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UFC 107 (12/12 Memphis at FedEx Forum)
By Zach Arnold | December 12, 2009
Dark matches
- Welterweights (170 pounds): Kevin Burns vs. TJ Grant
- Welterweights (170 pounds): DaMarques Johnson vs. Edgar Garcia
- Middleweights (185 pounds): Rousimar Palhares vs. Lucio Linhares
- Welterweights (170 pounds): Johny Hendricks vs. Ricardo Funch
- Lightweights (155 pounds): Matt Wiman vs. Shane Nelson
- Middleweights (185 pounds): Alan Belcher vs. Wilson Gouveia
Main card
- Heavyweights (up to 265 pounds): Paul Buentello vs. Stefan Struve
- Lightweights (155 pounds): Kenny Florian vs. Clay Guida
- Welterweights (170 pounds): Jon Fitch vs. Mike Pierce
- Heavyweights (up to 265 pounds): Frank Mir vs. Cheick Kongo
- UFC Lightweight Title match: BJ Penn (champion) vs. Diego Sanchez (challenger)
Jon Fitch continues to not finish opponents off in UFC bouts
Which leads to Jordan Breen pointing out the obvious:
Fitch’s situation is unfortunate. UFC don’t want a GSP rematch, don’t want him to be contenders, so opponents are tough guys with no Q value
Love the stream of @’s I got. Don’t you all remember when you flooded Joe Silva’s inbox to see Fitch on the main card? Tsk tsk bandwagoners.
Unlike Yushin Okami (who got finished by Chael Sonnen), it’s hard to see anyone finishing Fitch off outside of St. Pierre. Glass ceiling…
Topics: Media, MMA, UFC, Zach Arnold | 76 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |
Mir will continue to have his doubters until he proves a couple of things. The biggest question is whether he can hang with a top wrestler. So what are we waiting for? Let’s see him against Carwin. It’s a great way to set up a Lesnar showdown for both fighters.
In my opinion, Mir will submit Carwin inside the first round. But we won’t know until we see the fight.
Comparing a 6’3″ 265lb Frank Mir to a 6’5″ 250lb Alistair Overeem… how dare you Gaijin!
Nothing would surprise me from anyone at this point, Mir included. That said, most assuredly innocent until proven guilty.
Oh, credit to fightlinker (you won’t hear that often from me) for daring to tell the truth and say that the Semmy clone has some serious bugs to be worked out. Dude fights like a guy who has no idea he’s 6’11”. Why no push kicks? Where are the high knees? Why let yourself be clinched like that? How was Buentello getting so close to you and landing?
Yes how “f*ckin retarded” of me to compare a young guy that cut from 230 to 205, a move that didn’t allow him to put on any muscle mass to a guy who’s always been a doughy 245-250lbs who magically changes his body composition and looks like a jacked up beast in a 6 month period.
Let alone realize it took Overeem 2 years to get to 250 and add 25lbs. Frank Mir magically LOST a great deal of fat mass (requiring negative caloric balances) AND GAINED muscle mass impressively (requiring large positive caloric balances)…
I read in the Honolulu Advertiser (not exactly a well-known mma source) that Penn was winning 40-36 on all the cards at the time of the stoppage. That is why mma judging sucks–how the fuck was the first round not 10-8? He dropped him and almost finished him. What does one have to do to earn a 10-8 round? It is preposterous that a round in which one fighter is so dominant is scored equivalently to Jon Fitch lying on top of a guy for 5 minutes doing nothing. Makes me sick.
I had it at 40-34 on my scorecard, with R1 and R2 being 10-8
I don’t know where you’re getting 2 years from Gaijin. Check the dates between Overeem’s fight with SF and the first Hari fight.
Nov 2007 – 225 lbs
Dec 2008 – 255 lbs
That’s 30 pounds of pure lean muscle with veins within veins, and unless my understanding of calendar dates is off, that’s only 13 months.
It’s difficult to see exactly how much muscle Mir put on, he’s still soft in places. It’s a 20 pound difference from UFC 100, but he had more definition in the Lesnar fight (he purposely came in lighter than usual), so it’s not 20 pounds of pure lean muscle.
It’s significantly harder to tell these things with pudgy HWs, as opposed to guys that are already shredded. I’m not ruling steroid use out, just fleshing the situation out.
1. Penn vs. Sanchez Round 1 is a definitive 10-8 round, and I’m not one of those people who gives out 10-8 rounds very easily.
2. Frank Mir and Overeem are two very different cases. Overeem’s head is getting bigger, which is a tell tail sign that he is taking something. Mir might be taking something, but there isn’t any huge signs yet.
3. Expect Penn vs. Maynard is Gray wins in January. It should be a victory for Penn, but it is a legit title defense.
4. Frank Mir’s performance was impressive because of the way he beat Kongo. Nobody has done it like that in the UFC. Mir is the #3 Heavyweight in the world. His wins over Lesnar, Nogueira, and Kongo cement that.
5. I like the idea of Mir vs. Carwin. It makes sense. The winner of Cain/Nogueira can fight Lesnar next, and the winner of Mir/Carwin gets him after that. If Lesnar is out even longer, the winners of those two fights can fight for the title.
6. Fitch still struggles with his striking. I don’t think he will ever be able to pick it up enough to beat a guy like GSP.
7. I am against Penn vs. Koscheck unless Penn vacates the Lightweight belt and becomes a full time Welterweight. See Silva/Griffin for a reason why…. It kills the division when that happens.
8. Sanchez vs. Florian 2 makes sense right now.
9. I bet Gouveia gets cut….
10. The idea of the UFC going out of the company to get somebody to challenge BJ Penn is not a good idea. First, they have to be able to build up a fighter first, so an immediate title fight doesn’t work. And as we saw with Cro Cop, that always creates issues. Second, there is nobody outside of the UFC that really poses a risk to Penn. Aoki would get wrecked. Alvarez and Kawajiri are no different the Sanchez, Stevenson, and Sherk.
Overall, it was a really good event. The first time in 2 to 3 months that a UFC event had that “big event” feel to it.
Good point Ice – had a brain cramp thinking from Nov 07-now, forgetting he was up there by Dec 08. Regardless, I’m pretty sure he’s artificially aided.
On the otherhand, I never said I believed Mir was juiced, I was just musing that he’s had some pretty insanely impressive gains in a short time and looks aestetically different in the build department.
(Oops posted before I was done) And no one made a peep about it.
God gave Mir some good fricking genes IMO. Thats why he cant wipe that smirk off of his face.
He’s always such a big guy, I wonder if he could even make 205?
Also its just about time for BJ to head back up. Nothing left to prove at 155. I would rather see that than watch him loitering around the same weight class long after the job is done like anderson silva.
There is something to be said for staying at a weight class and dominating everyone and becoming a legend that way. Hopkins and Calzaghe did it at their respective weight classes until the end of their careers. Dana would be stupid to let BJ go up and fight GSP again because both are huge draws and stars, and there will be negative business results no matter who wins, me thinks. If GSP dominates him again (hopefully this time without cheating), BJ looks like he has to “settle” for 155. If BJ dominates GSP, then Georges looks bad for losing to a much smaller fighter (GSP walks around at almost 200 while BJ I would guess is around 170 tops).
I want to see BJ beat Maynard, Edgar, Kawajiri, Aoki, Tyson Griffin, and Alvarez before we can say he cleaned out the division. What exactly did Diego do to become the number 1 contender at 155? Beating Guida and Stevenson?
I want to see Diego against Florian 2–I think that would be a very intriguing match and I would probably favor Kenny at this point in time. Sherk vs Diego would be interesting too, as would Diego v Tyson Griffin.
I’m sad that Ivan hasn’t posted what he is outraged about at this event yet. 🙁
A David M,
I agree Diego has plenty of matches @ 155. In fact I’m pretty sure he could beat everyone else @ 155, which along with him having been as close to a contender @ 170 as possible without actually getting it, and BJ having already smashed all the other obvious top dogs was why he was a contender so quick IMO.
I wouldn’t mind seeing BJ beat Maynard, Edgar, Kawajiri, Aoki, Tyson Griffin, and Alvarez either. But thats all thats gonna happen. There’s not really a lot more to prove by beating every person who walks the earth @ 155 or waiting around for guys who aren’t even in the same organization.
As far as his 170 prospects, I think he might do better this time than last time.
He apparently has a new “relaxed” attitude. The total spanking he put on the 155 division must also have been chicken soup for his self esteem. And there are plenty of good matches for him @ 170 (Hughes, thiagos, Fitches, etc) before he commits to a make or break GSP 3 match.
I dont think he needs to vacate just this second, but he’s getting there. Beating every last guy at 155 is proving the point beyond necessary and would leave the division in shambles.
Let the rest of the 155 division keep a little bit of their dignity.
I was concerned when I heard that Mir was bulking up, but he didn’t look like he’d lost anything in the transition. As noted above, he’s muscled, but he’s not sharply muscled like some of the guys who either routinely test positive (you know who) at Heavyweight or who routinely have people asking questions about how exactly a human being gets to look like that (Lesnar, Couture (only one of whom I actually think is taking something illegal so far)).
I’m not really sure how the win over Kongo cements Mir as the anything. Kongo was on the bottom side of the “contender” bubble in UFC, and it has been well established that the UFC heavyweight division, like every other one in the business isn’t what it could be (or maybe it is what it could be, it’s just not very deep).
Kongo: not a top 10 HW, bubble 10 in the shallow UFC HW division. Beating him fast, beating him up and then submitting him was good, but just beating him wouldn’t have been enough, and I’m loathe to take the “quality” of execution in a win into account, because 12 months down the line that fight is just another number.
1, 5-9. Agree.
2. Agree enough, just musing as I said.
3. No argument – they’ve got nothing else.
4. Mir was “impressive” in finishing Kongo, but Kongo’s not a great fighter…that was a puff fight really. He sold it well, he looked good, but Kongo’s like the 18th best hw in the world. Not so impressive on that end…and I really don’t get the whole Lesnar “win cementing it”. He’s totally bootstrapping off Lesnar’s performance post that fight – I’m not sure how much tapping a greener than hell rookie who has improved exponentially beyond anyone’s expectations since then, makes that victory very exceptional.
10. Total agreement – especially b/c all of those outside guys (Kawajiri, Alvarez) are probably not even as good of mma wrestlers as Edgar, Griffin and Sherk (and probably Sanchez). I mean Eddie’s got some mean hands, but he’s kinda chinny on top of that and if you think you’re gonna stand and bang with BJ when he’s not afraid of your takedown – you’re in heaps of trouble.
About the aversion to weight-class jumping because it causes contenders to be eliminated, 2 points:
1. It doesn’t have to be that way. Smart match-making can avoid eliminating contenders.
For instance, I think Anderson Silva, in between MW title defenses, should maintain his status among the Top 5 LHW. That way, should Machida vacate the throne by losing or moving up to HW, Silva will be ready to jump in.
T
(Help! Accidentally posted early)
About the aversion to weight-class jumping because it causes contenders to be eliminated, 2 points:
1. It doesn\\\’t have to be that way. Smart match-making can avoid eliminating contenders.
For instance, I think Anderson Silva, in between MW title defenses, should maintain his status among the Top 5 LHW. That way, should Machida vacate the throne by losing or moving up to HW, Silva will be ready to jump in.
The way to achieve that balance is to have Silva take on fighters coming off losses to the reigning champion, like Evans after he lost his title. If Rua loses to Machida, Silva vs Rua would be an awesome fight.
2. Sometimes it is desirable to eliminate contenders, or to put it more accurately, it is good to raise the bar and make the prospect of a title shot more distant for certain fighters.
My bias is against rematches in general, and especially when it comes to title shots. At WW for example, I am reluctant to see Koscheck, Alves or Fitch get another shot at GSP. I would rather have them pick each other off until only one remains, assuming no other contenders emerge in the meantime. I feel the same way about Henderson and Marquardt at MW, which is why I strongly supported that match-up.
In sum, I don\\\’t mind Penn eliminating Koscheck from contention (while one of Fitch and Alves eliminates the other, sparing us yet another rematch). The flipside is that, if Koscheck beats Penn, there can be no denying him a title shot, and even rematch-haters like myself will have to accept it.
68 posts and no one has mentioned that Chael Sonnen did not in fact finish Yushin Okami?
I don’t get the push against a Kos-GSP rematch???
I think that could be a completely valid rematch and closer fight than people are making it out to be…I think GSP goes in the favourite, but he’s going to against everyone at 170lbs. And if I recall the fight correctly, it basically hinged on GSP’s defense of a takedown in one round and then getting his own after that.
And while GSP has improved a lot since then, Kos’ striking has greatly improved and he’s still the strong wrestler he’s always been. I’d rather see that fight than GSP-Hardy, which is a total joke on the level of BJ-Diego in terms of earning the shot AND the total destruction that’s going to follow when they actually do lock up.
@ ilostmydog
He’s busy stalking Kevin Iole
Wait, 45Huddle is back? So forever is only 2 weeks? Time flies.
1) So why did you want Fedor-Lesnar if bringing in an outside fighter for an automatic title shot is a bad thing?
2) There’s nobody in the UFC who poses a threat to him either. And fighting legit top 10 Lightweights, regardless if they get destroyed by him or not, is far more interesting than pretending like Gray Maynard is worthy of fighting Penn. Nobody in the division has that much of a connection with the fans anyway, so it’s not like the fan interest would be that much worse.
Zach…your post says Chael finished Okami? I remember it being a relatively uneventful decision.
Ooops teeh blaeehh beat me to it. Delete my post plz.
Mark,
I honestly doubt many of the guys outside of the UFC would be able to deal with Maynard’s size or wrestling. I think of Eddie Alvarez as a Roger Huerta-type fighter and I just don’t see him dealing with Gray unless he’s able to lay some leather on him without getting bullied to the mat time and again.
You might build more excitement with these outside guys, but the result will be Diego-esque. With Gomi on a steady decline, maybe Kawajiri has the jaw to land a lucky bomb on BJ, but I really don’t see anyone else posing even the remotest challenge to him at 155 in the near future.
Yes, because their lightweights are really Welterweights since the Japanese don’t cut weight the same way Amerians do.
But, regardless if they’d be beaten or not, if you’re going to bury the whole division saying Penn will officially clean it out with one more win and you aren’t keen on him going back to Welterweight, then it’s time to bring in the top 10 ranked fighters of the division. Not co-promote with DREAM, a far-fetched idea, but go out of your way to get them to satisfy Penn since his camp is calling Aoki out. It is that or GSP III for him.