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WEC 12/12 Las Vegas

By Zach Arnold | December 12, 2007

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Event reports: MMA Weekly | Sherdog | The Fight Network | MMA Junkie | MMA Mania

All comments about the event go here.

I’m sure there is a lot to talk about regarding the finish of the Paulo Filho/Chael Sonnen fight. Plus, that was quite the showing for Jens Pulver.

According to Kevin Iole, Chael Sonnen said that referee Josh Rosenthal apologized to him for making a mistake. However, Keith Kizer isn’t buying into the stoppage being a bad one. Naturally, Iole also has comments from Dana White in his article. Iole also hinted in his article that Filho may move up to 205.

Dave Meltzer is reporting that a fight between Urijah Faber and Jens Pulver in 2008 could happen outside of Las Vegas and at a bigger-than-usual-WEC-show venue.

Topics: Media, MMA, WEC, Zach Arnold | 33 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |

33 Responses to “WEC 12/12 Las Vegas”

  1. Amazingly enough, a lot of Jens Pulver hate with the hooligans I was watching with. Glad to see Jens pull off that impressive choke.

    Valencia with the uppercut/suplex combination, has to be combo of the year, lol.

  2. David M says:

    I really enjoyed seeing Jens embarrass that pseudo thug from the OC. Cub Swanson in his preview clip actually said “I’m gonna kill him.” Oops.

  3. doem says:

    Filho still looked small compared to his PRIDE days, and Chael completely sat on his take-downs….good thing he had some serious BJJ to pull out the win

  4. Zach Arnold says:

    This was seriously a great week for Zuffa-related MMA content.

  5. Michaelthebox says:

    Seriously, Zach. WEC shows are getting better every time out. Now we’re getting suplexes, chicken-neck-wringing chokes, quick ass kickings, and shady fight finishes in championship fights.

    At this rate I don’t know how they’ll take it up a notch for the next show.

  6. Chuck says:

    Some good fights tonight! That German suplex was a thing of beauty! Pulver looked like a monster. Filho and his armbar was great, and I don’t blame the ref ONE BIT for stopping the match right then and there. Having torn muscles to show you are tough is NOT worth it.

  7. David M says:

    Filho got incredibly lucky that Chael is a moron. Mir was dead on that Chael was killing the Brazilian on the feet, almost got subbed when he stupidly took him down in the first round, and showed a complete lack of sub defense in the second round, which is unfortunately a hallmark of American wrestlers..

    Filho should be at 170 btw…

  8. Grape Knee High says:

    Filho definitely needs to drop to 170 (and I’ve been saying that here for a while).

    I don’t think it’s that Filho is smaller than he was in PRIDE. It’s just that everyone in PRIDE was fighting in a weight class heavier than the equivalent in the UFC.

  9. doem says:

    the five inches Chael had on him really looked insurmountable

  10. The Gaijin says:


    I’ve read in several places that Filho walks around at like 210…that would be a hell of a cut wouldn’t it? I mean he’s pretty stocky to begin with!

  11. Michaelthebox says:

    Grape Knee High: I don’t think Filho really suffers from much of a weight disadvantage, he supposedly cuts from 205, which is probably average for his weight class. He’s all muscle though, and if you’ve got that much muscle, you gotta have some massive wrestling skills to make sure you can put it to use on the ground. Sherk deals with being a short-armed midget by explosive wrestling, but Filho doesn’t have that sort of ability.

    He can stay at 185, but he’s going to have to improve his wrestling immensely.

  12. doem says:

    Filho could cut to 170 but it would be terrible PR for him. Nobody right now wants to see him at 170, they want to see him at 185. It looked bad for him tonight though, the reach disadvantage coupled with the almost comical looping punches almost put his lights out

  13. Grape Knee High says:

    Yes, Filho for sure has a stocky build, but so does Matt Hughes, with whom I think Filho shares a similar build, height, and body type.

    Weight and muscle-wise, yes, I think he could stay at 185, but I think for him to be truly successful in the US MMA scene, he would need to drop to 170 (just as Gono and Chonan before him, and as Lombard was planning to).

    Whatever Filho claims he walks around at, his limiting factor will be his height and reach, both of which really point to him having problems with 85ers in America.

    How would he even compete with someone like Yushin Okami who has a good 7″ of height on him and god know how many inches of reach? And this is a Yushin Okami who fought at 175 just 2 years ago (against Silva), yet still manages to overpower UFC 85ers.

  14. David M says:

    Filho said he is thinking of fighting at 205—LOL, he would get absolutely trainwrecked by any top 20 205er, no question about it. I love how Kevin Iole managed to say that Filho is an “explosive striker” when he didn’t even come close to landing a single strike against “world class” striker Chael Sonnen, who looked completely dominant on the feet. Filho doesn’t have the same body type Matt Hughes has, for what it’s worth; Filho is a lot stockier; I tend to think he would struggle to make 170, but if Joe Riggs can do it, Filho needs to man up and get on a treadmill..

  15. David says:

    I was telling everybody I knew that this would be one of the best cards of the year. They packed Curran, Faber, Pulver, Filho, Valencia, and the Rhino all onto one spectacular card.

    I had a hell of a night watching this event. Faber is the “Fedor” of the Featherweight division in the world and I think he would give KID a run for his money.

    Rhino showed he has some Jiu-Jitsu. Filho showed he is a moron, but a hell of a good moron! I was thinking, “SHOOT YOU IDIOT, SHOOOT!” and he was being the “knucklehead” that the pre-owned Sonnen so eloquently labeled him.

    Jens said he felt pressure to use his bomb a left in his recent fights. Against BJ I don’t think it would matter because BJ is a “Just Scrap”-type scrapper; However, Pulver showed that hes got a slick jitz game and I am more than excited to see the two major Featherweight winners of the night go at it.

  16. IceMuncher says:

    Faber looked like an unstoppable beast tonight. Curran had no chance of submitting him from the back. Faber was peeling Curran’s arms away as easily as I’d fight off a RNC choke from a 13 year-old.

    I’d love to him fight Kid Yamamoto. I think Faber would give Kid all that he can handle and then some. He’s got 2 inches of height on Kid and Kid still looks much trimmer, so I think Faber would enjoy a sizable strength advantage. Plus Kid didn’t look too impressive in his last showing, whereas Faber’s been steamrolling everyone, including a top guy like Curran.

  17. Some ignorance in the Filho comments. Ignoring the fact that Filho was almost knocked out standing in the first flurry and when Sonnen threw him down, it was because he caught that punch before the takedown. Being rocked for most of the round doesn’t help you.

  18. THE HUNTER says:

    are you guys nuts? Filho at 170lbs?

    The guy has been saying for years (in interviews) he walks around at 210lbs. The interview above this thread, from last night, Filho said he was recently walking around at like 212lbs or so. He was 203lbs three days before the fight this time. Also, last but not least, Filho also states he dislikes cutting weight. It should be noted that is pretty apparent now too, based off of his performance last night.

    Paulo is not fighting at 170lbs ANYTIME soon. No chance. He could never get down to that weight.

  19. Grape Knee High says:

    Keep in mind, guys, that Filho cutting from 203 to 185 is not an amazing feat. Many, many 185ers cut from 200+ lbs. At this point, it’s almost required to be successful in the UFC.

    Franklin walks around at 215. Baroni used to claim he cut from 215-220. If Filho is walking around at 212, it’s only because he doesn’t like cutting. Tough titty for him. As a fan, I personally don’t like the massive weight-cutting either, but it’s a part of the game.

    And I’m not saying that Filho will be cutting to 170 any time soon. But if he doesn’t, I also don’t see him being very successful at 185.

    Filho is 5’8″ and he does not have an exceptionally wide frame. That is extremely small for MW. He will always have height and reach problems at 185 against guys that know how to cut massive amounts of weight.

    How many lackluster fights against marginal fighters will it take for people to see the truth?

  20. ttt says:

    props to the WEC for a great show!
    no long commercial breaks in between fights or unecessary dancers, simple and good looking previews (better than UFC imo)

    all the fights were entertaining, but it would be better if they had some more skilled fighters who wouldn’t get finished in a few minutes

  21. Yeah, I had no problem with the stoppage.

    That guy was going to tough it out and suffer a serious, serious injury.

  22. Ryan says:

    One of the great things was the lack of downtime between fights (comparatively speaking, of course). They only had maybe 3-5 mins of buildup per fight, not including the commercial breaks. Why the heck can’t UFC do that too?

    UFC is getting too complacent with their content. If they don’t consistently show awesome fights, people are going to start tuning out. I know UFC things they need to build stars, and they do, but they also need to show good fights. What am I talking about? Well, they haven’t shown fight of the night multiple times: Dent/Huerta (awesome), Gurgel/Saraiva (okay, better than most), Lytle/Alves (good lord), Grice/Black, Leites/Sell (I think was FotN), etc. Not to mention the dozens of great undercard fights.

    Can UFC really be making THAT much money off InDemand?

    The other thing I think deserves mentioning is the disgustingly biased commentating of Mir/Goldie-wannabe during the Faber/Curran fight. I actually like Faber, and thought he would win, but after their commentating started I was rooting for Curran.

    I mean, that was the most ridiculous bias I’ve even seen, and it’s obviously due to WEC’s marketing push behind Faber and Curran’s lack of history in the organization (it looks bad if Curran, with one WEC win, comes in and beats their “unbeatable” champ).

  23. So, Filho goes 15-0 as Middleweight, gets caught early, and has problems for the rest of the fight, so he should drop to 170? Give me a break.

  24. Tomer Chen says:

    My question is: Who is there for Filho to face at 185 in the WEC? Will they have to start importing in outside fighters to challenge him or is he justified in thinking about going to 205 and challenge Doug Marshall (who he apparently has shown disdain for in the past)?

  25. Grape Knee High says:

    Leland, you’re website is mma-analyst, is it not? I’m surprised you’re not looking at this situation with more of a critical eye even though Filho has been winning.

    Filho did not just get caught. He was exposed as having reach and height problems against a very average-sized MW. Sonnen’s standup is mediocre at best, but he was able to beat Filho on the feet simply due to his reach advantage.

    Am I correct in saying that I think he’s too small for 185? Time will tell, but I’m just stating my opinion right now. But any reasonable person would see that he’s had size issues fighting against two average-sized MWs in Doerksen and Sonnen, even though he’s won both fights.

    I’m sure he can stay at 185 and do reasonably well. I don’t think he has a chance to be a UFC champion anytime soon at 185.

  26. If Chuck loses at the end of the month…does anything think that Zuffa might invite him to head up WEC cards?

    There’s a little thinner pool of talent at LHW in WEC, but there’s way too many guys at LHW in UFC right now.

    By putting a second very high profile fighter in WEC, they could help legitimize that division and move some guys down who can’t entirely cut it in UFC (I’m thinking Hamill here, but you could move some of the other elder circuit guys like Ortiz down if Liddell was there to fight them).

    Is there a way that that can happen that would be regarded by the wider MMA audience as a lateral move that could improve the WEC and at the same time help remove some of the congestion that exists in UFC at the moment?

  27. cyphron says:

    Does anyone still think that Filho can hang with Anderson Silva? I highly doubt it. Perhaps Rich Franklin should go to the WEC and challenge the middleweight belt.

  28. Jim Allcorn says:

    Good idea. Makes a lot of sense to me, but I seriously doubt the idea would ever occur to Dana. There’s no way he allows his own personal UFC “posterboy” compete in another organization. Even if it’s own organization!

    If (when IMO) Liddell loses later this month, I think we might actually see a brief Chuck retirement. About six or nine months after which, he’ll announce a big comeback where he’ll belt out one or two lower echelon Zuffa fighters before taking on the winner of Rampage vs Griffin.

    As for the WEC’s 205 title, I have a feeling they’re just going to let Rhino keep it warm until they figure Brian Stann is ready to step up to bid for it.

  29. Chuck says:

    I don’t think Filho is even 5’8″. He looks more like 5’5″ or so. Hell, look at Joe Stevenson, who is billed as being 5’7″. He looked like he was 5’3″. Heh, and Dana White says UFC isn’t like pro wrestling…

    Hey, I like the anti-spam words, especially the fact that they are rpo wrestling terms. Yesterday it was carny, today it’s booker. So what’s next? Potato? Stiff? Kayfabe? Broadway?

  30. cyphron says:

    I’m sure everyone quotes their height with shoes on. Although I don’t think Filho is any shorter than 5’8″. It’s pretty hard to walk around 200 lbs if he’s 5’5″.

  31. ilostmydog says:

    Everyone who ever loses or looks unimpressive should drop a weight class. This is fact.

  32. Tomer Chen says:

    Everyone who ever loses or looks unimpressive should drop a weight class. This is fact.

    Would Joe Riggs be a Minimumweight or Flyweight at this point? :p

  33. Chuck says:

    “I’m sure everyone quotes their height with shoes on. Although I don’t think Filho is any shorter than 5?8?. It’s pretty hard to walk around 200 lbs if he’s 5?5?.”

    Just ask that to Jushin “Thunder” Liger, who is probably more like 5’3″ and is RIPPED TO SHREDS. Zach Arnold and the other pro wrestling nuthuggers can back me here.

    And I think everyone quotes their heights anymore with lifts or platforms nowadays. I am a legit 5’5″ and I am taller than many supposed 5’10” wrestlers, if not maybe the same height.


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