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Dan Henderson on his MMA legacy and what’s in store for his future
By Zach Arnold | December 11, 2009
I’m encourgaging you to read this 3,300-word article I wrote this morning on Dan Henderson and comments he made on a Sherdog radio interview last Wednesday:
“You know I guess occasionally I do look back and say, shit, I have you know fought this guy and that guy, I guess I fought quite a few guys who are considered legends now, but honestly I fight for the challenge of things and I get up for the challenge and it’s exciting to me to maybe be the underdog again or it’s exciting to me to be really have to change my game plan up for this guy or for that guy and to be really careful when I’m out there fighting against certain guys and I love it and I love my job and you know I obviously have been in the sport and been active in the sport longer than most people and this is one reason I kind of held out for a bit longer on this contract you know just because you know I feel like I’ve definitely helped this sport grow and just because I’m not a loud-mouth shit-talker doesn’t mean I shouldn’t get paid you know the way I should compared to some of these other guys that are loud-mouthed and that I would beat up. So you know it is what it is and I’m actually quite happy with the way things went down and if Dana pushed for it, I really thank him for it.”
In the article linked above, Henderson talks about what negotiations with UFC were like and what kind of a deal Clinch Gear has with Strikeforce. Some very interesting, candid comments.
Topics: Media, MMA, StrikeForce, UFC, Zach Arnold | 36 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |
Zach: please please please fix your use of quotation marks in that article. You can’t just open a quote in one paragraph and close it three paragraphs later. It’s jarring, confusing and likely to lead to people misunderstanding who said what.
The better comparison is probably De La Hoya and Arum’s split back in 2000.
Its interesting to see how opinions have shifted with regards to Tito. I think between that PPV’s middling performance and Couture’s less than stellar ratings, people may in fact be realizing that MMA stars burn out a little differently from wrestlers. Its almost as if the fans have to buy into these athletes as being legitimate fighters in order to really care, and that they can’t just be repackaged with a mask or funny gimmick. Its almost like…a real sport. Kinda like boxing or kickboxing, in fact.
Okay, so I always have to push that, but still, my point is the same. They need guys like Henderson to give their promotion and the fighters in it more juice with fans, because fights amongst themselves aren’t all that likely to really do it, “building properly” or not. Hopefully we get some decent fights out of this, Henderson gets paid, and it forces the payscale to increase across the board in this sport. That’s the best case scenario.
Use the contact form and send me an e-mail re: the quotes.
@Alan: How much building can Strikeforce do on a 39-year-old man? I’m not saying they shouldn’t get all the big stars they can, but shouldn’t they focus on young up-and-comers over guys on their way down?
How much building can Strikeforce do on a 39-year-old man?
They aren’t building Dan Henderson, obviously. Nor is that the intent, any more than the UFC’s promotion of Randy Couture, Chuck Liddell, or Tito Ortiz is intended to ride those guys to PPV glory for another 5 years. A win over Henderson gives a guy more legitimacy than wins over everyone Strikeforce previously had signed combined at either 205 or 185.
But wait, lemme guess: “that’s a failure of their ability to promote”, right? As if public acceptance is merely a product of excellent shilling. Henderson not only offers an excellent comparison point for the guys SF and EXC had been running the last couple years, but he himself is a commodity as an elite fighter. People never remember that last part.
Henderson is gonna make the same roll of Matt Lindland on Strikeforce. He can forge or destroy new talents like: Jacare, Mayhem Miller, Mousasi or even Tim Kenedy.
I dont understand UFC right now:
The contract people like ¿Renzo Gracie, Phil Baroni, Tito Ortiz? And they fire, Jake Rockold, Brock Larson, Roger Huerta.
And the case of Henderson is amazing, he is one of the starters of this sports, and is the only still on the mix.
I think the UFC has to change his market model. And begin not tied your fighters like slaves or shit.
hendo´s been fired..the clash of pensioners remains on ufc 107. thanks dana.
“I feel like I’ve definitely helped this sport grow and just because I’m not a loud-mouth shit-talker doesn’t mean I shouldn’t get paid you know the way I should compared to some of these other guys that are loud-mouthed and that I would beat up.”
Whole lot of doesn’t-get-it in just a few words.
He so doesn’t get it, he’s got a contract with someone else for what it seems is more money. Stupid Dan Henderson, not fighting Nate Marqhardt for less money and no actual guarantee of a title fight! 5-6 dudes on the internet are gonna be heated.
I’m proud of Henderson. He seems like a good guy and he is definitely one of the best fighters in MMA, both presently and in terms of his legacy. His move to Strikeforce will have all kinds of ripple effects that will improve the sport for the fans, and for the fighters. I wish him all the best!
Absolutelly horrible comparison there Zach, i\’m also baffled by the idea fact that you hold Hendo so high in your regards when basically he\’s a less popular version of Rich Franklin.
Hendo is not a superstar and isn\’t worth the money he wants, I don\’t care what he\’s accomplished or thinks he’s accomplished. You are worth what you make, this guy is simply a middle of the road name that is getting his nuts hugged because he\’s going to SF just like guys got ultra popular the moment they signed with Affliction.
To in anyway compare the greatest prowrestler of all-time and an international superstar like Bret “The Hitman” Hart to Dan \”No Draw\” Henderson is laughable in everyway possible.
Zach, this is not a good comparison at all. Dan Henderson is not even close to the stature of Bret Hart, especially on a global basis.
Despite the fact wrestling is so-called fake, the Hitman is a true international superstar, who executed wrestling moves to absolute perfection. As a longtime wrestling fan, Bret and Kurt Angle are the last of their breed and an absolute treat to watch on TV. They\’re also good on the mic and carry a charisma that\’s obviously lacking with Dan Henderson.
Sadly, Bret Hart was already past his expiry date with the WWF ATTITUDE era during the 1990s, hence the ill-fated Montreal Screwjob and his move to WCW. The ironic part was the fact, WCW was already beginning to crumble when they signed Brett Hart.
With Pro-Wrestling, you can put millions of dollars toward marketing a popular wrestler, like John Cena, while expecting a measure of return due. This is due to the fact in-ring results are fixed or predetermined. In addition, wrestlers are not only valued by their ability to wrestle in the wring, but their ability to work the mic and incite the crowd. We all know Hulk Hogan was a horrible wreslter, but he had the \”IT\” factor and was great on the mic. Dan Henderson never had that \”IT\” factor.
As compared to MMA, any given fighter can decrease their value with the masses due to a losing streak or loss of a title. Talk is cheap if you can\’t back it up in the octagon.
Henderson was given TWO TITLE SHOTS in the UFC but failed to capitalize on them. He was given EVERY OPPORTUNITY to succeed in the UFC; a lot more than your typical average fighter. And it became pretty obvious with a majority of fans & Zuffa that a 2nd fight with Anderson Silva would end up as another loss.
As much as I like Henderson and respect his contribution to MMA, his loss to the UFC will cause a little ripple amongst mainstream fans or PPV buy rates.
“He so doesn’t get it, he’s got a contract with someone else for what it seems is more money.”
What you don’t get is, his contract salary is only somewhat related to his actual accomplishments. One of his primary values to Strikeforce right now is that he’s a free agent with significant tenure in the UFC. However, I don’t believe that Henderson was referring to those qualities when he was talking about what he deserved to be paid.
ufc chose the big head over the big right hand.
When you look at the deal, I think strikeforce comes out ahead. Dan is a ufc champ, rings champ, brazil open and pride champ in 2 weight divisions who brings a lot of credibility international appeal and a presumably more knowledgeable fan base.
The ufc gets a shot fighter with a big head and mouth who has never even fought outside the ufc and will never fight for the ufc title again.
Ok, I know who Hulk Hogan is, but “Bret Hart” is way too deep for me to have any clue…some kind of wrestler from the 80s?`
well done Dan Henderson for not signing away his likenesses to the UFC. Would love to know which other fighters have refused to bow down.
EA should snap up Henderson straight away.
“The ufc gets a shot fighter with a big head and mouth who has never even fought outside the ufc and will never fight for the ufc title again.”
They also get a guy who’s been a more dominant champion than Hendo’s ever been in his career. A guy who’s much bigger name and 10x the draw that Hendo is and a guy that actually is worth his salary as opposed to Hendo.
Dream on EJ Tito “dominated” the scrub says of UFC all the while dodging real fighters. DH’s legacy and place in the sport will outlast and out shine Tito’s now and forever.
For all the talk of MMA becoming an Olympic sport and growing internationally, the UFC sure does seem content to put out an incresaingly inferior product that only appeals to the low end of the sport fan spectrum.
The brand will only carry so far, the UFC needs real talent and real quality in in their fighters to be taken seriously. A much as the inbred 18-35 guidos seem to love “ultimate C-Grade Kickboxing”
for this sport to survive and thrive it needs to take it’s self seriously. DH v. Nate the great, Vitor, AS, Damien Maia, Shogun, Wandy, Jon JOnes, and so on, thats taking the sport seriously. Amir v. Baroni, that is a joke and will only cement the reputation of MMA as a no skill sport for drunken brawlers.
EJ;
By the looks of the buyrates for the Tito-Forrest rematch, it doesn’t seem like Tito Ortiz is worth his salary. What makes you think he does deserve his salary? For the success (both match results and buyrates/tv ratings) he had in the past? It’s 2009, and both Tito Ortiz and Randy Couture (you can probably add Chuck Liddell there too) are old news. Dan Henderson may be old news in the immediate future, but for now he is still a top ten light heavyweight, and Tito is barely top 20.
Tito Ortiz’s UFC salary is worth every penny, despite not being a big PPV draw at the moment. Dan Henderson on Network TV will get Strikeforce ratings between Fedor and Robbie Lawler. Tito Ortiz would be a huge shot in the arm of Strikeforce for free TV. So Tito Ortiz’s value is worth it based on what he could have done for Strikeforce. Same thing for Kimbo Slice. I don’t see him being a big PPV guy, but he is somebody who can bring in major TV ratings. That makes him worth money.
Not to mention that a season of TUF and a big win over Chuck Liddell could potentially put Ortiz back into the spotlight. He has that potential. He has that “IT” Factor. Dan Henderson just doesn’t have it. Great fighter, but he just doesn’t have it. That is why Strikeforce went after Ortiz to begin with.
According to MMALogic, the money that was earmarked for Ortiz ended up going to Henderson and Lashley. So obviously SCott Coker thought as highly as Tito Ortiz as the UFC did, or he wouldn’t have put aside that large sum of money to try and get him into his company.
The big problem for Strikeforce is that they are now sitting big on at least 3 or 4 contracts… And all it takes it for the UFC to lessen their asking price for a CBS deal, and Strikeforce is basically out of business (no way they can afford that without PPV or a bigger network deal). That is a very dangerous position to be in.
I’m not saying Dana White has some master plan to trap Strikeforce, but he certainly didn’t get in the way of them spending big money on fighters. And we all know the UFC has the money to sign a guy like Dan Henderson if they want to. We have seen so many companies go out of business because they couldn’t afford the salaries of the fighters. Strikeforce is now knee deep without any real source of revenues…. No PPV and no good paying network deal.
“Dan is a ufc champ, rings champ, brazil open and pride champ in 2 weight divisions who brings a lot of credibility international appeal and a presumably more knowledgeable fan base.”
1) Dan is not a UFC Champion. And nobody cares about the rest of those titles.
2) 5.2 Million viewers for Kimbo says that the fanbase isn’t as knowledgable as you think. As a fan, that is sad, but it’s the truth.
Oh, and I’m back. For limited comments. I will be adding my 2 cents to the discussion, but I’m not getting into debates anymore. I will say what I feel needs to be said, and let it speak for itself.
Enjoy the fights tonight. Sanchez by Round 4 stoppage!!!
What you don’t get is, his contract salary is only somewhat related to his actual accomplishments.
Its 100% his accomplishments. Without those accomplishments, he’s not the biggest star on the free agent market. Just being another guy isn’t going to get you offered $250K a fight by the UFC or anything similar anywhere else.
Oh, and I’m back.
Phew!
Not to mention that a season of TUF and a big win over Chuck Liddell could potentially put Ortiz back into the spotlight. He has that potential. He has that “IT” Factor. Dan Henderson just doesn’t have it. Great fighter, but he just doesn’t have it. That is why Strikeforce went after Ortiz to begin with.
“potentially” being the important term. They could also come out of it looking just as finished as before. I still favor Liddell too.
The big problem for Strikeforce is that they are now sitting big on at least 3 or 4 contracts… And all it takes it for the UFC to lessen their asking price for a CBS deal, and Strikeforce is basically out of business (no way they can afford that without PPV or a bigger network deal). That is a very dangerous position to be in.
Lucky for them, the UFC has shown a consistent refusal to either increase fighter pay or drop what they’re willing to accept in order to land a network deal, otherwise Strikeforce, EXC, and the rest would have been non-starters. Chances that changes now? Slim and none, and slim has apparently left town to run an MMA show in an Abu Dhabi hotel lobby
Tonight’s show still looks good though. I’m expecting 500,000 buys, a BJ Penn win (but a lot more respect for Sanchez than before) and Kongo to clock out Mir in harsh fashion when Mir turns out to still be a lousy wrestler.
LOL
I love it when people go storming off a forum in a huff only to show up a week later as if it never happened.
I guess 45 Huddle missed all the attention.
Dan Henderson is a UFC tournament champion. Tito Ortiz fleeced UFC for PPV-draw money when he doesn’t appear to be a PPV draw anymore. And the whole storyline that UFC is “tricking” Strikeforce into signing valuable talent in a roundabout attempt to crush them under the weight of those contracts is beyond retarded… like most conspiracy theories perpetuated by mmalogic, who is a hysterical child who speaks about Dana and the UFC in biblical terms.
And now, I’m leaving and never coming back. Until Monday.
Aww, I’ve not been here for a week and I missed it – what happened with 45? 😀
Sorry, 45 Huddle, I have to. I just have to.
Here is what happened, Brad Wharton:
35.December 3rd, 2009 at 6:36 pm 45 Huddle Says:
Because I really said the reasoning for the merger is the UFC…. Zuffa would be a benefactor as a result of the merger, but this merger has nothing to do with them.
Seems like the crazies have really taken over this blog. Zach Arnold does a fantastic job with his analysis, but sadly too much of the UFC hate has taken over. Every week a news story spells the end of the UFC in the mind of these posters. And anybody who dispells these opinions is bashed.
Either way, I won’t be returning to this website from now on as a result of it. Enjoy your hatefest…”
45 now that you are back are you going to apologize for lying and changing your definition of the word speed mid-argument/for running away like Houston Alexander? Or were you hoping that by taking hiatus for a week that all would be forgotten?
LOL at trying to spin the 2nd best 185 pounder in the world, who is one of the more famous names in mma, coming off a monstrous knockout at the biggest show in the history of mma, leaving the UFC, and that being a good thing for Zuffa. You’re a remarkable shill.
LOL more at Tito having “it”. I guess the 300k buyrate is a sign of how he’s such a star right?
Henderson is a much better fighter than Tito ever was, and Bobby Lashley, like Brock, has a huge name from pro wrestling and is a fabulous athlete/amateur wrestler. He is going to be a star in mma if he trains full time.
I’m really pumped every time BJ Penn fights. I earlier predicted 500k-600k but now I think it will get above that, because all the fans who didn’t buy the awful Tito-Forrest fight are going to get this to get their mma fix, especially given that the next two UFC ppvs are utter shit and will be lucky to get 200k buys.
“Its 100% his accomplishments. Without those accomplishments, he’s not the biggest star on the free agent market. Just being another guy isn’t going to get you offered $250K a fight by the UFC or anything similar anywhere else.”
You think too simplistic.
“EJ;
By the looks of the buyrates for the Tito-Forrest rematch, it doesn’t seem like Tito Ortiz is worth his salary. What makes you think he does deserve his salary? For the success (both match results and buyrates/tv ratings) he had in the past? It’s 2009, and both Tito Ortiz and Randy Couture (you can probably add Chuck Liddell there too) are old news. Dan Henderson may be old news in the immediate future, but for now he is still a top ten light heavyweight, and Tito is barely top 20.”
Even with 350k buys the UFC makes more than enough money to justify his salary unlike Henderson. This is what people don’t seem to get Henderson might be a better fighter than Tito but in the grand scheme of things he’s a nobody compared to him.
You want to turn down the UFC and act like you’re a big shot fine, but bigger and better fighters have done the same and paid the price. In the end Hendo will find out that same lesson, I mean the guy is talking about fighting Fedor at HW that should tell you just how delusional and out of his mind he is.
LOL @ 45 Huddle. He’s just acting like an emotional little girl as a tribute to his hero Dana White.
You think too simplistic.
You imagine there is something more grandiose involved. Dan Henderson isn’t a former PRIDE champ, UFC title challenger, dude who was on TUF 9, guy with the meanest performance on UFC 100, etc etc etc; Why does he get this money? Why does he get this attention? He does not. He’s the biggest fighter to be on the free agent market in forever and a day and as a result he gets paid well. There are no great conspiracies or worthwhile poker/wrestling analogies.
You want to turn down the UFC and act like you’re a big shot fine, but bigger and better fighters have done the same and paid the price. In the end Hendo will find out that same lesson, I mean the guy is talking about fighting Fedor at HW that should tell you just how delusional and out of his mind he is.
What “lesson”? People who talk like that are the ones who are delusional. Should he have taken less money to fight Nate Marqhardt? If so, why? What is the benefit for Henderson?
Take less money how?, in the short term or long term because have gone all in to cash big paychecks for a fight or two and ended up looking like fools in the end sadly so will Hendo.
Take less money how?, in the short term or long term because have gone all in to cash big paychecks for a fight or two and ended up looking like fools in the end sadly so will Hendo.
Let me explain it. Henderson will probably make more than $300K in his next fight, and the odds are it will probably be against someone like Jake Shields. Henderson is an easy and wide favorite in that fight. Meanwhile, Henderson would probably be even odds or a slight favorite to beat Marqhardt for significantly less money. If he loses to Marqhardt, this “long term” you speak of vanishes into thin air, along with the money he was being contracted to make. The odds of this happening are far greater than they are of him losing to Jake Shields and seeing that contract (which is for more money to start with) vaporizing.
Its a repeat of the “Tim Sylvia/Andrei Arlovski is stupid” argument. People who ignore the fact that this is a sport make that argument, because it falls apart almost instantly under light scrutiny.
So basically you’re argument is to take the money and fight lesser competition?. Give me a break if Hendo were to lose to Nate he’d be given a lower tier opponent to rebuild his reputation again keeping himself in the mix at all times thanks to the UFC machine. On the other hand if he pulls an Arlovski or a Sylvia and gets beat by a guy like Shields bye bye everything. Simply put it’s stupid to leave a place that can guarantee you a future and a nice fat paycheck deep into your past your prime day for taking short term money at the risk of losing it all.
So basically you’re argument is to take the money and fight lesser competition?
Of course it is. You’d be stupid not to do that.
Give me a break if Hendo were to lose to Nate he’d be given a lower tier opponent to rebuild his reputation again keeping himself in the mix at all times thanks to the UFC machine.
He’d likely be given a lower tier opponent by Strikeforce too. What’s the difference? “keeping himself in the mix at all times” is a meaningless statement. He’d take a big pay cut from either one, except in the case of Strikeforce, he’d have made more money to start with. Anyone who would take someone parroting your advice deserves to end up broke.
On the other hand if he pulls an Arlovski or a Sylvia and gets beat by a guy like Shields bye bye everything.
If Sylvia stayed with the UFC and lost his next fight (which he wasn’t going to be paid even 1/5 of what Affliction gave him), what did he gain? How about Arlovski? That’s why that argument is hollow. It doesn’t work.
“1) Dan is not a UFC Champion. And nobody cares about the rest of those titles.”
AH, HA, HA, HA!
No one except the UFC, right?
They always plug when a guy has previous MMA experience or championships,…ESPECIALLY PRIDE.
You can argue that they really don’t care about RINGS, SHOOTO, K-1, Abu Dabi and Vale Tudo events, but the UFC ALWAYS made a big deal out of the fact that Wanderlei Silva, Nog and Henderson were Champions in PRIDE,…and especially, guess who?
Henderson.
Why? Because he was a champ in two weight divisions at the same time.
The also put over all the other guys (Liddell, Anderson Silva, Belfort, Rua) because of when they fought in PRIDE.
Not to mention it is in their best interest to hype PRIDE, since they own the entire PRIDE video library (but that is certainly not the sole reason.)
So, while you are entitled to your own opinion, that portion of your comment is lacking.