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« | Home | »

Why are so many people in boxing unhappy after last weekend’s Mayweather PPV?

By Zach Arnold | September 24, 2009

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Interesting question to ask, considering the various media leaks Richard Schaefer (through Kevin Iole and Golden Boy-owned Ring Magazine) has made regarding how super stupendous the PPV buyrate will be for last weekend’s bout between Floyd Mayweather & Juan Manuel Marquez.

The first interesting sign is that the live gate was below par for the show. Remember, Dana White last week in Dallas during media rounds said he had been told that the advance for the show was not very good. Then came the whole weight issue with Mayweather and how he missed a cutoff of 144 pounds and paid Marquez $600,000 USD for being two pounds over. Third, there was the confrontation between Max Kellerman and Mayweather in the ring, where Shane Mosley made his presence felt.

So, as I asked in the title of this post, why are so many people in boxing so unhappy in the aftermath of Mayweather essentially setting up a match next year against Manny Pacquiao?

Topics: Boxing, Media, Zach Arnold | 96 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |

96 Responses to “Why are so many people in boxing unhappy after last weekend’s Mayweather PPV?”

  1. 45 Huddle says:

    Alan,

    You talk about the UFC like it is boxing. Boxing greatly depends on a real real small pool of fighters to produce good PPV Buyrates. Everything else either ends up on HBO/Sho, or is a PPV dud.

    The UFC gets a minimum of 350,000 PPV Buys no matter who fights. They have Lesnar, GSP, Ortiz, Silva, Couture, Penn, and a few others to keep strong PPV Buys beyond that. The LHW will be fine until Rampage decides to “unretire”.

    Even James Toney came out recently in praise of the way the UFC does it’s matchmaking. That style matchmaking always gives the perception of quality title contenders and keeps the fans interested.

    If this Rampage thing happened in boxing, it would be a major blow to the sport. But he fights in the UFC….

  2. Alan Conceicao says:

    They can get their minimum or they can double it by using Rampage. Its pretty obvious which they’ll pick in the end. They’ll pay him more money and he’ll come back. I’ve already said this before.

  3. Mr.Roadblock says:

    I’d be interested to know what UFC 103 honestly did just to see how many people were paying $50 to watch combat sports on September 19, 2009. Forget all the boxing vs UFC BS. Unless UFC 103 did off the charts terrible, 2 million households purchased a combat sports PPV on 9.19.09. That’s really awesome.

    As a guy who loves both sports I’m thrilled by that. Hopefully this puts to rest all the dummies that say boxing is dead. If the boxing promoters ever got their act together they’d have a mega-sport once again.

    As a consumer I thought both events were pretty half-assed. I didn’t really buy JMM as a threat to Floyd as much as I tried to make myself believe it. I know Vitor very well and that’s why I watched UFC 103. If it were Hendo or someone vs Franklin I’d have ordered the boxing. So I think it’s good UFC didn’t beat teh boxing with a mediocre card.

    What I think will be interesting is with Cotto/Paq following Lesnar and Ortiz by one week will both shows do a million buys? I think so and I hope so. My hypothesis is that there is a crossover audience on these big events of 200-300k fans. On September 19 they chose boxing because it was a bigger card. With 2 shows in a month will they pay $100 to watch both? I know I will. If that does happen I think you’ll see boxing and UFC agree to stay out of each other’s way from here on out.

  4. EJ says:

    “I am willing to hire one of the top three accounting firms, at my expense, and do an audit of his pay-per-view results. They are nowhere near what is put into the public. There is talk that UFC 100 did 1.6 million, but it barely broke a million. I am willing to pay to have the audits done to prove this.”

    I’ve read alot of dumb things in my time but this might just top the list, the idea that this guy would even suggest having someone look at his competitions numbers in beyond insane. It just shows how out of their minds the UFC has made some boxing guys, honestly just sit back and read that outloud and take it in and you’ll see just how retarded a statement that was.

    Simply put this guy can be in denial all he wants just like some people on here are when it comes to ppv buyrates. But anyway you spin it UFC is kicking everyone’s ass in that department, only a delusional idiot would try and argue with those facts. I’ll wait for someone like Meltzer who knows what the fuck he’s talking about when it comes to the UFC 103 buyrate instead of believing whatever this moron is spewing out.

  5. MK says:

    No coverage of the K-1 show?

    Its one of the best cards in combat sports this year.

  6. Alan Conceicao says:

    Meltzer, for a dude with so many cable connections, found himself oddly unable to get a buyrate for Affliction. My honest guess is that its because no one in Affliction was telling him. I don’t for a second think he has some magical method to figuring them out.

  7. DAMN says:

    @EJ how much is Meltzer paying you to hug his balls or are you doing it out of love.

  8. Mark says:

    Now this is interesting. 3 years of “DA BIZ > EVERYTHING!” And now “Well, it’s the artistic quality of the fights, not about giant buyrates.” But pre-Rampage all the Dananites want to destroy every other PPV event by any means necessary.

    And Dana’s comments are interesting as well. He was so sure running more events wasn’t going to burn the audience out, and now he admits it’s a possibility. So now he’s going to have to make the same decision pro wrestling did in the 90s: do you want blockbuster numbers every time out by fewer events or do you want to smother the market and pray things stay consistent? I’m telling you, you may think I’m crazy, but MMA nearly every weekend is going to eventually wear the casual audience thin.

  9. Jeremy (not that Jeremy) says:

    Personally I think that the title problems in UFC are mainly an issue of poor planning and scheduling.

    Instead of matching winners against winners and losers against losers, they often put winners against losers and unexpected things happen. Then you’ve lost your streak. If you put winners against winners, you’re still going to have one fight come out with an improved streak.

    If you have eight cars per year, you can generate two “contenders” per year with just eight fighters below the title holder. UFC should be able to do that and more with the two dozen plus fighters who are LHW right now, but they can’t manage it.

  10. Isaiah says:

    [QUOTE/]This is the beauty of the way the UFC does its business; they don’t have to make every title fight a super-fight. They just give the title shot to best possible contender they have, stack the rest of the card if the fight is a little lackluster, and boom! 450k PPV buys.[/QUOTE]

    I don’t see that as something for MMA fans to celebrate.

    “That’s the great thing about Blimpy’s: They can serve subpar food with cheaply made ingredients that most sane people wouldn’t eat but because of the way their business is structured and their sheeplike diners, they can still make a profit! Hooray for Blimpy’s! Now, I’m going to get on the Internet and flame anyone who says that any other food is good.”

  11. Mark says:

    Jeremy is right, they’ve had some bad match ups that have brought them to this point. Silva-Griffin was made solely to allow Dana to pat himself on the back that he had to big buyrates back-to-back. Now they’ve hurt Forrest and Silva is back at 185 where the 205 win is meaningless. If that didn’t happen they could run Griffin-Evans for the LHW shot and Rampage being gone wouldn’t quite be as big of a deal.

    Now you’re either going to give a shot for a shot at the title to a 45 year old you made fun of for headlining a pay per view 3 years ago, a 47 year old or a guy you claimed was a worthless piece of shit mind controlled by a porn star that nobody should pay to see again. This is why being humble in a business is a good thing sometimes, because bad luck strikes the luckiest from time to time. I certainly wouldn’t harp on this if “UFC would never be without a main event contender for any of its titles” wasn’t claimed endlessly a little over a month ago. But yeah, it’s a fluke that could never happen again, right?

  12. Jeremy (not that Jeremy) says:

    The contrary argument is that UFC does generally book fights that people actually want to see. It’s not like the fighters are any more or less capable just because UFC isn’t arranging their schedule so that fighters have three wins in a row.

    However, my opinion is that if you put winners against winners, and your headline guys are as good as you think they are, then they’re going to come out in the 2nd and 3rd round of these impromptu tournaments (not actual tourneys mind you, just de facto because they’re effectively knocking out contenders) and fight one another.

    It’s a balancing act. They have to generate “contenders” who have win streaks to look legit, but they have to arrange “headline fights” to sell PPVs.

    Right now they’re leaning towards matchups instead of contenders.

  13. Jeremy (not that Jeremy) says:

    Pride and certain other organizations never particularly worried about that, their titles were more or less on paper, and a titleholder didn’t have to defend his title in any given fight. They just arranged fights that they were able to sell.

  14. Mark says:

    UFC is guilty of that as well. 2006 was all about “let’s make money”. Gracie vs. Hughes, Ortiz vs. Shamrock 2 and 3, Ortiz vs. Liddell 2. None of those fights were close to legitimate.

    Now they’ve replaced bringing back a past star for the superfight: GSP vs. Penn 2, A. Silva vs. Griffin, W. Silva vs. Franklin. Thank God Dana had a moment of clarity and realized GSP vs. A. Silva was going to do more harm than good. GSP more than likely was going to get knocked out so you’d be down to one untarnished champion. Sure, all of these match ups are fun because we all have “What If….” beliefs about what would happen if separate weight class stars fought. But the problem is somebody is going to be damaged in the fans eyes when they lose. Penn got lucky the vaseline incident will always leave a question mark on if he legitimately lost, but the fans turned on Forrest Griffin over night. For one popped buyrate. At least PRIDE’s open weight tournament was stretched over three shows.

  15. Alan Conceicao says:

    Pride and certain other organizations never particularly worried about that, their titles were more or less on paper, and a titleholder didn’t have to defend his title in any given fight. They just arranged fights that they were able to sell.

    And it got us a wide array of freakshows. Is that what anyone wants? I guess it would pop buys, AMIRITE.

    I don’t even understand what you’re arguing at this point. They planned and then saw their plans shot to pieces when fighters turned into human beings instead of the expected automatons. They’ve made some compelling matchups but the follow through has come up way short. When they finally decide to throw some more money at Rampage, this will disappear.

  16. Mr.Roadblock says:

    I think UFC is running into a bit of a problem with over exposure. And that leads to a bigger problem, hot shot booking.

    UFC should scale back to 8 PPVs per year and put better shows on Spike or another TV partner to give them a big presence every month.

    If you had 8 shows on PPV that will allow 2 stars to be on most if not all of the shows.

    I think a lot of UFC’s booking problems could be solved if A. Silva, GSP and Penn each moved up a weight class. I doubt that will happen. But A. Silva if he gets by Belfort and GSP are already done cleaning out their divisions. BJ has a couple interesting fights left at 155, but nobody would be crying if they didn’t see him fight Tyson and Gray even though those should be great fights. I’d rather see BJ fight Alves for the 170lb belt.

    As far as giving in to whatever Rampage’s demands are, I don’t think I’d do that if I were Dana. Rampage has a name, sure. But he is at best 50/50 against Rashad. I think Rashad should win that fight handily. So that only gives you one fight. If he does beat Rashad you know he’ll be a pain in the ass again before fighting Machida or Shogun both of whom should beat him. You open up a Pandora’s box by giving in to Rampage. Then Rashad, Machida, Brock anyone who is a draw will hold out.

    Dana had great results in waiting out Randy and Tito. Except for the fact that they may have hurt their earning potential.

    The main difference between UFC and boxing is that UFC is a league that is trying to run 16-25 dates per year or whatever they run. You can’t have prolonged contractual battles with guys and keep a ship running smoothly. The boxers and boxing promoters don’t have a set schedule so they have all the time in the world to play politics, backstab, retire, unretire, make rap albums, take meaningless fights, etc.

    UFC can keep it’s affairs in order if it can establish another outlet for big shows and use PPV %’s as a carrot in negotiations.

  17. Alan Conceicao says:

    Roadblock’s statements about the UFC and PPV/TV are what I’ve been saying about them for the last 3 years. The difference is that I think its bullshit that they claim they have the disadvantage of such far-future booking. They choose to do that. No one forces them to run a PPV a month. They have to live with the potential consequences as a result.

  18. EJ says:

    “Meltzer, for a dude with so many cable connections, found himself oddly unable to get a buyrate for Affliction. My honest guess is that its because no one in Affliction was telling him. I don’t for a second think he has some magical method to figuring them out.”

    Meltzer had the buyrate numbers for both Affliction shows, it isn’t magic it’s hard work and he’s proven to be on point more than anyone else.

    This is what I find funny about anytime people go at Meltzer, the guy has been doing buyrate numbers for years. But when it’s good news for the UFC it’s taken with a grain of salt on the other end if the numbers aren’t that good people will throw then out as facts.

    Like it or not, Meltzer more than anyone else in the business knows what he’s talking about, so whatever number he says a ppv did has more credibility going for him than anyone from Golden Boy or anyone else.

  19. Alan Conceicao says:

    He never had the numbers for the Affliction shows. He constantly changed from 60-80,000 to being over 100,000 depending on what mood struck him. Not once did he give a final number. He rarely gives them now, too.

    The guy has been doing buyrate numbers for pro wrestling for years. Any possibility for where he might have gotten those numbers outside of cable companies? Also interestingly, these are not the only events on PPV. He’s never broken a single boxing number, even when he decides to match it up with MMA (he has to go off what Rafael and Iole are told). Why is that?

    People pretend Meltzer is an all knowing god. He isn’t.

  20. EJ says:

    Here we go again with the same old bullshit…

    First they are called estimates for a reason, they take months to come in and the final number is only known by the people who run the show like Dana and Atencio.

    Second Meltzer doesn’t claim to be all knowing and never has, but he’s the only guy who has any knowledge of what ppv buys the UFC or WWE is doing to try and deny that is simply well it’s simply living in denial.

    Third it’s really funny how obssessed people are to bash Meltzer I wonder if Zuffa wasn’t doing so good if the same venom and bullshit would be spouted out by people. It’s like they can’t seperate their own hatred of the UFC’s massive success that anyone who affirms it becomes their enemy.

    In the end it’s pathetic and desperate, keep living in denial just make sure that whenever you talk about buyrates never to use the numbers of unreliable Meltzer because then you’ll be just as full of it as you claim he is.

  21. Alan Conceicao says:

    So when he gets these “final” numbers and “trending” numbers that all happen to generally be higher than the final…where do you think he gets them? Who do you think his real source is?

    I get the hero worship, but save it for someone worthwhile.

  22. Chuck says:

    Uh oh! Someone’s panties are in a bunch!

    Please! As Alan said, save the hero worship crap for elsewhere. I don’t think anyone hates Zuffa for their success. If anything, almost all semi-major fight promotions and promoters in North America get criticized/bashed here. Bellator/Bjorn Rebny, Strikeforce/Scott Coker, etc. It’s not just Dana White and the Fertittas. They are the biggest, so they get the most criticism. There is more to criticize with Zuffa than the others thus far. There are the key words; THUS FAR! There will be more to criticize with Coker and Bellator in the future, I guarantee.

    And what’s the the adoration with Dave Meltzer? Sure, he may be the best at what he does (many will argue Bruce Mitchell might be the best pro wrestling writer, but I digress) but he’s far from perfect. The various Affliction ppv numbers prove that. And I even doubt Atencio and White know their ppv numbers that well. That’s all on the ppv provider companies. The worst is that both companies are privately owned, so we may never get any hard numbers, especially for the Affliction ppvs.

  23. David M says:

    I am glad that Floyd trounced UFC 103. Dana is so goddamned annoying and cocky sometimes (not to say Floyd isn’t, obviously). Saying anyone who would buy the boxing show over the UFC is an idiot is a dangerous move; he is playing with fire, and not surprisingly he may end up alienating people with his dumbass remarks (see Fedor, Rampage, Couture, etc for other examples).

    It is ridiculous to say 205 is strong right now. Please be serious. Silva got destroyed by Machida, Evans got destroyed by Machida, Tito got destroyed by Machida, Shogun is about to get destroyed by Machida, Liddell is done, Jardine is done, Vera is a hack, Couture is 50, Forrest was embarrassed by a 185er which totally destroyed his credibility, and Jon Jones doesn’t have a name yet. Rampage is the only compelling matchup they have left with Machida as champion. He is also one of the best fighters in the UFC, as well as one of their biggest stars (and will be an even bigger star after TUF) as well as having much more charisma and personality than most fighters. Hopefully the Fertittas will clean up Dana’s mess and get Rampage back…

    It is going to be really funny when winner of Cotto/Pac fights Floyd. Dana was running his mouth about how boxing promoters don’t try to put the big matches together, then realized his hypocrisy and said, uh, I tried to get Fedor, Arum won’t try to get Floyd against Pac/Cotto…Just nonsense. I’m telling you, not signing Fedor was a horrible moment for the UFC–they are rolling in the cash; giving the best fighter in mma history 3 million a fight guaranteed is worth it–look how thin their heavyweight division is now. Fedor v Lesnar would do more than 2 million buys, but Dana is too goddamned proud to offer Fedor what he deserves. Also the shit-talking about fighters has to stop. Dana saying that Fedor is at a buffet training, etc., is just ridiculous and makes him and the UFC seem like a bunch of clowns.

  24. EJ says:

    “So when he gets these “final” numbers and “trending” numbers that all happen to generally be higher than the final…where do you think he gets them? Who do you think his real source is?

    I get the hero worship, but save it for someone worthwhile.”

    Again what is so hard for you to understand, when Meltzer comes out with a trending estimate it’s just that a prelimenary estimate and not the final estimate.

    Usually they are higher than the final number there is no conspiracy here and as usual you can be in denial all you want but it doesn’t change anything. As far as hero worship stop the bullshit, just like Dan Rafael is a trusted name in the boxing circles Dave Meltzer is the same in mma period.

  25. Jeremy (not that Jeremy) says:

    White is “playing with fire” when he talks smack about boxing?

    What are those mean old boxing promoters going to do, open up shop in MMA?

    Please.

  26. Alan Conceicao says:

    His preliminary estimates always end up on the high side. Always. And then after the electronic version goes out, they’re picked up and repeated endlessly as every website’s top story. Do you not see that?

    Interestingly, I haven’t seen a “final” for a bunch of recent shows (i.e. UFC 98). Is he just slacking? Are his sources not talking? Hell, I still can’t find a final buyrate from Affliction he’s posted, in spite of him apparently knowing it. Maybe you can direct me to which issue it was?

  27. Mark says:

    MMA was just as enjoyable when both UFC and PRIDE only ran 6-8 shows a year. Of course it was great when PRIDE added Bushido with some great fights to fill the gaps, but the product did not suffer with an every-other-month PPV base. Actually, I personally liked looking forward to an upcoming event more than “ANOTHER show this month?”

    They definitely shouldn’t run a boxing sporadic big shows schedule. But doing the pro wrestling model of “run a card just for the sake of running a card” is going to bite them in the ass one day. It’s great for them now because they have a base of 300,000 buys so everything turns a profit no matter how lousy of a card. But eventually the base is going to shrink from overkill. I realize Dana loves Vince’s philosophy of “run so many cards people won’t notice your competition” but he should realize doing that meant WWE’s business never stayed consistent and their peaks last only a fraction of the time they would have if they didn’t over-flood things. WWE’s PPV bottom-base is probably less than 150K and some shows didn’t even do 100K. “Leave people wanting more” is the most ignored rule of business.

    (many will argue Bruce Mitchell might be the best pro wrestling writer, but I digress)

    Maybe his immediate family would. The line of order goes 1) Meltzer (for breaking most of the big stories) 2) Alvarez (for being funny) and at a very distant 3) Keller (I guess for “Torch Talk”.)

    Dave isn’t perfect (I have no idea how he ever passed an English class) he tends to talk like a Valley Girl on his podcast, but his track record is better than anybody else’s. Doesn’t mean it’s flawless, but his rate of correct info far outweighs the incorrect info he has reported since 1981.

    I’m telling you, not signing Fedor was a horrible moment for the UFC–they are rolling in the cash; giving the best fighter in mma history 3 million a fight guaranteed is worth it–look how thin their heavyweight division is now. Fedor v Lesnar would do more than 2 million buys

    No, it wouldn’t. Probably 800,000 tops (and I say that as a Fedor fan.) Mir-Lesnar sold because both men cut compelling promos on each other and were both well known by fans. Fedor barely speaks English, wouldn’t trash talk if he could, and none of UFC’s foreign fighters outside of GSP sell PPVs let alone one who is expected to do huge numbers his first fight in. Their big draws are Ortiz, Liddell, Hughes, Penn, Lesnar, Couture, and Griffin. It cannot be a coincidence that only one out of dozens of non-Americans they employ can sell shows. Everybody thinks running a bunch of Fedor HL footage will sell shows, but if Anderson Silva’s KO footage can’t sell shows I don’t know how a bunch of clips of Fedor arm barring people is going to do it.

  28. Alan Conceicao says:

    Even if Fedor/Lesnar did 800,000 buys, the amount of money generated would make Zuffa filthy rich paying Fedor and Lesnar 3-4 million.

  29. Alan Conceicao says:

    Actually, lemme add this too;

    As far as scheduling goes, anytime you hard schedule an event over scheduling around fights, you’re gonna have guys drop out of big main events and whatnot. I don’t know if it will be “overkill” that causes a drop in buys eventually, but probably something closer to what happened to boxing as it became more PPV intensive; its very, very difficult to create stars using PPV because you’re automatically limiting your audience to those willing to pay.

    If you’re one of those people who would prefer to hear about BIZ BIZ BIZ over the actual sport in the cage, then UFC 104 is gonna be an interesting litmus test. Machida is all by himself to sell PPVs. I have a feeling he’s not gonna be selling crazy PPVs either.

  30. Jeremy (not that Jeremy) says:

    If 104 sells 500k, then Machida will be White’s new favorite fighter. From the numbers on Wikipedia, Silva’s never broken 400k without one or more of the draws that Mark listed above (a list I agree with).

    500k is a number that you can start building a brand around when the card has no one else on it (well, Rua, but he’s a Pride guy and they’re generally not drawing either, to whit Silva vs Henderson).

  31. Mark says:

    Nobody will ever get $3-4 million to fight. If people think caving into Rampage would create anarchy, imagine what Fedor waltzing in and getting that much money would do. They’ll forever give out PPV bonuses as their enticement. It’s safe: you can give superstars big pay days but since they honestly earned it the other fighters can’t get too angry.

    Let’s say it did 800,000. That’s a gross of about $32 million, which they only see half of since they split with the PPV industry for $16 million. Let’s say they give Fedor and Lesnar 5% each (which I doubt they do, it’s more than likely 2% to each of the headliners and 1% to the co-headliners, but assume they’d be extra generous like at UFC 100) that’s $800,000 each, and if the winner got $450,000 which is as high as UFC goes, that’s a total of $1.25 million which is probably pretty close to Lesnar’s usual pay and not even close to giving Fedor the fabled biggest pay day ever that they smeared him with when he signed with Strikeforce.

  32. Alan Conceicao says:

    They offered Fedor that much (supposedly) and that’s enough. It was when Randy decided to try and leave, remember?

    They have no rational argument to not paying these guys more and they know it. Rampage isn’t going to be the last guy to hold out and he’ll get paid more eventually. I have a feeling his phone will be getting more calls on it from Zuffa post-UFC 104.

  33. Mark says:

    I’d be absolutely amazed if 104 did that much more than 103’s numbers much less 500K. I can’t wait to see Machida-Shogun as it’s going to be an excellent fight, but you’re selling two Brazilian guys and Shogun doesn’t speak English. It’s a fantastic show for the hardcores, as we’re all looking forward to Velasquez/Rothwell, Stevenson/Fisher and Johnson/Yoshida all of which are FOTN candidates. But it’s not a must-see event for the casuals. They’re not going to care about ordering a show until the Lesnar/Ortiz combo draws them back in for UFC 106.

    On a side note, according to MMA Frenzy, Rashad is fighting Thiago Silva at UFC 108. I’ve never heard of them so I don’t know their track record, so take it for what it’s worth. Yes, Danaites, fighting a guy with one of the most inflated records in MMA is sure better than fighting another former champion to be #1 contender.

  34. Alan Conceicao says:

    You’re really looking forward to that undercard? Johnson and Stevenson should roll on those guys. So should Cain, actually. Machida is so far out in front as a favorite now I think you have to really hunt for people that find it a compelling fight. Shogun is gonna get taken apart by Machida who will constantly move on the back foot.

  35. Mark says:

    It’s an entertaining card IMO.

    I remember online as soon as they announced Machida-Shogun everybody suddenly got on the Shogun bandwagon claiming Muay Thai was going to be what brings Machida down. Then as the weeks went on everybody stopped claiming that until now nobody thinks Shogun has a chance. At least with the knee jerk favoritism Fedor and GSP haters show all of their challengers (remember “GSP has never faced a wrestler like Fitch”, “Sylvia’s size is too much for Fedor”) they don’t jump off the bandwagon until the fight is over.

  36. Fluyid says:

    “White is “playing with fire” when he talks smack about boxing?

    What are those mean old boxing promoters going to do, open up shop in MMA?”

    I took the “playing with fire” comment to mean that White’s statement has the potential to turn fans off (the statement about the “stupid fucking people” who buy boxing PPVs).

    Talking down fans like that is not a good thing and that pesky media could even start quoting it all over the place, which would only remind fans of the statement.

  37. Brad Wharton says:

    @ Mark: Agree 100%

    My take on it: They expected low numbers for Belfort-Franklin (obviously), same for 104 (like you said, more for the hardcore) and they are giving 105 away for free on Spike with Couture.

    The Couture-Vera fight will no doubt be an afterthought to the 3-hour infomercial for UFC 106 that 105 will end up being.

    A week later, they have their current biggest draw, one of their all-time biggest draws and a decent undercard. All the ‘casuals’ who might not have bought 103 and 104 will be back in droves.

    I’m saying a cool million for 106.

  38. 45 Huddle says:

    My predictions would be:

    UFC 104 = 450,000
    UFC 105 = Free
    UFC 106 = 1.2 Million
    UFC 107 = 750,000
    UFC 108 = 800,000

  39. EJ says:

    “His preliminary estimates always end up on the high side. Always. And then after the electronic version goes out, they’re picked up and repeated endlessly as every website’s top story. Do you not see that?

    Interestingly, I haven’t seen a “final” for a bunch of recent shows (i.e. UFC 98). Is he just slacking? Are his sources not talking? Hell, I still can’t find a final buyrate from Affliction he’s posted, in spite of him apparently knowing it. Maybe you can direct me to which issue it was?”

    So now you’re blaming Meltzer for something he has no control over?. If people are too lazy to put in the work to tell the whole story then it’s their own fault. To try and make a conspiracy about this once again shows your desperation.

    So wait now you want to know what his estimates are?, I thought Meltzer couldn’t be counted on? this has gotten past ridiculous now.

  40. David M says:

    “White is “playing with fire” when he talks smack about boxing?
    What are those mean old boxing promoters going to do, open up shop in MMA?
    Please.”

    My post was clearly about turning off fans by insulting them. Read the post before you comment on it in the future, okay?

    I have no idea why anyone would think Fedor vs Brock would do less than Brock vs Mir. Lesnar is the biggest star in combat sports today, and Fedor does actually have a name even among casual mma fans due to the growth of the sport’s popularity, youtube, foxsports showing old Pride fights, etc. Fedor is universally considered the best fighter alive, and if you don’t think Zuffa could market him vs Brock as the fight of the century after promoting Brock against a guy who got destroyed by Ian Freeman as fight of the century, well then you are living in an entirely different world than I am. ESPN would be all over Fedor v Brock, all the mainstream outlets would, and it would be absolutely huge. I would be surprised if it got less than 2 million buys.

  41. Alan Conceicao says:

    So now you’re blaming Meltzer for something he has no control over?

    I thought he had lots of sources in the cable industry?

    If people are too lazy to put in the work to tell the whole story then it’s their own fault.

    What else does he di in regards to MMA analysis? Its not feature pieces on fighters or post fight analysis.

    So wait now you want to know what his estimates are?

    A guy as connected as Meltzer should have been able to pull together an estimate besides the pre-event one he had. Or maybe he’s not so connected? Maybe his chief buyrate contacts don’t work for the cable industry?

  42. Mark says:

    Most casual fans do not follow the internet the way we do and sure as hell didn’t watch “PRIDE on FSN”, it was damn near impossible to watch that show because it never seemed to be on at the same time, and most FSN affiliates screw up their schedule listings.

    No, most casual fans watch UFC on Spike, maybe read the Yahoo, ESPN, or Fox MMA news, which is almost exclusively about UFC-only and order the bigger shows.

    You’ve got to think what the majority of casual fans first heard about Fedor is what a loser he is for taking easy fights and refusing to sign with the UFC because he can’t pick his opponents. If you never saw Fedor and just heard Dana White say this about a fighter, would you be excited about seeing them? First impressions do matter. They’re going to think “Why are we going to believe this guy ducking competition, who is at least 40 pounds lighter than Brock has a chance?”

    They, on the other hand, saw Frank Mir beat Brock once and then beat Nogueira (who wasn’t insulted as a piece of shit by Dana.) They have no clue who Ian Freeman is much less know that he beat Mir when they probably didn’t even know UFC existed (this was in their 50,000 buy days after all.) Mir’s story about taking years to come back from a motorcycle accident that ruined his career at its peak in 2004 is far more compelling than Fedor’s story of being a journeyman after PRIDE because nobody can stay in business for long. Especially since his Fedor has been endlessly mocked by UFC for this. You can’t just say “Ha! We were just kidding about all that, he’s really quite good.”

  43. EJ says:

    “A guy as connected as Meltzer should have been able to pull together an estimate besides the pre-event one he had. Or maybe he’s not so connected? Maybe his chief buyrate contacts don’t work for the cable industry?”

    Maybe you have your head up your ass, we’ve gone around and around and it’s always the same bullshit with you. Meltzer’s track record is proven you can come up with all the conspiracy theories you want, me i’ll stay dealing with the facts. You can continue to be in denial just like all the boxing people, but in the end it won’t matter because the UFC will continue to be a ppv juggernaut and all the spin and bullshit in the world from people like you won’t stop that fact.

  44. Alan Conceicao says:

    Meltzer’s track record is proven you can come up with all the conspiracy theories you want, me i’ll stay dealing with the facts.

    “the facts”; Oddly maleable!

  45. Jeremy (not that Jeremy) says:

    I read your post, and I continue to believe that there are more boxing promoters on this planet than people who watch and enjoy both MMA and boxing.

  46. EJ says:

    “the facts; Oddly maleable!”

    Keep telling yourself that while reading everything he says, denial must be a wonderful place for people like you.

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