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Tuesday talking points

By Zach Arnold | January 30, 2007

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Just a brief note — if you haven’t already listened to this week’s edition of FOR, check it out here. It includes a recap of the UFN 8 show (taped right after the show took place) and has two interesting guest interviews.

Here’s your Internet feud of the month – Monte Cox vs. Ken “The Pav” Pavia.

Onto today’s headlines, including news on the money making machine that is Oscar De La Hoya.

The IFL received good media press today, as Crain’s New York Business publication did a pretty substantial article on the MMA scene as a whole.

  1. Mainichi Daily News: Asashoryu denies fixing sumo bouts
  2. Fight Report: De La Hoya-Mayweather sells out and breaks live gate record in 3 hours (PRIDE is scheduled to run in Las Vegas the week before this fight)
  3. Ivan Trembow: WEC fighter Joe Pearson tests positive for marijuana ingredient
  4. UFC Junkie: Assuerio Silva scratched from rumored UFC 68 card
  5. Event notice: AMC Pankration Brawl at the Mall V on Saturday (2/10) at 7 PM, Vision Quest Sport & Fitness in Auburn, Washington (Josh Barnett in attendance).
  6. MMA News (radio): Interview with Gina Carano
  7. Full Contact Poker: Poker star Daniel Negreanu rips into Joe Rogan
  8. The San Bernadino Sun: WEC aims to be alternative to UFC
  9. The Los Angeles Daily News: Quinton jackson is ready to ‘Rampage’
  10. Eddie Goldman (radio): Bas Rutten & Bart Palaszewski interviews
  11. Jordan Breen: DSE asks fighters to learn English
  12. The Halifax Daily News: Roger Hollett in high-profile bout

Topics: All Topics, IFL, Media, MMA, UFC, Zach Arnold | 25 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |

25 Responses to “Tuesday talking points”

  1. oliveryamada says:

    I like that you guys don’t credit Jordan’s stuff as Sherdog, seeing as how one doesn’t have nearly the amount of credibility as the other.

    I wish Sherdog had a filter so that all I could see were MM-eh, the Brazilian Notebook, Koubousen Companion, results, and interviews.

    None of the retarded op-eds and previews.

  2. The MMA Critic says:

    The latest MMA Weekly Top 10 Rankings have been released. They are a joke. The bias towards Pride fighters is unreal. Nakamura continues to lose to top talent, and he is still in the Top 10. Yet, fighters like Rashad or Jardine and kept out. It makes no sense. Not to mention Suloev, Horn, Diaz, and a few others still being in the Top 10. Or how about Marquardt being ranked below Kang. The list goes on and on.

  3. Jordan Breen says:

    It’s also worth noting that FEG has inked 15-year-old junior high schooler HIROYA to fight in an amateur-type exhibition on the upcoming K-1 MAX card. Tsukasa Fuji probably isn’t far behind.

  4. sprewell rimz says:

    Zach, can you confirm Shogun vs. Overeem for PRIDE 33?

  5. Zach Arnold says:

    I didn’t see anything on their Japanese HP today about it. It wouldn’t surprise me, though.

  6. sprewell rimz says:

    supposedly it was on the PRIDE page for a period of time as being a confirmed fight.

  7. The Gaijin says:

    The fact that the joke of a fighter that is the hype-machine of Tito Ortiz is in the top 10 shows just how credible those rankings are. Ortiz holds a win over exactly zero decent LHW talent (other than the GIFT decisions over Griffin and Belfort – arguable whether they’re even top 10 anyways) in the last 4-5 years.

    I think there’s a very strong case for Rashad in the top 10, however I don’t really see what justifies Jaradine in those rankings. I don’t see him having a chance beating out anyone in that top 10, thus I don’t feel there’s a real case for his inclusion.

  8. Zach Arnold says:

    They don’t have anything listed now.

  9. JThue says:

    Radio show was fun, but Zach: Why the turnaround in your “opinion” of IFL? In one snap you’ve gone from “nice try, but they’re not getting enough out of things and are screwed regardless” to “they couldn’t have done anything better and are looking great”. I could hardly stomach listening to your thoughts on the fed – not because what you said didn’t make sense, but because your throw your own integrity out the window by cutting a promo like that after writing stuff like this:


    “notice the major development of the IFL going to PPV – which is something that the promotion was adamantly saying they wouldn’t do last year … Pointing out potential hypocrisy is not a cheap shot.” (

  10. JThue says:

    Art of War have removed the listing of Frank Shamrock’s supposed guest appearance for their debut show.

  11. Zach Arnold says:

    I’m entirely consistent in regards to the IFL. The one-hour Fox Sports Net shows cram way too many fights into too short of an amount of time. It’s hard to build up stars that way. The MyNetworkTV deal hopefully gives them a shot of at least taking their time and building up both fighters and the teams.

    If you look at, on paper, what the IFL has laid out for a business foundation, it’s pretty sharp. Now the live promotion end of things leave a lot to be desired. That’s something that a lot of start-ups in the entertainment world seem to forget. However, for me to sit here and deny what the IFL has set up so far on paper, would be foolish.

    I didn’t think much of the reverse stock deal they did, but the second that 60 Minutes valued them at $150 million USD, they took that and have ran with it to a point where the IFL stock value is inexplicably on the same level as WWE’s stock — and WWE makes substantially more cash.

    The IFL should have set up shop on PPV in the first place (combined with free TV).

    Believe me, the IFL has more potential of being a threat to UFC than PRIDE ever will in America. It isn’t even close.

  12. iain says:

    MMA critic, were you one the people saying nak was going to get blown out of the water by shogun? I think his performance against someone who can be argued as high as 1 and as low as 3 solidifies his place in the top 10. He might have lost top competition but he has only fought top competition. Rashad hasn’t fought one guy on the level of most of Nak’s wins (and losses).

    You are confusing world rankings with ufc rankings. Yes Rashad is winning consistently in the UFC but against competion that isn’t the best. Whereas Naka who apart from his Real Deal fight has never been handed easy opponents. Naka has great potential but is sort of stuck at a bad natural weight.

    Can you honnestly tell me Rashad would beat Naka and take Shogun to a competitive decision today? Kid has tons of potential but so does Naka and Naka has more legit accomplishments as of today.

    But again, rankings are all bullshit anyways right? ha!

  13. iain says:

    Should also say that Caras Jr and Leko were easy wins. Although hopping in there with Leko early in your fighting career is still no easy feat.

  14. Stu says:

    The Gajin, you contradict yourself. First you say “Ortiz holds a win over exactly zero decent LHW talent” for not listing Tito, but then in the next breath you mention Rashad. What ranked competition did Rashad beat?

  15. Zack says:

    Nak deserves to be in the top 10. He’s only lost to Shogun, Barnett, & Wanderlei in the last couple years. He’s fought better competition with Tito Ortiz, who hasn’t belonged in the top 10 in years. You really think Marquart should be ranked above Dennis Kang? Outside of a razor thin decision to Misaki last year, Kang had an amazing year. He’s had a better last 2 years than Rich Franklin in my opinion, but the UFC hype wagon can make people believe anything.

  16. Zack says:

    with = than

  17. Looking past the flaming, here’s what i got from the Cox/Pav drama: I agree with the Pav that MMA has to avoid the same mistakes that boxing made. Agents should not be promoters, and there should be clear conflict of interest guidelines laid out for refs and judges. I dunno how smart it was starting a possible ‘war’ with Cox, but the Pav made at least one fan in me.

    The whole story with Jason Reinhardt was just depressing. When he talks about how he’s friends with his current agents and about everything his agent and Cox did for him, I just felt kinda sick.

  18. Amy Robinson says:

    I’m glad a newssite finally posted something about the Pav “I’m killing my career show” on the UG. I’ve been following the insanity, its a rather amusing read.

  19. Zack says:

    Pav vs Monte started on the “Travis Fulton the boxer thread.” There’s also another one from the last couple days called “Pav the next Monte Cox?” Very funny reads…especially with that Taits Huge Gord/Riccos Fat Gut character who is obviously the same person, and may very well be Cindy O also.

  20. The Gaijin says:

    Stu: you’re right – it was a bit contradictory *I guess* but I really just didn’t have time to go through a long analysis of the rankings.

    Based on Tito’s performance over the last ~3-4 years he’s done absolutely NOTHING to warrant being in the top 10. He’s gotten smashed when facing top 10 guys, beat up an old man and fought guys in the 15-20 range with less than impressive results.
    His only reason for inclusion is his name is a draw for voters and he was a ridiculously protected paper champion for a good deal of time.

    On the otherhand, while Rashad Evans holds no wins over top 10 competition: he’s on a complete tear and has not had an opportunity to face top 10 competitin yet. Quite frankly outside of fighting Babalu, he’d have to be given a title shot (nowhere near ready yet) or go to PRIDE to get a crack at proving himself against top 10 fighters.

    And in my opinion Evans (at this point in time) is a more explosive grappler with better (demonstrated) striking/finishing ability than Ortiz and he’d own a win over him were they to fight each other tomorrow.

    Whom else would you include in the top 10?? I’d hate to put another PRIDE fighter in his place, b/c ino I’ve attracted heat previously as being a pro-PRIDE poster….

    I also don’t agree that Liddell is placed at #1 when he’s been merely fighting fighters he’s already beaten and thus not putting anything “on the line”, so to speak. Shogun rightfully deserves to be placed at #1 given his wins over 5 top 10 fighters since 2005; he has 1 loss in his last umpteen fights, which was a freak loss and has returned to his dominating form.

    That was my huge argument with Dave Doyle’s top 10 p4p: Shogun’s faced and beat top competition the whole way, got injured (only reason of inactivity) and then returned to equally dominating form that garnered Liddell #1, while Shogun is at #10.

  21. The Gaijin says:

    Question Zach:

    Finally got a chance to listen the radio show and: how can you question credibility of PRIDE (and believe me, with this most recent card I’m not saying they’re maintaining a great deal of credibility) and then in the same breath say you believe Dana White when he says “we want Silva in the UFC, even for a 1 fight deal, but PRIDE won’t make it happen.”

    This is the SAME guy that came onto a radio show and totally tried to shit talk and tear him down, say he got KTFO’d and wasn’t worthy of fighting and then had Liddell run him dow and say he was undeserving to get a shot either.

    I realize you also called White out for saying “Pride is my only competition”…he’s clearly trying to talk out both sides of his mouth by saying: Pride’s his only competition and then claim they won’t do a deal to allow Silva to have a one-off with Liddell (basically making them out to be chicked).

    I don’t believe for a red hot minute that White is in anyway serious about letting Silva come in and fight under the PRIDE banner against Liddell. Silva is under a greater handicap fighting under Liddell’s rules and in his backyard but there’s no way in hell Dana’s going to leave the door open to “show ass” like that.

  22. Eugh it’s all that blather that reminds me why I try to stay the hell out of forums as much as possible. It’s unfortunate that so much news gets leaked onto that forum, because at the same time it’s the breeding ground for some of the dumbest discourse ever. I leave the site every night with several links and eye herpes.

  23. Jordan Breen says:

    “The whole story with Jason Reinhardt was just depressing. When he talks about how he’s friends with his current agents and about everything his agent and Cox did for him, I just felt kinda sick. ”

    Who cares? Reinhardt can’t fight.

  24. Zach Arnold says:

    I view Dana White much in the same way that I view Vince McMahon. I am always trying to decipher what he is saying that is true and how much of what he is saying is false. Hence, I always usually come up with results that never look the same.

  25. The Gaijin says:

    Thats a great comparison – I was about to say, the guy reminds be of a carny barker the way he talks…

    And here’s a link to confirm Overeem vs. Shogun:


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