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UFC 87 (8/9 Minneapolis)
By Zach Arnold | August 9, 2008
Event reports: Sherdog | NBC Sports | MMA Junkie | Bloody Elbow | MMA Frenzy | MMA on Tap | Yahoo Sports
Topics: Media, MMA, UFC, Zach Arnold | 50 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |
Maia is impressive with his submissions. And his striking looked improved. Still have some growing to do before he is near the top.
After 2 rounds of Florian/Huerta, Huerta has been EXPOSED. I have been chearing for him, but his style can’t get it done against more technical fighters.
The event has been excellent so far.
Lesnar is an absolute powerhouse, but I’m still not sold.
Lesnar is like an Ortiz or Couture. He can have an extremely boring fight, and the crowd will be behind him the entire time. Every knee he threw got a huge pop.
For being green, he is promising. I understand why he didn’t put in the hooks. If he did, it would give Herring a chance to get on top, and he doesn’t want to do that.
We shall see with his next fight if he shows improvement. That will be the biggest sign.
I’m a big fan of Fitch, but I don’t think he really ever had much of a chance. At least he displayed some amazing willpower and heart.
Kudos to GSP for defending his title.
It came down to speed. Fitch just couldn’t throw a strike fast enough to compete with GSP. Still a performance worth being proud of. It was interesting to see GSP have to go 5 full rounds. He handled it very well.
Overall, a decent event. Nothing great, nothing bad.
When GSP was talking post fight and the camera panned over to BJ I flipped. He came from out of no-where!
Much better than UFC 86. I just hated that gay shit Brock did in the end. Fucking disrespectful and should be kept in the WWE. And I was impressed on how much he improved, but those acts of faggotry ruined it for me.
Worse than Baroni.
did brock inset his tool into somebody’s anus? i was unaware of any “faggotry: or “gayness” in the fight, but i’ll rewatch and try to ascertain what happened….
Lesner was dominant, but I’m still not buying what he’s selling. Other than the knockdown, he merely did a bit more efficient of a job than what Jake O’Briam before him had done to Herring.
Sure, it was an impressive result for a guy in just his third real fight, but it was dull & predictable.
I can see “The Next Big Thing” beating a lot of other heavyweights with his size & strength. But, I don’t see him finishing very many of them nor being exciting while doing it.
“After 2 rounds of Florian/Huerta, Huerta has been EXPOSED. I have been chearing for him, but his style can’t get it done against more technical fighters.”
Glad you we chering.
Florian did a good job pulling a Machida: back-pedaling for 15 minutes while picking his spots, and in the process putting millions of fans to sleep.
He clearly out-pointed the less technical Huerta, but his black belt in BJJ was rendered useless by Huerta’s defense. I would hardly call that ‘exposing’ someone.
Either way, it seems like K-Flo is trying to claim the title of Most Boring Fighter in the UFC from his new role model Machida. He’ll have to do better to take the all-time crown away from Tim Sylvia though.
Lesnar has a bright future. His stand up looked solid, and he’s incredibly fast for his size. With a couple submissions in his arsenal Lesnar will be scary.
Herring’s UFC career is more or less over.
Fitch is an absolute animal, and he’s made of solid steel. I can’t believe how many times he recovered from being rocked. But GSP is simply on a different level.
Kongo thinks he deserves the title? he lost his last fight to Herring, and only beat CroCop by decision after kneeing him in the balls a half dozen times.
Florian has ONE fight where he isn’t overly exciting, and now he is the “Most Boring Fighter”? Are you serious?
As for Kongo, he doesn’t deserve a title shot. I doubt his camp will want to accept a fight with Brock Lesnar, but that is the next logical fight at this time.
Lesnar really impressed me. He’s for real. Those standing knees looked brutal. There were a couple times it looked like Herring would have collapsed from them if Brock wasn’t holding him up.
I think he’s getting Kongo next (who should be easier than Herring), then a number #1 contender fight with a top fighter. There’s not too many HWs to choose from though.
I’ve never seen anyone that strong move that quick and have that much cardio. He has the potential to be a champion. No fighter has a physical advantage over the rest of the division like Lesnar. It’s like GSP fighting in LW, physically speaking of course.
Lesner could be the champ of the most insignificant division in mma history
hmmmm
Decent show, felt oddly disjointed for whatever reason to me. This is exactly the kind of card an outlet like HBO or CBS would be good for because, regardless of what people said going in about Fitch and him being great or whatever, he’s really no one that excites the hardcore or casual fanbase and against someone like GSP he’s inferior in virtually all aspects of the game. Its not his fault. Its just that GSP is that good.
The entire card, otherwise, sorta just killed time. Huerta/Florian wasn’t bad, and Florian comes away looking great by dominating Huerta. One thing that’s rarely discussed is how big Florian is. He had been competing at 185 on TUF and looked a full weight class above Huerta. Hey, junior and super welter were the first divisions added to boxing, and it sorta establishes why they aren’t necessarily the worst of ideas in MMA.
Lesnar isn’t a finisher but he had the cardio for the 15 minutes and easily controlled Herring. Herring did himself no favors rushing into the clinch over and over rather than trying to force Lesnar to come forward with strikes, but I don’t want to take away anything from Lesnar. As for comparisons of him and Tito, yeah, you know what? Let’s wait until Lesnar proves himself to be the best heavyweight in the world and holds the title for awhile first. Then we can talk.
Everything else was nonessential. Maia looked okay in a solid fight with McDonald, but its not like he’s gonna win a title.
Huerta/Florian was a good fight. Already the boring excuses are flying because a favorite fighter lost. KenFlo controlled Huerta for all three rounds, hit him at will, and was dominant on both stand ups and on the ground. Suck it up.
Lesnar has a lot of to improve. If he were more technical on the ground, he could’ve finished Herring on any of the rounds. He didn’t know to interlock his legs when he had full mount three times, allowing Herring to turn over.
Yves Lavignes proved once again that he’s the best referee in MMA. Keep him in the main event.
Lesner could be the champ of the most insignificant division in mma history
Are you sure? If the UFC puts him against Gabriel Gonzaga, Fabricio Werdum, Antonio Nogueira, Cain Velasquez and Shane Carwin. Those fighters alone are alot better the Sengoku or Dream or even EliteXC.
Wow, I don’t know who to disagree with first here.
I thought that Huerta looked significantly bigger than Florian (maybe you’re measuring guys by the length of their shorts), and the second round of that fight was completely dominated by Florian, and he clearly won the third as well. The first round wasn’t so hot, but it was a first round.
Lesnar is huge, I can’t believe that Horse was able to keep in it for three rounds.
The same goes for Fitch, I’m not sure what is up with GSP, but apparently just tapping someone out or beating them until they can’t stand up isn’t enough for this guy, because he’s just not finishing fights. It wasn’t for lack of domination at all, there is no way that Fitch should have been able to continue a good three or four times, and GSP just refused to finish the guy.
Very good event.
Saying that Florian was boring doesn’t mean anything except that: I was bored.
And apparently I wasn’t the only one.
Unless you were watching the fight with no audio, you noticed the fans booing relentlessly after KFlo backpedaled over and over again.
Huerta wasn’t only outgunned technically – he was outsmarted. After KFlo kept backing away time after time, Huerta should have stopped rushing in. He should have done what Quentin did vs. Liddell: stop, stand his ground, spread his arms apart and said “Are we here to fucking fight nor not?”
Then bait Florian into a more aggressive fight and not let him counter-strike.
Would Huerta have won doing that? Possibly not. But it would have been much closer, and 10x more watchable.
“cyph Says:
Yves Lavignes proved once again that he’s the best referee in MMA. Keep him in the main event.”
AGREE 100%. I’m sick of Herb Dean and especially Steve Mazagtti (how this man is still employed, I’ll never know). I miss Big John A LOT, but Yves is doing and absolutely excellent job overall.
Florian impressed me. I thought he was gong to have a tougher time with Huerta, especially since Florian didnt look that great against Lauzon. Florian backpeddled a lot but was still able to effectively engage. Had Huerta’s back a couple of times. Pretty one sided.
Lesnar looked pretty amazing. The firt punch completly caught Herring off guard. V gonzaga would be a good next fight. A little too soon to do a Werdum V Lesnar contender match, but heck this is UFC bizzaro matchmaking so it will probably happen that way
how rock solid was GSP? so much for that brittle psych of his. 5 rounds against Fitch, who would just not quit.
The most logical path for Lesnar is Kongo then Gonzaga. I see a lot of people on other message boards really putting down Lesnar’s performance. i think people forget it is only his 3rd MMA fight. With that into consideration, it was extremely impressive.
^^^ Kongo i think would be too bad a match up stlye wise. The only thing Kongo has pulled off consistently in his last two fights are his deliberate but effective take-downs, which would not be a factor in a lesnar fight. gonzaga is at least a dynamic striker with a good BJJ base, which makes for a much more compelling matchup
It pains me to remark that, with his destruction of Herring, Lesnar has earned himself a spot in the Heavyweight Top 10. In the UFC, Lesnar can only be ranked below Nogueira, Werdum, Gonzaga, Velasquez, O’Brien and Mir. Just below Lesnar are Herring and Kongo.
The #1 contender is certainly Werdum, who has stupidly been matched up against an unknown for his UFC debut. Gonzaga and Velasquez should fight each other for the next title shot after Werdum’s.
To continue advancing, Lesnar must fight either O’Brien or Kongo. The winner of that fight would need one additional victory to earn a title shot.
If Lesnar wins 3 fights in a row against Top 10 guys – say, Herring, O’Brien/Kongo and Velasquez/Gonzaga, I’d say he’d earned a shot at the title fair and square.
Lesnar vs Gonzaga would be just incredible. Gonzaga has the tools necessary to dismantle Lesnar – powerful and accurate striking, lethal jiu-jitsu and large size. In my opinion, Lesnar can handle Kongo and O’Brien – Gonzaga is the man who will derail Lesnar.
I agree with most of the above, but I don’t think O’Brien is higher ranked than Lesnar. His last two fights really hurt his standing, and his victory over Herring was less impressive than Lesnar’s. Give O’Brien a fight with Carwin or a debuting fighter and let Lesnar fight a guy like Kongo, which would be a much easier fight to sell to the fans.
On paper, Gonzaga’s BJJ and striking would pose a challenge for Lesnar. The only problem with Gonzaga is that he fades rapidly under pressure. If Lesnar gets it deep into the second round I think he’d break Gonzaga’s will.
For his 3rd UFC fight you guys want to give Lesnar to Gonzaga? Way, way too early.
Let Brock fight some people who are closer to him in experience and rank, and *then* after a couple more victories let him fight Gonzaga if/when he’s ready.
The UFC’s strategy, I’m sure, isn’t to TRY and ‘expose Lesnar. That would be idiotic from every conceivable standpoint.
I thought that Huerta looked significantly bigger than Florian (maybe you’re measuring guys by the length of their shorts),
Huerta looked more cut up but Florian’s frame looked way bigger. Noticeably, obviously bigger. I too am confused as to how you’re not seeing that, but, ehh.
Kongo, from a style standpoint, would be one of the easiest fights possible for Lesnar in the UFC. Kongo has very little ground game or takedown defense to speak of, and Lesnar is great at takedowns. Based on that, it would likely be an easy victory for Lesnar.
I’m judging based on arms and shoulders. You couldn’t really see Florian’s thighs because of his board shorts, but Huerta looked pretty big there too.
I try not to judge guys just by their height or width, because that’s all tale of the tape stuff. Maybe I should take another look.
Lesnar vs Gonzaga would be a scary, scary fight. Two very big guys, but Herring is huge as well, and I’m not sure Gonzaga really has much on Herring in terms of size.
Gonzaga might have the height, but I don’t know if he has any reach advantage. I’m also not sure that his BJJ is as good as Mir’s. I’m a big Gonzaga fan, but at the moment I’d have to give the edge to Lesnar. Still, you’d think that Lesnar would have been able to TKO Herring.
If that fight went the full three rounds, it would be very messy.
I wouldn’t say Lesnar is a Top 10 Heavyweight in the world. He is Top 10 in the UFC, and probably Top 15 in the world at this point. Which just shows how weak the Heavyweight Division is in this sport. Just no depth, and even a lot of the top guys are extremely one dimensional.
I think the UFC kind of threw Lesnar to the wolves at the beginning because 1) He was making a lot of money 2) If he wasn’t the real deal, they wanted to save cash quick. It made sense. Now that he has shown he is the real deal, and is taking the sport seriously, I expect Zuffa to build him up more slowly (like their are with Cain & Shane).
As much as the Heavyweight Division isn’t the best right now (and I’ve said in the past I am no fan of the division overall), it could get marginally better over the next year. Brock, Cain, & Shane will all likely have some more good wins under their belts. I expect Affliction to go out of business and the UFC to likely pick up 2 or 3 of those Heavyweights. And all of a sudden, the UFC Heavyweight Division will be respectable again.
45 – I agree Lesnar is top 10 in the UFC…but I can’t even name 10 heavyweights they have so I guess he’s there by default.
If Affliction folds and UFC decides to loosen the purse strings, they could potentially build an incredible heavyweight division. In a dream scenario they could sign Fedor, Barnett and Arlovski, and get Couture to come back into the fold. That would present an almost unlimited number of dream fights from now to maybe 2010.
Right now the only big-money fights I see for them are Penn vs. GSP (looks like a lock now) Nog vs. Lesnar (but that’s a ways off for obvious reasons), Liddell vs. Wanderlei 2, Liddell vs. Griffin, Hughes vs. Serra in a grudge fight if they can re-build the heat for it…I guess they do have a couple good options.
The St. Paul Pioneer Press had articles all week leading up to UFC 87. All of which were quite positve.
The article that actually covered the event was also a good one.
BUT, columnist Tom Powers used the event as fodder for a smug article that, once again, reduces the sport to “cockfighting.”
“It’s as vicious as cockfighting, except you can’t deep fry and eat the loser on a bun. Although a lot of fighters that looked like hamburger limped past the press table after their bouts.”
Another gem:
“The sport is relatively new, so there aren’t any long-term studies. But it’s hard to believe any of the fighters will live long lives. Their internal organs must resemble oatmeal.”
So here is the link to the column.
http://www.twincities.com/ci_10154421
Folks can post feedback, so I ask that everyone take a minute to respond in a polite manner. I have been pushing them to increase coverage of the sport. A strong response may help them realize that there is large audience of potential readers out there.
The UFC Top 10 are:
1. Nogueira
2. Werdum
3. Gonzaga
4. Velasquez
5. O’Brien
6. Mir
7. Lesnar
8. Herring
9. Kongo
10. Carwin
>IceMuncher Says:
>I agree with most of the above, but I
> don’t think O’Brien is higher ranked
> than Lesnar. His last two fights really
> hurt his standing, and his victory over
> Herring was less impressive than
> Lesnar’s.
Fair enough. Make that:
4. Velasquez
5. Mir
6. Lesnar
7. O’Brien
8. Herring
I don’t think the UFC is in any danger of getting good PPV Buys right now. They might not have a lot of HUGE fights on the horizon, but they have a good number of big stars:
Lesnar, Liddell, Rampage, Forrest, Wanderlei, Silva, Franklin, Bisping (UK), GSP, Hughes, Serra, & Penn.
Having a dozen fighters who can really help sell PPV’s is pretty amazing. Not to mention the list of supporting fighters like Mir, Nogueira, Diego, Koscheck, Rashad, Stevenson, and others…. Who probably can’t sell a PPV, but round out the PPV’s nicely.
Well chief, Brock Lesnar trying to ride Heath like a cowboy does seem ghey, lol.
That shit along with him pointing at Heath and laughing at him has no place in MMA. It’s classless.
To everyone badmouthing Lesnar’s actions after the fight (his ‘laso’ing of Herring) how is it any worse than GSP breakdancing and backflipping, BJ licking blood off his gloves, Chuck running arround screaming or Anderson Silva disco dancing after KOing an opponant.
I don’t see anyone telling Anderson to “save that crap for the WWE”. Its a double standard. Plus, people are quick to deride fighters for being boring, but when someone tries to entertain all of a sudden its too pro-wresting for you…
That and KenFlo’s shameless showboating. Did’t Hughes get onto Evans during TUF2 for something similar?
Anyone that thought Lesnar was being Gay knows nothing about wrestling. And I understand why he didn’t put the hooks in…it would have given Herring a way to reverse and possibly get on top. I’m no Lesnar fan, either…but did you see Herring’s face? Messed UP! Lesnar is clearly taking the sport seriously. What remains is to see if we can take him seriously. This fight is a step in the right direction, even if his skills appear rudimentary at this point.
45 Huddle Says:
Having a dozen fighters who can really help sell PPV’s is pretty amazing. Not to mention the list of supporting fighters like Mir, Nogueira, Diego, Koscheck, Rashad, Stevenson, and others…. Who probably can’t sell a PPV, but round out the PPV’s nicely.
———
Also keep in mind that after they coach the next season of TUF, Nog and Mir will probably be able to draw a PPV on their own.
Oh come now. Frank Mir able to draw a PPV on his own? Only if he wins, which won’t happen. Then when he loses, they’ll run him and Lesnar again.
I was over at CrapDog and some of the seething hatred spilling out for Brock Lesnar is horrendous.
I’m reading everything from “Brock is a ‘roid monkey” (did he fail a drug test and I missed the results?), “Brock got one lucky punch but his technique is terrible”, “Brock decided to lay and pray the entire fight” and even “Herring was destroying Lesnar in the stand-up in R3”
And of course, the flip-side which is “Herring wasn’t himself that night! Something MUST have been horribly wrong for him to lose”.
It seems that many people lack the internal software to process the fact that a ‘fake pro wrestler’ is actually an accomplished athlete, and is transitioning into a serious MMA contender.
Surfing those message boards is always good for a smile.
brashleyholland, those don’t compare at all to what Lesnar did. It’s not double standards whatsoever. People have a right to celebrate a victory. And those people you mention didn’t do it to take the piss on their opponent. Because what Lesnar did was he did it BEFORE the round was over and when the round was over he POINTED at Herring and laughed at his face. How that is not disrespectful is beyond me.
I’m not hating Lesnar for his performance. He impressed me with how he improved so quickly. What I wasn’t impressed at was him blatantly disrespecting Herring.
I have never once seen Brock in the WWE or any other pro rasslin group. I never even saw a picture of him in the ring. Maybe that is why I have no bad feelings for him. People need to relax and judge the guy fairly. Plenty of fighters have done pro rasslin’ as well as MMA.
It’s good for the heavyweight division and UFC to have Lesnar in the stable. Lesnar is only going to stay as long as he’s enjoying what he’s doing and he clearly was having a good time over the weekend.
If his showboating is the key to having a solid “southern strategy,” I’m more than happy to enjoy watching it.
Didn’t Nate Quarry taunt Kalib Starnes at the end of their fight?
“Didn’t Nate Quarry taunt Kalib Starnes at the end of their fight?”
Yeah, but Kalib deserved it. A lot.
However, I don’t know what Herring was saying to Brock during their fight, so maybe he deserved it?
Lesnar was being a bit of a bad sport near the end, but whatever. I’m more concerned with what happens in the actual fight than what is said before/after.
From Melzter:
“–The leading candidate, but this isn’t signed or fully agreed to, as the next opponent for Brock Lesnar, is Cheick Kongo”
This makes the most sense. They both fought on the same card. Kongo has no takedown defense, but is still in the Top 15 of the world.