Strikeforce STILL looks bad, because it shows the fighter who just became their champ isn’t even interested in sticking around.

    The only thing they can do at this point, I feel, is to book with what will doo as little damage as possible…which means-

    1) Verdum vs Overeem. If overeem wins, he is marketable because of his build and good looks 9to the casula fans, this would matter).

    2)As someone said, maybe the next best option for Fedor IS to have him fight Bigfoot Silva. It’s not a fight *I’m* wanting to see, but to have Fedor defeat a monster might be appealing to mainstream/casual fans.

    I personally feel they HAVE to give Werdum the title shot. If they don’t, it will destroy what little credibility they have left.

    And as was said,:

    “Why risk Fedor vs Overeem now. What if Fedor wins and goes to UFC. Then you scrambled your entire division for nothing.

  19. Vic Mackey says:

    You know, Dave Meltzer must get paid, I mean, by the word, you know.

  20. Matthew says:

    I think because of Fedors contract situation the best the for SF to do would be to have Overeem vs Werdum and put Fedor against either Silva or Rodgers. This way when Fedors finishes his contract if he still wants to fight Werdum they have a chip in their corner that can keep M-1 from trying to F-them over.

    I dont see Fedor going to the UFC based on his “They tried to F-Me” comments so they only thing they would have to worry about would be him retiring or going to Japan. Plus they could do the PPV headlined by Overeem and Werdum with the co-main of Fedor vs Silva. Because of Silva style it should be a good figth for Fedor.

    If both Fedor and Werdum win then they have a good title fight story or if they Fedor wins and Werdum loses then they still have a good story for the rematch. If Fedor loses then….

  21. 45 Huddle says:

    1) What about Overeem? That is the big question people are forgetting to ask. He is their champion. He has more then 1 fight left on his contract. If they don’t give him Werdum or Fedor next…. He is likely to take their championship and run off to K-1 and never return. Not to mention they can’t keep on treating their champions so poorly.

    2) Fedor has lost much more appeal then people are admitting to in this discussion.

    3) Coker or Showtime are not bright for constantly making the same rookie mistakes over and over again. They continue to treat this thing like boxing. Heck, even their Aug card with Lawal is being announced as Lawal vs. TBD. That’s no way to sell a card.

    • Jonathan says:

      45 Huddle,

      Fedor has not lost nearly as much appeal as you think that he has. You hated his ever loving guts to begin with, so I am sure that he did not lose any more appeal to you.

      And we get it, you hate Strikeforce and think that they are idiots. We get it.

  22. Luke says:

    David are you a subscriber to Meltzer’s
    website? I’ve read and listened to Dave and
    have been a big fan for a long time, but I would
    agree with the folks who say his MMA analysis
    has been missing the point lately.

    The biggest one being the idea that UFC wil
    over-saturate the market and hurt its own
    business. I think thats been proven false
    over the past two years or so.

  23. […] about him to care about seeing him since the promotion he works for barely mentions him. Remember the MMA writers who screamed at others who suggested that Werdum should fight Overeem for the title instead of rematch with Fedor again? Six months later, memories of Fedor’s loss to Werdum do […]


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