Friend of our site


MMA Headlines


UFC HP


Bleacher Report


MMA Fighting


MMA Torch


MMA Weekly


Sherdog (News)


Sherdog (Articles)


Liver Kick


MMA Junkie


MMA Mania


MMA Ratings


Rating Fights


Yahoo MMA Blog


MMA Betting


Search this site



Latest Articles


News Corner


MMA Rising


Audio Corner


Oddscast


Sherdog Radio


Video Corner


Fight Hub


Special thanks to...

Link Rolodex

Site Index


To access our list of posting topics and archives, click here.

Friend of our site


Buy and sell MMA photos at MMA Prints

Site feedback


Fox Sports: "Zach Arnold's Fight Opinion site is one of the best spots on the Web for thought-provoking MMA pieces."

« | Home | »

Fedor, Werdum, and Strikeforce

By Zach Arnold | August 3, 2009

Print Friendly and PDF

So Fabricio Werdum is off the 8/15 San Jose show, but hey – look at the bright side — Strikeforce now has Fedor.

Obviously, Showtime plays a major role in terms of who Strikeforce books and what the network wants to see. So, how much did they pony up to get Fedor? Remember, it was Showtime that was pushing the Affliction show hard during Strikeforce telecasts, so clearly the network knows who Fedor is and wanted him.

As for the whole “co-promotion” deal that M-1 always angles for, well it makes a lot of sense with Strikeforce and none with UFC. Why should UFC pay 50% of any show they promote with Fedor on the card when 95% of the people watching UFC buy it because of their loyalty to the brand? (Alan disputes the loyalty factor here, but when your floor is 325,000 buys a show… People arguing that there is no brand to a loyalty are forgetting that most of the ‘stars’ headlining these shows were created or pushed by the UFC marketing machine.)

Strikeforce, however, doesn’t rake in the cash like UFC, so splitting costs and revenues 50/50 is a pretty easy pill for them to swallow. Plus, we know that for a company like Strikeforce with a limited-size office that running a lot of Challenger shows requires resources if you aren’t dealing with sold shows (i.e. guaranteed money). We’ve seen M-1 run a lot of strange shows in Seattle and KC and so forth. If M-1 wants to continue doing that, Strikeforce can just piggyback on it and Showtime will provide the TV money to do it for the smaller shows. It makes some sense.

I would have published Strikeforce’s statement on the Fedor signing, but I’m not on their mailing list so I’m not all cool like that or whatnot.

If you’re a UFC fan who is bummed out about not seeing Fedor in the cage… chances are, and history seems to indicate this, eventually he will end up facing a UFC-or-go-home situation. The positive take on Dana White’s side here is that he’s watched Fedor’s stock incrementally go up in the States without having to pay a dime for it. Plus, look at all the promotions Fedor has fought for that have gone out of business. Now, you can say that Strikeforce will be the exception to the rule, but unless they start getting a lot of heavyweights to build up depth in a division without a lot of depth in the first place, eventually there will be no other real option other than UFC. So, if you’re in Dana White’s position, just step back and watch the circus and see what happens from there.

All of the chips have moved on the table to the Fedor option for Strikeforce. How much money is left for the promotion?

As for prognostications that this move is a gamechanger, well… Fedor hasn’t been a game-changer since PRIDE died. What the move does allow is for Fedor to still be able to fight in Japan because Strikeforce will co-promote with others. Remember, Scott Coker has a long history with Kazuyoshi Ishii, so the idea that we could see Fedor on NYE in Japan is not out of the realm of possibility. In fact, it makes a lot of sense. If Strikeforce can get into the mix with K-1, then we could certainly see Fedor vs. Barnett in Japan and we could see some K-1/DREAM talent coming stateside shortly.

Topics: M-1, Media, MMA, Zach Arnold | 81 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |

81 Responses to “Fedor, Werdum, and Strikeforce”

  1. Alan Conceicao says:

    Just a note on the talk that the UFC may try to hold Fedor to his Affliction contract: Assuming its transferrable, the terms and conditions still would stick to any future Fedor fight in the UFC. They may be willing to try that gambit with Mousasi since he’s not likely to have half as much tied into his contract. With Fedor? I’m sure M-1 might jump at the chance to have a one fight, 7 figure payout with the UFC that’s co-promoted.

  2. Mark says:

    Are you arguing it wasn’t? Can you name the programming Spike/TNN had then besides the WWE & then UFC?

    Define “fringe channel”. That the “television for men” persona turns people off? That their programming is considered low brow?

    To me “fringe channel” means low-rated. Yes, Spike originally had some absolute duds for programming like Stripperella and their failed attempt to relaunch Ren & Stimpy, but they’ve been consistently ranked a top 20 cable channel by Nielsen’s weekly rankings since they cut out the country slant of the network, so I hardly call that “fringe”, whether you like the programming or not. I don’t like anything Spike does, but they’re far more watched than Versus is.

    Moreover you’re making my point for me, the WWE [u]brand[/u] took those ratings to another channel and did well. So was it Spike’s exposure or the WWE brand?

    It was Monday Night Raw being the #1 cable program, that it’s the WWE doesn’t matter. It could have been any top rated cable show to draw eyes to them. They also aired WWE Heat, WWE Velocity, and WWE Confidential during their relationship with them from 2000-2005, and none of those shows came close, they didn’t even get half the ratings. It’s no different than comparing taking off the #2 show behind Raw Spongebob Squarepants and put it on another network, it would survive without the Nickelodeon “brand”.

    And of course those equal ratings have lead to equal ppv success right? Before we bring up unfavorable deals with Spike, lets not forget the UFC paid them to air TUF.

    What does TNA not selling pay per views have to do with anything?

    And TUF is hardly the only show on cable to either pay for their timeslot or sacrifice ad revenue in exchange for it. Even the aforementioned TNA and WWE give up the majority of their ad revenue as a payment to be on the air. Pro wrestling is almost always pay-to-air programming. And lots of cable shows pay-to-air and try to sell pay per view or DVDs or merchandise to make their money.

    but that’s neither here nor there, answer the question I posed to you [Is this a serious argument? How long would the NFL last without TV? Certainly you don’t believe the NFL lacks brand loyalty?], and I’ll decide whether it’s worth my time to continue this argument.

    I really don’t give a rat’s ass if you want to argue with me or not, since I have no idea who you are. How long would the NFL last without TV? Teams would be going defunct one by one since they couldn’t afford the contracts they signed anymore and would be filling for bankruptcy. Brand loyalty? Of course. But there is no other football in America besides the NFL outside of college games, so what does that mean? Should we pat UFC on the back if they’re the only promotion left standing and it becomes “watch UFC or don’t watch MMA period?” I don’t think so. They swallowed the American Football League decades ago, yet they had players good enough that were highly respected players who the NFL purchased to merge. You didn’t hear “Joe Namath is too afraid of NFL defenses to want to leave the AFL.” Actually, when the Super Bowl NFL vs. AFL games took place, the AFL won Super Bowl’s 3 and 4.

  3. Ivan Trembow says:

    lol at UFC PPV distributor Yahoo Sports already portraying the situation as Strikeforce “stealing” Fedor from the UFC while Dana White was in Abu Dhabi, and continuing to repeat the lie (which Kevin Iole first stated) that Affliction’s return to the UFC fold had anything to do with Scott Coker being in Italy… because, you know, they don’t have Internet access, telephones, or fax machines in Italy…

  4. Ivan Trembow says:

    I also look forward to the reputation-damage-control from “mmalogic,” who last week “95% guaranteed” that Fedor would be fighting Brock in September, and “100% guaranteed” that Fedor’s next fight would be in the UFC, even after the UFC’s Friday press conference. This must be why that guy makes $3,000 per hour, which is another claim that he made last week.

  5. Body_Shots says:

    [It was Monday Night Raw being the #1 cable program, that it’s the WWE doesn’t matter.] It could have been any top rated cable show to draw eyes to them. They also aired WWE Heat, WWE Velocity, and WWE Confidential during their relationship with them from 2000-2005, and none of those shows came close, they didn’t even get half the ratings. It’s no different than comparing taking off the #2 show behind Raw Spongebob Squarepants and put it on another network, it would survive without the Nickelodeon “brand”.]

    Ok–you’re an id–t, I’m sorry but there’s no other word that is more appropriate for a person who spews that kind of drivel.

    The fact that you don’t want to admit the NFL has brand loyalty should let others further know your intelligence level.

  6. 45 Huddle says:

    Sorry to bring a little geek speak into this, but this whole thing reminded me of the last lines of Star Wars Episode II…. With a little MMA flavor to it…

    Mike Afromowitz: I have to admit that without Fedor, it would have not been a victory.

    Scott Coker: Victory? Victory you say? Master Afrowitz, not victory. The shroud of the UFC has fallen. Begun the Fedor War has.

    **** Camera Pans to thousands of fighters outside the UFC being signed to UFC contracts…. ****

  7. Mark says:

    An internet writer claimed to make $3,000 an hour or claimed Dana made $3,000 an hour?

    Also, I see Dana is now calling Fedor “a joke”. So he’s actually burying himself by wanting to give “a joke” the “biggest contract in MMA history” last week. Good job.

  8. Ivan Trembow says:

    Fedor’s contract with Strikeforce is being reported on MMAWeekly as a three-fight deal. Fedor also said in a Sherdog video interview last week that he has three fights remaining on his M-1 Global contract. Also in that video interview, he said that he is fulfilling his obligations to M-1, and that after the remaining three fights have taken place, then “We’ll see.”

    This sets up a scenario in which three fights from now, Fedor would be contractually free from both Strikeforce and M-1 Global. At that point, he’d be a true free agent.

  9. Ivan Trembow says:

    “An internet writer claimed to make $3,000 an hour or claimed Dana made $3,000 an hour?”

    “mmalogic,” the UFC astroturfer on Bloody Elbow, claimed that he (“mmalogic”) makes $3,000 per hour, and that his advice is worth 10 to 100 times that amount to any market leader (which would be $30,000 to $300,000 per hour).

  10. Mark says:

    Ok–you’re an id–t, I’m sorry but there’s no other word that is more appropriate for a person who spews that kind of drivel.

    The fact that you don’t want to admit the NFL has brand loyalty should let others further know your intelligence level.

    You’re missing my point: the carryover rating from the Raw rating elevated The National Network in Nielsen overall status. My point was any popular show would have. If the WWE brand was so strong then why weren’t the other 3 shows successes? And why didn’t “the WWE brand” give any other Spike show much of a rub until Ultimate Fighter? The Dudesons, Gary The Rat, no other TNN/Spike show lasted as a follow except Star Trek.

    And I said “Brand loyalty? Of course.” But my point was you can’t compare football to MMA when there’s one football league on television and 3 televised leagues in MMA.

    And why did you censor “idiot”?

  11. 45 Huddle says:

    The WWE RAW made TUF popular. I didn’t even think that was debatable.

    Fabricio Werdum vs. Mike Kyle for August 15th…. Excuse me if I don’t get overly excited.

  12. Mark says:

    Re: MMALogic

    Ah, I found this in a search doubt it’s true though As much as we’ve all wondered if 45Huddle is really a Fertita, I doubt UFC would be so petty to send internet trolls to message boards. If there are Zuffa employees who do try to work in propaganda, they do it on their own time.

    RE: Raw helped TUF

    It is debatable to the purists who don’t want to believe pro wrestling had anything to do with UFC’s success. They’re the ones that say word of mouth spread over the course of the season leading up to the Bonnar-Griffin finale, even though TUF was a certified success very early on. I think by episode 3 Spike was looking for more seasons and not the Dana story of “we didn’t know if we’d be on Spike until the Finale was a success” story.

    I think eventually it would have caught on, but not as quickly. So many pro wrestling fans came on board due to the placement and now pretend they never watched pro wrestling to look cooler.

  13. Jeremy (not that Jeremy) says:

    Clearly UFC is going to take this as a challenge from Strikeforce. Counterprogramming is a given. If Strikeforce doesn’t have Sobral locked up, now is the time to do it, because I could definitely see UFC trying to take him away (IMHO he’s still one of the best active LHWs and I’d like to see him on a three fight UFC deal hopefully leading up to a title shot).

    My bigger concern is that this is not the way that Strikeforce does things. Their history has generally been to be extremely cautious, trying not to overextend. The Showtime deal was a significant risk compared to everything they had done previously, and they’ve had only a handful of cards on Showtime so far. They’re taking on partners and I wonder if Scott Coker is signing away his control in the process. Strikeforce is rapidly changing from a very well run promotion with cards full of fair to middling fights with one or two star fighters per card to a promotion that’s going to have to run A to AAA cards just to break even.

    Good luck to them, this is the kind of jump into empty air that I would generally not take.

  14. anon says:

    #60- couldn’t they even find a hw for werdum to fight? (kyle just beat feijao at lhw last month) actually feijao was heavily favored, and kyle laid him out. could we see another Cigano “surprise? that would leave SF 1 less hw oponent for fedor. LOL.

  15. Mr.Roadblock says:

    Does anyone want to explain to me how Werdum or Overeem are near let alone in the HW Top 10?

  16. 45 Huddle says:

    For the mmalogic haters…. He broke the news on the C&D Letter Zuffa sent to Strikeforce concerning Mousasi. Before it was announced on Beatdown by Strikeforce.

    As for the Heavyweight Top 10….

    It’s the same logic that put Arlovski at #2. Which is no logic.

    Alistair Overeem’s biggest win is over Paul Buentello. He really hasn’t done anything besides that. Not to mention that was 2007. He’s not even in the Top 15 right now if you put together a real Top 15 list.

    Werdum is at least in the Top 15…

    It all boils down to the common issue, which is people outside of the UFC get ranked higher then they should.

  17. IceMuncher says:

    Mr. Roadblock, when talking about Fedor’s possible opponents, Fedor fans forget things like the fact that Werdum < Dos Santos and that Overeem has been beat by some current UFC LHW fighters and has done nothing of note in MMA since.

    In Strikeforce, Fedor will be fighting mediocre competition that he should beat handily. Nobody in that group is a top tier HW that could actually threaten Fedor. Where’s the fun in watching that? It’s like watching GSP take on Lytle. It’s a win, but it’s not interesting on any level other than as a platform to showcase skill.

  18. IceMuncher says:

    “The rest is impertinent filler. I don’t need to justify myself to you or him.”

    Of course. Why defend your positions against reasoned counter arguments? It’s easier to be dismissive than proven wrong.

    “Anyways, what was my stance again that was so wrong? I’m guessing this has to do with “UFC hating” and PRIDE/Affliction/some merger of the two.”

    As you said earlier, you argued with 45 for months about whether Arlovski was a draw and worth the money Affliction was doling out. He obviously wasn’t. And since I’m pretty sure I know what side he was on, that means you were dead wrong.

  19. 45 Huddle says:

    From Cindy O…. She is even saying people can ask Mousasi to verify this…. Isn’t Mousasi’s management M-1 as well?

    “Mousasi was lied to about the amount of money the UFC offered him by his manager and encouraged to sign with Strikeforce for less than half of the purse amount. Mousasi found out and verified it with the UFC and then confronted his management. I don’t know what happened after that.

    He is PISSED and anyone in the media can ask him- I see no reason why he would lie.”

    Things are getting interesting.

  20. 45 Huddle says:

    And IceMuncher is correct. Alan was 100% wrong on this one. Of course, Alan never admits he is wrong. He just throws out insults to push the conversation into a different direction.

    Heck, I know not everybody will agree with my viewpoints, but at least I back them up and try and be respectful. Can’t say the same for Alan.

  21. Mr.Roadblock says:

    For what it is worth, I have heard from people with valid track records over the years that Fedor has nothing to do with his business decisions. His management makes his deals and that’s it. Fedor lives in a modest home and his family is taken care of. Also that he knows not to get out of line with his management.

    As disappointed as I am in this decision. And I don’t think he should be the top HW anymore. It probably isn’t entirely Fedor’s fault.

  22. Oops! says:

    Fedor is the top heavyweight till he retire’s or goes on a streak of a couple losses or He fight’s Zulu, Hong man Choi and other Crappy fighters in a row. But till then he’s Number 1.

  23. Rene Levesque-Caline says:

    More competition is better for all.

    And if this means Fedor can fight stateside (and maybe roll with Nick Diaz at his dojo!) AND in Japan, then everyone wins.

    Coker is a pleasure to listen to, no pomp or ego, just a lifelong martial artist doing things right.
    Hes got some Showtime shows and some CBS possibilities so its all good for fans.
    Its of course not good if you are a UFC fan first and foremost. THen, anything that could hurt your precious is your mortal enemy and you will spout the predigested crap your are spoonfed.
    Remember, this week Tito is cool and doenst suck and Tim Sylvia sucks still (that of course is subject to change if he resigns with the UFC in which case Timmy will be great again).

    Im all for allowing japanese fighters to come here and guys like Jake Shields go over there for some fights. Yeah, its a bit risky with injuries and such but not any more than it is now.

    Anyways, its not like I pay to watch live events anyway, none are ever in my city (besides, the prices are ridiculous while the view is usually crappy but hey… you get to BE there!).
    Good cards I will pony up for PPV and the rest I will catch on CubanNET and on the internet.
    So I could care less where fighters fight and even less if its another country.
    If the Korean org where the two other Emelianenko brothers fight and Art of War in China do well, that will make for more MMA on satellite/internet, more options for fighters and that’s all I care.

    Marketing, name familiarity are the last things I care about which is why you will never convince me that Chris Leben and Patrice Cote are worthy of being in a main event as opposed to someone whos followed their wacky, zany and prepackaged reality TV stints.

    I will however at least pay attention when world champions like Xande Ribeiro, champion of Sambo Blagoj Ivanov, wrestling champion Joe Warren or some judo medalist enter the ring for the first time. Their prior accomplishments warrant such an interest. Or at least a lot more than had it been some nobody jerking himself off on other fighters.

    What are the odds that Fedor vs Barnett could be worked out in Japan seeing how Fedor is on the DREAM side will Barnett is Sengoku?
    Could they work together to make this happen?

  24. Mr.Roadblock says:

    “I will however at least pay attention when world champions like Xande Ribeiro, champion of Sambo Blagoj Ivanov, wrestling champion Joe Warren or some judo medalist enter the ring for the first time. Their prior accomplishments warrant such an interest. Or at least a lot more than had it been some nobody jerking himself off on other fighters.”

    So you must be really disappointed too then that Fedor/his management elected not to fight 2x NCAA Heavyweight Champ Brock Lesnar. And the new crop of gigantic, quick, great wresting, heavy-handed fighters in Shane Carwin and Cain Velasquez.

    This is where your argument and Alan’s falls apart. Having the top fighters hide from each other in non-cooperative organizations is not good for fans. It sucks. It is what killed boxing in America.

    Your whole post is full of contradictions. You are also wrong about there being bad seats at UFC events. I’ve been to about 2 dozen UFC shows. I usually sit cageside or in the first couple rows going up. I snuck two buddies in to the Forrest/Shogun fight in Anaheim and we actually watched it from behind the monitor in the second to last row of the Honda center. Saw everything just fine.

  25. Jeremy (not that Jeremy) says:

    Werdum got unlucky and fell off the map for a while, that doesn’t mean that he’s finished.

    Someone really needs to decide whether or not Fedor is actually an idiot who does whatever his handlers say he does or not. We’ve got people here saying that they’ve heard that he just does whatever he’s told and we’ve got Josh Gross saying that he’s heard that, no, in fact he’s the smiling Don behind the M-1 desk.

    Which one is it?

  26. Alan Conceicao says:

    As you said earlier, you argued with 45 for months about whether Arlovski was a draw

    LOL, I never even did that! You guys are hilarious.

  27. Alan Conceicao says:

    This is where your argument and Alan’s falls apart. Having the top fighters hide from each other in non-cooperative organizations is not good for fans. It sucks. It is what killed boxing in America.

    “my argument”? Oh, lawd. Maybe you should review my actual posts?

    If your argument is that the casual fan doesn’t know who Fedor is or care about him(which is pretty universally argued, though I think there’s a grain of mistruth there), then obviously it would have no negative repercussions on the sport of MMA if he didn’t fight Brock Lesnar. It wouldn’t be like Lewis/Bowe, more or less as it didn’t really affect boxing that Terry Norris never unified with Gianfranco Rosi or that Lennox Lewis never set his sights on John Ruiz.

  28. Mark says:

    Someone really needs to decide whether or not Fedor is actually an idiot who does whatever his handlers say he does or not. We’ve got people here saying that they’ve heard that he just does whatever he’s told and we’ve got Josh Gross saying that he’s heard that, no, in fact he’s the smiling Don behind the M-1 desk.

    Which one is it?

    Like I’ve said dozens of times, it’s the MMA fan logic of “You’re strong enough to mentally take the pain of training and fighting, but when you make a decision I don’t like you’re a weak puppydog who cowers to Jenna/Kim/Vadim/Monte.”

    All this talk about “I heard Fedor has a small house so he must be an idiot who lets his manager control him and steal his money.” Maybe the guy just doesn’t care about material possessions. Just because you’re a millionaire doesn’t mean you have to live like Floyd Mayweather Jr. And just because you’re frugal doesn’t mean your manager is stealing your money.

    If your argument is that the casual fan doesn’t know who Fedor is or care about him(which is pretty universally argued, though I think there’s a grain of mistruth there), then obviously it would have no negative repercussions on the sport of MMA if he didn’t fight Brock Lesnar. It wouldn’t be like Lewis/Bowe, more or less as it didn’t really affect boxing that Terry Norris never unified with Gianfranco Rosi or that Lennox Lewis never set his sights on John Ruiz.

    Exactly. Fedor-haters can’t have it both ways. Either he never drew a dime, either he’s overrated by fighting easy fights or him not going to the UFC hurts the sport. It’s one or the other. But much like Dana White, you love or hate Fedor when it’s convenient for you.

    And most of the dream fights in boxing happen. There are some the hardcore boxing fans wanted to see that didn’t happen, but all the ones that could have drawn any amount of money happen. It’s another Dana myth that guys in rival organizations don’t fight each other. What do you call all the title unification fights that happen each and every year, then?

  29. Mr. Roadblock says:

    It’s not either way. Peopleare going to be running around for the next two years saying Fedor is the best. During that time he will be beati g up subpar competition. That is bad for the sport. Bottom line it won’t hurt ufc much because fedor has a small audience.

    Like I said earlier for you guys that want half a dozen big orgs you will get what boxing got. Fractured divisions and less fan interest.

    Alan, I’m pretty sure you say ludicrous things just to argue. Lennox Lewis didn’t both with Ruiz because Ruiz is and was trash. Completely irrelevant as a fighter. Even to the Puerto Rican fanbase he was supposed to bring. Ruiz was on the same level as Alastair Overeem is in todays MMA landscape.

  30. Alan Conceicao says:

    Peopleare going to be running around for the next two years saying Fedor is the best. During that time he will be beati g up subpar competition. That is bad for the sport. Bottom line it won’t hurt ufc much because fedor has a small audience.

    I expect him to fight Overeem and Rogers (and god knows who else), and my ultimate expectation is that he probably won’t fight super top guys. Then again, who knows? We said that before and Andrei and Big Timmy bounced out. I’ll let what actually transpires next judge him. Honestly, if we get Lesnar/Noguiera and Fedor fights Rogers, I know which fight I’m more interested in.

    Lennox Lewis didn’t both with Ruiz because Ruiz is and was trash. Completely irrelevant as a fighter. Even to the Puerto Rican fanbase he was supposed to bring. Ruiz was on the same level as Alastair Overeem is in todays MMA landscape.

    Is Fedor a big name to MMA fans? If he’s not, then what does it matter if Brock doesn’t fight him? I’m pretty sure it doesn’t then matter.

  31. Joseph says:

    “For the mmalogic haters…. He broke the news on the C&D Letter Zuffa sent to Strikeforce concerning Mousasi. Before it was announced on Beatdown by Strikeforce.”

    No, he didn’t.

Comments

*
To prove you're a person (not a spam script), type the security word shown in the picture.
Anti-spam image