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Vaseline should pay BJ Penn and sponsor him
By Zach Arnold | February 2, 2009
Update: From the comments section — take a look at this animated GIF.
I’ve taken heat for even *considering* the argument that BJ Penn’s camp has presented in regards to allegations of illegal vaseline usage by George St. Pierre’s corner.
So, naturally, I’m here to provide you with many links to thoughts from various MMA writers on the subject.
Michael David Smith has rational thoughts on the matter and thinks that the trainer, Phil Nurse, should face punishment. He also thinks that the vaseline issue did not effect the outcome of the UFC 94 fight. On both accounts, I agree 100%. However, if you adopt this rational opinion, be prepared for an absolute e-mail and web site onslaught for even considering this point of view.
Sam Caplan thinks the incident is a serious situation to pay attention to.
Head on over to MMA Weekly to catch up on the latest story details. Sherdog has comments from Keith Kizer of the Nevada State Athletic Commission on the matter. As I stated before on this site, I figured that nothing in the end would happen from Kizer. MMA Convert has more updates on Penn’s camp filing a complaint.
Fightlinker mentions past incidents featuring greasing in MMA. To add fuel to the fire, he points out comments Jason “Mayhem” Miller made about a previous opponent he fought that he accused of greasing up.
The big loser in this situation? Ryoto Machida.
Gryphon, a famous Japanese MMA writer, points out the obvious comparison to Akiyama vs. Sakuraba from a couple of years ago (as I noted when this story first broke).
Topics: Media, MMA, UFC, Zach Arnold | 19 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |
I can’t understand the resistance this story has been getting from MMA fans. I mean GSP is one tap getting a Vaseline rubdown. I know that the quantity was not that much and that GSP can claim plausible deniabiility on the issue but to cover your ears and go “la la la la” is kind of absurd.
It is confirmed again by Keith Kizer, not just in the Cofield story but also in MMAWeekly and Sherdog stories, that there were two incidents.
The first one you can see clear as day if you look at the tape between Rounds 1 and 2.
The second time that the cornerman rubbed vaseline on GSP’s back, it was between Rounds 2 and 3, and and this one was not shown during the PPV but Kizer said that this one he witnessed himself with his own eyes.
Here’s more on this “non-story that Zach and I made up” from MMAWeekly, with quotes from the NSAC’s Keith Kizer:
And from the Sherdog article:
The resistance is to people like Ivan who are presenting the incident as though Nurse covered his hands with vaseline and them rubbed his back down with it.
People are also acting as if Nurse was not in fact doing something else with his hands on GSP’s body, namely centering him and doing some message, and so treat the fact that Nurse had his hands on GSP at all as concrete proof of wrong doing.
Saying GSP ” got a vaseline rub down” is both factually inaccurate and misleading.
It suggests intent, something you have no proof of, and something that even the NSAC does not seem to believe.
Zach, why do you spell Lyoto “Ryoto”?
That guy is scary. That was a stunning performance – taking no damage while inflicting maximum punishment. Machida represents the future of the sport as much as GSP does. I have a hard time imagining anyone defeating him at 205 right now.
Having said that, it must be admitted that Machida has never beaten a top-ranked competitor. The biggest names he has faced are Ortiz, Sokoudjou and T.Silva, who are, at best, on the outskirts of the Top 10.
He needs one more fight before a title shot, but not any old fight! He must fight a higher ranked opponent: one of Evans, Griffin, Jackson, Liddell, W.Silva, Jardine and Rua. Only after beating one of these names is Machida truly the #1 contender.
I hope he is given this opportunity. I see him cutting through anyone except possibly Rampage. And Rashad must be added to this list as well, (of potential defeaters of Machida) if simply due to his unbeaten record…
I dont see why Ryoto should have to wait for Lampage’s fight to see if he can fight Lashad.
Ed. — Well played. Well played…
Does anyone know why Miller is dancing around the edge?
He clearly is at least insinuating that it was GSP that he is talking about, yet won’t actually say it.
If he means GSP, he needs to man up and say it.
I don’t have a problem with people expressing concern over this, but some are talking as though GSP was covered in it. On the Underground, folks are watching clips and saying he is clearly coated with vaseline.
There certainly is a degree of the online folks that are pushing this to a degree of hysteria.
Of klown’s list, Jardine and Jackson and Rua and Liddell are supposed to be fighting each other while Wanderlei is supposed to be going down to Middleweight. So that leaves Griffin as the possible opponent (since if he beat Evans he’d be the champion and not #1 contender).
Kizer is turning into a joke himself, between the Nick Diaz/Nate Marquardt situation and now his comments regarding this fight. The CSAC already has problems being taken seriously after the Sherk debacle the least thing we need is for the home of the UFC to be run by someone who’s got his head up his backside.
oh man… look at this (from ug)
http://free-zg.t-com.hr/bhz/mma/penn_vs_gsp/greaser.gif
^^^
bwahha
in the gif you can see the corner man wipe the side of the Vaseline container on GSP’s back. GSP sits down and he can rub the Vaseline in.
If he gets caught he can say that he didnt know that there was Vaseline smudged on the outside of the can.
There is another pic out there taken mid round where GSP has Vaseline hanging off of his eyebrows like ice cycles.
Yep, clearly the cheating had no effect on the fight *rolls eyes*
http://free-zg.t-com.hr/bhz/mma/penn_vs_gsp/slip6.gif
http://free-zg.t-com.hr/bhz/mma/penn_vs_gsp/slip5.gif
http://free-zg.t-com.hr/bhz/mma/penn_vs_gsp/slip4.gif
http://free-zg.t-com.hr/bhz/mma/penn_vs_gsp/slip3.gif
http://free-zg.t-com.hr/bhz/mma/penn_vs_gsp/slip2.gif
http://free-zg.t-com.hr/bhz/mma/penn_vs_gsp/slip1.gif
Spacedog— Disagree with me all you want, but please don’t misrepresent what I have and have not said.
At no point have I said or presented the incident as though “Nurse covered his hands with vaseline and then rubbed his back down with it.” At no point have I said that St. Pierre “got a vaseline rub down.” I said repeatedly that the athletic commission gave him a rub down with a towel in order to wipe off his back.
The facts are that Nurse did rub St. Pierre’s back in between Round 1 and Round 2, and there is indisputable video evidence of that. Whether he still had vaseline on his hands at that time cannot be determined from the video, although it can be seen clear as day that he was rubbing GSP’s face with the same hand just seconds earlier.
According to the athletic commission, it was only between the second and third rounds that they cleaned off St. Pierre’s back, meaning that IF he did have vaseline put on his back before Round 2 (and that’s a big “if”), whether it was intentional or unintentional, that vaseline would have still been on his back during Round 2.
After that, Nurse did, in fact, rub St. Pierre’s back in between Round 2 and 3, and the NSAC has said that it was done with vaseline on his hands (“After the second round, we observed Mr. Jackson putting Vaseline on Mr. St. Pierre’s face and then putting his hand on his back”). While this was not shown on the PPV broadcast, NSAC head Keith Kizer said that he saw it with his own eyes, as did multiple inspectors. That’s when they rubbed down St. Pierre’s back with towels. They also rubbed his back down with towels after Round 3.
It is ridiculous how much we’re seeing the “bury your head in the sand” mentality (even from some journalists) of just wanting this to go away regardless of whether or not any wrongdoing was done. As Zach wrote in the other thread:
“Now, you can certainly argue the issue of ‘intent’ in regards to St. Pierre as to whether or not he understood the nature of the vaseline usage, but to deny that the usage of vaseline in that manner COULDN’T provide an unfair competitive advantage is complete intellectual dishonesty.” (capitalization added by me)
—
Further confirmation from the NSAC’s Keith Kizer that even though St. Pierre’s cornerman did rub his back after Round 1, the athletic commission did not wipe his back with towels until after Round 2 (Kizer quotes from MMA Junkie):
Kizer watched intently to see if the questionable actions would be repeated as the second round came to a close.
Wow. All of those GIFs except for #6 are from Round 2.
Round 2 was after GSP’s cornerman rubbed his back with the same hand that had just been applying vaseline to his face seconds earlier, and Round 2 was also before the NSAC intervened to towel off GSP’s back (that happened after Round 2).
Based on all of that information and those five GIFs, it does look like it COULD have aided GSP in Round 2.
[…] Vaseline should pay BJ Penn and sponsor him […]
Check out this GIF:
http://free-zg.t-com.hr/bhz/mma/penn_vs_gsp/slip6.gif
Or this one:
http://free-zg.t-com.hr/bhz/mma/penn_vs_gsp/slip1.gif
I am also against the fact that only a huge amount would make a difference. Only a small amount of vaseline needs to be aplied, with the mix of sweat and water to create a pretty damn slipper surface.
Matt Hughes:
“I was also surprised by the final match, I thought BJ would have put on a better performance. BJ Penn is coming from a lighter weight class, but he took the fight at 170. That’s the bottom line. I knew it was going to come down to who had the better cardio and even at the end of the first round BJ looked tired. Now, on to what everybody is talking about, the greasing. I’m not the only one who has said that GSP felt greasy during a fight. I know Matt Serra has mentioned it and, even in their first fight, I think BJ said something. I’m not saying GSP did something wrong and I’m not saying that it would have changed any outcomes of any fights; but what I am saying is, for my last two fights against Georges, he felt greasy.”
[…] Vaseline should pay BJ Penn and sponsor him […]