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Five things I learned from the UFC 75 conference call
By Zach Arnold | August 30, 2007
By Zach Arnold
Luke Thomas wrote-up an excellent summary of the UFC 75 conference call. My first thoughts after reading the summary:
- Renato Babalu was fired from UFC for holding a choke hold on David Heath for around 3-4 seconds after the referee asked him to let go. Babalu’s firing sounds more designed for Public Relations than it does for business matters. White sounded like he wanted Babalu to be a babyface rather than a heel, even though being a heel would have drawn better business.
- You can get fired in UFC if you display a lapse in judgment or bad behavior, but if you get busted for steroids or are Dana White’s best friend in the whole world you likely won’t or may not get fired.
- Despite White calling PRIDE “a tainted brand,” he sure didn’t mind using the PRIDE name to hype up the Jackson vs. Henderson fight, did he? Ironically, White then basically declared that after the fight the PRIDE 205-pound belt would be eliminated. White can’t get his story straight on what the PRIDE brand is — “tainted” or “such a big brand.” Once again, another business topic that White can’t figure out a position on (mainly because of his stupidity). I had to laugh at this line about doing business in Japan: “We’re lucky to rent office space.”
- Rampage Jackson and his camp have declared a public relations war on PRIDE fighters who they thought were on the secret sauce. Stating that Wanderlei Silva couldn’t “juice” like he wanted is going to stir up the hardcores, but in his mind I’m sure he’s telling the truth. The irony was thick, as Dana keeps flip-flopping back and forth about whether the PRIDE brand is “tainted” or “a big brand” while Jackson basically tainted it on his own accord by saying the guys he fought in the PRIDE ring were steroid users.
- We aren’t going to see Josh Barnett ever in UFC. Dana White — “Nobody gives a shit about Josh Barnett, especially me.”
Topics: Media, MMA, PRIDE, UFC, Zach Arnold | 53 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |
Arnold… Your hate for the UFC is getting to the level of PATHETIC.
1. It just wasn’t his actions. It was his words after the fight that showed his intent.
2. There is a major difference between taking an illegal substance and trying to choke somebody out and possibly cause brain damage.
3. The “Pride Brand” is tainted. But that doesn’t mean the fighters from that organization aren’t top notch. That is the point being made.
4. Same as point #3.
5. Justice? Barnett royally screwed over Zuffa. He held their belt hostage after he tested positive while winning the belt. He deserves much worse then just being called names by Dana White. If anything, Barnett is too blame.
Also, White has not been best friends with all of the guys getting busted for roids. Get your facts straights. Dana White has stayed strong behind Sean Sherk and Nathan Marquardt. He showed no support of Josh Barnett, Tim Sylvia, Hermes Franca, or Stephan Bonnar. Nor has he shown support for Diego Sanchez or Thiago Alves who had lesser infractions. So the way I see it… And I’m sure I’m missing a few, he has backed up at the most 25% of the offenders. That isn’t a lot.
[White sounded like he wanted Babalu to be a babyface rather than a heel, even though being a heel would have drawn better business.]
Please, no more pro-wrestling references in legit sports, they don’t have a place. I’m postive Pacman Jones’ draw as a heel didn’t come up when Commissioner Goodell made the decision to suspend him for a year. TNA picked him up specfically to captialize off of his perception in the media, go figure.
There’s a time when public & media outcry outweighs an athlete’s worth to a company, Babalu just found that out.
I can’t remember anyone being fired in the UFC for getting popped for perfomance enhancing or recreational drugs, and there’s been a few, not all who were Dana’s buddies either.
with Dana’s brainpower, Im not surprised he found it hard to rent office space in Tokyo
Barnett was the only one on your list who got terminated from UFC for steroids. Marquardt eventually got brought back and pushed in a main event after the boring fight with Ivan Salaverry, which was his ‘crime.’ No one else on that list got terminated for drug usage.
Babalu got cut because he was expendable business-wise, hence his firing is more or less for PR than for business.
Trying to create a story out of nothing. Want to here some legit news:
http://www.wrestlingobserver.com/wo/news/headlines/default.asp?aID=20580
Now that is actually a story. Not a manufactured hate fest.
Do you ever mention Dana or the UFC without bashing them? Seriously man, anything they do or say lately just isn’t right with you. Get over it bro.
I find it funny that every UFC defender here on the site thinks I hate UFC and the fighters, which couldn’t be further from the truth. What I hate are the ridiculous statements and half-truths that Dana continues to spin in the media.
It took me 15 minutes to read Luke’s summary and write a response, hardly in a manner of ‘roid rage either. I cannot believe that people still think White has credibility on the issue of PRIDE or (for the most part) steroids.
Wait a minute…. Barnett got terminated for using steroids? Are you sure about that?
Barnett refused to sign another contract because he was playing hardball with the UFC. Zuff wanted to sign him again… Barnett did not want to. He wanted to go off to Japan to earn his “millions”…..
The steroids test led down to the deteroriation of that relationship and ultimately Barnett went to Japan (working against Nagata on 1/4/03 at the Tokyo Dome).
Go here and read the Barnett story:
http://www.fcfighter.com/news0204.htm
It sure sounds like Dana was supporting him to me when he tested positive (before the hearing):
“It is public knowledge that Josh Barnett is in current contract negotiations with Zuffa, and rumors have run rampant regarding his future with the UFC as well as numerous MMA promotions around the world. When asked how these recent developments will effect negotiations with Barnett, again White stated, “It depends on what the Athletic Commission decides. If he gets suspended for a certain amount of time… it’s serious. It’s very serious. You have to look at us as a company and the money we’ve invested in Josh Barnett to build him up to the spot where he fights for the title, wins it, but then it doesn’t count — because he cheated?” But keeping in mind that the allegations are currently just that, he added, “The bottom line is, at the end of the day, we can talk and speculate all we want. Until he has a hearing, we really can’t speculate or make any decisions till we find out. But if that was the case that he is guilty, then that would be my position.” As for rumors that Barnett was or is being courted by rival promotions and how these new developments fit in with that, White had this to say: “This has nothing to do with him wanting to go to Japan or anything like that. All of that is speculation, too. Every conversation we’ve ever had with Matt Hume and Josh Barnett is that Josh and Matt are fairly dealing with us and us alone and they want to be a part of the UFC. And we want Josh Barnett to be a part of the UFC, or we wouldn’t have made the investment we made putting him in the position for a title. As for the contract negotiations, I’m in them right now with Josh. I want Josh. I want him to be a part of the UFC, but it’s all going to depend on how this thing ends up with the Commission.””
If you want to read mindless puffery and boosterism of Dana White or the UFC then ufcjunkie.com is that a way—->
one of the refreshing things about Zach’s site is that he doesn’t have his head up anyone’s ass …. everyone get’s a reaming.
45 you talk about Barnett holding the belt hostage and devaluing the title…… I don’t think he did any thing worse than randy did in walking away from the title after beating mo smith…… of course he is just one of many that have made the UFC Belt worthless over the years (Randy walking away from it, Bas vacating it, Sylvia and Barnett being stripped for Roids)
Dana White has no credibility on the steroid issue. None. What moron would deny that the year-round, unnanounced testing regime that has worked wonders in track and field and cycling is the obvious solution to the 2007 Biblical Steroid Megacrisis (of Doom).
Also, what promoter in their right mind would cut Babalu? When he refused to release that choke the crowd heat was insane; I’m talking Hogan/Rock WM18 levels here. If Gilbert Yvel and Branco Cikatic aren’t on the next flight to Vegas, Dana has no credibility when it comes to capitalizing on heel heat.
The Couture situation was completely different. First, that was under the old owners who would tell a fighter that he was getting $50,000 for a fight, and then try and offer him $30,000 for his next one.
“Dana White has no credibility on the steroid issue. None. What moron would deny that the year-round, unnanounced testing regime that has worked wonders in track and field and cycling is the obvious solution to the 2007 Biblical Steroid Megacrisis (of Doom).”
It has worked? Not really. Athletes were still drugging up and not getting caught for years with track and field competitions. Just goes to show you that even with “more stringent” testing, it really doesn’t matter.
You ever heard of sarcasm 45 huddle?
I don’t know that Zach hates Zuffa, but I do think once he has something in his head, he looks for things to back him up.
Regarding the whole Pride situation: After the sale was announced, it came out that things were a far bigger mess than they thought.
It also came out that they ended up paying far less than originally thought.
Is anyone other than Zach reading Dana comments as being anything other than the state of Pride right now, as opposed to what Pride was?
Of course they will use Pride to promote the upcoming fight. Pride was filled with great bouts. but that does not change the fact that Pride ended with lots of outstanding debt.
Zach, you say you hate the ridiculous half-truths Dana says. But, like any good hate, you seem to be looking for Dana to say things for you to hate. Try and pull back and be more objective, because it is really coming across as you’re hating on Dana based on things that aren’t there.
Josh Barnett making an ass out of himself in Babalu’s corner probably did more to fuck up his relationship with the UFC at this stage as anything else he’s done previously.
Zach writes up the PRIDE yakuza scandal: Zach is a biased UFC fan
Zach writes up Dana White’s scattershot, contradictory statements: Zach is a biased UFC hater
I love MMA fanboys.
Yeah sheesh. Everyone knows Zach is an equal opportunity hater 😉 He even hates rainbows and puppy dogs!
its funny how Zach got hammered by Pride fanbois when he was the only one writing about and breaking the Pride yakuza scandal
time proved Zach right on Pride
Zach got hammered again when he was the first to break the problems with zuffa’s acquisition of Pride (contracts not assignable, tainting of the Pride brand with Japanese TV execs etc)
he was right again
now he makes valid criticisms of Dana and UFC fanbois gets upset?
I’ll let you in on a little secret, 45huddle is Dana White…
Christ 45. Change your tampon.
I was about to mention the same thing ditch.
“I get no respect I tell ya.”
Amen. You can replace UFC with DSE, IFL, EliteXC, etc. and it still applies. The site is moving from criticism to outright cynicism, spinning every comment to the worst possible interpretation. #4 in particular… geez, talk about sensationalism.
I find myself always agreeing with 45.
Zach, like others have said already, you’ve become increasingly cynical as of late. After reading the conference call, then reading your list, it really looks like you’re trying to pick out things to angrily rant about.
Also, the ref didn’t just “ask” Babalu to let go. I mean, he did ask, but then after he didn’t listen for a couple seconds he was forced to jumped in and try to physically pry his arms open for 3 whole seconds. The truly damning part was Babalu’s post fight interview. The choke-out alone would not have canned him. To compare this incident to steroid use is laughable.
“Dana keeps flip-flopping back and forth about whether the PRIDE brand is “tainted” or “a big brand””
I don’t understand the mental disconnect here.
The PRIDE brand was a big brand, the first [or arguably second, to K1] biggest in Japan, with some of the best fighters one the planet.
AND it’s tainted, due to the Yakuza influence and its downfall.
One doesn’t exclude the other, at all.
It’s both, clearly, and you’re playing “aha!” and creating a false dualism where there is none.
And feeding the “Zach hates UFC” crowd.
“White said that despite the tone of past interviews, he was always planning to cut Babalu from the organization.”
I was on the call and I don’t remember that at all. I could be wrong, but I didn’t hear that.
I can’t find fault with any of Zach’s points. A big issue is the lack of consistency Dana White continually shows when making statements to the press. It leaves him wide open for criticism.
You also need to look at how he’s handled the Sean Sherk and Hermes Franca steroid issue. He buried the hell out of Franca in the press, but he wants people to reserve their judgment regarding Sherk.
zach does NOT hate the ufc. Huddle you got get your head up out yo ass.
Dana not wanting josh is ridiculous to me he is the second most compelling HW after fedor. What a weirdo.
I read Dana’s “tainted” comments to be a reference to the yakuza connections – nothing more, nothing less. And if that is what he is referencing, it doesn’t in any way diminish Pride fighters or the quality of the actual shows and competition. It just means the previous owners were involved with disreputable people, and he can’t get out from under that.
Todd,
Here’s the logical fallacy with Dana’s “tainted” comments.
Lorenzo Fertitta and Zuffa had to have known about the yakuza scandal. You couldn’t avoid it if you read this site and others — and some people inside Zuffa likely read this site (because of past e-mails I’ve gotten). When they purchased the PRIDE assets from DSE, Dana went around bragging about what a “strong brand name” PRIDE is. As recently as a month ago, he said in a Japanese magazine that PRIDE was Japan’s #1 brand and HEROs was #2. Given the circumstances, this was such a laughable statement.
So, why did White suddenly change his tune a month after making those comments to the Japanese press? We don’t know. I can make guesses and assumptions relating to certain events, such as the Ed Fishman lawsuit settlement with DSE Inc. and the rumor that one of the provisions of the settlement is that PRIDE won’t come back, but I don’t have any concrete facts to prove why Dana keeps flip-flopping on the PRIDE brand value.
Here’s the problem for Dana and the whole “tainted” comment. The Nevada Gaming Commission is extremely sensitive about licensees and who they do business with. In other words, if you’re licensed by them stay the hell away from the mafia. That’s why I was always puzzled as to why Zuffa took a risk in dealing with DSE Inc., considering how high-profile the yakuza scandal was in Japan and translated in English on several top sites. It was a known story. All Dana is doing by using the word “tainted” is drawing attention to the fact that they did business with an organization that had accusations and allegations made against them in a high-profile scandal, which is not a good move on his part. Too many logical inconsistencies and flip-flops for him not to get called out on the carpet for it.
When he says stupid things like “it’s hard to rent an office in Japan,” how can you not laugh at him? Those kinds of statements are total crediblity killers. However, the joke was on him when DSE had Hustle running angles and doing business in the PRIDE offices while Zuffa’s staff were supposedly trying to take over the operations in Japan.
the big question is who got taken for the ride in the UFC/PRIDE fiasco.
Did the Fertittas pay up big for the PRIDE business? in Japan, its generally accepted that they payment made was about $10-12m. What happened to this money? Did Fishman get his hands on it before it went to the yakuza?
Its the great untold story – did Sakakiyakuza get the last laugh on Dana by selling him a $12m lemon or did the Fertittas humiliate their major competition and not have to pay much for it at all?
Seems to me, that Dana is a bit of a moron and got played like a fool by the Japanese criminals who owned DSE
You should get your facts straight first.
Josh Barnett: was gone from the UFC because his contract had expired and he wanted more money, not because he tested positive for steroids. If his contract wasn’t up, he would have been right back in the UFC just like the vast majority of other UFC fighters who have tested positive for steroids.
Tim Sylvia: They put in a title fight shortly after he came back from suspension.
Hermes Franca: They haven’t said one way or the other what his UFC future is, but you’d think that if they were releasing him they would say that in the mainstream media interviews when outlets like ESPN were breathing down their necks actually asking intelligent questions about the huge holes in MMA’s drug policy. One would think that if they were releasing him, that would be something they would point to in response to media questions.
Stephan Bonnar: Dana White repeatedly said in media interviews that Stephan Bonnar made one stupid mistake and that he’s a good kid who deserves a second chance (and he got that second chance shortly after his nine-month suspension ended). I’m not saying that it’s wrong to have said all that, but it does mean that it’s inaccurate when you say they never supported him publicly.
Thiago Alves: falls into the same category as Bonnar, but less emphatic in the public statements that he just made a stupid mistake
Diego Sanchez: Seriously, are you kidding me? They kept his positive drug test a secret. They posted all of the previous drug test failures on their web site, then Diego tested positive in California last December and they never mention it once on their web site, in a media interview, or anywhere else. Even after it became public through the good journalism of Carlos Arias (who got the info from the CSAC, not from Zuffa), I still don’t think they ever even acknowledged that Sanchez had been suspended.
“When they purchased the PRIDE assets from DSE, Dana went around bragging about what a “strong brand name” PRIDE is…
So, why did White suddenly change his tune a month after making those comments to the Japanese press? We don’t know. ”
Actually, we kinda do. It seems to me obvious that the UFC was operating under the assumption fairly common in American/Western business practice/buyouts that brand new owners = whole new ballgame.
The tune changed due to, imho, two factors, that 1 – In Japan, the appearance of impropriety is far more important than impropriety itself. [god bless honne/tatame]
In other words, the fact that the PRIDE name is now associated with the yakuza weighs far heavier than the fact that the UFC doesn’t actually have yakuza connections. And 2 – in a catch 22, in order to run fights in Japan or get on TV you DO have to have yakuza connections. It’s a lose/lose for the UFC as the owners of PRIDE as far as business in Japan goes.
Bad business decision, but I think they just didn’t know what they were getting into. Going into my 5th year here, Japan can sure be kooky.
I totally believe it’s “hard to rent an office” for them. They’ve been pretty much painted as the “ugly American/gaijin taking over our precious Japanese company” in the media [and this in spite of the yakuza nonsense] and own a formerly yakuza connected company. Not at all surprising there’s not a dearth of folks looking to help them out.
As far as the NV gaming issue, even after all the news about the yakuza and PRIDE, PRIDE still got licensed in Vegas, so I don’t understand how you think this comment will cause trouble now…
I still disagree that Dana is “flip flopping.” There’s nothing inherently contradictory with the fact that the PRIDE name was, and is, huge in Japan, with the fact that it’s “tainted.”
Anyone can rent an office in Tokyo if they have the cash to do it. What, do multi-national companies not exist in Japan’s capital? 🙂
The licensing procedures and guidelines with the NSAC vs. the NGC are far different. The former cares about money and the latter cares a lot about having clean operations.
Of course they do. 🙂 And in Japan, folks can legally refuse to rent to you for almost any reason, including the fact that your gaijin [or Korean] or you might disturb the “wa.” Or if the yakuza controls most of the building/real estate market and the upstart gaijin company who took one of your cash cows out from under you was trying to shoehorn into a market you feel is rightfully yours. Just sayin’. Not surprising. And not quite as easy you might think for THIS particular “multinational”.
I’m not familiar with the distinctions between the the NSAC and the NGC, admittedly. I’m just asking, a whole PRIDE event was licensed in NV without any real problem despite/after the yakuza scandal, yes? Apologies if I’ve the timeline wrong.
NSAC— licensing MMA, boxing, and kickboxing events
NGC— licensing casinos and other gambling
Mr.Arnold spent much time ripping Pride before. Now that Pride is gone, he has to focus his poor “journalism” some where. I don’t care that he writes many opinion pieces here (hence the name of this site). But what I hate is when he passes off his “hate opinions” as “journalism”.
HateOpinion.com, perhaps? Someone snatch that domain up!
Use the search engine options on the right sidebar of the main page and let me know where I used the word journalism. Looking forward to it.
You used to be a bigger fan of the web site when I wasn’t criticizing Dana White as much, but now that his questionable statements are being critiqued, you’re not so thrilled about it. That’s OK.
“NSAC— licensing MMA, boxing, and kickboxing events
NGC— licensing casinos and other gambling”
Okay, but my question/point… PRIDE got licensed in Vegas even after the yakuza scandal broke, right? Or no? And if so, what would the big deal possibly be now?
The rules for running a show in Vegas are a lot easier than the analysis for doing a business transaction (i.e. running a show in Vegas like K-1 has versus actually sending a large amount of cash to Japan for a business transaction or asset purchase involving someone with a gaming license).
The “lucky to rent office space” thing from Dana is sadly representative of the lot of many US people who go over to Japan to try to live. It’s not just office space, it’s housing, it’s bank accounts, it’s restaurants that you can’t go into if you’re not Japanese looking and a Japanese citizen (both, just one won’t work).
The Pride brand in Japan is tainted from the perspective of no media outlet will touch it with a ten foot pole. Among fans, particularly the ones in the US, though, the brand is still strong. It’s martyr status has just increased it’s allure in hindsight for a lot of people who will from this day forward continue to remember it as the “golden days” of MMA.
Fightlinker.com
I have it on very good authority that Zach Arnold LOVE puppy dogs. With a side of fried rice and wonton.
How’d you know that I was a big fan of the Al Snow/Big Bossman WWE storyline in the 1990s with the Kennel from Hell match?
1. Yes, Zach Arnolod has a trendancy to hunt for stuff to critique even when there’s nothing there and to then over-sensationalize these invisible objects with severe scrutiny. It’s a common thing to happen when one covers a given subject(MMA in this case) so closely over time.
2. No, Zach Arnold is not anti-UFC, he does this with everything that’s perceived to be the hot topic at that given time.
I think, as so many times before, that the current topic (Dana White)is being handled with a fair core critisism(Dana White really is often inconsistent in his public statements), but that most of the underlining and the exclamation marks are really just mostly a bunch of crap that holds little to no water; aka tabloidism.
It is however absolutely hilarious to see the UFC fanbois “call out” Zach Arnold, not even a year after ZA was pretty much daily being accused of aiming for a spot under the Zuffa umbrella. I find it almost disturbing that human beings can be so short sighted/memory ridden, although this *is* the internet, and nothing comes as a surprise anymore.
“How’d you know that I was a big fan of the Al Snow/Big Bossman WWE storyline in the 1990s with the Kennel from Hell match?”
I must’ve stopped watching by then. The last Bossman program I remember was his classic feud with Nailz (McMahon’s fav independent contractor.)
[…] his UFC contract. I really haven’t commented at all on the whole Babalu ordeal, but I think Zach Arnold sums it up nicely, so I’ll let my good friends on FightOpinion.com speak for me: You can get fired in UFC if […]
The Fertittas and Dana 100 percent for sure knew about the yakuza scandal before they bought. But I don’t think that them labeling the brand “tainted” over that and also saying it’s a strong brand is an inconsistency. The brand is strong with fans, and tainted among business executives. Just as a random example, Death Row Records was a very strong brand as far as producing music while also being very tainted over their behind the scenes dealings. I think it’s two different points that Dana is making there, not an inconsistency or switch in philosophy. I seem to recall Dana referring to Pride as a strong brand even at the post-fight press conference Saturday night. The basic idea is that they have something that is valuable in Japan – the Pride name. But that name is tainted over the business dealings, which makes it impossible for them to get the name to the consumer through TV.
I’m not sure I’d criticize UFC over “dealing” with Pride, either. It seems to me there is an important distinction between purchasing a company’s assets and entering into business with it.
As far as UFC not doing due diligence and looking kind of silly in their unpreparedness for the Japanese market, I’m not going to argue that one. It seems pretty clear at this point they handled the situation wrong from a business standpoint.