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Eddie Goldman issues challenges

By Zach Arnold | January 27, 2007

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By Zach Arnold

One of the hot topics today revolves around comments that Eddie Goldman made on his radio show about the UFC Ultimate Fight Night 8 event that took place on Thursday. Some people will construe the comments as a challenge, while others will no doubtedly look at them as Goldman declaring war on a lot of people.

Since I expect this to draw a lot of heat, I listened to the radio show and have taken some notes from what Eddie said about the UFC, pro-wrestling fans, and Dave Meltzer. Explosive.

Eddie Goldman on UFC Fight Night 8

  1. Regarding the fights on UFN 8, Eddie said that they were middling and mediocre fight performances with a lack of technique in the fights (he said that UFC likes to call itself the Super Bowl of MMA, but it’s more like a small-time dot-com college football bowl game instead).
  2. Anti-social behavior is a hallmark of UFC as far as their fight promotion is concerned (he brings up UFC promoting Heath Herring’s ‘kiss’ video with Yoshihiro Nakao as an example). Goldman said that Mike Goldberg sounds like a carnival barker from an infomercial when Goldberg claims that The Ultimate Fighter show has helped fans understand the courage of MMA fighters. Eddie says that TUF was a desparate attempt by Zuffa to save their organization, as TUF was marketed as pro-wrestling but with real fights (pointing out that the first TUF season had RAW as its lead-in on Spike TV).
  3. UFC showing shots of Hulk Hogan on TV is a point of contention. Eddie says that Mike Goldberg pointed out Hogan and called him an international superstar. Goldman fires back by saying that Hogan is not only a fake wrestler but also a guy who admitted to using steroids. What real sport would find a guy like Hogan in their audience and promote him as oppose to make fun of him? Why did UFC bow down to him? Goldman says that the reason is because UFC wants to be the new Hulk Hogan, not a new Muhammad Ali or a new Oscar de La Hoya.
  4. After Hermes Franca won his fight against Spencer Fisher, he got on his knees and begged Dana White for a title shot. Goldman claims that Dana likes to see fighters on their knees and that the way he treats the fighters, the fans, and the public in general shows what kind of level of relations there are between UFC and its employees.
  5. Eddie Goldman questioned why Heath Herring complained that there was too much wrestling by Jake O’Brien in their fight. He counteracts this by saying that we shouldn’t blame Herring because UFC as the promoter has created an anti-wrestling attitude by discouraging fights when they go to the ground. Goldman says UFC wants two grapplers or wrestlers in a kickboxing match, while BJJ and grappling are the least favorably viewed techniques in UFC.
  6. Eddie says that all of the points up above pale in comparison to the way the UFN 8 show ended, with Rashad Evans and Sean Salmon (two world-class wrestlers) engaged in a ‘kickboxing match’ which is what Eddie claims UFC calls MMA now. He points out that if you want to see real kickboxing, watch the World Combat League for great technique because you won’t see it in UFC. When Sean Salmon got KO’d by Rashad Evans, the UFC announcers amid all of the commercials never had the decency to say that we have a live show, keep the cameras rolling on Sean Salmon and wish him well and get better. Instead, to find out anything about Sean Salmon, you had to go on the Internet to find out more information. Eddie says that it was like UFC was trying to conceal and cover up the incident, therefore showing no shred of human decency. Eddie issues a challenge to the MMA media to discuss this on their shows because he doesn’t think that any real sport would ignore an athlete being knocked unconscious like UFC and Spike TV did, which he claims were too busy worrying about promoting Pros vs. Joes instead. (Read Sean Salmon’s thoughts about UFC and Dana White here.)
  7. Capping off the fiery radio show, Eddie Goldman says that he has more evidence of how far UFC has sunk and how UFC is trying to be the new ‘pro-wrestling.’ He gave Dave Meltzer praise for exposing the pro-wrestling business in the 1990s in the Wrestling Observer newsletter, but now Meltzer has integrated MMA into pro-wrestling year-end award categories. Real sports fans have a hatred and dislike for pro-wrestling because it’s an insult to their intelligence (it’s fake and has absurd storylines – ‘just stupid shows’), but now the fans of fake wrestling are voters in the WON awards which vote on MMA in pro-wrestling categories. For example, Ken Shamrock vs. Tito Ortiz was voted as Feud of the Year (to which Goldman says it was a fake pro-wrestling angle). Eddie says that promoting to pro-wrestling fans is promoting negative social values and not positive ones. UFC also won Promotion of the Year and Dana White won Promoter of the Year, which Eddie finds ironic because UFC tries so hard to promote itself like WWE does. Also, the Best Weekly TV Show was The Ultimate Fighter in the WON awards. Goldman says these voting results make it clearly understood that UFC is a wing of fake professional wrestling. Eddie challenges the voters and Meltzer as to why groups like Don King Productions, Golden Boy, the NFL, WCL, etc. were not in the Promotion of the Year award category if you are going to lump UFC in with groups like WWE and New Japan.
  8. Eddie Goldman concludes by saying that UFN was not about promoting fights, but about promoting anti-social values to keep the world made in the image of the UFC’s owners. He says that unlike Wally Matthews, you don’t see the UFC commentators being openly critical about their product. Eddie finishes out by challenging the MMA media to compare the decencies of MMA versus tainted sports like baseball (where baseball writers let baseball players slip through the cracks during The Steroid Era and not expose or point out wrong-doing). With the MMA Media, Eddie says the standards are very different.

Topics: All Topics, Media, MMA, UFC, Zach Arnold | 35 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |

35 Responses to “Eddie Goldman issues challenges”

  1. Stu says:

    I think it’s interesting how he says “What real sport would find a guy like Hogan in their audience and promote him as oppose to make fun of him?”. Yet I’ve never heard him say the same thing about IFL signing Inoki, the organization which he so highly praise.

  2. JV says:

    Who the F%$@ is Eddie Goldman, and why should we care? Let’s address his points:

    1) Middling technique? So an armbar as sweet as Herman’s was and a leg kick as crisp as Rashad’s was were middling techniques? Was he watching the same show? So Herring needs a ground game. We all can’t be perfect.

    2) So Mike Goldberg exaggerates, don’t all announcers to some degree? Perhaps TUF was a desperate attempt to save itself; it worked, didn’t it? And I think any idiot knows these fights are real and doesn’t equate them with pro wrestling.

    3) I think he’s reading way too much into showing off Hogan. He was a celebrity watching a UFC event. It was the UFC’s way of showing how popular it has become.

    4) Whatever.

    5) How did the UFC create an anti-grappling attitude? So they stand two fighters up from the ground who aren’t working. I don’t consider that fostering an anti-wrestling attitude.

    6) He’s right on the mark here. The UFC handled this poorly.

    7) Sorry, but the UFC folks are marketing geniuses. They are not a “wing” of pro wrestling.

    8) This guys a kook.

  3. Xenos says:

    Eddie Goldman is an irrelevant and bitter old man.

  4. The MMA Critic says:

    1. I think those comments need to be highlighted next to previous show comments where he said the IFL showed superior technique in their fights. Any reasonable MMA fan could tell you that the level of Pride & UFC fighters is far superior on a whole to anything you see in the IFL. Even people I have brought to the IFL shows thought it was a few steps below. O’Brien was boring, but showed great wrestling skills. Evans has become a complete MMA fighter. Franca is the Dan Henderson of the Lightweight Division. He looks awkward, but he somehow gets the job done with his weird style.

    2. The Herring Kiss is nothing more then promotion. Herring is known to thousands of people on YouTube from the kiss. The difference between this and Pro Wrestling, is that Herring still needs to go into the Octagon and perform. And he didn’t, so he lost. It is funny that Goldman talks about boxing promoters never taking advantage of the internet with things such as MySpace and YouTube… And then the UFC does this with a semi-famous YouTube Video, and he bashes them for it. Where is the credibility on Goldman’s part? I just don’t see it.

    3. I made a post on another topic about this. In short, the NFL, MLB, and various other “Major League” sports show actors in the stands all the time. Hogan is no different. He is a “Star”, just like Spike Lee is at Knicks games. I am no longer a fan of Pro Wrestling, but his tirades against PW is just as bad as his tirades against the UFC. Pro Wrestling is fun to watch when done right.

    4. Hermes Franca seemed to be having a good time with things. Fighters need to self promote, and that is what he was doing. I didn’t see anything wrong with it. The fight was basically a #1 Contender fight before the outcome.

    5. I don’t think anybody agreed with Herring on that night. That isn’t the UFC’s fault. And I think them promoting Evans, Koscheck, Hughes, Fitch, O’Brien, Gonzaga, and a few others… Is proof that they do not mind the grapplers. I do agree that sometimes too much emphasis is put on striking. However, there has been a fair enough balance for it to be okay. The UFC has made stars out of Couture, Ortiz, & Hughes. All 3 of them are mainly grapplers. Sometimes for the lower end fights, Goldman is completely correct. They would rather have a slugfest. However, if a fighter is good enough, he is going to be promoted, whether he is a grappler or striker.

    6. The WCL is a joke. The level of competition in there is poor. For anybody to call the real kickboxing is just comical. As for showing the injury…. I think he made good and bad points about it. First, SpikeTV is the one who controls the air waves. For him to blame the UFC for ending the show at 10pm is just wrong. The UFC has a timeslot, and unless SpikeTV gives them time to run over, they just can’t. As for not showing the injury, there are 2 areas of thought. The first is DO SHOW the injury so people can see the real effects of it. The second is to NOT SHOW the injury, because it glorifies violence. Neither is right or wrong. Personally, I would rather see the injury, but with all the legal issues the UFC goes through to get sanctioned, can you really blame them?

    7. The UFC cannot stop Dave Meltzer from reporting on MMA. In fact, Meltzer is on the best MMA reporters out there today, even though he still mostly does Pro Wrestling. I don’t see how this is the UFC’s fault in any way. It is no different then MMA being included with boxing on FoxSports.com. The UFC has no control over this either. He is trying to show a correlation that just doesn’t exist. The UFC puts out it’s product, and people report on it as they feel necessary. The UFC can try to change this direction through different media relations, but there is only so much they can do within the law.

    8. Joe Rogan disproves this theory. He went on and on about how Herring was looking like an Amateur. He talked about how certain fighters were brought into the fight to lose. That is pretty darn credible. And honestly, most MLB fans I know are sick of the steriod talks. They want to get back to baseball. A fan can only hear so many negative comments before they tune it out.

    Which is what I ave done with Eddie Goldman’s show. I listened to this episode, because of the topic matter. However, Eddie has lost much of the credibility that I once thought he had going back to his Eyada Radio Show days.

  5. Jordan Breen says:

    Eddie Goldman is a whiny, bitter old man who has lost just about every shred of credibility.

    “You don’t see the UFC commentators being openly critical about their product.”

    This is an idiotic comment given the last UFC. What does he want? For them to bash it? Rogan was critical of both Herring and O’Brien for their performances. He characterized O’Brien as being chosen to lose to Herring. He clearly depicted Rashad as the showcase fighter and cast Salmon as the “opponent”. That’s genuine, and it’s something new and refreshing the UFC couldn’t do before, since they had to constantly shill themselves to bolster themselves and the sport. They have the attention now, and guys like Rogan are being more honest and legit with their commentary.

    The UFC promotes anti-social behavior? Does this guy even watch Japanese MMA, and the video packages that organizations like PRIDE and K-1 use to promote fighters?

    “Rashad Evans and Sean Salmon (two world-class wrestlers) engaged in a ‘kickboxing match’ which is what Eddie claims UFC calls MMA now.”

    Salmon tried to take Evans down, and did so. Evans tried to kickbox because Salmon is a better wrestler than he is, as was shown. Goldman is an idiot.

    “He points out that if you want to see real kickboxing, watch the World Combat League for great technique because you won’t see it in UFC.”

    The World Combat League, where Tra Telligman has competed. Remind me how Tra Telligman’s striking has faired in the Octagon? I’m sure Anderson Silva, Cheick Kongo, Antoni Hardonk, Brandon Vera, Sam Stout, Mark Hominick, Mirko CroCop and others would be terrified of the beasts in the WCL.

    Eddie Goldman is a whiny old bitch, and I would personally serve him on FightOpinion Radio if need be, and tell him to get a haircut.

  6. Jeff Hamlin says:

    The National Hockey League (Tampa Bay Lightning) has associated itself with Hogan, where his daughter sang the national anthem for Stanley Cup Playoff games in 2004. People in the Canada at the U.S. consider hockey a “real sport.” Not to mention Hogan and Jimmy Hart sitting courside at Orlando Magic games (which was caputred by TV crews).

    Discouraging wrestling? Josh Koscheck won a fight on the last UFC by exclusively using takedowns. No standup at all. He wasn’t punished by UFC. He won the fight, and now (reportedly) he’s fighting Diego Sanchez next.

    As for his WON rant, he misses the point of why Dave includes MMA. UFC, Pride et all are organizations that sanction what pro wrestling was in the early 20th century, when it was truly a shoot. MMA is pro wrestling is in purest form. As an observer subscriber for 11 years, that’s why I read it. Pro wrestling isn’t one flavor. For those who want storyline driven material, we watch WWE or TNA. For those who want something real, we watch UFC or Pride.

    As for antisocial values, isn’t boxing’s top promoter a man who once stomped someone to death? But Dana White is a bad person because he yanked Goldman’s press credential? Based on this rant, I would submit the problem wasn’t Dana took away his press pass, it was that he didn’t do it soon enough.

    And it’s silly to think UFC is the only sports group promoting “antisocial values.” What is antisocial to Goldamn? If Reggie Bush taunts Brian Urlacher by needlessly diving into the end zone, is that antisocial? Goldman gushes about Ali (as do I), but contrary to Goldman’s statements on a past FOR show, Ali wasn’t being lighthearded when he referred to Joe Frazier as an “Uncle Tom.” He was serious, and Frazier still carries those wounds with him today.

    But that’s besides the point. Dana White’s job isn’t raising anyone’s children. It’s to make money and promote UFC. Revile him for that, if you must. But in that regard, he’s no different from David Stern, Roger Goodell, Bud Selig, Gary Bettman or even Vince McMahon. Every major sports league (and the networks that promote them) has done something that, by Goldman’s standards, would be deemed antisocial.

    UFC struggled for years to find acceptance. Now, after overcoming steep odds and nearly being unfairly shutdown, it’s thriving. I just wish I could understand why so many are bitter about it.

    Eddie, hate if you want to hate. Just keep it off my wave.

  7. EvilMaster says:

    I love this place 🙂

  8. Jason Bennett says:

    As Borat would say, “Very nice!”

  9. robnashville says:

    1. Middling performances – It’s free tv, what does he expect. On free TV you’re gonna get developing fighters who are building to bigger and better things. The fighters are in a maturation process. I don’t think UFC should be faulted for this.

    2. Goldman has a point on using the Nakao-Herring incident to promote UFN 8. Do you see the NBA using the Artest mele to promote itself? If you use some video with sideshow appeal to promote your product, don’t get upset when you are treated like a sideshow instead of a sport. Does Dana care how he is getting a 1.7 rating or 1.2 million PPV buys as long is he is meeting his numbers? I don’t think so.

    3. Hogan is a mainstream figure and Reality TV star. Any event would have put him on air. I’ve seen several hockey games where he was shown in the crowd. Goldman is reaching on this one.

    4. I think this point speaks more to Dana’s love of spotlight than anything else. In an ideal world, i wouldn’t have a clue who Dana White was if I saw him on the street. I’m sure Dana was eating up the attention generated by Franca’s antics, he’s not a wall flower by any means.

  10. Lynchman says:

    I don’t consider Eddie Goldman a legit journalist.
    I have listened to a couple of his shows and found his bias completely overwhelming everything else.

    Is anyone shocked by his comments?

    The only one I will comment on is Sean Salmon. Personally, I would not have liked to have them focus on his unconcious body while the doctors checked him. That, to me, would have been explotive. Especially if he ended up being seriously injured. Let the doctors do what they need to do.

    As I understand, it was announced at the press conference that he was ok. That info was given to the press.

    Any legit questions he raises, are drowned out by his constant petty attacks.

  11. JThue says:

    If you’re going to critisize FN (WHY do people still include the U that was removed half a year ago?!?!?!?!), there are two valid points, one of which it absolutely amazes me that noe one has brought up.

    1. The mentioned Salmon-hushing. Boo.

    2. The pacing of this show was ABSOLUTELY HORRID! With THREE live fights over TWO hours and an absolute deadline of 10pm, they still managed to talk and promo so much(not least during the second hour) that if it hadn’t been for Evans’ high kick they would have gone overtime and pissed off Spike big time. How on earth is this possible? Not least given the hard lesson learned in December? Absolutely shockingly bad work done by the UFC in this department. So bad that I would have preferred for the main event to keep going so they would have been made to pay for it, either by being cut off or in some other way.

  12. Jeff says:

    Eddie Goldman is the first true mma journalist but his credibility has sunk really far.

    He is sponsered by the IFL now, they pay his bills, so he is now their shill.
    He will never criticize the IFL, where the fighter quality is generally lower than the UFC. Eddie fails to, despite his access, to bring us any real news from the IFL. He is just a mouthpiece. I think his audience would be better served if he focused on doing some real reporting about the sport instead of this vendetta of his.

  13. badape says:

    Hey, Zuffa sucks and all, and if Goldman is saying the UFC events tend to be full of freakish drooling rednecks, and dried up, interminable freakshow fights, I agree.

    “Anti-Social” though. This term confuses me. Really, to call someone “anti-social” is to say 1/ “I” don’t like the way the other is acting, 2/ “I” want the other to give “me” verbal communication. If fighters and the fools at Zuffa act in insufferable manner, say that. Drop this “anti-social” garbage from the repertoire.

    How about knees and kicks to “downed” opponents? Take a shot at something that matters: Marc Ranter, Lorenzo Fertitta, their administrative presence in American (Canadian and the United States of …) athletic commissions. Stuff like that, Goldman.

  14. grafdog says:

    It seems many of you are unable to properly rebut or even begin to refute Goldman’s observations and have resorted to denigrating him and questioning whether or not he is a journalist.

    Mr Goldman has been reporting on the ufc and mma in general since shortly after its inception. With his recent comments he has pointed out very obvious shortcomings in the quality of fighters and the quality of promotion they receive.

    He has in other words made observations and reported them. This constitutes journalism.
    In all actuality he is more legit than the huge majority of news people who just say whats handed to them.
    Case in point “Zuffa myth” do you consider the reporters who pass these lies off as news to be legit? when the have not bothered to verify facts?

    What about every single news org tv and newspaper parroting “iraq has wmd’s” or “iraq building nooklear weapon” ? Are they legit?

    NO. They have never verified anything.

    One cannot argue that the ufc has been promoted to the lowest common denominator in recent years. The mixing of the military and police training in with the ufc has been shameless and calculated and one can argue that the promo of herring was used to incite emotions.

    I got cut off, but lets look at each point made and the empirical evidence to support them to verify whether they are true or false.

    #1 true
    #2 true
    #3 speculative
    #4 true
    #5 true
    #6 true
    #7 speculative
    #8 false and true- They are promoting fights, and they are promoting anti social behaviors.

    ‘Nuff said

  15. Jason Bennett says:

    I think if you can dig underneath Goldman’s vigilant UFC posturing, he makes a few credible arguments that should be considered. The only problem with with his podcast, is he never, ever mentions the UFC unless it is bitingly obtusely negative; so you have to take his commentary with a grain of salt.

    If you boil away the venomous attacks, what I see in his comments are that he would like to see the UFC presented just as any other sport would be, with dignity, class and straightforward sportsmanship rather than the UFC’s more sensationalistic approach that IS closer to a pro-wrestling angle.

    I personally agree with this. I like the product that the IFL is producing and the way it’s presented is very professional and non-patronizing. You won’t hear any ‘most anticipated match EVER’ rants from IFL announcers, like you get in UFC and Pride. Also, it seems that every other organization actually acknowledge other promotions with mentions of talent and past experience elsewhere; it’s classless that the UFC will not discuss other orgs, they would never lose viewers due to mentioning other promotions, contrarily it would could promote itself as a higher level of competition than the other guys.

    However, I’m not so against what the UFC is doing that I feel as strongly as Goldman does. The UFC is working to grow as quickly and swiftly as possible and what they are doing obviously works (hopefully not just for the short term). I don’t feel there’s an agenda (known or unknown) to spread anti-social behavior or bow down to Dana ‘It’s Good to Be’ White. I love watching the UFC and I enjoy what they produce but could they do better, certainly. Would it be as successful? We’ll never know.

    Thanks Eddie for striking up interesting conversation.

  16. The MMA Critic says:

    grafdog,

    I think you lost all credibility when you agreed with his anti-social comment. From Wikipedia.org, here is what Anti-Social actually is:

    “Anti-social behaviour (which can be spelled with or without the hyphen) is often seen as public behaviour that lacks judgement and consideration for others and may cause them or their property damage. It may be intentional, as with vandalism or graffiti, or the result of negligence. Persistent anti-social behaviour may be a manifestation of an antisocial personality disorder. The counterpart of anti-social behaviour is pro-social behaviour, namely any behaviour intended to help or benefit another person, group or society.[1]

    In common parlance, antisocial often has a significantly different meaning and is used to describe those who perceived to be excessively introverted. Though technically an incorrect definition of the antisocial behaviour, this use has become increasingly common.”

    Not exactly sure how the UFC would in any way, shape, or form classify as being anti-social.

    Purely comparing Goldman to other MMA “journalists” still doesn’t prove your point about his comments being correct or not. And just because he observers and has an opinion, doesn’t make him credible. He has an AGENDA, which makes him about as far from being a legit journalist as there is.

    And I love how you say true or false without any explanation for the majority of the points. You agree with him, but you don’t bring up the fact that he says the IFL fighters have superior technique. Or that he use to prefer the cage, and now that the IFL uses a ring, he suddenly switches his views and claims that a lack of technique happens in the cage. The list goes on and on.

    Like I said, I use to love his show on Eyada. But he has just gotten horrible lately. A real “hater” if there ever was one.

  17. KennyP says:

    Since everyone else has already rebutted Goldman’s main points, I thought I’d go after the least important one 🙂 About the whole Hogan thing:

    First off, I think there is a whole generation of people who know “hulk Hogan the wrestler”, but have never once seen him wrestle. Ever. They know him from VH1 or his acting work or from appearing in the various celebrity magazines. (People, Us, EW, etc.) This is no different from the the legions of other people known for being a “celebrity” without any understanding of what exactly was the source of their fame.

    Second, if it is indeed embarrassing that a real sport promoted itself with a fake wrestling icon, then here is an (incomplete) list of other folks who should also be embarrassed:

    NHL Carolina Hurricanes – Use the Ric Flair “Whoo!” video and tape to pump up the crowd. (I believe other NC/SE teams also use Flair for crowd response.)

    MLB Chicago White Sox – Following a TNA wrestling angle involving catcher AJ Piersynzki and coach (and former WCW wrestler) Dale Torborg, with a cameo chairshot from manager Ozzie Guillen, TNA wreslters presented the team with a replica title belt. The title belt was then presented (and announced) daily as the official 2006 Player of the Game trophy. (Note: In the 1970’s, Sox co-owner Eddie Einhorn tried to create a nationally televised pro wrestling promotion. Almost a decade before WWF made the concept work.)

    ABC Sports – Showed Joe Laurenitis, aka Road Warrior Animal, watching his son James play for Ohio State during at least 1/2 dozen games this year. On multiple occasions, the announcers explicitly mentioned WWE, Legion of Doom, Road Warriors. (This one might be the most ironic to Goldman, because the Road Warriors were major steroid users during the peak of their careers, and Road Warrior Hawk died from damage likely caused by his drug addictions.)

    MLB Tampa Bay Devil Rays – Former Nasty Boy Brian Knobbs has gone beyond hardcore fan and has evolved into some sort of cheerleader. He is constantly shown on the local telecasts sitting behind home plate and the announcers (team employees) mention him frequently.

    AAA Buffalo Bisons/Rochester Red Wings – Annually promote “Ballpark Brawl” postgame shows in the stadium.

    CSTV network – Employs current WWE personality Jonathan Coachman as an announcer of major college basketball/football.

    Iditarod sled dog race – Significant race promotion of (former Road Warriors manager) Paul Ellering “visually interpreting” for blind musher Rachael Scdoris.

    And these are only examples of reputable major sports organizations embracing professional wrestlers for the “relative” celebrity they bring. (I excluded most minor league promotions because, well, they’re minor league.) And any list that included pro athletes involved in wrestling promotion on their own time would be much, much longer.

  18. Eddie makes good points, although he makes them more strongly than I would in several areas. My take on each of Zach’s summary paragraphs:

    1. The level of the fights were decent, no better than that. Nevertheless, I thought Ed Herman showed great technique with his armbar. But, a mediocre level of fighting is inevitable when MMA has a shallow talent pool and the UFC run so many shows on T.V. I don’t think the IFL is any better, for example.

    2. While I do not like much of the UFC’s marketing (as I have written repeatedly), Eddie is much more upset by it than I am.

    3. Eddie’s off base here. Hulk Hogan is famous (not just for wrestling but also for his reality TV show), and the UFC always shows celebrities in the audience.

    4. I agree. Check out Meltzer’s LA Times article in which he describes an exchange at the press conference: Rashad Evans told Dana White that he does not want to fight Keith Jardine because they train together, and Dana barked that Rashad will fight whomever Dana tells him to fight. Dana wants every fighter to be submissive to him, and he seemed to enjoy watching Franca beg.

    5. Eddie is right, Herring has no reason to complain and the UFC has seemed to favor sloppy kick boxing over grappling. It is not the UFC’s fault, however, that Evans and Salmon kept the fight on their feet. That’s a product of the fact that a good wrestler with superior striking and questionable bjj skills (Evans) is better off fighting another wrestler (Salmon) on his feet where he has the greatest advantage.

    6. The UFC screwed up big time by not letting fans know Salmon’s condition. I meant to talk about it on the Fight Opinion Radio show, but somehow it got past me. I thought that was very low-class on the part of the UFC.

    7. For a long time I have written (and said) that the UFC promotes itself just like pro wrestling. I don’t like that at all. But, I think Eddie makes too much of the fact that Meltzer and his readers have decided to include the UFC in their voting.

    8. Promoting anti-social values to keep the world made in the image of the UFC’s owners? True, the UFC does not promote the strong values found in martial arts and they are trying to control the image of the sport of MMA in the minds of fans, but Eddie’s opinion is too strong for my states on this point. I do not find the UFC to be totally anti-social.

    Finally, I don’t think Eddie was talking about me when he said the MMA media is afraid to criticize the UFC or its owners. Other sites are very reluctant to criticize major promotions, and I would like to see them take a stronger stand – as I have said on the radio show and written on my site.

  19. Mateo Suge says:

    So this guy used to get into UFC events for free, and now he doesn’t? Sounds like sour grapes to me.

    And even worse, he now gets into IFL events for free and is cheerleading for them?

    How can anyone take this guy seriously. If you comp him, he will love your product? Dripping with integrity.

  20. grafdog says:

    mma critic, regarding tuf (arguably the most accessible ufc show) whats pro social about being shut away with a bunch of guys all thinking about fighting?

    Fighting is anti social already and when the ufc ignores a Salmon knock out or Matua knock out etc, it ignores the pro social behavior of caring andhelping an injured person.
    The simple fact that they promote the violence with very little attention paid to the sometimes injurious results shows a bias toward the anti social behavior.

    UFC by its very definition is anti social, they can never change this fact. Therefor ufc can only try to make fighting socially acceptable.
    The biggest shows in the ufc have been promoted on the anti social antics between Chuck-Tito-Ken.
    Lee murray was brought in to hopefully finish a street fight with Tito.
    A cop who participated in a brutal barefisted fight with kimbo is promoted, even though he had no business being in the ufc, and no business fighting just for the sake of fighting.
    The (my) old image of a cop was a guy who broke up fights or anti social behavior, not participate in them.

    Mma critic you lost credibility when you quoted wikipedia, rather than stop to consider what might be considered anti social about bad mouthing someone then beating them up on live tv, then bad mouthing them some more. Thats anti social behavior mmmkay.

    Here’s what my old dictionary says…
    anti social…
    1 Unwilling or unable to associate in a friendly way with people.
    2 Antagonistic or hostile towards others.

    Thumbs up for Goldman for stating the obvious without resorting to wikipedia for help.
    Whether or not you agree with his comments you might want to think about them.

    Wikipedia LOL what a joke…

    Wikipedia ” the encyclopedia you edit”….lol

  21. the wrestler says:

    Why is ANYONE addressing anything Goldman said?

    Goldman is a d##k. He’s a bitter, angry old guy who has serious issues against the UFC, to which most of us already know all about. Why go point by point with what he said? Goldman is irrevelent to MMA and should just go crawl in a hole and die.

  22. Goldman was an employee of Bob Meyrowitz (SEG) and is currently on the IFC payroll. Can we expect any type of editorial independence or journalistic integrity from Eddie?

  23. The MMA Critic says:

    There was a scientific study done a little while ago that found that Wikipedia and a typical encyclopedia average the same number of errors per entry, making Wikipedia just as reliable as a legit encyclopedia. Of course, the book companies disputed this, but the study speaks for itself.

  24. Chaos says:

    Nice to see you come here and defend yourself, Eddie….er, I mean “grafdog”.

    As a fighter I find your comments very condescending. You call it anti-social when the guys on TUF live together and all they think about is fighting? Uh, that’s what happens at every training camp for every fighter in the world. What are we supposed to be doing while there? Coming up with delicious cookie recipes? No, we’re there to learn how to be the best fighter we can be. That comment alone lets me know you know NOTHING about fighting.

    As a guy who has been knocked out cold a few times like Salmon was Thursday night, I had no worries about his well being. And I’m sure guys involved with fighting in the UFC for 10 years and beyond like White, Ratner, McCarthy, ect were even less worried. Because they know fighters that died (usually boxers) took long term beatings, not just 1 kick and 2 or 3 punches. If you’re that disturbed by someone getting knocked, you need to stop watching every fighting art period.

    And as a fighter, something you don’t have the guts to actually do, let me say that your theory about having a camera on an injured fighter for an extended period of time is a very demeaning idea that would probably anger the critics of MMA more than not discussing the matter (and they couldn‘t since the show was over, duh!) I would not want a camera watching me trying to regain consciousness after getting embarrassed like that. And if you ask Mr. Salmon I’m sure he wouldn’t either.

    Go watch golf, fighting obviously isn’t for you.

  25. iain says:

    I disagree with all his points apart from the anti-grappling mentality in the UFC. Yeah the UFC hasn’t overtly said we only like knockouts but the fighters themselves definitely express a feeling of grappling, groundfighting, submissions=bad and ko’s = good.

    I mean fuck, saying sorry for subs? that’s bullshit.

  26. JThue says:

    UFC themselves are also clearly phasing out grappling. Just look at head ref McCarthy’s ridiculous behaviour at FN on Thursday, specifically the stand ups in the Lister-Marquardt fight, where even Rogan was throwing a fit on commentary over Big John’s obvious BIG change of heart in stand-up policy(and surely he didn’t just come up with that by himself). We’re not too far away from where I can see an MMA company in the US soon being able to market themselves successfully as the “promotion that allows grappling”.

  27. Chaos says:

    Look, something has to be done about the lay n pray crap that goes on way too much in the UFC. I have not seen a UFC referee stop an exciting ground war, just a fighter laying on another with nothing going on.

    Someone buying a UFC PPV for the first time, thinking about getting into the sport isn’t going to be forking over another 40 bucks to see two men laying on each other doing nothing for the majority of the show unless they’re homosexual.

    I fully realize transitioning to a move, BJJ artists waiting for a mistake, ect, but what was O’Brien doing when he was stood up? Nothing, he was just waiting out the rounds. If you want to see that, you’ve got problems.

    If UFC was really ending ground fighters, they would not have BJ Penn, Matt Serra, Matt Hughes, Jeff Monson, Hermes Franca, Tito Ortiz and Randy Couture in the main event picture for 2006 and/or coming up in 2007. It’s not their fault champions Liddell, Silva and Sylvia mostly win by KO and Cro Cop is going to be the next champion with KOs. Grapplers need to step up their stand up.

  28. JThue says:

    The war against Lay’n Pray is indeed a just cause, but UFC are going about it the wrong way. They’re basically saying “less laying, more striking” rather than focusing on simply eliminating the problem, which is not grappling but stalling in general. They could REALLY learn a lot from PRIDE on how to handle this(both with stand-ups and point deductions/purse deductions if allowed by commision). An issue in the US that UFC can not be blamed for is how apalling many of the referees are when it comes to understanding the ground game, but a man like McCarthy has no excuses in this area. It’s not very complicated either:

    1. Wrestling includes no finishing, so a wrestler just controlling should be stood up as it leads to NOTHING at all.
    2. Jui-Jitsu DOES include finishing, so a referee should recognize the difference between stalling and working. No, the Royce-type BJJ of an endless setup should not be allowed, but to stand up a JJ-fighter who is actively using his guard from the bottom is freaking insane, and UFC and IFL are both treading dangerous waters here.

  29. grafdog says:

    Chaos,
    Your first paragraph just proves the point that they are in effect promoting anti social behavior.

    Secondly, you have been knocked out, but the majority of viewers have not.
    I never presented the theory you refer to. By covering up the aftermath of a fight resulting in injury they do the sport an injustice by not showing how they are cared for, and showing the consequence of their actions.

    Why denigrate me when you’ve validated some of Goldmans points with your comments.

    You’ve overreached yourself by claiming i’m not a fighter.

    I’m a martial artist have been for some time practiced judo and escrima between 10-12 tried boxing but the smell and the lack of skills at the P.A.L gym turned me off.
    I’ve wrestled in high school. I’ve had a quite a few street fights out of high school all of which i was defending myself. I got the better of them all. I have fought 3 guys at once, a drunk friend of mine and i fought 4 guys bigger than us. I was attacked by 9 teenagers and ran, got a call from some buddy’s later that night, and we went out looking for them. They were arrested for breaking into a store and were saved a beating.
    Started practicing Kenpo at 25 kickboxing at 26. A few years later got back into judo after training jiu jitsu from renzo gracie tapes. Trained some sambo via Yakimov with my neighbor.
    I have actually armbarred a guy in a street fight. I have tapped out twice in my life when i was exhausted in the dojo after taping 4 other students then getting layed on for 3 minutes by the teacher.

    I have many more stories, but you get the point.

    Sometimes the best knowledge is knowing when to quit.

  30. Chaos says:

    “Your first paragraph just proves the point that they are in effect promoting anti social behavior.”

    By saying when we train we have fighting on our minds? I’m not sure what they did in what you’re claiming to have experience in, but at my camps it has been working yourself hard to become the best fighter possible, which means thinking of strategies and learning what to do in situations. I’m sure all the fighters who read this site and/or have been interviewed on the show would agree.

    When you get to that point, the meditation, “respect for the art” and semi-spiritual teachings of martial arts classes are not there. If you’re into that, then great. I’m not. I get pleasure out of fighting. Not going out and maiming someone, but the rush of it. Not the art and sensei teachings. I guess in your opinion I’m anti-social. Whatever.

    The thing about TUF that is different from other camps is that they are competing, and therefore trash talking for the camera is featured on the show. I’m guessing that’s what you have the issue with. Fighting is part show business. If you don’t like that and think it‘s too WWF, that’s your opinion. But it’s what sells in America and we need to make money. 99.99% of guys don’t mean what they say and would feel horrible if they seriously injured someone like they might claim they’re going to do in interviews, it’s just show business to get people’s attention. Your idol Ali did it too, Eddie. Hell, he made it an artform by copying pro wrestlers “promos” in his pre-fight interviews. I’ve never had hatred for someone I’ve competed against, and I hope they didn’t have hatred for me. But for 15 minutes or less that goes out the window and it‘s survival of the fittest. And we live for that.

  31. Mehdi says:

    In 2007 why should anyone give a rat’s arse what Goldman says? Any TRUE fan of the sport would not begrudge the UFC their success, it’s good for the sport, it’s good for the fighters. I’m sure the thing that bugs Goldman the most is the that millions of new fans have no idea who he is and care even less. Don’t slow down progress old man and FFS get a clue about promotion. Zuffa are in this business to make money not promote some ridiculous, romantic idea about the purity of sport and sportsmanship.

  32. Fisher/Franca, Herman/Price and Guida/Thomas were all great fights. While most of these fighters are still continuing to climb the ladder to becoming legitimate top 5 names, you can’t deny that they are all top tier talent.

    I listen to pretty much all of the mma podcasts and Goldman’s was the only one I made a firm decision to stop listening to because I find him generally boring. It wouldn’t surprise me if he did this in order to create a stir and help his exposure. Oh what a pro wrestling thing to do 😉

  33. Mike says:

    Methinks Eddie needs to get out of the house more often.

  34. Ben says:

    JThue: You mentioned that Rogan threw a fit over the stand-ups in List/Marquardt, but that wasn’t televised, so I’m curious as to where you read this. Any helpw ould be appreciated.

  35. […] In addition to our guest interviews, we have a segment reviewing the controversial statements made by Eddie Goldman on his radio show. Plus, a recap of the UFC 67 event (take note of some of the items we noticed that others didn’t during this event). […]

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