« K-1 Unveils Reality TV Show | Home | UFC 67: All or Nothing Recap »
UFC 67 all-purpose post
By Zach Arnold | February 3, 2007
Anything and everything reader-wise goes here. Problems ordering UFC 67 in HD? Any and/or all complaints or compliments go here. If you want to do running PBP of the event, knock yourselves out.
Event reports: F4W | Observer | Sherdog | UFC Junkie
Topics: All Topics, Media, MMA, UFC, Zach Arnold | 34 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |
Sherdog.com has an ongoing play by play for those interested. Prelims have started.
The pizza is on the way. The obsene yelling and screaming can be left in Vegas. LETS GET IT ON.
new graphics! new screen graphics! about time! what was it, three years with the same theme? WWE changes them every year.
A lot of people seem to be having problems with the HD broadcast, especially with Cox cable.
Wow this Cote fight was lame. Cote played an extremely conservative game but I suppose I can’t blame him considering how badly he needed a win in the UFC. I hope his next outing isn’t this conservative.
Rampage is going to win popularity points for saying “Black on black crime.” lol.
It would be hard to keep Rampage from not winning popularity points. I’m glad he got over the jitters from all the hype the Zuffa machine created for him and sealed the deal tonight. One or two more quality fights in the UFC and I think he will easily be ready to challenge Lidell.
I think that should read, “It would be hard to keep Rampage from winning popularity points.” 🙂 He’s a funny guy.
I really thought Yves (the ref) made a horrible call. But that last replay showed it his the shoulder. I am kind of happy, because it makes it a legit finish by Roger Huerta.
Hahahaha Cro Cop is coming out to the PRIDE theme music! That is awesome!
HOLY FUCK. People on the chat are spazzing out over the PRIDE music. I mean…..FLOOD.
This will only spawn 10,000 more rumors about the UFC purchasing Pride.
Man that was a weak finish for CroCop. Still nice to see him win though.
Despite the fact that Silva was on the bottom for a good portion of the first round. I had him winning the round. He controlled more of the pace on the ground and threw many more strikes.
holy crap, someone sedate Silva.
Sylvia is not wearing his belt tonight? Guess the polish place was late getting it back to him.
Horrible reffing for the Griffin fight. Edgar has held the fence on at least 10 occasions, and no point deducted so far. He has honestly changed the course of the fight way too often. Horrible. Just horrible.
Mirko vs an undefeated guy who has already has a win in the UFC gives us an idea of how terrible the hw division is in this sport. Sanchez looked like he had never even stepped foot inside a boxing or Muay Thai gym, and somehow he is 8-0. People who think pro boxers wouldn’t stand a chance in mma need to have their heads examined. If a guy like that can be 8-0 and on the number two fight in a UFC event, any of the top 50 boxers in the world could too, just give them a year of grappling training. I hope the UFC brings in Jeremy Williams (hw boxer 47-5 record) because other than Mirko, Vera, and Couture, nobody in their hw division can even throw a jab.
I don’t know when Fedor and Nog become free agents, but the UFC should be on them like flies on shit. Seeing how over Mirko was is an indication that foreign fighters can get over in America.
“Mirko vs an undefeated guy who has already has a win in the UFC gives us an idea of how terrible the hw division is in this sport.”
what does that mean? I don’t get it.
“Sanchez looked like he had never even stepped foot inside a boxing or Muay Thai gym, and somehow he is 8-0”
he only had one prior fight in the UFC. That was on the undercard. He wasn’t anywhere near a top spot in the UFC. So what is the point?
“People who think pro boxers wouldn’t stand a chance in mma need to have their heads examined. ”
I think the observation that a pro boxer would get humiliated is well founded hisorically. Boxing may be the last skill you need in MMA. The strikers who do well have good BJJ or wrestling techniques.
“Seeing how over Mirko was is an indication that foreign fighters can get over in America.”
Since when have foreign fighters not gotten over with the UFC fans? Gracie, Arlovski, GSP, Ruas, Taktarov, Belfort, etc.
David, have you ever seen Mirko fight before?
When Mirko beats somebody, he makes them look like a chump. That’s just what it looks like, it doesn’t say very much about the guy he’s fighting.
Mirko made Barnett and Wanderlei look just as bad last September — on the same day.
And really, if anything, the boxing HW division is what it pathetic. It’s most exciting prospect is an inexperienced and unskilled 7′ freakshow with a suspect chin.
“It’s most exciting prospect is an inexperienced and unskilled 7′ freakshow with a suspect chin. ”
Valuev is not a prospect, and his chin really isn’t suspect. Watch some of his early fights where he takes atomic dingers off his face and just stands and stumbles a bit. Pre-Barrett fight, the guy was known by fans who saw him as having a monster. Barrett catches him off balance, now people think he’s got some shit chin. People need to check themselves.
As for exciting prospects, ain’t a damn thing wrong with Povetkin, or even Boytsov. Definitely worth watching.
Also, who gives two fucks if Eddie Sanchez was 8-0? Records mean next to nothing. Sanchez could be 8-0 in pro boxing if he fought boxers of a similar calibre to his MMA opponents. He wasn’t in the fight by virtue of his goodness, he was just willing to be a sacrificial lamb.
We need a quote function in here.
I certainly have seen Mirko fight before and obviously he has a tendency to make people look unskilled, but it is somewhat sad when the best matchup they could find for Mirko to occupy a high slot on a ppv card is a guy who looked about six levels below Mirko. That was a glorified squash match; I didn’t mean it as an insult to Sanchez, but rather the dearth of talent in the hw division (or the UFC’s choice to put on such an uncompetitive match) that Zuffa would expect people to pay 40 dollars to see that.
I would say that while Mirko did make Silva look bad in their fight, at least Silva landed some shots and kept coming forward, while Sanchez simply did loops around the Octagon avoiding contact.
As for the comment about foreign fighters being over in the UFC, I meant a foreign fighter who has never fought in America before getting by far the biggest pop from the audience.
As for pro boxers, when was the last time a high-level pro boxer even competed in mma? I can’t recall… I think you are underestimating just how low the standup level is in mma; Anderson Silva isn’t exactly Roy Jones, and he landed every single punch he threw against Chris Leben and Rich Franklin, both of whom (especially the latter) are very successful mma fighters. My honest opinion is that if a top level kickboxer or boxer (moreso the boxer) trained for a year in grappling, he would be able to compete at a high level in mma.
Use blockquote (HTML coding) to do quotes manually.
Pro boxers or kickboxers who competed in MMA….all of the top of my head at 3 in the morning
Art jimmerson…don’t laugh. he was a legit cruiserweight champion with a verifiable record.
Orlando Weit…world class muay thai
Gerard Gordeau…I followed gordeau before the 1st UFc…he was top level striker before K1
Le Banner
Mo Smith…had lots of training before his UFC fights…did well against one dimensional fighters for a while.
Kit Cope..supposedly…but I didn’t folow his thai boxing career.
This is just off the top of my head.
Others have tryed their hand in training but realized they ouldn’t make it in the grappling department.
You haven’t and won’t see top level or even decent boxers in MMA simply because they don’t have the skills. They are also very different athletes. Crossover isn’t simple and usually difficult. I have been around the boxing world, and most good boxers are like fish out of water in a grappling situation. I am talking about spotting natural ability. they are two different sports entirely that favor two different types of athletes. If the boxer realizes he doesn’t have the skill at grappling, he isn’t going to go further with it.
Also, fighters gameplan. No one is going to box with a top level boxer.
Anderson Silva not exacly Roy Jones? well, he is in better shape. I also think his muay thai is world class by itself. He beat Frankiin with a plum clinch. His punches landed, but I could easily argue that they only landed because it was an MMA match, not a boxing match. His opponent has to worry about clinching, knees elbows, kicks, takedowns, not just hands. Anderson is deadly with most of those. And Leben isn;t my idea of real succesful MMA fighter. I even thought Franklin was a bit overrated.
1 year of grappling isn’t going to make a star out of anyone who isn’t physically inclined to grappling specifically, even with all the rules favoring strikers.
I think it is accurate to say that the level of boxing in the UFc is low. No question. I get embarressed watching some of these guys think they have boxing skills, but they are fighting with a specific opponent in mind. The striking level ,however, varies from excellent to so so.
“My honest opinion is that if a top level kickboxer or boxer (moreso the boxer) trained for a year in grappling, he would be able to compete at a high level in mma. ”
Why do people keep coming up with this shit? Seriously. First of all, it is completely crucial which guy you’re talking about. You think Remy Bonjasky is gonna be stopping any low singles with his 40 feet legs, even if busted his balls to learn how to grapple? Sem Schilt spend YEARS grappling despite always being a top notch striker, and he couldn’t master the nuances of grappling.
Guys who train their ass off on the mats every day, guys who were collegiate All Americans, ADCC standouts and so forth… STILL get taken down in MMA after years of grappling. One year in terms of picking up wrestling and grappling after a life of boxing/kickboxing amounts to fuck all.
Mirko is the BEST test case for a boxer/kickboxer convert to MMA with his body frame, power, speed and athleticism. It took Mirko quite a while before he could brick wall guys with a sprawl, and he’s still not a dynamic grappler. Mirko is unique in that his physical attributes make him potent in the clinch where he can dominate in-fighting, keep his balance, stop takedowns and so forth. That’s where most striking converts get killed. Hunt can pancake dudes now, but Barnett put him on the canvas in a split second in the clinch after he’d dedicated two years of his career to grappling.
Seriously, enough is enough. A year of grappling is a year of grappling. If Floyd Mayweather quit boxing right now, and busted his ass to learn how to wrestle and grapple, in a decade, Sean Sherk would still spinebuster him through the floor.
Unfortunate stoppage in the Mirko fight. Eddie Sanchez should give half his pay to Big John for saving his life. At least let Mirko put him out cold. I thought BJM was going to stand them up and make Eddie take it like a man and go down to the LHK. Sanchez & Lutter did not come to fight which is unfortunate. Goldie comparing Lutter to the Michael Jordan of jiu jitsu is embarassing. Maybe if he meant Michael Jordan when he came back and played on the Wizards. Does Goldie even watch MMA when he isn’t sitting Octagon side reading Toyo Tire ads?
Jordan Breen,
How many world-class boxers have ever fought in mma with even a clue about the ground game. Of course grappling fans love to say how hard it is to stop a shot from a wrestler, but those wrestlers have never been punched in the face by someone who gets millions of dollars a year to punch people in the face. To take someone down, you have to get close enough to be in range to get punched in the face.
Shit, Mark Hunt almost beat Fedor with very little grappling skills; are you going to tell me he is anywhere near as good of a puncher as Sam Peter or Klitschko?? You’re kidding yourself. Tim Sylvia is the UFC hw champion, and other than hitting haaad and having a good sprawl, what are his skills? Do you honestly think that Tim Sylvia is a good enough athlete to sprawl n brawl (on in his case sprawl and bore) but that the Klitschkos arent? Sounds a bit delusional, no?
We as mma fans think of Andre Arlovski as being fast for a hw, but imagine if he were much faster, much more accurate, and hit much harder. I bet that person would have a decent chance at success in mma.
Rollo,
Good answer. I have seen Kit Cope fight Muay Thai, and he isn’t anywhere near the caliber of the Thais who are champions.
I would say for the purposes of mma, being a world-class boxer is much more important than being a world class Muay Thai fighter, because basically all of the world-class Muay Thai guys are little Thais who are too small for mma (in terms of weight classes currently in use). The hw boxing scene is diluted enough anyways, so the talent pool in the hw kickboxing scene is going to be even more diluted. Generally (although there are exceptions–Mirko being one of them) the best strikers will choose boxing over kickboxing because that is where the money is. Mark Hunt–pro boxing record of something like 0-1, yet became a K1 champion.
Anyways, I agree that Silva’s Muay Thai is very good, but it’s not world class in my opinion (I lived in Thailand for a while so I am spoiled by 115 pound Thais who have been kicking the heavy bag since they were 2. However, for mma purposes, you are right, his striking is world class). Regardless, I really wanted to comment on your comment that Leben isn’t a successful mma fighter.
That comment is very telling, because you consider him to not be successful, but he is something like 6-2 in the UFC, and defeated a guy who dropped Tito Ortiz (Cote), defeated Mike Swick, etc etc. What is Leben known for? Being a big puncher and having a great beard. Anderson Silva made Leben not only look like an amateur, but also showed how great Leben’s beard was, by almost knocking him down with a jab. That right there should give us the difference in striking level between a professional striker and a good but not great mma fighter.
Anderson and Mirko both rely on boxing footwork to move in and out and use angles, while seemingly everyone else in mma just walks straight forward.
My point is simply that to think that a top caliber boxer wouldn’t have a chance in mma after a year of grappling training is about as logical as thinking that a world class wrestler wouldn’t have a chance in a grappling competition after a year of jiu jitsu..
Imamu Mayfield was another Boxer who (failed) in MMA, as an add-on note.
“How many world-class boxers have ever fought in mma with even a clue about the ground game.”
None. And none probably will in the conceivable future. You know why? Learning how to grapple to compete at the elite level isn’t easy. Again, Mirko is the best imaginable test case, and it’s taken him five or six years to get to where he is. Again, one or two years of grappling doesn’t cut it.
“Of course grappling fans love to say how hard it is to stop a shot from a wrestler, but those wrestlers have never been punched in the face by someone who gets millions of dollars a year to punch people in the face.”
What difference does that make? It IS hard to stop a shot from a good wrestler. You think O’Neill Bell is going to stonewall Ricardo Arona, just because he can punch hard? Get real.
“Shit, Mark Hunt almost beat Fedor with very little grappling skills;”
If cranking sideways on an improperly applied keylock is almost beating Fedor, sure.
“are you going to tell me he is anywhere near as good of a puncher as Sam Peter or Klitschko?? You’re kidding yourself.”
Mark Hunt didn’t do anything punching-related to Fedor, so, how is that relevant? Moreover, Peter and Wlad are athletic dudes, but again, there’s no guarantees they can pick up grappling. Some guys can, and some guys can’t. Some guys just never can learn.
“Tim Sylvia is the UFC hw champion, and other than hitting haaad and having a good sprawl, what are his skills? Do you honestly think that Tim Sylvia is a good enough athlete to sprawl n brawl (on in his case sprawl and bore) but that the Klitschkos arent? Sounds a bit delusional, no? ”
It’s not about athleticism. MMA isn’t about athleticism. If it was, Kevin Randleman would be our king. Sylvia has a simple and effective game that is based around what he can do, and it includes having stalwart takedown defense. Again, takedown defense is something that not every guy can pick up. Anderson Silva showed that last night. Anderson is a sensational athlete, an outstanding striker, and a BJJ black belt with tons of grappling experience. Yet he still fails to be able to stop some ugly outside takedown attempts. Why? I mean, surely this grappling stuff must be so easy to pick up that any boxer could do it.
Right.
“None. And none probably will in the conceivable future. You know why? Learning how to grapple to compete at the elite level isn’t easy. Again, Mirko is the best imaginable test case, and it’s taken him five or six years to get to where he is. Again, one or two years of grappling doesn’t cut it.”
I think a much more realistic reason is money. If someone can get paid 7 figures, why would they learn something totally new for the chance to make 5 figures? Cabbage is a fairly high level mma fighter, and I’ve never seen him do anything other than throw sloppy punches. It doesn’t take too much intelligence to realize that a guy who moves and punches 10x better than he does could certainly have a good career in mma.
Also, let’s not pretend like Arona, Nog, and Fedor are standard mma fighters. They are not. They are exceptional. Think about guys like Cabbage and Justin Eilers, both of whom were on the brink of a UFC title fight. Eilers’ fighting background is that he played football. Mike Kyle the same thing. Sure, these guys are probably half-decent wrestlers, but let’s not act like every mma fighter is an A+ grappler. Do you honestly believe that Sam Peter or the Klitschkos wouldn’t end Justin Eilers or Cabbage after a year of grappling training? I’m not trying to be condescending, I just have no idea what would make you believe that a lot of the hws in mma could last with a high level boxer. Again, I’m not saying that the boxers would beat all of the mma guys, but they would beat a lot of them. Sean Gannon made it all the way to the UFC just for beating up a street fighter, yet you think the Klitschkos would be overwhelmed in mma..
“What difference does that make? It IS hard to stop a shot from a good wrestler. You think O’Neill Bell is going to stonewall Ricardo Arona, just because he can punch hard? Get real.”
Just as it is hard to stop a shot from a good wrestler, it is hard to get close enough to even attempt a shot on a good boxer who knows how to move and is very fast and accurate with his feet and hands. The difference in striking ability between a top notch boxer and an mma guy is huge.
“Mark Hunt didn’t do anything punching-related to Fedor, so, how is that relevant? Moreover, Peter and Wlad are athletic dudes, but again, there’s no guarantees they can pick up grappling. Some guys can, and some guys can’t. Some guys just never can learn.”
Mark Hunt, with all of a year of grappling, had the best fighter in the world side mounted for a long time. Hunt and his lack of grappling skills did better against Fedor than a Judo Olympic medalist, Nog (x3), and world class wrestlers. As you correctly pointed out, he didn’t do much striking-wise in the fight, yet he still came fairly close to a keylock on the champion. Now imagine if he were much more athletic, hit much harder, and had better speed/balance/conditioning. Don’t you think he would pose a threat to most mma fighters?
“It’s not about athleticism. MMA isn’t about athleticism. If it was, Kevin Randleman would be our king. Sylvia has a simple and effective game that is based around what he can do, and it includes having stalwart takedown defense. Again, takedown defense is something that not every guy can pick up. Anderson Silva showed that last night. Anderson is a sensational athlete, an outstanding striker, and a BJJ black belt with tons of grappling experience. Yet he still fails to be able to stop some ugly outside takedown attempts. Why? I mean, surely this grappling stuff must be so easy to pick up that any boxer could do it.”
MMA isn’t about athleticism??? Tell that to Saint Pierre or Mirko or Crazy Horse or Hughes or Vitor or Rampage or Shogun or Anderson or Kid Yamamoto or any of the other of the great athletes who are in mma. Randleman is not a normal case. He is someone who didn’t adapt his game at all, and thus never reached his potential. Yet despite being a completely 1 dimensional fighter, he still fought and beat some of the best fighters in the world, due to his insane natural athleticism. Now imagine if his great athleticism was useful for finishing opponents, rather than simply holding them on the ground.
As for takedown defense, Heath Herring didn’t stop a single shot against O’Brien, but he knocked him down twice with punches anyways, and if he had been in better condition and were a better puncher, he might have stopped O’Brien. Takedown defense is good, but if you are fast enough to avoid takedowns and accurate enough to land shots, you have a good chance at winning. Again I am using this only as an example, and am not saying that all boxers could be champions, but rather that high level boxers could certainly compete in mma, and given some basic ground training, could do much better than you think.
We haven’t seen any high level boxers in mma because there is no financial incentive for the boxers to come over, not because they are incapable of learning how to sprawl. Sam Peter with those tiny gloves could knock out Arlovski with a jab, and even if someone were to take him down and try to ground and pound him, his punches from the bottom would probably still do more damage than someone punching down on him from the guard.
“Cabbage is a fairly high level mma fighter”
Fairly high level? No. Fairly high profile, maybe. Guys who get beat by Bart Gunn and Kazuhiro Hamanaka aren’t high level MMA fighters.
“Do you honestly believe that Sam Peter or the Klitschkos wouldn’t end Justin Eilers or Cabbage after a year of grappling training? I’m not trying to be condescending, I just have no idea what would make you believe that a lot of the hws in mma could last with a high level boxer.”
A lot of them of the heavyweights in MMA wouldn’t last with one, no. But still, Eilers and Kyle have much more than a year or grappling experience themselves. Despite being garden variety brawlers when they fight, they still have much more grappling ability than we get to see. After a year of training, there is no telling how wonderfully, or miserably Sam Peter or the Klitschkos would’ve learned to grapple.
“The difference in striking ability between a top notch boxer and an mma guy is huge. ”
No, it isn’t. The difference in punching ability is. Monumental difference.
“Mark Hunt, with all of a year of grappling, had the best fighter in the world side mounted for a long time. Hunt and his lack of grappling skills did better against Fedor than a Judo Olympic medalist, Nog (x3), and world class wrestlers.”
Yeah, MMA is a funny thing like that. All the more curious why you speak in absolutes about the inevitable success about pro boxers against MMA fighters, despite the fact that analogously, less talented grapplers can have better showcases of grappling against similar opponents. MMA is a wacky, wacky sport.
However, less facetiously, Hunt really didn’t do much but land in sidemount, and then improperly torque a keylock. Two years of grappling experience for that still doesn’t say much, even if it’s against Fedor.
“Now imagine if he were much more athletic, hit much harder, and had better speed/balance/conditioning. Don’t you think he would pose a threat to most mma fighters? ”
This assumes that any pro boxer could make as much progress in two years of grappling as Hunt has, which again, just isn’t true. Some guys can do it, some guys can’t.
“MMA isn’t about athleticism??? Tell that to Saint Pierre or Mirko or Crazy Horse or Hughes or Vitor or Rampage or Shogun or Anderson or Kid Yamamoto or any of the other of the great athletes who are in mma. ”
So you’re saying that MMA isn’t about athleticism, because some successful (or whatever Krazy Horse is) fighters are athletes? Nice argument.
It’s a sport, so being athletic is understandably a huge asset. My point was that being athletic doesn’t assure MMA success, because it’s no indicator for how well someone can learn to strike or grapple and apply them in MMA fights. Some guys are athletic, some are not. Some guys can learn to strike and grapple, some cannot. There is not a scientific crossover between any of them.
“As for takedown defense, Heath Herring didn’t stop a single shot against O’Brien, but he knocked him down twice with punches anyways, and if he had been in better condition and were a better puncher, he might have stopped O’Brien.”
And if Herring was a pro boxer with one year of grappling, the kind you propose will be so successful, as opposed to the decade plus of grappling he has, he probably would’ve gotten choked out or pounded out from back mount in the first two minutes, having no idea how to deal with a 230+ pound D1 wrestler on his back.
“Takedown defense is good, but if you are fast enough to avoid takedowns and accurate enough to land shots, you have a good chance at winning.”
Again… Art Jimmerson was a fast and accurate boxer, so it must take a little more than that.
“high level boxers could certainly compete in mma, and given some basic ground training, could do much better than you think.”
Well, what is it that I think?
I’m not saying that any random guy out of a Miletich affiliate would bodyslam Sam Peter and teabag him in the cage. However, your original post said “compete at a high level”, and thus, I talk about their relation to the Top 10, 15, 20 guys.
“Basic ground training”, again, doesn’t amount to fuck all. Grappling is not nearly as easy as people seem to think, and that includes grappling defensively. As we see with tons of BJJ converts in MMA, striking can be incredibly difficult to pick up.
Mo Smith once said it’s hard to learn to strike, but easy to master, and it’s easy to learn how to grapple, but very very hard to master. To this case, it’s true. I’m sure Sam Peter could learn some very elementary groundwork, and go put the hand of God in the face of Bo Cantrell and Jerry Vrabanovic.
But a year or two of grappling is still just a year or two of grappling, and this is my point. MMA has guys who have wrestled all of their lives, and they still get taken down. Guys who have done BJJ for a decade, and still get submitted. Why? Well, partly because MMA is a wacky sport in that way. But also because like anything else… some guys are good at some things, and some guys aren’t. Maybe the Klitschkos, Sam Peter and some other boxing heavyweights would pick up grappling fluidly. Or maybe they would absolutely suck. Who knows? We just don’t know. And one or two years of grappling isn’t going to make any guy a truly top flight MMA competitor, because even in the absolute best case scenarios, guys still get taken down and showed up on the mat.
“We haven’t seen any high level boxers in mma because there is no financial incentive for the boxers to come over, not because they are incapable of learning how to sprawl.”
Again, I didn’t say anything to the contrary. This is of course, true. However, there is no way to tell what guys have the acumen for grappling and success in MMA.
“Sam Peter with those tiny gloves could knock out Arlovski with a jab”
No question here.
“Even if someone were to take him down and try to ground and pound him, his punches from the bottom would probably still do more damage than someone punching down on him from the guard. ”
And again, maybe this could happen. Maybe Sam Peter could tie guys up in the guard, and club them in the face. Or maybe he just doesn’t have the body skills to make his guard work. Maybe he just can’t pick up the nuances of ground positioning. Maybe he gets instantly mounted and armbarred.
Grappling is like anything else; some people pick it up, some don’t. Absolutely assuredly, there are some boxers out there who would have the total knack for it, and if they crossed over into MMA, would have great success. But it’s not as though if there was a mass exodus from the boxing world to MMA, that all these boxers are going to reign supreme. Again, MMA fighters at the highest level still get taken down and submitted all the damn time, after lifetimes of training on the mats.
I don’t have the energy to go through that point by point.
As for Cabbage being high level, the man was on the doorstep of the UFC hw title, so it’s not like he is a scrub. Eilers I believe fought for the hw title against Arlovski, or at least got to the number 1 contendership match. Buentello got a UFC title shot on the basis of having decent boxing ability. What does it mean? It means that in mma, the hw division is as thin as Nicole Richie. Whether or not boxers would have decent grappling skills after a year is a question we don’t know the answer to, but we likewise don’t know how the average grappler would do against a man who has the ability to end the fight with a single shot at any moment.
I have been trying to limit the argument to hw division, because in lower weight classes, there is more talent. The hw division is so thin because professional football and basketball in America take such a huge percentage of good hw athletes.
Regardless of whether or not you think a high level boxer would be very successful in mma with a year or two of grappling training, I think we both would like to see mma get big enough that UFC and Pride will be able to pay enough money to make it worth a high-level boxer’s time to cross over.
Good argument. Both have valid points.