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« | Home | »

Why are so many people in boxing unhappy after last weekend’s Mayweather PPV?

By Zach Arnold | September 24, 2009

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Interesting question to ask, considering the various media leaks Richard Schaefer (through Kevin Iole and Golden Boy-owned Ring Magazine) has made regarding how super stupendous the PPV buyrate will be for last weekend’s bout between Floyd Mayweather & Juan Manuel Marquez.

The first interesting sign is that the live gate was below par for the show. Remember, Dana White last week in Dallas during media rounds said he had been told that the advance for the show was not very good. Then came the whole weight issue with Mayweather and how he missed a cutoff of 144 pounds and paid Marquez $600,000 USD for being two pounds over. Third, there was the confrontation between Max Kellerman and Mayweather in the ring, where Shane Mosley made his presence felt.

So, as I asked in the title of this post, why are so many people in boxing so unhappy in the aftermath of Mayweather essentially setting up a match next year against Manny Pacquiao?

Topics: Boxing, Media, Zach Arnold | 96 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |

96 Responses to “Why are so many people in boxing unhappy after last weekend’s Mayweather PPV?”

  1. Fluyid says:

    Could you provide some links so that we can read about these “people in boxing” who are “unhappy” as a result of this event?

  2. Chuck says:

    The same reason they weren’t happy after the De La Hoya fight; there was no drama and Floyd didn’t actively engage with DLH. It happened exactly as I thought it would last year, but many (a good chunk of them dumb asses who never say Floyd fight I bet) were more than likely expecting a Gatti-Ward slugfest. They were probably expecting one with this match too, but this was much more one-sided.

    And how did he set-up a fight with Pacquiao? There was more of a push to fight Shane Mosley than there was to fight Pacquiao.

  3. jr says:

    I just want to see Manny and Shane. Floyd and his father makes me want to skip calling the cable company on a saturday night

  4. Zack says:

    Gate size doesn’t necessarily translate to PPV success though, which is much more important. Didn’t Brock vs Couture fall short of a sellout too? (regardless of what Goldie says lol)

  5. Zach Arnold says:

    Gate size doesn’t necessarily translate to PPV success though, which is much more important. Didn’t Brock vs Couture fall short of a sellout too? (regardless of what Goldie says lol)

    I agree and I know this — I’m just curious why there are many complaints going around focusing on this when the PPV buys are supposed to huge.

  6. My take: Floyd’s performance was uninspiring to many. For him to come out of a self-imposed eight-month retirement and beat out Juan Manuel Marquez like he did… that’s pretty impressive. However the win quickly becomes negated because the general public was fed the notion that Floyd fought a smaller, hand-picked opponent rather than who he really should be fighting – Manny Pacquiao.

    Secondly, Floyd’s post-fight comments suggest that a showdown with Pacquiao is as far away as ever before. He’s showing absolutely no interest in fighting Manny. Promoters on both sides are also saying that a deal to put the fighter together is going to be next to impossible to get done. Couple those things with the fact that Shane Mosley’s stunt is only going to push back a potential Mayweather-Pacquiao mega-fight even further, and I feel it’s blatantly obvious as to why boxing fans are very happy even after their biggest fight of the year.

  7. DAMN says:

    the live gate was reported as at least 3x the 2.4 mill UFC 103 did.
    big fights in las vages rarely sell out because of the very high ticket prices.
    bob arum said ufc 100 never did 1.7 mil. i belive golden boy over ufc or arum because thay always release ppv buy rates, ufc and arum do not.

  8. EJ says:

    Then you’re pretty much an idiot, Arum’s has no clue about anything the UFC does or doesn’t do. To take his word on anything even his own fighters ppv buyrates, would be like trusting a politician to always tell the truth which would be simply stupid.

  9. Wolverine says:

    I think boxing people are rather happy about how it all went down in the end.

  10. MK says:

    Who is unhappy?

    The PPV did double the number of buys expected and the live gate was bigger then UFC 100.

    Tickets weren’t sold out because they were overpriced and it was close to capacity. Many though that the show would flop instead it was a mega success, and on the same day as a UFC event.

    Top to bottom it was a solid show and even if you don’t like Mayweather’s defensive style you can’t help but respected his skills. Floyd is a top 3 draw in all combat sports and this PPV proved it.

    If Pac beats Cotto and they manage to set up the Floyd-Pac superfight then IMO it breaks the all time PPV record of 2.4 million.

  11. Alan Conceicao says:

    Easy. Boxing’s journalists act in a way that is, well, not like MMA journos. MMA journos have a habit of copying Meltzer; biz first, actual sport of MMA a far, far second. Boxing writers don’t care that a bajillion people watched Mayweather. They want Mayweather to take the most competitive bouts possible.

  12. Alan Conceicao says:

    Also, MMA Weekly had a interesting note about the Rampage Jackson negotiations, for all those who think this is about making him a movie star/”not being a fucking fighter”:

    http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templates/dailynews.asp?articleid=9641&zoneid=13

    One source close to the fighter characterized his actions differently, telling MMAWeekly.com Tuesday evening that Jackson said he “wasn’t going to fight for the UFC unless they offered him a (expletive) of money.”

    LOL, why is this so hard for people to believe? Your super-fun lock of the day: Within 18 months, Brock Lesnar pulls the same stunt.

  13. DAMN says:

    @EJ plz read my post again before insulting me, i never said i agreed with arum i said i am more inclined to belive GBP over arum and the ufc who are both proven liars.

  14. Ultimo Santa says:

    I wonder how much longer people are going to pay to see Mayweather backpedal for an entire fight and/or go to a decision?

    It’s like in the Tyson era where he was beating a bunch of cans (or throwing phantom punches) and winning in 22 seconds. People were paying boatloads to see that garbage and they’d just keep coming back for more.

    Boxing fans are an interesting bunch, that’s for sure.

  15. Alan Conceicao says:

    I wonder how much longer people are going to pay to see Mayweather backpedal for an entire fight and/or go to a decision?

    Probably for a long time? My bet is that they keep buying into Mayweather backpedling long after they seeing Machida or Anderson Silva do the same.

    It’s like in the Tyson era where he was beating a bunch of cans (or throwing phantom punches) and winning in 22 seconds. People were paying boatloads to see that garbage and they’d just keep coming back for more.

    They wanted to see the best fighter in the world produce carnage. Isn’t that why Brock Lesnar is supposedly the single greatest PPV draw in the history of time now? Its not like the Couture or Mir fights were back and forth wars that went deep into championship rounds.

  16. Mark says:

    I love it: “I don’t like boxing but I know what boxing fans want to see.”

    So many MMA fans judge boxing on MMA stand up standards, and they couldn’t be more different. Of course if you tune in expecting nothing but headhunting a Mayweather fight is boring. But it’s called “boxing”, not “headhunting”.

    It’s like in the Tyson era where he was beating a bunch of cans (or throwing phantom punches) and winning in 22 seconds. People were paying boatloads to see that garbage and they’d just keep coming back for more.

    I’d like to apologize fo 45Huddle. He’s Max Kellerman compared to your lack of boxing knowledge. Look, let them enjoy boxing the way they see fit, you go back and enjoy MMA the way they see fit and everybody is happy. You don’t get paid on UFC or boxing PPV buyrates so who gives a crap who draws what.

  17. liger05 says:

    How are all the haters going to spin the buyrate numbers?

  18. Alan Conceicao says:

    Easy; Mayweather is nearing retirement again, and after him there will be no more superstars, boxing fans were just hungry for a big fight, 24/7. I think its funny that the gate was “disappointing” and yet bigger than any in MMA history.

  19. Mark says:

    The same way they spun the other Mayweather numbers: “The fight sucked so they’ll never be that high again.” They think boxing fans are complete morons who get fooled into thinking MMA standards of what a good fight looks like is going to happen 2-3 times a year.

    And I’ll guarantee no matter how many times they get big buyrates, Dana is always compare them to that one time they got 1.7 million and deem them all failures. You just know it. What, boxing got 2.4 million one time? Well, they didn’t get 1.7!

  20. Fluyid says:

    One million buys it is:

    “The Mayweather-Juan Manuel Marquez non-title bout drew 1 million buys — roughly $52 million, according to HBO PPV — at MGM Grand in Las Vegas last Saturday, by far the former welterweight champion’s greatest showing as the headliner.”

    http://www.usatoday.com/sports/boxing/2009-09-25-mayweathermillionbuys_N.htm

  21. Alan Conceicao says:

    And I’ll guarantee no matter how many times they get big buyrates, Dana is always compare them to that one time they got 1.7 million and deem them all failures. You just know it. What, boxing got 2.4 million one time? Well, they didn’t get 1.7!

    But they didn’t build anyone with that PPV like the UFC does with their’s. Who was on that undercard? Oh, gee, a Top 15 P4P fighter who happens to be the Ring Magazine Featherweight champion and a couple all action top tier lightweights bordering on title shots. That’s nothing like your average UFC PPV. That has like 6-7 fights where dudes get KOed in the first 5 minutes! The crowd will always get down for that.

  22. liger05 says:

    1 Mil buys. Excellent news. Dana White u got served!!!

  23. ttt says:

    1M is no where close to Iole’s number of ~1.5

  24. Fluyid says:

    “He’s not a superstar. Floyd doesn’t sell. Floyd plus another great fighter sells. You need two good fighters that people really want to see. It’s not a fight people want to see.”

    – Dana White

  25. The Gaijin says:

    FYI – the figure that was released still hasn’t accounted for sales related to the theatre showings for the fight.

    I’m not sure how they’ll go about factoring in those receipts – e.g. you can’t really count each ticket buy to the theatre showing as equal to a ppv buy – but that will definitely increase the final number.

  26. Mark says:

    1M is no where close to Iole’s number of ~1.5

    That was clearly an honest mistake, because nobody volunteers their tongue more for Dana White’s toilet paper than Kevin Iole. He would lowball it as much as possible.

  27. The Gaijin says:

    And I my bet is that detractors would attempt to spin this higher than hoped buyrate with the notion that “a lot of latino fans bought the ppv b/c of JMM, so it still doesn’t really prove that PBF is a ppv draw.”

    Even though these same people went on and on about how JMM wasn’t really that big of a draw to begin with…blah, blah.

  28. Alan Conceicao says:

    1M is no where close to Iole’s number of ~1.5

    And since Iole, who many see as a mouthpiece of Dana, projected it would double expectations and not merely beat them by about 33-50%, this show is a failure. MMA fans never disappoint.

  29. Mr.Roadblock says:

    1 million is a huge number. There is no question that Floyd is a huge money draw. I have to give Floyd credit. I thought he helped Oscar and Hatton draw as a heel. But now I’d have to say he drew for the Hatton fight.

  30. Dave says:

    After we get theater sales you can probably re-adjust those numbers.

  31. Mark says:

    I almost missed this gem from Iole’s column

    Many critics had dismissed Mayweather’s 2007 pay-per-view success against Oscar De La Hoya and Ricky Hatton as a fluke, crediting the popularity of De La Hoya and Hatton with the bulk of the sales.

    Oscar was absolutely more popular than Floyd. But Ricky Hatton is more popular than Floyd Mayweather? Are you on crack, Kevin?

    And then he had to choke back the tears as he closed out

    Many critics, including rival promoter Bob Arum and UFC president Dana White, predicted the fight would perform poorly. Arum suggested Mayweather would make no money after he paid an existing tax debt, paid his expenses and his taxes due on his current purse. White repeatedly vowed UFC 103 would outsell the boxing card.

    That means Dana will play the demographic game to prove himself bigger. “Well, we got more 18-35 year old buyers. No? Well, then got more people who wore jeans when they ordered the show to buy it. No? Well, we had more people who know all the words to the Beverly Hillbillies theme song to buy it. No? Well, we had more people who know a good lasagna recipe to buy it. See, we’re better than boxing.”

  32. bdw says:

    #18-alan- “easy maywether is nearing retirement again. true-peole will say that and they will be right. oscar, morales,hatton and barerra are already retired, which leaves pac-man, floyd, cotto, shane and perhaps marquez, if he can get pac-man again. all of those fighters are in their 30’s or close and rich. they also have to fight each other to get these kind of numbers, and floyd has ben very reluctant to do so. so think 2 years down the road, what fighters do you see coming up that can replace these fighters. i don’t see anyone. you have to have a top latino, who? chavez jr? i doubt it. i think thats why this might be the answer as too why boxing fans are unhappy. if jmm would have won, he definetley would have challenged pac-man, shane, or cotto, but not floyd, he’s to greedy and does not want a real chalenge( he’s no sugar ray-leonard or robinson).they see the future, and it aint pretty.

  33. Fluyid says:

    They better not be counting the theater ticket sales in this number. They won’t play well at all.

  34. EJ says:

    “@EJ plz read my post again before insulting me, i never said i agreed with arum i said i am more inclined to belive GBP over arum and the ufc who are both proven liars.”

    1. You can believe anyone you want, but the idea that anyone in the boxing world knows anything about UFC buyrates is laughable. Just like Dana has no clue what the Mayweather-Marquez was going to do since he isn’t a promoter of the sport.

    2. The UFC never releases any buyrate numbers Meltzer does and he’s the best in the business at doing it. If he says it got around 1.7 i’ll take his word on it over anyone in GBP or anywhere else his track record speaks for itself.

  35. Mr.Roadblock says:

    If you take the number movie ticket purchasers who paid $12.50 each and divide by 4 (which would be $50 paid) you can legitimately add that to the PPV buys.

    Each PPV buy always equals 5 PPV viewers in my mind. Since usually there are at least a couple people at each house watching.

  36. Fluyid says:

    Yeah, and either way they’re still reporting $52 million in PPV buys.

  37. Alan Conceicao says:

    I don’t think its up to them to do that. My memory is that its a third party distributor doing it, kinda like how Joe Hand distributes UFC PPVs to bars.

  38. Fluyid says:

    “Let’s say Floyd does a million buys out there… there’s a million stupid fucking people out there.”

    – Dana White

  39. MK says:

    Dan Rafael just reported in his chat that theater numbers are only added up to the closed circuit total not the PPV buys.

    70% capacity for theaters, which is very good.

  40. Mark says:

    That’s a little surprising to me since I hadn’t seen any reviews on the theater showings. Maybe I just haven’t looked hard enough.

    I think in the days prior to high def big screens and home theater soundsystems this idea would have done much better. If they had done this in the days when Tyson was red hot pre-ear bite it would have been massive. But if you can get your friends to split up the cost of a PPV and you’ve got a nice television and surround sound, going to a movie theater is redundant. Especially when alcohol is banned there and who doesn’t like to drink some beers while watching combat sports?

  41. 45 Huddle says:

    Plus, sitting in a theater seat for 5 hours in mind numbingly bad. I did 3.5 hours for Lord of the Rings 3, and my head was about the explode by the end of it. I loved the movie, but that is a long time to be in a theater. Even with the comfortable seats they have now.

  42. Joseph says:

    They are pretty happy it will make close to 60 million and in revenue and sold 1 mill PPV’s.

  43. The Gaijin says:

    While I’ve read a lot of “good reviews” from people who attended the theatre events on various message boards, I’d have to agree with 45 – I’d have a hard damned time convincing myself that 5 hours of sitting in a theatre is a “fun time”…even if it ended up being awesome.

  44. Jeremy (not that Jeremy) says:

    My lasagna is unbeatable.

    Of course Rampage wants more money, but frankly I don’t think he’s going to get it. Rampage vs Evans has sizzle, but UFC can get as much play off of Rampage refusing to fight as they would having him fight, they’re pretty good at that.

    Meanwhile the LHW division isn’t being significantly damaged losing Rampage, it’s deep enough to drown any one fighter.

  45. liger05 says:

    The Mayweather-Marquez results trounced UFC 103, which was on pay-per- view the same night. Though the UFC does not release its pay-per-view figures, indications from industry sources are strong that the boxing card had a better than a 2-to-1 advantage.

    Schaefer suggested UFC 103 barely topped 100,000 buys. He said the performance of Mayweather-Marquez clearly established Mayweather as the successor to Oscar De La Hoya as the industry’s pay-per-view king.

    White continuously boasted that his card would best the Mayweather card at the pay-per-view box office. He said UFC 103 did far more than 100,000 buys, but he conceded that boxing scored a heavy victory.

    White said he thought before the fights, a home run for Mayweather-Marquez would have been 650,000. But he said Friday he had been hearing from his contacts that the fight may have reached as high as 1.6 million.

    “I’m an emotional guy and if we’d only have done 100,000, or barely above 100,000, I would be suicidal,” White said. “Bottom line, we did a good number and we still got our asses kicked. What they did was phenomenal and I’m happy for them.

    Schaefer questioned the legitimacy of UFC pay-per-view results that were leaked. He said HBO is a publicly traded company that would face serious repercussions for releasing false numbers. The UFC, he noted, is a private company with no such concerns.

    “I think the UFC and boxing should be able to co-exist and work together in this thing that we call (combat) sports,” Schaefer said.

    “I don’t want to talk (expletive) about the UFC. But Dana White can’t do an interview without knocking boxing. If he thinks we’re idiots and don’t know anything about the pay-per-view business, I’ll make him a challenge.

    “I am willing to hire one of the top three accounting firms, at my expense, and do an audit of his pay-per-view results. They are nowhere near what is put into the public. There is talk that UFC 100 did 1.6 million, but it barely broke a million. I am willing to pay to have the audits done to prove this.”

    White said he would not allow anyone other than fighters with a contractual right to do so to audit his numbers.

    “Do you think I’m (expletive) crazy?” he said.

  46. Fluyid says:

    “I’m an emotional guy and if we’d only have done 100,000, or barely above 100,000, I would be suicidal,” White said. “Bottom line, we did a good number and we still got our asses kicked. What they did was phenomenal and I’m happy for them. This was our fourth pay-per-view in two months (actually 10 weeks) and we still did a great number, but this was only their second all year.”

    This is the Dana White that I like. It doesn’t matter if a boxing PPV gets 25,000 buys or 5 million. The UFC is still rocking along like crazy and is at the top of the heap.

  47. Mark says:

    What LHW division are you watching? If they’re having to consider giving the next shot to either Brandon Vera, one of the biggest busts in Zuffa’s history or Randy Couture, a 1-2 47 year old, that’s not a healthy division. And that’s not big deal because their other divisions are great, but they do need Rampage. It’s not that the fights are bad, but they’re stuck with no #1 contender after Shogun loses.

    Rashad needs another win to get a title shot. I guess he’ll get either the winner of Couture/Vera or Ortiz/Coleman which doesn’t have nearly the same title shot urgency as a win over Jackson would have.

    Anderson Silva and Rogerio Nogueira won’t agree to fight Machida since they’re all Black House.

    They blew Forrest Griffin as a contender for a few fights on the pointless Silva fight.

    Luis Cane, even with a win over Nogueira, needs to do a little more to be a credible contender to fans. He’s definitely a contender but hasn’t had the right fights yet to be credible.

    Tito Ortiz vs. Machida II doesn’t sound remotely interesting. Neither does Thiago Silva vs. Machida II. You’re going to have a hard time making people believe the fight is going to be any different. It’s why Franklin-Silva II bombed; people aren’t going to buy fights when they’re sure of the outcome.

  48. 45 Huddle says:

    The UFC Light Heavyweight Division is still very good. Ortiz is going to try and make another run at the title. Rampage will be back, he can’t make a living off of being an actor like he can as a fighter. Jon Jones will be ready in less then 18 months. The UFC might be weak for the next title challenger. They won’t be weak for the next 3 or 4 after that minimum.

  49. IceMuncher says:

    Rampage doesn’t change the overall health of the LHW division, it just gives the UFC one good title fight (assuming that he can get past Rashad). That’s it.

    This is the beauty of the way the UFC does its business; they don’t have to make every title fight a super-fight. They just give the title shot to best possible contender they have, stack the rest of the card if the fight is a little lackluster, and boom! 450k PPV buys.

  50. Alan Conceicao says:

    Rampage doesn’t change the overall health of the LHW division, it just gives the UFC one good title fight (assuming that he can get past Rashad). That’s it.

    I don’t buy that shit. People can talk about Jon Jones all they want, but he hasn’t beaten a top ten ranked fighter yet. Rampage going straight into a title fight is their biggest money possibility right now that they can do, outside of Anderson Silva, for a 205lb title fight. Period. Anyone else is gonna have a substandard buyrate. And the longer he’s away, and the longer Machida holds that belt, the more there’s gonna be a demand to see that fight. The UFC will end up upping his pay. They’d be stupid not to.

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