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Fedor: Where have you gone?
By Adam Morgan | June 3, 2007
By Adam Morgan
Some of you may be familiar with me, some of you may not. For those who aren’t, I am Adam Morgan, proprietor of Sprawl ‘n Brawl, a wee little blog that doesn’t draw half the readership of a site such as Fight Opinion.
But this matters no longer, as Zach Arnold has invited me to write for this fine establishment of a website and I have gracefully accepted. I will be pulling double duty here and at Sprawl ‘n Brawl and I thank Zach for the opportunity. Now, on with the MMA rantings.
Where is Fedor Emelianenko? Has anyone heard from the “baddest man on the planet” since he snapped, crackled, and popped Matt Lindland’s elbow back in April? I really miss seeing him smash guys like in the above video. For someone who is seen as the most coveted fighter in all of mixed martial arts, there certainly hasn’t been any indication as to where Fedor might end up.
Read on…
At this point, I see two viable options: UFC or Bodog. It’s as simple as that. Calvin Ayre has the money to throw around and Dana White will stop at nothing to bring the best mixed martial artists in the world to the Octagon. At this point it doesn’t look like PRIDE is going to be much of an option anymore. Let’s take a look at the pros and cons of this situation.
Money:
Obviously this is the driving force in most athletes’ careers. Do I blame them for that? No, you have to get yours while the gettin’ is good. And the gettin’ is probably pretty good for Fedor at Bodog. While the UFC has the money to pay the top fighters in the world, Bodog probably has more disposable income to throw at Fedor mainly because they don’t have nearly as many top fighters on their payroll as the UFC does.
Competition:
Fedor is in the prime of his career and if he wants to truly be known as the best pound for pound fighter in the world, the competition is far and away better in the UFC. The only match that is even intriguing for Fedor in Bodog is possibly a fight against his brother, Aleks. In UFC there are all kinds of intriguing matchups for Fedor, including a rematch with Mirko Cro Cop. If Fedor wants to challenge himself, he’ll come to the UFC.
Recognition:
Bodog has already held one pay per view in Russia, where Fedor is a god among men. If he comes to the UFC, how many people will know him? He doesn’t speak much, if any, English and casual American fans would likely boo him. While I don’t think it would take long to sway American fans in the right direction, Fedor would certainly need no buildup fighting in Bodog. In America he would need buildup and may not be received as warmly as hardcore fans think he deserves. Just look as the case of Anderson Silva. Great champion, great striking, great jiu jitsu, but he doesn’t know a lick of English. So what does the crowd do? Boo him. Sad, but true.
Legacy:
This kind of goes along with the competition category, but to cement his legacy as the best fighter to ever step into a ring or an Octagon, Fedor has no other option but to come to the UFC. In Bodog he will likely be fighting cans. In UFC, he will be facing top competition and, in my opinion, destroying that competition, thereby cementing his legacy as the best fighter MMA has ever known.
I certainly would love to hear an update on Fedor if anyone has an update. Where Fedor ends up has to be at the forefront of every promotion’s agenda right now. Like I said, Bodog and UFC look like the only two viable options at this point but anything can happen.
So, Fedor, if you’re out there reading this, and I highly doubt that you are, please give some thought to us fans who would love to see you eat the UFC heavyweight division like it was sweet candy goodness.
Topics: Adam Morgan, All Topics, Media, MMA, PRIDE, UFC | 51 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |
If Fedor decides to go with Bodog, K-1, IFL, Strikeforce or a combination of those, then he’ll be fine in terms of potential opponents for well into the future. Mark Hunt is essentially done with the UFC or PRIDE because he’ll never be under 265. There’s Mighty Mo, Josh Barnett (also a free agent and unlikely to be in the UFC), Ben Rothwell, Brock Lesnar, numerous kickboxers (Carter Williams being a great example), Frans Botha, Bob Sapp, and so on. From the perspective of history, if the UFC doesn’t see a dominant champion emerge from the ranks of Gonzaga, Vera, and O’Brien, what reason is there for him to run over and fight them?
Ultimately, Fedor is in the driver’s seat, and if he chooses to stay as a “free agent” permanently as he’s considered doing for some time, it will probably work out best for his bank account. Demanding he go into any organization is at this point nonsensical until some clarity can be made of the possible contenders. Let him defend his virtual “linear” title against whomever feels can match him for awhile. Hopefully we’ll see him again soon.
I agree with you, but with UFC quickly becoming the only MMA organization of note, Fedor’s legacy is nothing to American MMA fans if he doesn’t fight in the UFC. I know American MMA fans don’t account for the MMA world as a whole, but it would make a statement in Fedor’s career if he fought in the UFC where all the perceived competition is.
Thanks for commenting!
Fedor’s only allegiance at this point is to money. Its pretty clear that’s true, given that before PRIDE went under, he was already gearing up to fight with Bodog. You can’t blame the dude. He has to make his money, and whomever provides that to him will be where he goes. He’s only got so many years left in him, and he doesn’t seem to want to fight more than 3 times a year or so.
In the long term, looking back 20 years from now, its impossible to see what the UFC will be seen as historically, however it won’t take a lot to guess that people will see Fedor as being the most dominant fighter of his time period, and possibly in the history of the sport. He won’t be able to do any talking tours in the US, but I don’t think that he would be able to would he win the UFC title and made several defenses of it before losing/retiring either.
I feel the need to disagree with using Anderson Silva as an argument that Fedor will get booed. Anderson had only had two UFC fights before his fight with Lutter, and he was cheered plenty before and after that fight. He was booed in Ohio, but thats cause he was the guy who beat the hell out of the hometown boy.
Adam – congrats on the gig!
I have doubts that people will say that Fedor as one of the greatest of all time in 20 years. I am not trying to start a Sherdog-like flamewar but Fedor’s hype is a result of only having fought two Top 10 HWs in his entire career: Cro Cop and Big Nog. And both are about the same size as him (ie, very small HWs).
We’ll have a better idea of where he really stands when/if he starts fighting better (and larger) competition. If Mark Hunt had learned how to finish a simple armlock, we probably wouldn’t even be talking about this right now.
I can’t see a man like Fedor being content with himself fighting people in Bodog. It’s like having Wayne Gretzky in some sort of varsity hockey league. The Lindland fight was a one off and perhaps Bodog could arrange another fight like that but wouldn’t it look a little lame to always have to be bringing in guys to fight Fedor? I’ve actually found Bodog to be improving this season so far as production and entertainment go – sorry Costa Rica beats Russia any day in my book – but that doesn’t mean the fighters are necessarily improving. I’m rooting for Bodog simply because competition is always a good thing, but as a fight fan and a Fedor fan it would be a terrible waste to see him fighting can after can.
Slightly off topic – I think it’s really long overdue for UFC to either up the 265lb limit or implement a super heavy division.
I feel the need to disagree with using Anderson Silva as an argument that Fedor will get booed. Anderson had only had two UFC fights before his fight with Lutter, and he was cheered plenty before and after that fight. He was booed in Ohio, but thats cause he was the guy who beat the hell out of the hometown boy.
Fedor wouldn’t necessarily be booed, but like Anderson Silva, no one would really be driven to see him fight unless it was against a well built American fighter. There’s no giant base of Russians in this country who are going to pay to see him like there are for hispanic and Japanese ethnic sports superstars like an Ichiro.
I have doubts that people will say that Fedor as one of the greatest of all time in 20 years. I am not trying to start a Sherdog-like flamewar but Fedor’s hype is a result of only having fought two Top 10 HWs in his entire career: Cro Cop and Big Nog. And both are about the same size as him (ie, very small HWs).
If you’re talking about guys who are currently top ten fighters right this second, then yes, you’re correct. If you’re saying that he never fought solid competition, I’m sorry, I disagree vehemently. While there are the occasional Ogawas and Zulus, there’s a solid mix of contenders in his past history too (Fujita, Babalu, Kohsaka, Arona, Coleman, Herring), many of whom were top 20 talent at the least when he fought them. He beat the two best heavyweights of the 2000-2005 stretch decisively. His place in history is set. No one is going to go back and look at the time period around UFC 27-32 and say that they were the biggest show in the world or about the classic matches from that period because no one has ever seen them.
Slightly off topic – I think it’s really long overdue for UFC to either up the 265lb limit or implement a super heavy division.
The weight limit is imposed by the athletic commissions, not the UFC, so there’s nothing they can do with it. Really, above 265, who is there? Antonio Silva and Hong Choi-Man can’t be licensed in this country now until they have cranial surgery. Zulu? Butterbean? Ron Waterman? Mark Hunt and Mighty Mo are the only guys out there that might legitimately be worth a damn.
D. Capitated, I suppose you’re right, there aren’t too many guys in that upper weight class. Perhaps instituting a super heavy divison would bring out more fighters? Didn’t the UFC not even have a 155lb class for a while? Now it seems like there’s 155ers coming out of the woodwork.
D. Capitated, I suppose you’re right, there aren’t too many guys in that upper weight class. Perhaps instituting a super heavy divison would bring out more fighters? Didn’t the UFC not even have a 155lb class for a while? Now it seems like there’s 155ers coming out of the woodwork.
The 155lb fighters were always there, its just that they’re putting lots of them on TV to fill all the programming they have now with UFC and WEC. The more programming to fill, the more weight classes they’ll need.
There aren’t tons of superheavyweights out there to get, though. The ones out there right now in the few shows really supporting them are *it*, and putting more fights of them in the UFC won’t assist anything. Pro boxing promoters have a tough time finding Americans to fight as heavyweights for millions of dollars, what makes anyone think there’s legions of guys out there who will fight for 4 and 4 in MMA?
D. Capitated:
“(Fujita, Babalu, Kohsaka, Arona, Coleman, Herring)”
If that’s the best list you can come up with, I have to disagree vehemently as well. Fujita, TK and Herring were solid, but were and will never be considered elite. Babalu and Arona are LHWs. He fought Coleman on the tail end of a long career. The only guy who might have been a Top 10 HW at the time he fought Fedor was Herring. And I think time has proven that Herring was never very good to begin with.
“He beat the two best heavyweights of the 2000-2005 stretch decisively. His place in history is set.”
People might have said the same about Sakuraba’s stretch in 1997-2000. Yet his place in history doesn’t seem quite as firmly entrenched as it used to. Time will tell if Fedor ventures over to the UFC side; if he does,I’ll always root for him, but I have my doubts that his legendary status won’t be diminished.
UFC COULD get Fedor, easily. But they’re cheap bastards.
They make tens of millions of dollars off EACH PPV event, and pay fighters $3k – $30k on average.
Josh Burkman was in the semi-main event at the last event. They had video packages, interviews, and all sorts of hype bringing him in as a top contender. His pay? SEVEN THOUSAND FUCKING DOLLARS.
That’s repulsive.
If that’s the best list you can come up with, I have to disagree vehemently as well. Fujita, TK and Herring were solid, but were and will never be considered elite. Babalu and Arona are LHWs. He fought Coleman on the tail end of a long career. The only guy who might have been a Top 10 HW at the time he fought Fedor was Herring. And I think time has proven that Herring was never very good to begin with.
There isn’t a seriously dominant heavyweight champion who doesn’t have ex-205ers on his ledger. That Fedor beat two of the best is pretty fantastic. Herring was most assuredly a top 10 fighter at that time period, and while TK, Fujita, and so forth weren’t necessarily top 5 or 10 guys, they’re no worse historically than legions of dudes in the UFC (Telligman, Rizzo, etc).
(it should be noted that Babalu was a heavyweight for much of his early career in the UFC, RINGS, and WFA)
People might have said the same about Sakuraba’s stretch in 1997-2000. Yet his place in history doesn’t seem quite as firmly entrenched as it used to. Time will tell if Fedor ventures over to the UFC side; if he does,I’ll always root for him, but I have my doubts that his legendary status won’t be diminished.
If Fedor rolls on the next 5 years and ends up losing about 10 more bouts in increasingly horrible fashion, then yeah, his career will be viewed differently. As is, he’s unquestionably the #1 heavyweight in the world at this moment and until anyone beats him.
“As is, he’s unquestionably the #1 heavyweight in the world at this moment and until anyone beats him.”
No argument here. I do think he is #1 right now given the information we have and the fights by which we have to compare him against other top HWs.
I don’t, however, think he’s unbeatable. I also don’t think he’ll go down in history as an Ali of MMA, since I do believe that if he fights better competition, he will be beat eventually and quite convincingly at that. Again, if Mark Hunt had known how to finish an elementary armlock, we wouldn’t even be having this conversation.
Re: Sobral: just because he fought at HW doesn’t mean that’s his optimal weight class. Looking at him next to Liddell makes you think he has a frame to cut to 185.
Grape,
Completely off topic, I would LOVE to see Sobral at 185. I think he would fare well at that weight class.
No argument here. I do think he is #1 right now given the information we have and the fights by which we have to compare him against other top HWs.
I don’t, however, think he’s unbeatable. I also don’t think he’ll go down in history as an Ali of MMA, since I do believe that if he fights better competition, he will be beat eventually and quite convincingly at that. Again, if Mark Hunt had known how to finish an elementary armlock, we wouldn’t even be having this conversation.
Well, I don’t think he’s unbeatable either, but if anyone is linear champ, its him. He’s clearly the best in the division, and until someone beats him, there is no question as to such. As to “Hunt could have beaten him if he had an armlock” that’s fucking horseshit, I’m sorry. If Randleman knew what to do after slamming him on his head, he would have won. If Cro-Cop just landed a couple more times, he would have won. If Fujita knew how to follow up that massive punch he landed, he would have won. Lots of guys had a chance to win and didn’t. Fedor won. I mean, c’mon, are we gonna throw out Tim Sylvia’s losses because he was “hurt in training” or “didn’t come in prepared”? Should the first Rizzo/Couture fight really count as a loss because Rizzo beat the pulp out of Randy in round 2?
Re: Sobral: just because he fought at HW doesn’t mean that’s his optimal weight class. Looking at him next to Liddell makes you think he has a frame to cut to 185.
Maybe he can make it to 185, but he’s pretty trim as is. He’s done very well for himself at 205 and even above, including that IFC tournament win. Again, where are you going to find guys with dominant records who didn’t fight people who were well above their best weight?
Watching Fedor is a thing of beauty.
D.Capitated, no one is trying to take anything away from Fedor’s wins, so there’s no reason to get your panties all in a bunch.
I’m just giving my opinion, based on things I’ve seen in his fights. And just because he has only 1 loss doesn’t mean he doesn’t have any identifiable weaknesses.
D.Capitated, no one is trying to take anything away from Fedor’s wins, so there’s no reason to get your panties all in a bunch.
I’m just giving my opinion, based on things I’ve seen in his fights. And just because he has only 1 loss doesn’t mean he doesn’t have any identifiable weaknesses.
Every fighter in the world has identifiable weaknesses. I don’t see what that has to do with Fedor’s historical standing changing.
“Every fighter in the world has identifiable weaknesses. I don’t see what that has to do with Fedor’s historical standing changing.”
Because I am extrapolating — all in my opinion, of course — that his obvious weakness will lead to definitive losses if he actually fights better competition.
I’m not entirely sure why you’re being so provincial about this since I think the only major thing we disagree on is his level of previous competition.
I believe UFC has an over 265 division (this was stated in an earlier ufc 30?)but has never bothered to stock it.
It’s an inactive division
It’s not UFC, it’s the state athletic commissions. Officially, they can have a 266+ division, but they choose not to since their 266+ guys can cut down to 265 and there’s not that much depth at HW that splitting it is a good idea.
Greg Savage said on Friday’s “The Savage Dog Show” that there was no chance in hell that Fedor would come to the UFC. This is what his sources have told him. They also told him that Bodog is offering not only $3 million a fight, but also a 3 million dollar signing bonus.
[quote]Because I am extrapolating — all in my opinion, of course — that his obvious weakness will lead to definitive losses if he actually fights better competition.
I’m not entirely sure why you’re being so provincial about this since I think the only major thing we disagree on is his level of previous competition.[/quote]
Obvious weaknesses or not, the problem with stating that he “needs to fight better competition” is that he’s fought the best available competition essentially since winning the title from Noguiera. I don’t know what you can say about it. It would be a bit like criticizing Matt Hughes’ reign as champion because he never fought Gomi.
Sigh.
D.Capitated, I am not criticizing Fedor. He cleaned out the PRIDE HW division. He is the #1 HW in the world right now and I am a big fan.
Nowhere did I say he “needs to fight better competition”. He can do whatever he wants. Enough with the simple-minded nuthugging retorts.
All I am saying is that, in my opinion, there are still many top HWs he has not yet fought and I think that if he fights them he will lose to one or more of them definitively. IMO, if he fights other top HWs besides CC and Nog, in 5 years, he will not be known as the unbeatable machine he is today.
All I am saying is that, in my opinion, there are still many top HWs he has not yet fought and I think that if he fights them he will lose to one or more of them definitively. IMO, if he fights other top HWs besides CC and Nog, in 5 years, he will not be known as the unbeatable machine he is today.
Well, everyone loses if they fight long enough, so I fail to see what the point is here, or why he going to the UFC would guarantee stiffer competition when there’s clearly more than enough difficulty outside of that organization. If he were to fight Josh Barnett in 3 months, would anyone really complain? Ultimately, its the promoter’s choice whether or not they want to pay Fedor his money, because as I’ve stated earlier and very much believe, history will show Fedor as the dominant heavyweight of his time period and among the most dominant in the history of the sport. One could just as easily ask that question of any future UFC champion (whether dominant or not): If there’s more money somewhere else to fight the best fighter in the world, and you choose not to take it, aren’t they ducking him?
Money is actually not the biggest issue for Fedor right now. It is whether his contract is exclusive, and if he can fight in Russia. Those are the 2 big issues. The UFC can pay him what Bodog wants to.
D.Capitated, what in the heck are you talking about? Are you even reading my posts?
D.Capitated, what in the heck are you talking about? Are you even reading my posts?
I barely understand what point you’re trying to make. Fedor’s career will be looked at as being less impressive over time versus that of guys with worse ledgers than him? He needs to fight guys who are beneath him rather than those guys needing to fight him for historical value? Fighting for money is meaningless unless he fights for money in America?
Here is what I am saying:
I am a big fan of Fedor, but I don’t think he is as good as you do and *IF* he fights more elite HWs, I believe this will be proven. IMO. If we disagree, that’s cool.
Here is what I am NOT saying:
Money, Bodog, “need to fight in UFC”, etc etc. All this nonsense is in your head. I never said any of this.
Grape Knee High is just a fucking idiotic troll. Nothing more, nothing less.
WHAT exactly would you like him to do to legitimize his standing as clearly the most dominant fighter in mma?? His only “loss” was actually a DQ win from a cut due to an illegal strike – but tournament format dictated that TK needed to go onto the next round. He’s DOMINATINGLY decimated the entire division.
WHO WOULD YOU HAVE HIM FIGHT IN THE GLORIOUS UFC??? Cotoure? Gonzaga? Herring/Cro Cop/Nog/Fujita/Hunt again????
He so dominantly beat everyone I really don’t see the need for a rematch with any of the ex-PRIDE guys. He’d absolutely demolish: Sylvia, Gonzaga, O’Brien, Cotoure and anyone that was part of the UFC’s “HW Division” before they plundered PRIDE.
I’m so god damned sick of UFC loving idiots that try to argue he’ll “never truly be the BEST until he comes to fight in the UFC”. And whether you’ve actually said the words or not, your thinly veiled comments are pretty clear and CLEARLY RETARDED. Outside of Barnett, Antonio Silva and Gonzaga there’s no one who even deserves a shot at him….but I’m sure he’d love to come prove himself against Paul Buentello, Cabbage, Big Perm, Arlovski and maybe Big Bad Brock.
Haha, I am a troll? Gaijin, I am a much, much, much bigger fan of PRIDE than UFC. I’m finally starting to realize why everyone hates PRIDE nuthuggers. I’m not even being very inflammatory; just saying some *opinions* that are clearly stated as such. Why do you people get so emotionally involved with these fighters that you can’t even rationally discuss your opinions?
Besides, Gaijin, if you could actually read past a 3rd grade level, you’d realize I’m not saying or implying even 10% of the stuff you think I’m saying.
Well please then Mr. Riddle Wrapped in an Enigma…what are you saying?!? B/C apparently no one on this board can “realize what it is that you’re saying”….I’m not hugging anyone’s nuts but merely pointing out you’re trying to go on some insipid rant about Fedor “not being the Ali of mma” b/c…..and then really you go on a million tangents. The most apparent of which (whether you’ll admit what your veiled comments actually are or not) is that he NEEDS to fight “better competition” (in the UFC) and when he does (in the UFC, not boDOG not EXC not K-1, in the UFC) he’ll definitively lose b/c he’s “got weaknesses”…like…beating everyone so convincingly he makes himself “worse” b/c he makes his competition look THAT BAD.
I guess I’ll go burn my law school degree b/c I can’t read past a 3rd grade level, but somehow I slipped through the cracks.
Here’s a recap of your “contributions”
1. Fedor’s not “that good” b/c he’s only faced 2 top 10 HW’s the “undersized” Nog and Cro Cop and if Mark Hunt had an elephant gun, sorry, “any submission ability” Fedor would be seen as the overhyped fighter he is. [B/c we all know that if someone attempts 1 sub and comes nowhere near getting it, the other fighter must be susceptible to submissions]
2.
a. Even though he beat guys that AT THE TIME were considered top competition and destroyed them…they were really just overrated b/c he destroyed them. He pretty much single handedly marked the decline of Herring’s relevance as a top HW.
b. Comparing the fact that Sakuraba was insanely popular and an icon in Japan b/c he beat the Gracies (all of whom he had decided size advantage over), Shannon Ritch, Vernon White etc etc….to beating Big Nog and Cro Cop two of the top HW’s at the time and Nog being one of the best and most consistent HW’s for the last 7-8 years – really intelligent post there.
c. If he ventures over to the UFC, [random hollow compliment – “i’ll cheer for him”] his legendary status (in your mind) will likely be diminished. Since you’re paralleling his career to Saku’s, you’re implying he’ll get increasingly, brutally destroyed and resemble a shell of his former self.
3 + 4. He’s got “obvious weaknesses” that you’re extrapolating with your opinion (that doesn’t even make ANY sense – figure out what the two things mean – you’re forming an opinion with your opinions – there’s no “extrapolation” which would require logic or some mathematical formula) upon “obvious weaknesses” that you’ve yet to identify, that *if he comes to the UFC* he’ll suffer definitive losses.
5. He needs to fight more elite HWs and when he does, he’ll be exposed as overhyped with these definitive losses to elite HW’s based on his obvious weaknesses (all of this referring to point 2 – *if he ventures to the UFC*).
Yeah I guess my reading comprehension must suck – in extrapolation of your opinion – b/c I can read all of the idiotic statements you’ve made and you haven’t even realized that you don’t have a fucking clue what you’re saying while talking out your ass and you’ve got nothing to respond with other than “you can’t read what I’m saying! You are a grade 3!!”
Here Gaijin, AGAIN (as I summarized for D. Capitated):
“I am a big fan of Fedor, but I don’t think he is as good as you do and *IF* he fights more elite HWs, I believe this will be proven. IMO. If we disagree, that’s cool.”
Is this not simple enough for your law degree?
Gaijin, do you act like this childish at work if someone disagrees with you? I can’t imagine your career will get very far if you act like this much of a baby every time this happens.
No b/c you’re just trying to back track after making all of your moronic comments. Go back and read all your comments – or you can read my nice summary of them. You’ve got nothing to back up your statements other than your extremely authoritative and valued “extrapolated opinions”.
I’ve yet to see you name ONE “elite HW” that he should fight who’d actually have a chance of beating him or one of his obvious weaknesses that will lead to definitive losses.
Your opinion is shit, you talked a whole whack of shit and now you’re trying to distill it down to “I’m a big Fedor fan…he’s not that good…I will be proven.” and I’m sorry but that was not your point and now that you’ve been able to back it up with NOTHING you’re trying to back track out of it by insulting people’s “reading ability”. Thanks but we can read just fine and we can see you’re a f&ckin’ toolbox.
No but I do take offense to ignorant trolls…one of which is you.
What you don’t like that you “insulted” my reading ability…then I so nicely went back and pointed out all of your stupid and uninformed posts??
The guy’s fought who was the best at each stage in the mma game and he’s got ZERO losses. He’s wiped out an entire division – and now the UFC HW division consists of the division he wiped out, but he needs to come over to get “exposed” by the “elite HW’s” that comprise the UFC? The same elite HW’s that left PRIDE b/c other than PRIDE dying, they couldn’t get past him?
Please, please, please show me what I’ve apparently missed (along with his “obvious weaknesses” and the “elite HW’s” who his resume is lacking)!!
By childish do you mean “doesn’t agree with you and points out the ridiculousness of your rash of trolling statements”?
I am a big fan of Fedor, but I don’t think he is as good as you do and *IF* he fights more elite HWs, I believe this will be proven. IMO. If we disagree, that’s cool.
Here is what I am NOT saying:
Money, Bodog, “need to fight in UFC”, etc etc. All this nonsense is in your head. I never said any of this.
What you have said, albiet in separate posts:
We’ll have a better idea of where he really stands when/if he starts fighting better (and larger) competition.
Time will tell if Fedor ventures over to the UFC side; if he does,I’ll always root for him, but I have my doubts that his legendary status won’t be diminished.
He fought the best fighters in the world. Demanding that he beat everyone again 3-5 years from now to “prove” his historical place is unreasonable, as he’ll be entering his mid 30s and exiting his physical prime. His historical place is set. Its up for the young guns to dethrone him. I don’t see anyone demoting Fedor from a sort of legendary status for many, many, many years: perhaps 50 or more.
Gaijin,
1. I never said Fedor NEEDS to do anything. Please use your law degree and tell me where I ever said that. PLEASE.
2. Definition of extrapolate: “To infer or estimate by extending or projecting known information.” Are you so dense that you didn’t know what I was getting at?
3. Are you really that dense that you can’t comprehend that people will see his career in a different light if he loses to, say, Barnett, Couture and Gonzaga, than if he beats them?
4. Sakuraba was consider THE MAN at MW/LHW in 2000, the same way Fedor is considered now. Are you so dense that you can’t even see even the slightest possibility that people might view Fedor differently in a few years? You’re seeing implication that I DID NOT MAKE.
5. So Sakuraba just beat some random Gracies who sucked (even though his accomplishments at the time were considered to be unparalleled), yet Herring is awesome because everyone thought he was good at the time? Even though it’s now obvious Herring always sucked? Are you legal arguments always this weak?
3. Are you really that dense that you can’t comprehend that people will see his career in a different light if he loses to, say, Barnett, Couture and Gonzaga, than if he beats them?
Gonzaga just appeared in people’s field of vision as legitimate top contender, and he may be one fight away from disappearing as such. Couture was a washed up light heavyweight not long ago. Barnett’s still very much a serious option for Fedor, and would have been before had he not lost critical bouts in his career or decided to play fight for Inoki. Its less Fedor’s fault that he hasn’t fought those guys than it is that Tyson never fought Greg Page or Tim Witherspoon, to give you some idea.
5. So Sakuraba just beat some random Gracies who sucked (even though his accomplishments at the time were considered to be unparalleled), yet Herring is awesome because everyone thought he was good at the time? Even though it’s now obvious Herring always sucked? Are you legal arguments always this weak?
Herring got where he did legitimately against fighters who were feared for a number of reasons. To pretend now that they don’t matter because he’s lost a number of fights since his glory days back 5 years ago is facetious. I find it really telling that you choose Herring to supplement your argument rather than Cro-Cop or Noguiera, who are really more vital to the overall discussion of what wins were most important in Fedor’s career.
D.Capitated, please stop putting words into my mouth. At no point have I ever blamed Fedor for anything or implied he was dodging fighters. And why should I keep mentioning CC and Big Nog? I’ve already agreed they are elite HWs Fedor has beaten.
Guys, here’s something to consider (and I promise this will be my last post on this topic since this is clearly going nowhere and out of respect for Zach and everyone else here I’ll stop littering this thread):
I do not know if you guys remember or not, but until Big Nog lost to Fedor in 2003, he was considered unbeatable. It was unfathomable that anyone could come along and beat him. Unfathomable. He was the best HW of all time. Yet here we are a mere 4 years later. Will Big Nog go down in history as the best HW ever? No, because Fedor wrested that title from him pretty convincingly. In my opinion, something similar could happen to Fedor as well.
Is there a Fedor-like challenger here for him right now? Not that I see. But I think he does not match up exceptionally well against Barnett in particular, and possibly fighters like Couture, Gonzaga, Monson, maybe even Arlovski (a stretch I know, but I’d love to see that fight). If he loses to even two of these guys, I don’t think he’ll be viewed in the same light as being undefeated (yes, like many, I do not consider his first fight against TK to be loss.)
There will always be someone better then you. But if we have already seen the last of Fedor, then I am happy to have seen him fight on tv and live in Vegas. Not only is he a world class fighter in the ring, he is a world class fighter outside of the ring and demonstrates not only what MMA could be, but he also shows the respect that is taught and passed down from one martial artist to another. Fedor transcends the sport. In the amazing world of Japan and their Pride fighting, Fedor rose above what seemed to be the highest level set for all fighers in the world. We do not know if that was (is) the highest bar ever set — but many of us agree Fedor is awesome and a must see, no matter who he takes on. It is ok to disagree with this, but any who do disagree will get raked over the coals again and again. Its like this — Fedor-Ali-Jordon. . . you see what I’m sayin?
i just want to see Fedor fight – soon
Little did I know that my first column on Fight Opinion would turn into such a heated debate. I am with cship, I just want to see Fedor fight again. And as I said in my column, I would like to see him fight in the UFC. As I said, with UFC quick becoming the only MMA organization of note, I believe this is where your MMA legends of the future will come from. I am not a UFC nuthugger, I just enjoy MMA as a whole. However, I feel that over the course of the next few years your best competition will be there, like it or not, and fighting the BEST fighters is where Fedor belongs.