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« | Home | »

Quick thoughts on UFC 95

By Zach Arnold | February 22, 2009

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I will send out an update tomorrow to those of you on the mailing list with media links covering the aftermath of UFC’s London event from last night. If you haven’t signed up for the mailing list, go sign up.

OK, onto some quick observations:

Topics: Media, MMA, UFC, UK, Zach Arnold | 36 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |

36 Responses to “Quick thoughts on UFC 95”

  1. Ivan Trembow says:

    Maia and Marquardt were impressive, but they should still have to stand in line for a title shot behind Yushin Okami and his 7-1 UFC record.

    Also, was I the only one who noticed that one of the sponsors on Dan Hardy’s sponsorship banner was “HGH Infusion”?

    I also can’t believe that Spike TV continues to falsely represent that the tape-delayed UFC U.K. broadcasts are “Live” in the corner of the screen. Even after many members of the media have called them out on this practice in the past, they still continue to do it.

  2. The Citizen says:

    Joe Rogan is ok, but he was openly dissing Thiago’s hands, when really, there was no reason to do it. Koscheck was sloppy and got caught.

    I’m not a fan of the distinct line of bias that both Rogan and GBerg show — as if they pick a fighter and call a one sided fight no matter what.

    At one point GBerg said “he wants to explode. . ”

    I wondered what would have happened if the fighter actually did explode. Is it too much to ask for a slightly higher level of vocabulary and insight?

  3. Ivan Trembow says:

    The Citizen— I agree with you that sometimes the commentators favor one particular fighter in a fight, especially if they have trained with that fighter in the past. For a good example, listen to the commentary in Dan Hardy’s previous UFC fight, a gift decision win over Akihiro Gono. As the announcers go on and on about how Hardy is winning, Gono is clearly outstriking Hardy for two rounds in the three-round fight.

  4. Sicmo says:

    “None of the ex-WEC and ex-IFL fighters seem to be doing very well in the UFC cage…”

    I can link you to Cantwell’s and the Miller Bros’ emails if you’d like to tell them this yourself.

  5. 45 Huddle says:

    “I also can’t believe that Spike TV continues to falsely represent that the tape-delayed UFC U.K. broadcasts are “Live” in the corner of the screen. Even after many members of the media have called them out on this practice in the past, they still continue to do it.”

    This is a COMMON practice in TV. some shows that are called “live” really aren’t, but as long as they don’t edit the content (like take out a minute of the round), and show it close to the date, it can be called “live”. Stupid yes, but the UFC isn’t the only ones on TV to do so.

    As for Josh Koscheck…. I believe he never watches video on any of his opponents. His “improved striking” really isn’t improved. He throws wild strikes, and he got caught with an upper cut which ic a perfect counter to his attack.

    The UFC is so stacked right now. The number of title contenders per weight class is insane, and only getting greater.

  6. He was openly dissing Thiago’s hands because Thiago’s hands were bad. Rogan is liked by many fans for being brutally honest, and he was right. Thiago’s standup really isn’t that great, and he definitely got lucky in this matchup.

  7. Jeremy says:

    Joe Silva congratulates the winners at every show. I don’t know that we saw anymore of him here.

    While I dislike “live” tape delays, it has been going on for ages.

    45,

    I do think Kos’ striking has improved, he is still prone to wildness in search of KOs, but it has improved.

    Paulo is going to get killed in his next bout. I am not one to call wins flukes, but he looked bad prior to the win.

  8. Ultimo Santa says:

    re: Wanderlei Silva’s Prediction of Maia defeating Anderson Silva:

    We know the only ‘hole’ in Silva’s game is wrestling/takedown defense. The big question is that once you get him down, what the hell do you do?

    Lutter and Marquardt took him down. Same with Franklin. Dan Herderson took Silva down and hammerfisted his face for the better part of R1…and then was beaten senseless and choked out in R2.

    I agree with Wanderlei – someone exceptional in BJJ is probably the only antidote. But that person needs to survive long enough standing. Irvin and Franklin are really good strikers, and Silva made them look like cross-eyed special ed kids taking their first karate class.

  9. Alan Conceicao says:

    Decent event. Paulo Thiago’s standup had all the smoothness of a robot bouncing around, but he still landed the big shot in the end. Unfortunately, it was really the only surprise of the night.

    Ex-IFL and WEC talent in the UFC: Well, both were minor leagues, right? I don’t think of Sonnen as a “former WEC fighter” because he probably has about as many fights in the UFC prior to being in the WEC as he did fight there. Anyone telling themselves that Sonnen was a “world champion” of anything must have had an active imagination. Besides, one ex-“IFL fighter” on this card moved up a division and won a fight. Sure, Neil Grove sucks and everyone who thought he had a chance had never watched him, but who cares about that?

    Kos: Koscheck abandoned wrestling in favor of striking to, in essence, elongate his UFC career. Not because he wouldn’t have deserved a slot, but because they wouldn’t have kept him if he still wrestled guys down. So while his hands are better now, he’s still abandoning what he actually does very well in the hopes he gets to stay around. Now that he’s been KOed by a nobody, I’m guessing they’ll go back to the negotiating table about his contract being too big.

    Interesting note about the “regional army” thing too: You say that to start with then note that Dan Hardy didn’t exactly get the place to explode. The only number in terms of live gate thus far is that it was “slightly over $1 million dollars”, which makes it a lower take in terms of tickets than UFC 93, an event held in an arena half the size of the O2 in London. Just sayin’.

  10. Dave says:

    I feel bad for Koscheck. He has adapted his style to a more TV and payout friendly style, when his wrestling is outstanding. If he would mix the two, I don’t know. He was doing fine standing up last night. I’m not a fan of running down a fighter’s win and saying they got lucky, but Paulo got extremely lucky after all of that shitty stand up.

    At this point I don’t care about building Maia up to a title shot. UFC doesn’t seem to really care about rankings and who ‘deserves’ what when Okami has been looked over and at heavyweight Brock Lesnar was rushed into being champion after showing so little. I think we’ve seen that UFC will just do what they want.

    I think that whole division looks great right now and there are a lot of deserving contenders, like Marquardt, Okami, Maia after a few more fights. I’m still not sure how Leites got this shot other than beating Nate..

  11. 45 Huddle says:

    Koscheck wouldn’t have been dropped if he stayed with his purely wrestling style. Zuffa has always been very loyal to the early TUF stars. And just because he is learning striking, doesn’t mean he has to rely on it all the time. He even admitted that he didn’t stick to the gameplan again Alves, which I assumed meant making more then one takedown attempt during a 15 minute fight. I just see it as a fighter learning new tools, and now thinking he is some sort of striker, which he just isn’t.

    As for the Middleweight Division… It is sort of in a mess, but at least there are legit challengers at this point. Marquardt, Henderson, Bisping, Maia, & Okami. That is a solid list of contenders who all could be a legit title contender. We already know Bisping/Henderson is happening at UFC 100. Of the remaining 3 (Nete, Damien, & Yushin), 2 of those guys need to be fighting each other for their next fight.

  12. Wolverine says:

    @ Ultimo Santa

    Actually Lutter passed Silva’s guard with ease, but he went for this sloppy armbar from mount and lost position.

  13. klown says:

    We all agree the Leites shot is unjustified, but it’s reality. Unless Maia wants to sit around for 6 months, he’ll fight one more time before a title shot.

    The logical match-up is against Okami. Maia has a high chance of finishing Okami and not dragging to a decision. That would do the UFC, and many fans, a huge favor by derailing Okami. It would make Maia’s legitimacy undisputed.

    I’m not excited about Henderson and Marquardt rematching A.Silva after he smashed them. They should be firmly behind Okami and Maia (and Bisping, on the off-chance that he wins).

    If Henderson were to return to 185, it would be a cool to pit him against Marquardt for the right to rematch Silva. But if Henderson sticks to LHW, Marquardt can take on Sonnen and settle the question of Sonnen’s worth.

    If W.Silva beats Franklin, he’s already in the mix at MW. Assuming Marquardt beats Sonnen and W.Silva beats Franklin, picture a #1 contender pitting W.Silva vs Marquardt – that would be awesome.

  14. Iain says:

    Are you serious on the topic of Dan Hardy’s Calzaghe comments possibly souring the public’s reaction?

    Not to sound like a dick, I just wanted to point out there is absolutely no correlation but you may have said it as a joke, so meh.

  15. Wolverine says:

    @ klown

    Maia couldn’t finish Okami in ADCC, I don’t think he has a “high chance of finishing him” in MMA.

    If UFC really want to take care of “Okami titleshot threat” they should match up him with Marquardt, who is better striker, and Yushin won’t be able to take him down.

  16. klown says:

    I didn’t know about the ADCC match! Interesting…

    Okami vs Marquardt does make a lot of sense too.

  17. Rollo the Cat says:

    Someone in Koschek’s camp made a comment after the fight about a “pattern” of early stoppages last night. I was thinking exactly the same thing when I was watching it. Perhaps the UFC told the refs to stop the fights on any sort of flash KO, or anything resembling a flash KO.

    I thought the card was almost ruined by some of those ref decisions.

  18. Jeremy (not that Jeremy) says:

    An unnamed source in my camp made a comment about a “pattern” of unnamed sources in camps making any excuse for losing.

  19. Jeremy (not that Jeremy) says:

    I’ve been running some ratings in the wake of UFC 95. To my surprise Tito Ortiz is showing up in the UFC LHW Top 10 now. Everyone that he was losing to or drawing with has turned out to be a fantastic fighter, and retrospectively his stock is rising.

    I hate him, but I think there’s an argument to be made that he should be brought back for some rematches.

  20. Rollo the Cat says:

    Jeremy, whoever you are,

    The video was posted on the UG. I just couldn’t tell who was saying what.

    Thanks buddy.

  21. Alan Conceicao says:

    Koscheck wouldn’t have been dropped if he stayed with his purely wrestling style. Zuffa has always been very loyal to the early TUF stars.

    They’re loyal to the guys who were entertaining. Kos as LnP wrestler wasn’t, even if he was effective. He would have been told he didn’t deserve Diego Sanchez money and been on his way last year during negotiations. He might be told that now, matter of fact. Do I blame the UFC? No. But I can recognize what it is.

    As for the middleweights, listen, the second best middleweight in the UFC is Dan Henderson. Third is Rich Franklin. If Okami gets a title shot that’s nice and everything, but he really doesn’t deserve one either until he beats one of the other top guys or maybe Marqhardt or Maia. I don’t blame Dana for not bothering with that guy. Let him prove himself.

  22. 45 Huddle says:

    The problem with the way Zuffa is handling Okami is that they are not giving him those chances to prove himself. He got Franklin on short notice, and sense then, hasn’t been given one fight that would get him closer to a title shot.

  23. The Citizen says:

    Thiago was not boxing like Ali — but bad? I really didn’t think so. Chris Leben — that is a great example of “bad hands” but obviously Thiago’s hands weren’t that bad because I saw the uppercut land nice.

    The man won the fight with his hands. In my opinion, he can’t be that bad.

  24. klown says:

    Jeremy, I have Ortiz in my LHW Top 10.

    We all know Ortiz has deteriorated; the question is, can he hang with this crowd? The answer is yes, if we look at the evidence. For one thing, he has faced tougher opposition than anyone else on the list. He’s fought 5 of the Top 10 LHWs. Only Liddell has faced as many Top 10 LHWs.

    Ortiz gone the distance [by my own rankings] #1 Evans , #2 Griffin, #6 W.Silva and #9 Machida, holding a record of 2-1-1 against this bunch. Furthermore, all were decisions that were debatable to varying degrees (except maybe Machida).

    Then of course, there are 2 TKOs to Liddell in his prime. And since when is it held against a fighter to lose to Liddell and Machida?

    Ironically, Machida owes his presence in the Top 10 only to Ortiz’s Top 10 status. Besides Ortiz, Machida has beaten no one in the LHW Top 10. His next greatest accomplishment is Sokoudjou.

    So if you don’t want Ortiz in your Top 10, you have no case for putting Machida’s name on the list. He’s fought not one of those guys! Being undefeated means nothing if you’ve only fought mid-level competition.

  25. Alan Conceicao says:

    The problem with the way Zuffa is handling Okami is that they are not giving him those chances to prove himself.

    Then maybe he should do better than take mediocre middleweights to decisions every time out. People talk crap about Leites but at least he has a win over a top 10 middleweight.

    As for this revisionism about Ortiz, c’mon. By the time he fights again, his lone wins in 3 years will be in bouts with Ken Shamrock.

  26. Joseph says:

    45 Huddle Says:

    “The UFC is so stacked right now. The number of title contenders per weight class is insane, and only getting greater.”

    Another way of saying this is that their are no clear cut #1 contender for many classes because the champion is on a different level than everyone else. This of course doesn’t apply to HW and LHW, where they will rotate every title shot.

  27. IceMuncher says:

    Those challengers are more dangerous than you give them credit for.

    It’s very common for certain champions to be built up as being unbeatable heroes in the public’s mind. Many also tend to ignore or downplay the fact that back in the day, Hughes was considered as unbeatable as GSP and Silva are considered today. As further evidence, you can also consider fighters like Chuck, Wanderlei, Gomi, and Franklin, and how dominant and unstoppable they appeared to be in their prime.

    However, there’s a reason the most consecutive title defenses in the UFC currently stands at 5. Things are always in a constant state of flux. I’d be willing to put down quite a bit of money that in two years, there will have been a new MW, WW, or LW champion.

  28. Rohan says:

    Iain – Hardy certainly went down in my estimation and I mentioned it to my mates who thought he was a dick because of it. The question i guess is how much of the crowd in the O2 knew.

    When I’ve been before it’s normally a mix of relatively hardcore fans with their mates, groups of casuals (who are primarily idiots idiots), the more obvious dickhead elements of the martial arts and boxing scene. So who knows.

  29. Jeremy (not that Jeremy) says:

    Also, I should note that Ortiz is my number 10 within UFC right now, but Henderson and Franklin are both in the LHW list because that’s where their last fight was. All promotions he’s 14, but if you exclude Henderson and Franklin and Wanderlei, he’s in spitting distance with a single win, because he’s not that far behind Forrest.

    Which would be the first guy I would put him against if he came back to UFC. Then I’d give him the loser of Evans vs Jackson. If he wins both those, you have a massively rehabilitated career. If he loses one, then you’ve got a good foil as a gateway guy. I wouldn’t let him anywhere near a title, but giving him quality opponents is his due at the moment.

  30. 45 Huddle says:

    Ortiz doesn’t have a win in 2 years and 4 months.

    Ortiz doesn’t have a win over a guy not named Ken Shamrock in almost 3 years.

    To have him ranked in any Top 10 makes no sense. I agree with the logic behind thinking highly of him, but he doesn’t belong in any rankings until he starts fighting top guys again.

    Additionally, his win over Griffin and his draw over Evans are a different cup of tea then today’s rankings. It’s like looking at the Rampage and Shogun of Pride and comparing them to today. You just can’t.

    When Ortiz fought both Evans & Griffin, they were different fighters who were hit by the big lights for the first time. I don’t see Ortiz, who hasn’t progressed his game much in years, being much of a test for Evans, Griffin, Rampage, or Machida.

  31. Alan Conceicao says:

    45 is making the more cogent argument here. Sure, Tito beat Forrest Griffin, but again, its almost 3 years ago now. Griffin went on to beat the two best light heavyweights in the world since. Tito has not beaten any of the top 200 best light heavyweights in the world in the same time frame. Its reminiscent of the logic used to portray Couture as a top ten heavyweight.

  32. klown says:

    45 and Alan,

    You’re right, and that’s why Evans and Griffin are #1 and #2 while Ortiz is at #10.

    If some of those up-and-coming LHWs are better than Ortiz, let’s match him up against them.

  33. Jeremy (not that Jeremy) says:

    Couture isn’t anywhere near a top 10 heavyweight. I have him pegged at 26 now. The process isn’t merely looking at who fought who when, it’s about estimating how good their opponent was at the time that they fought them, and this is necessarily retrospective from NOW versus retrospective from then, because a fighter’s previous ranking may be too low. You know that it was lower than the opponent that beat them, but you don’t know that it wasn’t higher than their contemporary ranking if they weren’t competing against better competition at that time.

    Evans, Griffin, and Machida have continued to have good results after fighting Ortiz, which means that at the time they fought Ortiz, their ranking can reasonably be said to have been higher than his (within a margin of error, since he lost to them). The question is how much higher than him they were, not whether people at the time, based on the fighters’ then contemporary results, believed that they were good or not.

    Please. If you only go by who beat who in some fabricated ranking that some drunken Sherdog editor pulled out of thin air, then you’ll never have anything like a fair or reasonable portrayal of how good fighters are or were, and the only way to know for sure is to have them fight one another.

  34. IceMuncher says:

    I read that about 3 times, and I’m still somewhat confused. That first paragraph is like drinking a glass of mud. Also, only Machida beat Ortiz.

    However, I agree wholeheartedly with the very last statement you made.

  35. Jeremy (not that Jeremy) says:

    Hopefully clearer:

    A reasonable synthetic (systematic based on results rather than polls) ranking system attempts to determine the skill of fighters during any given rating period, which necessarily involves both a “forward” and a “backward” component. Results from current ratings periods will inform the system’s retroactive rating of fighters in previous rating periods.

    So the ranking of Tito Ortiz 2007 as of the end of 2007 will be somewhat different than the ranking of Tito Oritz 2007 as of the end of 2008, even if Tito did not fight during 2008, as long as his previous opponents have changes in their ratings.

    As of December 31, 2007, Tito had only one fight in 2007, a draw against Evans. Evans at the time was undefeated, but not yet regarded as a serious contender. As of now, Evans is the UFC Light Heavyweight Champion, and under some synthetic and poll based ranking systems, the best Light Heavyweight fighter in the world. No matter what, that puts a different spin on Tito’s draw, particularly in non-synthetic systems since pollsters are naturally going to say that Tito gamed himself out of a win.

  36. Alan Conceicao says:

    You’re not making any sense. What you’re trying to do is come up with a cogent way of saying that we know things now that we did not know then, which is obvious. The problem is that you can’t retroactively assign people rankings in 2002 based on their performance in 2009 just as you cannot jump people through the rankings because they beat or lost to fighters in an early stage of development. That Tito drew with Rashad Evans is fine and dandy, but he A) didn’t win B) it was two years ago C) he hasn’t won a fight since. What he has done is lose, age, and admit to having terrible back problems that affect his performance. Evans did all the hard work: He’s the one that beat Liddell and Forrest Griffin. You can’t reward Tito for the successes of someone else. Otherwise, why not leave Jeremy Horn in the top 20 at 185 for losing to every good fighter he’s faced in the last 3 years?

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