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UFC’s James Toney ploy
By Zach Arnold | March 3, 2010
A week after Toney was complaining to Fight Hype about UFC offering a low-ball contract that excluded him from fighting and complaining about Dan Goossen not getting the job done for him in terms of booking him in boxing fights, Toney has signed the contract UFC offered him for five fights. No more boxing for Toney? If UFC did waive the “no boxing” clause in Toney’s contract, how will they explain to Anderson Silva that he can’t go box Roy Jones?
As for why UFC signed Toney, Kevin Iole’s article on Yahoo quotes White as saying that Toney was talking with Strikeforce about signing to fight Herschel Walker.
In the UFC press release about Toney’s signing, White says the following:
“A lot of pro boxers have made a lot of noise about how they would do in mixed martial arts, but nobody on the level of a James Toney has been willing to back up his talk,” said White. “He’s a legend whose boxing record speaks for itself, and he’s a guy who I’ve got a lot of respect for. Now he’s got every intention of matching that success in MMA, and I think he’s got the right attitude – let’s see if he can do it.”
Kermit Cintron was one of those boxers who had an actual background that could have translated. But I guess he wasn’t one of boxing’s biggest stars in the last 25 years, so that wouldn’t qualify him for UFC.
Steve Cofield appropriately calls it for what it is — the UFC gets into the freak show biz. AOL Fanhouse takes a look at Toney’s possible opponents. If he does fight Rampage Jackson, the irony of all ironies will happen — Juanito Ibarra will be back in the picture.
Topics: Boxing, Media, MMA, UFC, Zach Arnold | 26 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |
Actually, word has it Toney’s contract is non-exclusive. At the very least Toney will be allowed to continue boxing. He’s even said boxing will remain his priority.
Dana’s like Vince McMahon, always trying for that elusive Sportscenter moment at the expense of show quality
This is interesting.
I think Toney is angling to get a buzz and convince one of the Klitschko bros to fight him (read: pay him) in Germany.
UFC could have just gotten itself another draw. If Toney is motivated, steps up to the challenge and is booked right.
Will Toney end up on a potential 4.17 show?
Who will UFC put him in there with? A Chris Tushcherer seems like a good first fight if you want Toney to win. There are several guys to put him in there with if you want him to lose. You have the 50/50 build fights where you could put him against Chuck or Forrest. Or do you make Anderson Silva happy and let Toney replace Roy Jones Jr?
There’s a big money fight with Kimbo if both he and Toney win their next fights. If Toney can put together a couple of wins you have a mega title fight.
Also, Zach, I thought Cintron decided not to do UFC because he’d make more money in boxing?
The UFC issued a grandstand public challenge for pro boxers who wanted to fight in the UFC, saying that Sean Sherk or BJ Penn would beat any of them. Kermit Cintron took the UFC up on the offer publicly, only for the UFC to say that Cintron is a no-name. Cintron was actually one of the Big Four “champions” at that time in boxing’s loaded 147-pound weight class and also has an amateur wrestling background (at least in high school, but still more than Toney).
“Chris Tushcherer seems like a good first fight if you want Toney to win”
Tuchscherer would be an AWFUL choice if they want Toney to win. Chris is gigantic and his preferred method of attack is ground & pound. Tuchscherer is one of the guys who they should put Toney up against if they want to embarrass him, not build him up.
If they want Toney to win, guys like Kimbo & Paul Buentello, are their best bet.
The last quotes from Dana make it clear to me; Toney after getting rebuked went to Strikeforce/CBS and offered himself as a fight for Walker. He went back to Dana with what they were going to pay him (a lot more than 25/25 I’ll bet) and Dana went and signed him to keep him out of Strikeforce and to keep that fight from happening. Smart move; He can use Toney against Kimbo, who’s fight with Mitrione mysteriously went missing from UFC 113’s website yesterday. That fight will sell like hotcakes, and since they’ve had a dearth of big fights recently, it works out for everyone.
I think you’re right about Toney. He wants the fight with Kimbo which he’s convinced he’ll win. Then with that win under his belt (or even a loss), the publicity will have gotten his name out there to such an extent that either of the two big ol’ Ukranians will have to make that fight because someone like HBO will demand it.
I forgot about the Olympics 15 years ago. You’re right. Of course he passed a test for that.
Ivan, I’m one of the minority who know who Kermit Cintron is and his wrestling background. I’d love to see a guy like him come into MMA. The word I heard at the time was that Dana wasn’t willing to pay him whet he wanted. Kermit makes a lot more money boxing than he would have in UFC. From a business standpoint, Dana was right. Because Cintron wouldn’t get you the publicity on ESPN (maybe it would since he headlined their failed PPV) or Sports Illustrated and the mainstream press.
Cintron wanted boxing money which is a lot more than even Lesnar makes. Dana was going to pay boxing money for a top boxer to come in and get beat.
I bet Toney gets the Lesnar treatment. Hard fight see if he wins it.
Tushcherer is a perfect opponent for Toney. He’s slow, flat footed and doesn’t have good takedowns. Yeah he can pound you on the ground but he has to get there first. Toney is going to KO someone immediately with a 1-2 or he’s not going to win most likely. You get him in the last 2 minutes of a round and he’s going to need a blood transfusion. But he’s got sweet movement and beautiful punches. Wearing small gloves against an opponent with no head movement (the entire MMA HW division fits that bill) and you’re looking at Mercer/Sylvia II.
Damn, is Cofield growing a sack? Is Zuffa going to pull his credentials now? Would an athletic commission sanction Toney vs Rampage?
Remember, it wasn’t too long ago that Nevada wouldn’t sanction Butterbean vs Mark Hunt. Then again, money talks and Vegas is Zuffaville.
Yes, Strikeforce signing Herschel Walker was also a pathetic move, but not quite as pathetic as this move. Why? Well, does Strikeforce have a history of publicly ripping washed-up football players like the UFC does with washed-up boxers? Has Herschel Walker tested positive for steroids (and on two separate occasions)? Toney has. Does Herschel Walker weigh 100 pounds more than he did during his prime? Toney does. And most importantly, does Herschel Walker have slurred speech that continues to get worse every single year because of cumulative brain damage from taking far too many hits to the head over the years? Toney does.
Has Herschel Walker ever had a steroids test? Let’s be fair here, Ivan.
Walker and Tony are both freak show type fights in that they’re getting an invite to compete in the highest level of MMA right off the bat. But they’re both also great athletes. So what the heck, let’s watch them fight. Walker unfortunately got in there with a guy who was wearing a toe tag. Hopefully next time out he gets a challenge. Toney will likely get a pretty serious challenge in his first fight.
Besides competing in the Olympics, the NFL *did* have a drug testing policy through most of his career. It wasn’t necessarily strong, mind you, but it existed. Kinda like the current ones in place with the athletic commissions.
“Has Herschel Walker ever had a steroids test? Let’s be fair here, Ivan.”
Uh, wasn’t he in the Olympics? lol
Comparing Toney with Walker is horrid. Toney is still at a high level in boxing and has reached the top of the most competitive combat sport in the world. Walker has trained for 3 months at a fight camp and did TKD for 20 years. Toney has been a world champion in 5 different weight classes. Walker played football. Toney is known for being a savvy boxer with good defense and a hard head. Walker is known for bobsledding.
Toney coming into the UFC now is nothing at all like a guy with no real fight experience coming into Strikeforce, and certainly not worse. Let’s not allow Zuffa-hate to cloud our vision to the point that we are no longer capable of being honest/rational/sensible. James Toney is certainly not what he once was, but he is still the most accomplished standup fighter to ever set foot in the Octagon, and anyone who can’t take him down is going to go to sleep quite quickly.
Ivan, it is not the UFC’s job to decide when fighters are too old to fight; that is what the commission does. Coleman and Couture are both still fighting and are much older than Toney (Liddell is almost Toney’s age and can’t even take a single punch without going down, but is still fighting too). Further, to say Dana is a hypocrite isn’t exactly breaking news; he has no credibility at all, so why is this any worse than any of the dozens of other times he has either outright lied or gone against his word? He is a promoter, and expecting him to be trustworthy at this point would make no sense. He rips washed-up boxers when they don’t sign, but praises them when they do. He rips on other companies for using old fighters, but puts Coleman in a main event. He calls Fedor a fat slob but offers him millions of dollars per fight. He says Fedor has never beaten anyone then calls Nog the greatest HW in mma history. What do you expect from him? lol.
“Ivan, it is not the UFC’s job to decide when fighters are too old to fight; that is what the commission does.”
The commissions are supposed to do that, but that’s entirely separate from actually doing it (cough, Evander Holyfield, cough). Holyfield and Toney have something unfortunate in common, which is that they both suffer from slurred speech (which is getting progressively worse in both cases) as a result of brain damage from taking too many blows to the head for too many years.
Dana has always said that Boxing and MMA are two different and seperate sports. Well here he is just rubbishing that claim.
I think Dana has a real passion for the sport of boxing, it’s only in every press conferance where he complains about how messed up boxing is. I think Dana respects and admires Toney, and see’s a world class boxer who can’t get a fight in the boxing world. But the UFC isn’t a charity, it isn’t a shelter for guys in other sports who can’t find work.
I think Dana’s love for boxing is a real conflict of interest and a deciding factor in this move. He keeps saying that MMA and boxing are different sports, now he’s just undermined that and in my opinion undermined his own promotion.
If he wants to help out the sport of boxing, then make his own promotion, don’t start a charity in a different sport.
If a former Jui Jitsu champion crosses over into MMA, no one screams freak show. MMA organizations send out excited press releases any time they sign a world class wrestler to their roster. Why is it a “freak show” signing if the UFC picked up a former boxing champion? Is he not a specialist in one of the mixed martial arts? It’s not like he’s walking into the octagon without any fighting knowledge at all. It’s not like he spent his entire life playing a completely unrelated sport like football or baseball. I don’t get how this is worse than Walker or Conseco fighting for Strikeforce.
Why is it a “freak show” signing if the UFC picked up a former boxing champion?
The last time James Toney won a major title in boxing that wasn’t stripped from him a few days later for a positive steroids test was 2003. Toney started boxing and just over the MMA lightweight limit. Toney has been out of shape and chasing paydays for years, showing zero regard for his own performances in his own given sport. Toney hasn’t won a deserved decision in boxing (outside his fight with the scrubby Matt Greer) since 2005. James Toney was on ESPN Outside the Lines on January 21, 2007, where he essentially admitted that he was using hormone therapy (the reason he tested positive for roids against Ruiz) because repeated traumatic brain injury had led to Hormone Deficincy Syndrome.
Toney is no longer a top 50 heavyweight, has brain damage, doesn’t train, has pointed guns at his managers, torn up gyms, assaulted numerous people, and abuses steroids. In short, this is a freak show, every bit the freakshow Mercer/Sylvia was. At least in that case, Mercer was a legitimate heavyweight.
And his first manager was a drug dealer who was murdered so that adds another level of shadiness to him.
James Toney was a drug dealer himself. He readily admits to having sold crack in high school.
It has nothing to do with his boxing acumen and everything to do with Toney as a person as well as his condition right now.
If Toney is still scheduling boxing matches, is there a chance we never see him in the cage? Could White have simply tied him up to keep him off Strikeforce broadcasts while he awaits their demise?
They’ll have to at least offer him fights in order to keep a valid contract. You can’t just sign someone to a 5 fight contract and then never offer fights.
Maybe they keep him tied up long enough to hurt, and then pay him to walk away.
Also I’m trying to visualize Toney in the cage with his belly and barely 5’10” … not pretty.
I doubt though that Toney has it in his contract that the UFC can wait 12 months to offer a bout. The guy is 41; he’s looking for action right now. Goosen is smarter than that and not looking to screw his guy.
I think people are trying to rationalize it by making it anything other than what it is.
This is an amazing development.
I believe that they should give Toney a bad matchup for him, get him beat and then release him. Keeping this slurring, half-crazed guy around is not good for business. They’ve signed him so it’s too late to re-think it. Now just make the best of it by getting him on a show ASAP, try and get him beat, cut him and move on.
This is not a smart move by the UFC, imo. There is too much that can go wrong.
He has a Kimbo fight written all over him. That’s safe for the UFC because nobody has any respect for Kimbo so if Toney were to beat him they can deflect boxing purists crowing about a boxer beating an MMA fighter by saying “Well, he sucks anyway so we don’t care.” And that fight will do pretty good, which means he’ll be kept around at least until he loses 3 times. They never say no to money.