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« | Home | »

Where the St. Pierre/Penn vaseline story is heading

By Zach Arnold | February 3, 2009

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Previous posts on the topic:

Generally, with a story or a potential ‘scandal’ like this, fight fans and followers will pay attention for a limited amount of time unless something new develops. If nothing new develops, then the attention span wanders very quickly onto something else.

So, where is this current story heading?

  1. Was vaseline improperly used by St. Pierre’s cornermen in multiple rounds? It’s clear that an incident did take place, but the discussion has been primarily focused on intervention from the Nevada State Athletic Commission between rounds two and three. However, as Ivan Trembow succinctly lays out this morning, there’s plenty of discussion about possible improper vaseline application between the first and second rounds. If Penn’s camp & attorneys or the NSAC can prove a certain timeline of events here to implicate either trainer Phil Nurse or trainer Greg Jackson, then both men could be in serious trouble.
  2. If Penn files a formal complaint with the NSAC, will the NSAC used both edited and unedited UFC footage from multiple camera shots for investigation examination? So far, we’ve gotten to the point of speculation from both fans and writers based on a) people live at the MGM Grand Garden Arena and b) those watching the PPV telecast at home. What we haven’t seen or had access to are all the camera angles and VTR (video) that the production truck recorded. If the NSAC asks to see this footage, will they find conclusive evidence on St. Pierre’s corner using vaseline improperly or will the footage not show improper usage based on how the directors instructed the cameramen to shoot at certain angles?
  3. If any improper activity occurred, what should the punishment be? It seems highly doubtful that the outcome of the Penn/St. Pierre fight will be changed from a St. Pierre win to a no-contest. Therefore, the focus will be on trainers Phil Nurse and Greg Jackson. Jackson is the big fish here. If the NSAC was to suspend him indefinitely or even permanently from cornering in Nevada, it would certainly change the way fighters from Jackson’s camp (Rashad Evans, Keith Jardine, etc.) are instructed at the fights. Furthermore, if the NSAC were to suspend Jackson, would that suspension be enforced at UFC’s foreign events?
  4. Will this damage St. Pierre’s relatively clean-cut reputation? Fight fans can be a very forgiving lot, so I sincerely doubt that the taint from this incident will, pardon the pun, rub off on the Canadian superstar. If anything, I suspect that St. Pierre’s most ardent supporters will rally around him in a defensive posture and attack anyone who tries to insinuate anything negative about St. Pierre’s credibility.
  5. Will a fight between St. Pierre and Anderson Silva still draw mega-PPV buyrate status, even if the commission determines that something improper took place at UFC 94 involving vaseline usage? Yes, it will.
  6. If improper vaseline usage by St. Pierre’s corner is confirmed by the NSAC, how will this effect the public’s perception of BJ Penn? I don’t think he suffered much damage image-wise coming out of the fight, as everyone seems relatively fine with accepting the fact that St. Pierre is the better fighter between the two. That said, UFC has certainly edged their fan base (through the UFC Prime Time TV specials on Spike TV) to look at Penn as more of a heel than a face, even though he wasn’t booed much at all in Las Vegas last week. I highly doubt that the public in general would look at Penn filing a complaint on this matter as a cowardly act. The online reaction towards this developing story has been hysterical, primarily amongst flamers who have really dumped all over Penn as a person who only knows how to make excuses. I seriously doubt the average UFC fan looks at BJ Penn the way some people on Sherdog or The Underground Forum do. This situation should not be damaging towards Penn at all. I doubt that it will significantly soften the blow from the St. Pierre loss, but Penn should not be drawing heat for pointing out potential improper vaseline usage by St. Pierre’s corner, either.

After I wrote this initial post, I happened to read this and I am just shaking my head:

The newest canard being bandied about is that St. Pierre’s corner rubbed Vaseline on his back and shoulders between rounds and that the Vaseline constitutes “cheating” on the part of St. Pierre’s team (notice that no one is saying it changed the outcome of the fight). The charge is true in that the corner clearly committed wrongdoing, but it’s not the least bit clear how much Vaseline was used nor how much it impacted the fight. Most importantly, a champion like Penn deserves better than to have his shortcomings constantly re-examined because fundamentalists cannot accept what must be a very bruising reality.

And guess what label was attached to someone who believes this story has legs? According to the writer, you’re a “BJ Penn apologist.” Ah, this brings back memories to me… like when I was accused of being a “Zuffa apologist” for covering and highlighting the mafia scandal that destroyed PRIDE or when I was accused for being a “Dana White apologist” when I ripped into Gary Shaw, Jared Shaw, and Jeremy Lappen during Elite XC’s stand-up scandal involving Kimbo Slice and Seth Petruzelli. Apologists everywhere these days, I suppose.

That last article I linked to is a crystal clear example of the absolute killer bee-type hysteria online right now for anyone who even dares bring up this topic. Sad and regrettable.

Topics: Media, MMA, UFC, Zach Arnold | 39 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |

39 Responses to “Where the St. Pierre/Penn vaseline story is heading”

  1. catch says:

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t Keith Kizer say that Dana and Lorenzo told him that the people cornering GSP wouldn’t be allowed to corner again in the UFC at the organizational level? I wonder if that statement applies to Greg Jackson or just Phil Nurse. Kizer also said that Jackson did some of the vaseline rubbing.

    Ah, the interview I was thinking of was from MMAJunkie, and the quote is

    “actually both Mr. White and Mr. Fertitta both commented on how they’re not sure whether those guys need to corner any other UFC (events) ever again.”

    Not quite as strongly worded as I remembered it.

  2. Robert Poole says:

    If the story doesn’t die down it’s because certain sites, namely this one, keep pushing it. I honestly think this is much ado over nothing. Yes his corner put too much vaseline on him. Nurse should be suspended for at least 6 months and fined his pay for that evening. As a first offense that seems reasonable.

    UFC will have to keep a closer eye on the corners from here out because they have a vested interest in things appearing on the up and up.

    BJ Penn could have fought a bone dry GSP and he would have gotten his ass handed to him. It’s time for his corner to stop whining and for him to be more of a man and accept that he got beaten by GSP in a one sided affair and if he doesn’t think it was legit he can defer to the previous loss he had at GSP’s hands.

    Frankly the story is not that serious. The Margarito story is much, much worse. He was putting plaster in his wraps to hit guys with concrete… that is far more dangerous and serious.

    And besides I don’t take these greasing allegations seriously when they are made by every guy who loses and doesn’t want to accept the loss. Sometimes jerks like Tito Ortiz will accuse guys of it even when he won to explain a lackluster performance.

    Either way it’s like the boy crying wolf at this point. I’m pretty certain there’s a little bit of grease that rubs off on everyone since everyone’s heads are greased anyway and these guys are wrestling each other. Unless GSP was caked with grease from head to toe, this is a losing story being pushed by the loser of a fight who is clearly embarrassed by his performance.

    Rp

  3. skwirrl says:

    ZUFFA APOLOGIST!!! I bet you melted bodies in Acid for Frank Fertitta the first

  4. Rollo the Cat says:

    Jackson’s fighters seem to get accused of greasing quite often. I suspect there is more to this than even Zach is talking about.

  5. catch says:

    It’s true that as far as I can tell, there is no major camp that seems to have as many greasing accusations made about their fighters as Team Jackson, and no major fighter as much as GSP. Out of GSP’s last 11 fights, only four of those opponents haven’t accused him of it(that we know of).

  6. Zack says:

    Did you guys see Mayhem’s post on the UG?

    It was in response to this statement by Grapulla: “HMMM all of which were obliterated by GSP.
    Sore losers always make excuses.”

    Mayhem says: ” Naw man, I probably would’ve had my ass beat anyways, but its true, unless he sweats crisco.”

    Link: http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/mma.cfm?go=forum_framed.frame&page=1

  7. David says:

    This should not even be a news story.. this is NOTHING!

  8. catch says:

    If Dana and Lorenzo say that “they’re not sure whether those guys need to corner any other UFC (events) ever again.” it’s clearly worthy of being a news story for that alone, and not “nothing”. Greg Jackson is the trainer of TWO UFC CHAMPIONS, clearly this has major implications in a practical sense.

  9. Fan Futbol says:

    The regulation at issue prohibits “excessive” grease, not “any” or “incidental” grease.

    I still have not seen any explanation from anyone as to how Phil Nurse’s using the same hands that applied a seemingly small amount of vaseline to GSP’s face (after round 1) then resulted in an “excessive” amount being placed on GSP’s back. The video evidence I have seen looks nothing like “excessive.”

    Should the rule be changed such that vaseline may only be applied to the face and that any cornerman that applies vaseline cannot touch the fighter’s body? Perhaps. But that is not the current rule.

    FF

  10. spacedog says:

    Fan Futbol has it right. Zack, you and Ivan want SO BADLY to make this into an issue but there just does not seem to have been either excessive grease OR intent to grease GSP up.
    Nurse was doing his thing and got some vaseline on GSP’s back, the rules need to be changed but thats all.
    Also where is the source saying Jackson or NUrse is likely to be banned? I heard a quaote from Dana, made in the heat of the moment by a guy who is not known for his steady head,bt thats it.
    The quotes that I have read from the NSAC all seem to suggest that they think it was unintentional.

  11. Chuck says:

    It amazes me how no one has mentioned the affect that sweat has in making people slippery. Should competitors be dusted in baby powder as well? (this is in reference to the GIF’s of St.Pierre “slipping out of Penn’s high guard).

    I think the part that is most frustrating is that GSP is having his victory tainted over this. I sincerely believe he did not pre-plan or realize what was happening to him during the rounds. The guy has one minute to recover, his heartbeat’s probably at 190, he’s thinking strategy, he’s got trainers yapping at him, and screaming crowds. I have no doubt that he’d be oblivious to what’s going on with the vaseline application. This doesn’t meant that Nurse or Jackson shouldn’t be punished but I wish that a distinction would be made between GSP and the actions of his corner.

  12. catch says:

    To answer how grease to the body could be considered “excessive”, excessive can simply mean more than what’s needed or not usual according to the dictionary, and application of grease to the body is not needed or usual. The purpose of Vaseline is to protect a fighter’s face.

  13. Fan Futbol says:

    So catch, you read “excessive” as “any grease to the body.” I respectfully disagree.

    FF

  14. catch says:

    I don’t think that’s the obvious way to read it either to be honest, but basically I’m worried that if they don’t punish it just because they CAN’T under their rules, it will set a precedent that greasing you body is completely acceptable under their rules.

    I think the rules should absolutely be changed to specifically mention that applying vaseline to the body is not allowed, but in the meantime the current rule could possibly be interpreted that way.

  15. 45 Huddle says:

    This situation will play itself out.

    With that said, a few things need to happen in the future.

    1. Get rid of vaseline during fights.

    2. Any water poured onto a fighter between rounds should be wiped off. To me, seeing GSP pour water over his own head between each round is just as bad if not worse. Many fighters have it done. It’s fine for boxing. Not for a sport that involved grappling.

    3. Have good commission reps in each corner for each fight. The guys they have there look like they have a combined IQ of 32.

  16. Ultimo Santa says:

    Zach is simply reporting the facts (don’t shoot the messenger, guys) but I do hope this goes away.

    This garbage will open the door to a LOT of whining from people GSP has destroyed.

    “You now, NOW that I remember it, he WAS all greasy when he kicked my ass back in 2005! I just never thought to bring it up.”

    And I’m sure a LOT of fighters (ie. anyone who has lost to someone from Greg Jackson’s camp) would love it if Yoda not allowed in the corner for future fights.

    This whole ordeal is starting to move from sour grapes to full-on witch hunt.

  17. Rollo the Cat says:

    “This whole ordeal is starting to move from sour grapes to full-on witch hunt.”

    Jackson brought up the witch doctor thing, not anyone here.

    It will go away. It will go away when Nurse goes away.

  18. Dan says:

    I believe this is a very news-worthy story. If GSP has been greasing then this story should not go away. Doesn’t matter if the grease would affected the outcome of this fight (or previous fights), cheating is still cheating.

  19. John Castignollo says:

    They should have applied the vaseline to BJ’s asshole, since GSP was raping him most of the fight.

  20. Ultimo Santa says:

    re: Dan (post 18)

    See, THIS is the kind of crap that is turning this ‘story’ into a massive witch hunt:

    You get a trainer, rubbing what may or may not have been trace amounts of Vaseline onto GSP’s back in between rounds.

    OK – bad move, mistake, brain-fart, call it what you will.

    But you take a mistake, and quickly label it as ‘cheating’, placing the blame squarely on GSP’s shoulders.

    Then the next logical step is “Wait a minute…if we’re using the word ‘cheating’, then LOGICALLY you have to look at every single GSP fight in the past, and assume he was cheating EVERY TIME – on purpose!”

    Be VERY careful when labeling GSP, or this incident.

    We don’t know:

    – how much, if any, Vaseline got on GSP’s back

    – if the amount of Vaseline, if any, was enough to measurably affect the outcome of the fight

    – if this was anything more than an honest mistake (which is seems very likely it was)

    And furthermore, we can NEVER go back in time and check for the amount of Vaseline on GSP’s body in any of his previous fights.

    But this Vaseline story will become the new “Are you still beating your wife?” statement.

    Hey GSP, are you still illegally greasing?

  21. Ultimo Santa says:

    John Castignollo, that made me LOL here at my office desk.

    Three, and only three, things need to happen here:

    01. NSAC needs to have someone who is not mentally challenged in each corner, supervising what happens. It’s THEIR responsibility. No complaints, no bitching, no whining by the loser when he gets beaten by the better man.

    02. Book a rematch, and watch GSP go 3-0 against chubby little Penn.

    03. Let all the conspiracy theorists, whiners and douche nozzles head over to Sherdog, where they can socialize with a group of their peers.

  22. Joseph says:

    Matt Hughes,

    “I was also surprised by the final match, I thought BJ would have put on a better performance. BJ Penn is coming from a lighter weight class, but he took the fight at 170. That’s the bottom line. I knew it was going to come down to who had the better cardio and even at the end of the first round BJ looked tired. Now, on to what everybody is talking about, the greasing. I’m not the only one who has said that GSP felt greasy during a fight. I know Matt Serra has mentioned it and, even in their first fight, I think BJ said something. I’m not saying GSP did something wrong and I’m not saying that it would have changed any outcomes of any fights; but what I am saying is, for my last two fights against Georges, he felt greasy.”

  23. Ivan Trembow says:

    Previous GSP opponents can make all the accusations they want, and people can dismiss them out of hand all they want. None of that changes the fact that based on all the facts, quotes, and video evidence (look at those five animated GIFs from Round 2), it does look like vaseline COULD have aided St. Pierre in Round 2. I don’t think the outcome of the fight would have been any different, but as for whether it COULD have aided St. Pierre in Round 2, the video evidence is pretty overwhelming that it could have.

    Although the outcome of the fight would have likely been the same even if St. Pierre did have an advantage in Round 2, that does not make this a non-story. It has been amazing to see some people saying, “It didn’t affect the outcome of the fight, so it’s a non-issue that we should all stop talking about!” That is such backwards logic.

    They are two different situations, but the stand-up agreement in the fight between Seth Petruzelli and Kimbo Slice didn’t affect the outcome of that fight because Petruzelli won by knockout anyway in 14 seconds. Were people saying after that fight, “It didn’t affect the outcome of the fight, so it’s a non-issue that we should all stop talking about”?

    Of course not, and if they were, that would have been an equally ridiculous argument.

  24. Ivan Trembow says:

    And before anyone says, “HOW DARE YOU SUGGEST THAT IT COULD HAVE POTENTIALLY GIVEN GSP AN ADVANTAGE IN ROUND 2!” which seems to be the kind of response that is commonplace, open your eyes and look at the GIFs.

    http://free-zg.t-com.hr/bhz/mma/penn_vs_gsp/slip1.gif
    http://free-zg.t-com.hr/bhz/mma/penn_vs_gsp/slip2.gif
    http://free-zg.t-com.hr/bhz/mma/penn_vs_gsp/slip3.gif
    http://free-zg.t-com.hr/bhz/mma/penn_vs_gsp/slip4.gif
    http://free-zg.t-com.hr/bhz/mma/penn_vs_gsp/slip5.gif

    Again, according to the statements by no less of a neutral authority than NSAC head Keith Kizer:

    -Round 2 was after St. Pierre’s cornerman rubbed his back immediately after applying vaseline to his face

    -Round 2 was also before the athletic commission intervened to towel off St. Pierre’s back, which did not happen until after Round 2 and before Round 3.

  25. Big Bill Bob says:

    I can’t remember the exact expression but it goes something like “It takes six people to make a conspiracy”

    Perhaps its sour grapes, or perhaps this dude really is greasin up. If you knew anything about the Canadian government when the French were in power they are quite sophisticated liars, cheaters and stealers, its inherent to their nature beign separatists and all. Only requires one more fighter to come forward and the conspiracy will be complete, and GSP shall forever been tainted in the opinions of those who matter. Greasy Bugger.

  26. Fan Futbol says:

    Ivan,

    All sorts of things COULD be the case. GSP’s errant nut shot to Hughes in their second fight COULD have undermined Hughes effectiveness and resulted in Hughes’ losing. Alternatively, Hughes could have lost b/c GSP was the superior striker. Which do you think occurred?

    The indeterminate amount of vaseline applied to GSP’s back after round one COULD have affected Penn’s rubber guard. Alternatively, GSP’s strength, leverage, and sweaty body could have made Penn’s rubber guard ineffective. Which do you think occurred? Given GSP’s years of dominating groundwork, I personally think the former is overwhelmingly likely.

    So, while I see what you’re saying about what COULD have happened…but what do you actually think did happend? I mean this seriously — not as a prelude to a childish flame war.

    FF

  27. Fan Futbol says:

    Sorry, I meant “the latter is overwhelmingly likely.”

    FF

  28. Luke Thomas says:

    Zach, seriously, what are you doing?

    First, have the decency to call me out by name. I’m a big boy and don’t mind it. What I do mind, however, is how grossly you distort my opinion by a) inserting what you think I believe and b) making this entire issue about you.

    Ask Kid Nate: BJ Penn is far and away my favorite fighter, speaking as a fan. I’ve talked about it extensively on WJFK recently and picked him to win. His loss is hard for me to accept, to be quite honest. But I have no choice. And to be even more honest, I’ve been a Penn apologist myself for years, but despite the errancy of GSP’s corner I cannot cling to many of the positions I once held. And in reading my email inbox tray, reading comments on various sites and talking to others its clear there is still a devoted legion of Penn fans who cannot accept reality. They do exist, they are vocal and I was addressing them. Notice, btw, I don’t call out Penn fans. I am a Penn fan and likely always will be, but addressing his shortcomings at this point is an absolute must, irrespective of whatever happened in GSP’s corner.

    And of course what happened in GSP’s corner is a relevant issue, but that’s a separate matter than looking at Penn’s record and realizing his foibles are real. One can realize Penn has been unable to address issues of performance and growth (even if his cardio is better) while simultaneously thinking Nurse acted outrageously and borderline unethically.

    Lastly, quit co-opting an unrelated issue to make a point about your righteousness. The issue is that while the size of the group is an open question, iconic figures like Penn attract zealots who are unable to see him as human. They do exist, they are vocal and I was talking about them. Everything else is you reading into something that doesn’t exist. Cool? Cool.

  29. Jon McCaffrey says:

    Luke Thomas, take your pretentious demeanor back to your site. Nobody cares to read your intellectual flotsam/jetsam here. Aside from your companion Jordan Breen I’m not sure anybody is listening to your radio, or perhaps a marginally larger audience then WipeAss radio sustained.

    Don’t quit your day job Luke, because each passing day you grow more irrelevant within the MMA community.

  30. Ivan Trembow says:

    Luke— I interpreted what you wrote about Penn fans pretty much the same way that Zach did. I thought you were painting with a broad brush and labeling people as “Penn apologists” if they have written about the vaseline incidents in St. Pierre’s corner, almost as if it was only a big story because of Penn apologists. What caused me to think that was when you wrote:

    “The newest canard being bandied about is that St. Pierre’s corner rubbed Vaseline on his back and shoulders between rounds and that the Vaseline constitutes ‘cheating’ on the part of St. Pierre’s team (notice that no one is saying it changed the outcome of the fight).”

    It’s not a canard. It’s a legitimate news story, and you acknowledged that in the very next line:

    “The charge is true in that the corner clearly committed wrongdoing, but it’s not the least bit clear how much Vaseline was used nor how much it impacted the fight.”

    As a whole, that paragraph sent mixed messages and it was not made entirely clear what you were saying.

    Fan Futbol— In response to this: “So, while I see what you’re saying about what COULD have happened…but what do you actually think did happend?”

    I don’t know for sure which of the scenarios that you described is the way it was, and that’s the whole point in a way. None of us know for sure whether it gave St. Pierre an unfair advantage in Round 2.

    Based on the irrefutable facts of the case (cornerman’s hand rubbing St. Pierre’s back immediately after rubbing his face before Round 2, athletic commission not cleaning off St. Pierre’s back until after Round 2, etc.), all we do know for sure is that it COULD have given St. Pierre an unfair advantage in that round.

    It takes willful disregard of the facts to believe that St. Pierre there is zero chance that St. Pierre COULD have had any kind of unfair advantage in Round 2.

    However, the bigger point of my previous post was that when regulations are broken or something improper happens, it doesn’t need to have affected the outcome of a fight for it to be a serious matter.

    Again, they are two different scenarios, but the stand-up agreement in the Petruzelli/Slice fight had absolutely zero impact on the outcome of the fight. But I was all over the story, and so were most people, and the fact that the stand-up agreement had zero impact on the outcome of the fight wasn’t going to change that, because something improper still occurred.

    If someone had said, “It didn’t affect the outcome of the fight, so it’s a non-issue that we should all stop talking about!” they would have been laughed off the forums. If someone had suggested that the people writing about this or pressing for further investigation should stop what they’re doing because they’re hurting the sport, that would have been even more ridiculous.

    And yet both of these things have happened on multiple sites with the St. Pierre vaseline incidents.

    Somehow, the false argument has been created that if one can successfully argue that the vaseline definitely had no impact on the fight, then that makes it a non-story.

    Well, that wouldn’t make it a non-story. Something improper still happened, and it’s still a big deal.

  31. Dave says:

    Ladies and gentlemen, Luke Thomas getting shook, again.

    If Luke had said, “Look, Zach, you are clinging for dear life on a non-issue. Nobody cares, the commission doesn’t care anymore, it is over.” Instead, it was yet another Luke Thomas to the rescue to defend his good name when nobody really cares.

    I’ll address Luke clearly out in the open; you seem like a decent dude and your love for MMA is a great thing, but really? You need to lighten up when it comes to this stuff. People are going to attack you, people are going to misread you, people are going to discredit you. Finding each and every one and trying to create a public scene makes you come off like a nutjob.

  32. Brandt says:

    Another thing that I haven’t seen mentioned often enough (maybe it’s out there, I just haven’t seen it personally) is that the current rules only state than ‘an excessive amount’ of Vaseline is not permitted on the face or body of a fighter. There is only a subjective definition in the rule book, thus making this all more confusing than it has to be.

    Perhaps the state athletic commission rules should be laid out more clearly. Maybe we should only allow a cornerman to touch the face of his fighter if he/she is using Vaseline. Or let’s just not use Vaseline at all once a fight begins.

  33. Ivan Trembow says:

    The way the athletic commission has always attempted to enforce it is that putting vaseline on a fighter’s face is okay as long as it’s not “excessive” (which is, of course, a very subjective word), but putting vaseline anywhere other than the face is not okay in any quantity.

  34. Josh says:

    I can’t stand these people that know don’t now anything about mma saying that vaseline did not affect the outcome of this fight. It does not matter that St. Pierre was beating Penn, you could constantly see throughout the fight Penn’s legs slipping off St. Pierre’s back and neck when he was going for a triangle choke. It takes two seconds for a fight to end and Penn could have landed a submission to end it. Vaseline does not rub off, you have to take a shower to get it completely off. This would have a different fight if St. Pierre’s corner did not cheat. Penn has build his reputation on submissions and jiu jitsu and those where both affected by the grease from the vaseline plain and simple.

  35. Fred says:

    Zach, you mention some excellent points. The only one I would disagree with you about is #6. Penn’s reputation amongst the fans is taking a huge beating over this. The perception is that Penn is whining about a result that most people think was inevitable—Vaseline or no. Amongst fighters, Penn’s rep. is probably still intact, because at least several fighters have corroborated Penn’s claims about GSP feeling “greasy”.

    However, amongst the fan base, this is definitely hurting Penn. People don’t like fighters who make excuses; and while Penn may have a legitimate concern about the practices in GSP’s corner, the complaint just doesn’t provide any sort of redemption in the face of BJ’s crushing loss.

  36. Jeremy (not that Jeremy) says:

    Oh thanks Chuck, now I have this image stuck in my head of Rampage and Evans walking into the cage looking like ghosts because they’re covered in rosin.

  37. Jeremy (not that Jeremy) says:

    I’d like to have a little better information on what “greasy” entails. For all I know, GSP bathes in skin-so-soft every day for a week before the fight. That would probably affect the outcome of the fight, and wouldn’t necessitate any kind of cornerman conspiracy.

    Maybe we need better science on greasy fighters, and random grease testing by the NSAC during training periods as well as before and after fights, particularly belt matches.

  38. Just Me says:

    I’m not a Penn fan, but the application of vaseline to the body either accidental or intentional is definately not cool.

    That stuff does not wipe off, and St. Pierre fought round two without even being toweled off. This is the round where the grease could have given the most unfair advantage.

    Maybe it is just me, but the vaseling could have had an effect Penn’s confidence. To me Penn seemed to look defeated after his high guard was pretty much rendered ineffective.

    I’ve wrestled someone who that had baby oil applied to their body prior to a wrestling match. I was just too busy to say anything about it. I still won, but it reduced my effectiveness considerably.

    Knowing this, I found this story disheartening even more so that recent steroid scandals. I just want to see a good fight.

    I had also read of the posibility of the fight being ruled a no contest. I would be fine with that, so long as there was a rematch. However, I’m sure there was a lot of money changing hands through betting, so I’m not sure how that would play out.

    Overall a investigation should commence, any pentalties should be applied, all involved should get a chance at redemption, and this too will pass. A permanent ban from cornering is a little stiff.

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