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Quick thoughts on the fallout from UFC 115 (the end of Chuck Liddell’s career)
By Zach Arnold | June 12, 2010
Not the way Chuck Liddell wanted to go out, but if you’re going to go out then go out against one of the toughest men in the history of Mixed Martial Arts in Rich Franklin. Seriously, Rich Franklin is insanely tough as a human being.
I have no clue what UFC will do next with Rich Franklin as far as matchmaking is concerned.
Martin Kampmann just took out the man who could have supplanted Jon Fitch for third in the UFC Welterweight division. I’m not sure how a fight between Kampmann and Fitch turns out.
Earlier this week, the Sherdog radio team debated whether or not Tyson Griffin is on the first level or second level of UFC Lightweights. He’s officially on the second level and will struggle to become championship material.
The judge who gave Tyson Griffin the 29-28 score in his fight against Evan Dunham was Tony Weeks (boxing background). Weeks has been a subject of debate, including on Jordan Breen’s radio show, where Jordan has talked about how Weeks does well with stand-up scoring but when it comes to everything else, he can be shaky. When Bruce Buffer read through the 29-28 Griffin score fast, the look on Dunham’s face was priceless. He seriously thought for a second he might lose that fight on the score cards.
Mirko Cro Cop made sure to turn babyface in time to get a new pay day. Amazing how things change with him. Well, at least he’ll fight in Germany in November.
I’m still not sure if Carlos Condit is Spike TV level or PPV level, even after his win over Rory MacDonald.
Mac Danzig should be thanking Yves Lavigne for perhaps giving him one more chance in the UFC based on the finish of his fight with Matt Wiman. Is the heat on Yves totally fair? Debatable. (And based on the comments so far, nobody wants to give him a break.)
Admittedly, it’s hard for me to get too worked up about awful judging and referee work because there’s been so many bad performances lately. I feel like using the phrase ‘death by a 1,000 paper cuts’ to describe what’s going on right now. I have no answer as to how the promotions or athletic commissions can immediately improve the performance of both judges and referees, other than perhaps suspending referees in one state and having those suspensions upheld by all the other athletic commissions but that seems unlikely.
Topics: Media, MMA, UFC, Zach Arnold | 11 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |
“Is the heat on Yves totally fair? Debatable.”
Um there is nothing debatable about it that was one of the worst calls in the history of mma, sadly I can’t call it the worst because we saw an equally horrible call in Bellator a while back.
I honestly enjoyed almost all of thsi fight card a great deal.
The fight I personally enjoyed the least was the Thiago/Kampmann fight.
I knew Kampman could win, anf thought he would be better in the stand up,…but thought it would have been due to his superiority in the kicking department. I also would never have thought he would have dominated Thiago in the ground.
Boy, was I wrong on both counts.
As far as Chuck goes, he actually looked better in some ways,…and loocked worse in others.
I was pulling for Rich Franklin from the standpoint that he still has a bit more gas in his tank, but was verbally pulling for Chuck, because he kept sticking his head out and had NO head movment. None whatsover. His neck looked stiff as a board.
I was telling my friend who I saw the fights out with that Chuck was going to charge into a fist,…and that is exactly what he did.
I liked the added dimension in his strikes he used, and he looked strong in doing so. But he seemed to just stick his whole head out unprotected (not just his jaw), and I knew right before the KO what was going to happen.
Rich Franklin is a very, very tough SOB. I had no idea his forearm was broken. I thoght maybe he had injured his hand or wrist when I saw him shake his arm after the kick. More then kudos to him.
But if his corner would have really known between rounds, if it would have gone into the second round, the extent of his injury and let him continue, it would have been criminal.
Berry could and should have finished CroCop off when he had him down. I was pulling for Mirko out of sentimentality, and knew he could win,….but really thought that Berry was going to KO him.
But I did think he would have to do it early, as having all that muscle requires a great deal of extra oxygen and thought he would gas, which he kind of did.
“Is the heat on Yves totally fair? Debatable.”
LOL
You don’t stop a fight because one of the fighters tells you that his opponent is out. They should make a rule that fighters cannot talk to the ref during the fight imo. You see this kind of thing happen way too much when the ref should be making his own decisions without influence. Wiman may have got him anyway but at that point he was not out at all.
Players try to get calls from refs in all sports, it’s up to the ref to be aware of that and not fall for it. It’s not like they’re going to ban Kobe from asking for fouls.
Chuck did better than I thought he’d do, mainly because Rich broke his arm. It ended up being a very fun round due to pace. I like Rich to beat Forrest too.
I think Forrest and Rampage are the most obvious choices for Franklin. Both fights could be marketed well. Also all three of those guys are in the samw boat where they cant beat the top guys but will have fun fights with each other.
It was an OK show, but nobody expected much out of it so it’s not like it was a letdown.
I don’t think Franklin should be fighting top 5 guys since he has made it no secret he’s only fighting part time now. Franklin is a threat to anybody, so if he beats Rampage or Forrest then decides he’s going to go take 6 months off you’ve ruined a contender for nothing. Give him Tito or Randy or even a Wanderlei rematch.
No shocker tonight: all the “Chuck Liddell’s girlfriend has him p-whipped enough to eat healthy” talk was just a lame cover up to prove it was the same Chuck whose chin is gone and losing your beergut won’t help your chin. At least he really seems to be happy in his personal life and won’t go through hell like a lot of guys who wind up finished in their sport and have nothing. And he didn’t get totally embarrassed like in his last 2 losses so I hope for his sake he can be happy with that and move on from fighting. It would be sad to see him in Strikeforce or DREAM.
I’m sure the Barry fanboys will flood the internet with “Cro Cop is a pussy for going to the ground!” talk, but if you’re more 1D than freakin’ Cro Cop you are hopeless in surviving top level HWs. And “hopeless” certainly described Barry’s ground game.
I couldn’t believe Thiago lost to Kampmann. I thought that was the surest outcome of the entire show. It was a disappointing fight because I thought going in it would be FOTN, but it wasn’t even top 3.
Hopefully Yvel gets cut. He’s useless. They have Pat Barry to be their 1D kickboxer and Cro Cop to be 1 and 1/2 D, they don’t need him too. And Rothwell is one of the least interesting fighters on the roster so this was definitely the “go bake some Buffalo Wings” fight of the night for me.
I thought Condit was going to easily run through MacDonald, but MacDonald made it a fight. People are pissed at the stoppage (which, compared to the shitty reffing on the prelims it doesn’t even compare) but if it went to the score cards Condit still had the 29-28, if not 29-27 since honestly that should have been a 10-8 round if he was going to eat punches until the buzzer (although they rarely score those.) But MacDonald won me over by showing a ton of heart in that fight.
That judge is insane for scoring the fight for Griffin. That must mean the judge thought just because he defended standing RNC attempts by walking around with Dunham on his back and got some head drops that did nothing to stop Dunham working he won the rounds? Huh? And remember a few years ago when everybody was sure Griffin would have the spot currently held by Edgar? Man, that feels like a lifetime ago.
I don’t think anybody should be blaming Wiman for saying to Lavigne Danzig was out, I’ve seen it happen a ton of times and rolling to your side is usually the last thing a fighter does before going out. Of course it was a horrible call since clearly his arm was moving. But don’t compare this to Tom Brady asking for lame “roughing the passer” calls when a pinkie finger touches his helmet or Kobe calling for phantom fouls. It’s very fair to say “check if he’s out” to a guy wrapped up like that.
“…Rothwell is one of the least interesting fighters on the roster so this was definitely the “go bake some Buffalo Wings” fight of the night for me.”
Just me speaking about how I felt about this fight: I enjoyed it much more then the Thiago/Kampman fight. And I was pulling for Thiago! I was pretty sure Thiago would would, but as I said before, I thought Kampmann could win, but not the way he did.
But back to Rothwell/Yvel-The first 2 round I really enjoyed, as they were constantly trying to pound each other.
Was it pretty?
No, but the were very active. the third round slowed down a great deal ,but they were both pretty much gassed, but Rothwell in particular, even though tired, was still trying and still getting hits in on Yvel,…granted nowhere near as powerful as the early part of the fight.
“That judge is insane for scoring the fight for Griffin.’
Oh yeah, I agree with you 100% here.
I wonder what fight he was watching?
Don’t ever let this clown get near to judging an MMA fight again.
“But MacDonald won me over by showing a ton of heart in that fight.”
Ditto.
And not to mention after the fight he even had the honestly to say “it was a good stop, he was kicking my ass (at the end)” Humility and honesty from a VERY young man who probably has a great future ahead of him if he stays healthy.
Condit also showed great composure for someone who was, for the most part controlled for A good part of the fight. He still looked good, it was just that MacDonald looked SO good.
A good, hard fought win for Condit.
This was an awesome card.
– The highlight for me was the CroCop-Barry fight. This is the kind of drama that no other sport can deliver. This is why I love MMA: the skill, the ferocity, the unpredictability, the heart, the emotion and the respect.
– Condit-Macdonald was amazing. I’m really impressed with both of them. Macdonald now has a chance to slow his momentum a little bit and take on some easier opponents for a more gradual rise through the ranks. For Condit, I see one more win (or two) being followed by a title shot.
– Franklin is such an excellent fighter. He belongs in the LHW Top 10 and I think he has it in him to make one more title run.
– Rothwell-Yvel was entertaining, I mean, that’s the kind of fight you tend to get with the heavies. Don’t cut them just yet.
– Kampmann-Thiago was disappointing. I’ve been pretty excited about Thiago, seeing him as the only potential threat to GSP at WW. Now I’m back to feeling there’s no good challengers for GSP.
Future match-up ideas:
1. Franklin vs Griffin for the #5 spot at LHW. Winner is one more win away from a title shot. (The other contender can be determined by Lil Nog vs the winner of Jones-Matyushenko?)
2. Kampmann vs the winner of Fitch-Alves for the next shot at the WW title.
3. Condit vs Hathaway for the #9 spot at WW. Depending on the state of the weight class by then, the winner could be next in line for a title shot.
4. CroCop has a lot of options. I’m not ready to put him against killers just yet. I’d like to see one more good performance against a lower-ranked fighter – Rothwell fits that bill. CroCop vs Rothwell for the #18 rank at HW.
5. Yvel vs Barry anyone? Loser gets cut, and we end up with one less 1-dimensional kickboxer in the UFC.
“Not the way Chuck Liddell wanted to go out, but if you’re going to go out then go out against one of the toughest men in the history of Mixed Martial Arts in Rich Franklin. “
Or Shogun.
But at least now I suppose the point is solidified and no longer arguable.
Although I suppose anything always really is.
“Well, Rich Franklin is a good fighter. Losing to ace doesn’t prove anything”
Liddell getting KOed changes nothing. Franklin isn’t a title contender after that. Liddell probably isn’t retired after that.
Cro-Cop winning surprises me because I thought he was so shot, he could lose to a guy like Berry. Instead people are acting like Cro-Cop should reenter the top ten. Maybe Pat Berry just isn’t very good?
Kampmann winning isn’t a big surprise to me. Thiago’s record isn’t bad (better than Kos) but they were gonna make him run the gauntlet of fringe contenders before he got a title shot since he’s a non-anglophone Brazilian. That gauntlet caught up to him long before the title shot. Kampmann and Condit are still the same guys as before, so I guess we should just have them fight again? Makes sense to me. Look, Daley’s out of the UFC, Diego Sanchez looks irrelevant, Anthony Johnson probably can’t make 205 right now….what else do you do with these guys? You don’t put them in with John Hathaway and screw up that guy’s potential money making possibilities for you.