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Quotes of the year – Rampage & Henderson
By Zach Arnold | August 22, 2007
From the Orange County Register… let the media firestorm begin.
I asked Juanito about the recent additions of Wanderlei Silva and Mauricio “Shogun” Rua to the UFC. Silva beat Rampage twice and Rua also holds a victory over him. Those fights were held in the PRIDE ring in Japan. Juanito said he believes Silva and Rua had “extra help” when they fought Rampage. He didn’t spell out exactly what that extra help was. But our conversation quickly turned to the fact there was no athletic commission or steroid testing when they fought in Japan. Juanito said the outcome will be much different when they meet in the U.S.
Juanito said he won’t allow any of his fighters to use supplements, creatine or any other concoctions even if they are sold over the counter. He wants his fighters to be clean. If anybody brings any strange supplements into his camp, he said he will kick them off the mountain. He even monitors everything they eat.
Huh. Wonder if anyone will ask Dana White about this? Naturally, the Sherdoggers are on the side of the Chute Boxe fighters.
This is a stressful time for the Henderson family. Henderson’s wife, Alison, is pregnant with their third child. She is due to have a c-section next week, then Henderson will leave for England a day later on Sept. 3. The Henderson’s moved Alison’s c-section up a week, so Dan could be there for his wife.
Henderson said he had asked for the fight to be held in November or even the Sept. 22 date at the Honda Center, but he said UFC president Dana White insisted the fight would have to be on Sept. 8.
I can only imagine the comments that Dana has for Henderson’s soon-to-be third child right about now.
Topics: Media, MMA, UFC, Zach Arnold | 55 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |
unfortunately – due to what was going on in Pride, all Pride fights and fighters need an asterisk against them
this is especially true of the Brazilians – and its not only the roids that are the problem, speed and painkillers were also big on the menu in PRIDE – Chute Box was well known of its fondness of performance enhancers, and hey there not illegal in Brazil and it wasnt against the PRIDE rules, so why not?
it will be interesting to see how Page matches up against clean Chute Box fighters
Listen up, unborn Henderson child. Do you want your pops to be a fucking fighter, or what?
Jordan’s quote gets 5 stars.
Interesting to see the whole thing going public about the pregnancy timeframe of Dan Henderson’s wife. The Wrestling Observer previously reported that Henderson strongly wanted the fight to be on the 9/22 card because his wife was due to give birth around the time of the 9/8 card, but I had no idea that the timeframe of a child’s birth was actually moved up so that the fight could be on 9/8 instead of 9/22.
“Naturally, the Sherdoggers are on the side of the Chute Boxe fighters.”
Rightfully so, if Juanito doesn’t have any proof it’s just slander from his side.
It is generally a problem a problem in Brazil though since steroids are much cheaper then other supplements there.
MLB players often play on the same day as their child’s birth or at least the next day. Henderson’s kid is being born a week before his fight. So there should be no excuses.
As for the Pride fighters, I completely agree. A lot of them are now coming over to the states with a lot of extra body fat and less of a physical appearance. I won’t name any fighters, but there has been enough of them to make it obvious that there was a steroid problem in Pride.
Another fact often overlooked with fighters either fighting in K-1 Hero’s or the UFC is steroids. There are a few fighters who I would easily guess are juicing. And it is no surprise that they want nothing to do with fighting in the US.
:Rightfully so, if Juanito doesn’t have any proof it’s just slander from his side.”
what always interests me about responses like yours is its always in lawyer language – “no evidence” “no proof” “slander”
nobody has said that anybody could allegations of steroid use “beyond a reasonable doubt”. however, we arent in court, and more importantly, courts are not used for finding truth… the are there to execute rules of procedure and evidence
you dont need a criminal conviction to tell you truth – you just have to open your eyes and ears – truth’s funny like that
Dana doesn’t postpone fights. Hendo is going to lose the fight anyway–baby on the way or no.
A) I could say “there is life on the moon or aliens in space (b/c there’s nothing showing there isn’t)” – prove me wrong.
That is such a faulty argument that’s being championed by the likes of 45 and white ninja. Just like the argument saying “they used steroids in Japan b/c there was no testing – so they must have used them!”, even though there is no evidence to back up this claim. Meanwhile you challenge someone to disprove your statement whereby the whole lack of evidence makes it basically impossible to do so.
Check out any type of “logical reasoning” textbook and you’ll find this to be a classic example.
And just like someone who’s smart enough to know cycles and testing dates – there’s just as many people “likely” using steroids, so I guess I can just go ahead and say EVERYONE uses steroids.
45 – who exactly do you think has less muscle mass and more body fat? I don’t think ive seen one fighter with any noticeable difference. I’d like to see the calculations and measurements on these so called persons who looked so physically different. Or is it just because you hold a bias and belief, so you see it that way? And again, you’re using your personal bias and faulty arguments, along with nothing more than antecdotal “analysis of physical appearance” to say there was an obvoius steroid problem.
Fucking laughable.
B) How can Rampage even attempt to claim other people are on steroids, when anyone could easily counter that he’s both much larger and equally if not more ripped than either Chute Box fighter.
Classic sore loser….sore loser x 3.
Rampage is becoming a bit of a wad these days…he got owned and he’s got no excuse for it.
I’d also like to highlight this point of argument as well, as I find it to be highly laughable:
“Steroids are a bigger problem in Brazil b/c they are so cheap. Thus by association, most Brazilian MMA’ers are obviously juicing.”
Ummmm….hi, do you realize what country is bordering the USA?
Right, Mexico – one of the countries with the biggest drug problems in the world, not to mention one of the most porous borders with the USA and maybe some of the cheapestly, most easily obtained drugs on the planet.
The USA is probably one of the worst countries in the world for steroid abuse from high schoolers to professional athletes and can be obtained very easily by a bogus medical prescription (re: WWE etc.) and failing that it’s a very well known fact how easily obtained they are from right across the border in Mexico and smuggled into the US. Professional sports in the USA are also some of the worst, worst, worst of offenders of steroid abuse on any major athletic stage.
And not only is the US one of the easiest places to obtain steroids and also very cheaply from Mexico, but its one of the few countries where professional athletes have the means and ability to be able to mask/hide their abuse of steroids as well.
So to hear this fucking retarded argument from people like 45 et al, reeks of such inherent bias and arrogance of the American sporting supporters and I’m frankly sick and tired of hearing it parrotted like its the gospel. If there’s one country in the world and one group of athletes who should be considered the biggest group of dopers/illegal performance enhancers, its AMERICAN ATHLETES and that includes AMERICAN mma fighters.
If you make a claim without any evidence to back it up, it can be considered defamation of character and potentially opens one up to lawsuits. So, actually, he’s correct that Juanito could potentially be defaming those fighters if he has no proof to back up his claim.
“you dont need a criminal conviction to tell you truth – you just have to open your eyes and ears – truth’s funny like that”
It’s also funny how some people are trying to skew what the “truth” is without having anything to back it up with. I bet Ibarra had no reason for saying what he did right? Shit, he wasn’t even training Rampage back then. But hey if you repeat something enough times it eventually becomes a fact.
This must be about a week old, but I just saw it today and grabbed it, Improper Bostonian has an interview with Dana White in the current issue.
Something of a fluff piece, but it at least manages to avoid the Zuffa Myth trap. My only minor complaint is that Dana didn’t call out the studios here by name, but given that the one in Somerville is Sityodtong, it’s hard to blame him for not recalling it.
It’s a pretty big scan since I also included the big old full page images:
http://jeremy.subbuteoclub.com/improper.pdf
Tomer Chen:
In the United States, the supreme court has determined that statements are neither slander nor libel, even if false, unless they are known to be false by the person who said or printed them.
If there is no evidence either way that the speaker or writer is purview to, then there cannot legally be defamation of character in the United States.
Both Shogun and Wandy were clean when they fought in the US recently.
I don’t like what Juanito is implying.
Well following in line with what Jeremy is saying:
Hmmm…one seems to wonder that Randy Couture is seemingly getting better with age and in better and better shape, with greater muscle mass – something that is basically physiologically impossible for men once they hit into their 40s – much like some other superstar athlete who “re-peaked” in their later years in their sport….Couture – he’s definately on some “supplements”…probably steroids and EPO (since he’s got such awesome cardio).
I don’t know that it’s not false and no one knows if is true…just saying…
So: Randy Couture is the biggest steroid user and EPO abuser this side of Barry Bonds x Lance Armstrong
“Henderson’s kid is being born a week before his fight. So there should be no excuses.”
According to the article, yes the child is being born a week before the fight, but only because they are doing a C-section before the due date, specifically so that they could have the fight on 9/8 instead of 9/22.
45 Huddle, proper etiquette says to take Dana White’s penis out of your mouth before posting.
That’s not true. The tort of false light could be applied against Juanito in this case since, even though, the article says he ‘believes’ that they used illicit substances (which is generally sheltered against defamation laws as being a ‘false idea’ rather than a ‘false statement’; it should be noted, however, that the precedent for this concept in Gertz v. Robert Welch Inc. was reversed in Lorain Journal Co. v. Milkovich) as one can make an argument that he made his claim that was said with a disregard to the legitimacy of the claim and would be offensive to any reasonable person.
In addition, you can be found liable for defamation (slander and/or libel) if you act either in full knowledge of the falseness of the remark or with a blatant disregard for the truth (IE: accusing someone of being a rapist with no evidence to suggest the possibility with the only true intention being to smear their name). New York Times v. Sullivan set that precedent, so it’s not just a knowledge of the falseness that can lead to one being foudn liable. But, as mentioned before, if it actually went to court, it would likely only be successful on the false light claim because the main defamation case would have to get a judge (and appeals judges) that agree with the concept that a false opinion does not protect you from liability.
Also, a similar case to the situation above where even if you don’t know for certain it’s false (as the defendant claimed they didn’t know it was false) didn’t protect them from being found liable for libel was Carol Burnett v. the National Enquirer. Even tabloids/rags are expected to keep a minimal level of research and verification to the truth before they start publicly making claims.
“unfortunately – due to what was going on in Pride, all Pride fights and fighters need an asterisk against them”
Okay…then add an asterisk to every fight where the fighters weren’t tested.
My understanding of False Light (limited, I’m not a lawyer) is that it doesn’t even require that the information actually be false. Rather, it’s about one’s right to privacy, and then the disclosure of private information in a manner that disparages an individual. Also, not every state has even recognized False Light.
For instance, Colorado has specifically rejected False Light as a tort.
http://www.gannett.com/go/newswatch/2002/october/nw1004-4.htm
Perhaps one of our esteemed FightOpinion hosts who is a lawyer in California might enlighten us.
Once and for all, Steroids aren’t legal in Brazil, this is a myth. They can, as in any country, be obtained trough medical prescription, but that isn’t as easy to get as people think, although not impossible. Besides that, they can also be obtained in the “black market” but I don’t think this is any different from any country in the world.
In the past Steroids were easier to get, as most drug stores would sell them without prescription anyway, but that change around 4 years ago, as now control is much more strict.
Regardless, for any pro athlete willing to take steroids, anywhere in the world, no matter what country, it is never difficult. People can’t be so naive to think people would take more or less stuff, based on what country they are in. Also, I might add, although I can’t really question Juanito’s word, that saying none fighter will take any kind of supplement, even if they are regular ones, sounds like something rather amazing. Well, people can believe whatever they want anyway.
According to Wikipedia (I know, I know), there’s 9 states that do not recognize it as a tort, with 11 that have not rendered a judgement one way or the other and 30 (and D.C.) that do believe it’s a valid tort. And from what I was taught in the basic law classes I took (not a lawyer either), false light basically is a less strict version of defamation with lots of the protections reading free speech/expression circumvented as the justification for it is utilizing the ‘invasion of privacy’ argument rather than ‘You slandered my name!’.
But yeah, Gaijin or Jeff or someone like that who actually went through the 3 years of ‘fun’ at Law school should probably be the ultimate judge on this topic. 🙂
I wonder how much of a performance difference it makes to have used roids, but cycled them out of your system by fight night, versus fighting while jacked up on them. I’m of the mind that PRIDE was a glorified drug/roid-fest… but hey, they had some of the best fights ever.
“45 Huddle, proper etiquette says to take Dana White’s penis out of your mouth before posting.”
What about my comments were Pro Dana White? My comments had nothing to do with Dana White. My point is very simple. These guys compete 3 to 4 times a year tops. They should stop crying about their fights being rescheduled. My example of other athletes shows how little this is an issue. In the past few years, there have been baseball players who popped out a kid in the morning, and then had their best game in years that night.
As for steroids, people have to be blind to not think that the majority of the Pride fighters were on roids. There is no way all of these Pride fighters look that out of shape in their first US fights by coincidence. Take a Josh Barnett for example. I will point him out because he was actually caught with steroids in his system. He goes over to Japan, and while he is no Hogan with the muscles, his body easily becomes more defined and he is a shadow of what he once was. As soon as he fights in America again, his physical appearance once again changes for the worse.
As for Couture, that is the worst example ever. Couture was drug tested for years during his Olympic runs. His body has also never had a major joint injury. That is just a freak of nature. Nothing to do with drugs.
You just keep telling yourself that. A guy can actually bulk back up to HW and be in ridiculously, amazing and ripped shape at 45 years old. Where physiologically he should be losing muscle mass and gaining fat mass as well as being unable to train as hard and often as they used to. If you see some older Randy fights he’s definately far more defined that he was earlier. All of these amazing feats also coming after years and years and years of wear and tear from professional competition.
Yes – everyone else that fights in PRIDE is obviously a cheating, steroid abusing fighter and Randy Couture is a freak of nature.
Only in your fucking dreamworld my friend….
If he took steroids, he would be MORE LIKELY to be having some type of surgery at this point in his career. Steroids that make you bigger will put a strain on the muscles and tendons. Steroids that help you recover faster would be damaging joints that can’t take that much abuse. The fact that he has never had a major surgery so far…. If anything…. Proves that he is a clean fighter…. A genetic freak… But clean….
If you want to see what happens to an athlete who is in their mid 40’s who has abused steroids, look at Barry Bonds. And I’m not talking about his muscle mass. I’m talking about him sitting out of a game every other day because his knees and joints are in such bad shape. That is the true signs of a roider.
Your hate for a guy like Couture is pathetic.
I didn’t notice that Barnett looked that different in his Pride USA fight.
Comparing baseball to MMA is asinine. Completely different sport, IMO. Plus what’s wrong with a fighter choosing when he fights, especially if he gives lots of notice? I think it’s cool when the fighters stand up for themselves.
It has nothing to do with a fighter standing up for himself. Can you imagine a baseball player wanting to postpone the World Series because his wife is pregnant. Or a football player with the SuperBowl. Or Tiger Woods with one of the 4 majors. Or Federer with Wimbeldon? No other sport has such cry babies. Those athletes know when they are asked to compete, they do so and compete, or they don’t and they don’t complain. End of story. And this has nothing to do with just UFC Fighters. It has to do with MMA Fighters in general.
Dan Henderson has a boss. His name is Dana White. White says the title fight is on such and such date. Henderson should be prepared. Nothing more to say.
When fighters start taking too much power, that is what happened to boxing. They start ruining the sport. I enjoy the UFC being like every other sport out there. There is a time for a fighter to compete, and then should be there.
All the sporting events you mentioned are planned out months and months in advance. UFC’s are thrown together a couple months in advance tops.
You can see the NBA schedule right now for 2007/2008 and the season doesn’t even start until October.
Bad example, bro.
“Dan Henderson has a boss. His name is Dana White. ”
LOL
The UFC already has their main event for December booked…. Like 6 months in advance.
O RLY? What is it and where can I see this confirmed?
Of course the UFC isn’t going to release it. They have to slowly build up hype. But it is the scheduled fight for that show. Has been so for a while. Meltzer has said this for a few months now.
Haha, wow. This is SO a sherdog thread. The “take Dana White’s penis out of your mouth” comment sealed it.
I love how Dana White fandom has become the ad hominem of choice in the MMA fanboy world.
I dont HATE Randy Couture…I’m simply trying to point out what a fan-boy idiot you are.
I can easily raise my opinion, conjecture, antecdotal “evidence”, bias and ignorance and claim them as facts when there is ZERO evidence.
Look how upset, angry and disgruntled you are getting and all I’m doing is using the SAME arguments, ridiculous statements and “opinions as fact” as you are. The problem is you’re too blind and too big of a LOVE ALL UFC, HATE ALL ELSE to see that point.
You’re a complete and utter idiot and every single post you put on this board is totally worthless. You’re a fucking TUF shill and its absolutely pathetic and I think I speak for more than myself when I say a lot of people are sick of listening to you and your total self absorbed BS.
I LOVE how you seem to think it’s A-OK to say “It’s clearly obvious that most or all of the PRIDE fighters are/were on steroids”. But when someone actually brings up something with a statement similar to yours and not only that but raises some other very interesting musings – suddenly such statements are very inflammatory and you’re seeing RED, and of course “my hate is pathetic.”
YOU ARE PATHETIC.
(****Yaaay UFC!!! Yaaaay DANA….everyone else is the SuxORZZZ!!!11!*** – now 45 is happy again******
http://www.sherdog.com/fightfinder/fightfinder.asp?fighterID=166
p.s. fighting at a max of twice a year might go a long way to prevent injury from overtraining on the old roiders 😉
Well, there WERE less UFC events back when he was more active in the sport, and during a good portion of that time, everyone was being jerked around by Tito Ortiz so all the schedules were fucked up constantly.
Randy is a great story at the moment. He’s got a successful studio with successful students, he’s at the top of his game. However, he’s facing a tough challenge and I don’t know that he stands a chance this time :/
Dangerous weapon wasn’t really describing Tim Sylvia when Randy came up to him, he was mainly riding on being bigger than everyone else.
===
Also, from personal experience, I can confirm that getting your life in order and removing stressors from it can make dramatic improvements in fitness etc even without changing your routine much.
Right now, it’s a good story. It would be a shame if it was a lie.
Just like Sherk.
Jesus, Gaijin, give it a rest already. Being a Zuffa sycophant is bad. Incessantly trolling a Zuffa sycophant is worse.
I’m NOT trying to attack Couture at all – let me please point that out.
I was trying to point out how absolutely ridiculous it is to try to formulate an argument based on the: there’s no evidence that the person is a cheater, but there’s also no evidence that they aren’t a cheater – ergo, they’re a cheater b/c you can’t prove me wrong.
However, someone was a little too dense to GET IT…and why should I and others have to sit by idly instead of letting them dig the hole to china.
whats wrong Gaijin, your very emotive about this issue?
is it that tough to realize that your manga stylised heros from PRIDE may not actually have been what they were hyped to be?
reality sucks some times, but as you get older, itll get easier to handle
No actually I’m pointing out how ridiculous the arguments of people like you are.
I’ll refrain from some protracted flame war with mental midgets like yourself and others (you know who you are). I just am sick of having to read posts from people like yourself who have absolutely NO EVIDENCE to back up your claims, but seem to think that the lack of evidence either way gives you free reign to make retarded claims. It’s called defamation of character/libel/slander, call it what you want to call it, its totally ridiculous and unnecessary…bottom line is I don’t want to see a good site like this ruined by asshat yes-men like you, go post on Sherdog if you want to baselessly bash fighters…funny how some people who seem to think its not a big deal get their panties in a knot when one of the fighters they like is unnecessarily and groundlessly accused of doing something dishonest based on NOTHING.
Everyone is fighting in the UFC now – LET IT GO.
Gaijin, you are a grade A lolcow
Amusing anecdote
Around the time of Wanderlei’s loss to crocop in the OWGP I asked Cyrille Diabate whether or not he thought roids were an issue in Pride. His response went something like this
“No, of course it’s not.
Da Snake
P.S. Do you think Wanderlei put on all that weight by eating sushis?”
The world according to 45 Huddle:
Sherk tests positive for steroids. He is innocent.
Barnett, Silva, Shogun, Gomi, et al all manage to pass their Las Vegas tests, but they are guilty. You know. Because they have “body fat”.
Personally, I think most fighters are or have been on something at some point in their careers, but we’re only getting on 45 because he’s a fanboy with a moronic hatred of everything to do with Pride.
The Gaijn’s obsession with me is a little scary….
First, you never disproved my argument about Couture and roids. And that if he was a roid user, his body would be crap now.
Second, the proof is there on the Pride fighters. Their first event in the US they had 3 guys busted for a banned substance. The guys who weren’t had a major difference in appearance. The guys now in the UFC & WEC are having a major change in appearance. Of course they passed their drug tests. They either aren’t on roids or they have cycled off them so far in advance so they couldn’t get caught.
As for Pride…. What is there to hate? There is no Pride anymore. The only guy in MMA I can’t stand is Gary Shaw, but that is because he is a horrible boxing promoter who eventually had all of his boxers leave him because of the way he does business.
Everybody here has these conspiracy theories on how bad Zuffa is. My favorite was how Zuffa was still pushing Liddell more then Rampage. It was nice to see Rampage on SportsCenter to completely show that those theories were complete BS. The UFC does get behind their champions.
“Of course the UFC isn’t going to release it. They have to slowly build up hype. But it is the scheduled fight for that show. Has been so for a while. Meltzer has said this for a few months now.”
I’m a subscriber and I’m not sure what you’re referring to. Spit it out.
My whole point was that the sporting events you alluded to have defined schedules that are laid out almost a year in advance. The fight world has never been like that, since things are always changing due to wins and losses.
“Everybody here has these conspiracy theories on how bad Zuffa is. My favorite was how Zuffa was still pushing Liddell more then Rampage.”
My personal favorite was the one about when White made the 100% true statement that “the government tests MMA fighters” and people went apeshit because they thought he was trying to trick people into thinking it was the federal government rather than the state government. It doesn’t get any more pathetic than that, I don’t think.
This place is basically a lunatic asylum with a really good rumor mill.
Feel free to not read the site. In fact, let me know what I can do to assist you in this.
Gaijin
you are wrong in saying any of whats been said is “defamation of character/libel/slander” – if you use legal terms, take the time to know what they mean
fighters are public people – like athletes, what they do/dont do is subject to public comment. they are not gods- on the contrary, they have the same problems/waeknesses will all have
if they dont like it, they should give it up and do something else – you should take that advice yourself. your emotion and hysteria adds nothing to the debate. you want to be a lawyer or judge, go to law school
Already did :).
Sorry your laws of defamation of character maybe somewhat different than in Canada.
Our threshold is: Any public comment that would lower that person’s reputation, standing or image in the minds of “right minded” persons.
– Good job for you there’s very few of those on this board ;).