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Showtime & Elite first show
By Zach Arnold | December 14, 2006
Elite Xtreme Combat HP link here. First show is on February 10th in Southaven, Mississippi (a few miles away from Memphis, Tennessee) with Frank Shamrock vs. Renzo Gracie in the main event at the DeSoto Civic Center. The building has a capacity of around 8,000-9,000.
Commentary: What makes the location an interesting selection is that it may have influenced the situation with UFC & WFA. How so? There’s a certain fighter who is a very large figure in Memphis circles and could have drawn very, very well there. His name? Quinton Jackson.
Update: Sherdog says that the Elite promotion will use a 15-second time limit for fights on the ground. This is a bad idea. I saw this concept with Kazuyuki Fujita against boxer Imamu Mayfield on the Inoki Bom-Ba-Ye 2003 show…
Topics: All Topics, Media, MMA, Pro Elite, Zach Arnold | 35 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |
Intresting, not a bad way to start BUT they will definitly need more than Frank shamrock to keep them going.
Smart first booking for sure, the Shamrock and Gracie names are very strong along the top.
well a shamrock gracie card did strikeforce wonders.
is the location going to draw? it seems kind of backwoods ish. Although if it’s near memphis… Do the have a lot of boxing in that region?
Memphis was and still is a very large pro-wrestling hotbed. Boxing as well, as there have been a few events there (including one with Mike Tyson a few years ago against Clifford Etienne if I’m not mistaken). The Mississippi commission is a very relaxed commission (pro-MMA, pro-boxing).
ah yeah thats right good old southern wrasslin!
That being said do wrestling fans in the states jump into mma like in japan? or has it been more popular with fans of boxing and collegiate wrestling?
Do they allow knees to the head on the ground in Mississippi?
I think alot of Wrestling fans will easily and HAVE jumped to MMA (alot of my friends have for example) but vice versa is a rare occasion. Though I dont think the casual wrerstling fan is going to becoema casual MMA fan unless they are presented with it via friends or another source.
Also announced at the pres conference that Goldberg and Mario Lopez (better known as AC Slater from Save by the bell) will be announcing….wow I never thought PRIDEwould have better announcers than any other MMA show but there ya go.
Mississippi uses the Unified Rules and I think they get a 6% cut. It’s strange why they would promote in Southaven and not right in Memphis, as TN allows MMA for certain (Rob Sayers, our old co-host, used to go to events there). It’s certainly a hot bed for a lot of BJJ and MMA schools.
Is that Shawn “gimme a payday” O’haire.
A poor showing by Showtime MMA. Yes, Shamrock vs. Gracie will at least get some hardcore fans interested. However, for a company that has tons of backing and a huge TV station behind it as well, the level of talent is piss poor.
If you look at the 5 major weight classes in MMA, Showtime MMA has exactly 1 fighter in the Top 20 of any of these weight classes. And that is a perceived “washed up” former UFC fighter named David Loiseau. all the rest aren’t even Top 20 in the world.
When this show is over with, it will have absolutely zero effect on rankings in MMA. And I don’t think Shamrock or Gracie have enough fan appeal to really make this a huge success. To the casual fan, this is a ripoff of the UFC. This is “a Gracie not named Royce” for “a Shamrock not named Ken.” So now you have a main event that not only has no baring on the rankings, but will feel like a cheap ripoff of the UFC.
Lastly, Showtime MMA already got the UFC to buy the WFA to basically block tons of fighters contracts. And Strike Force is really pissed off with them for “stealing” Frank Shamrock. And Strike Force has enough VERY STRONG ties with good gyms in California to make negotiations for certain fighters even more difficult.
I see this thing failing once the UFC gets on HBO.
I agree I also can see this fialing BUT it depends on how the product and how the Showtime people present the product. Many people thought IFL will fail (including u critic) but it seems to be going strong into 2007…so i would wait for the first few shows to happen before passing full judgment. I can see the casual MMA fan getting into the product if its DONE RIGHT…if its done poorly the casual fan will see that too and for what it is (a UFC ripoff).
My thoughts were titled: “IFL = Failed Concept”. It is still a failed concept. MMA is a singles sport, not a team sport.
I just want to throw out a few questions:
1. What if Strikeforce does have a legal contract and attempts to stop Frank Shamrock from fighting o the card?
2. What if Renzo Gracie is KO’d less then 45 days before the event by Carlos Newton? The Mohegan Sun Athletic Commission won’t put a medical suspension on Renzo (that I am aware of). However, the MS Athletic Commission would still be very unlikely to allow a recent KO victim to fight in one of their cards.
MMA Critic is exactly right. This is not an overly exciting card. And after listening to J.D. Penn on No Holds Barred, I’m even less optimistic about their success.
I wonder if PRIDE made any kind of play for Showtime through Ed Fishman. That seems like an ideal match — an already established brand with a small but loyal following (and great potential for national growth). Of course, PRIDE’s U.S. office is likely too behind the ball to have made any real move. A real shame.
My thoughts were titled: “IFL = Failed Conceptâ€. It is still a failed concept. MMA is a singles sport, not a team sport.
Wow u cant get more close minded than that.
BSP, you are absolutely right, it would have been a match made in heaven.
I don’t know, this seems kind of crappy at first but if it’s the showtime boxing team behind the production I could definitely see this growing. If they would just drop the brand approach and try putting on big fights this could be gold.
Listening to Penn’s interview, I was more than a little confused. He talked about wanting to be neutral ground where fighters from different orgs could come to fight each other.
Showtime reaches 13 million homes. Spike reaches 90 million. I just don’t see them being able to pay anywhere near enough to pull things like that off. Yes, the UFC is going to give up fights that could make them millions so it can be on a channel with such limitted audience.
The major problem with that concept is that the UFC signs the vast majority of its fighters to exclusive contracts. And Pride either has fighters to exclusive contracts or pays them enough that they have zero motivation to fight on Showtime and anger Pride. So the pool of talent to choose from is basically Frank Shamrock, Renzo Gracie, Matt Lindland, and a few other fighters.
This is one of the major reasons why the UFC purchased the WFA. They removed a large number of fighters from the market. They went for the jugular against Showtime.
Showtime is in the very early stages of its relationship with MMA. Right now they’re feeling out the market and interest. All they need to do is to put a little of the money they put towards boxing and they’ll have good cards. Maybe 4 this year, six or eight next year and so on. UFC isn’t going to tie up all of its guys forever. They don’t like doing long term contracts because of what happened with Pedro Rizzo. He signed a five or six fight deal for big money and stopped training. By his third contracted fight they had an overweight, vastly overpaid jobber that nobody really wanted to see anymore.
MMACritic, you’re taking a very near-sighted look at Showtime and the IFL. UFC is in a great position right now, but there is room for other promotions to be successful. You don’t need to make $30 million per event to be profitable in MMA. Airing on Showtime is essentially airing on free TV. It’s not in as many homes as Spike, but just about everyone knows somebody that has Showtime. And they usually make their boxing events available on PPV for $7.95 if you aren’t a Showtime subscriber.
Running Memphis is a great idea. IFL is doing the same thing by running smaller markets and it’s smart. There is a lot of competition for audiences in Las Vegas and LA. I can guarantee that this MMA show will be the most exciting thing happening in Memphis on February 10th. You get 8,000 people in that building and its a sell out with a loud, excited crowd. You sell 30,000 beers and 10,000 hotdogs and you’re making good money.
Frank Shamrock vs Renzo Gracie is an interesting matchup (if it actually happens). I for one am excited to see it. It’s a better fight on paper than anything that aired on Spike last night. Though it will likely pale in comparison to the UFC event that will run the week before it on Super Saturday.
I don’t understand the mentality of someone being a UFC fan and a UFC fan only. Are you an MMA fan or not? Or you like MMA but only if its in the UFC? If it’s not UFC it’s stupid or a bad concept or a crappy copy of the UFC. The same thing goes for people that feel if it’s not Pride it’s crap. From 2001 until very recently Zuffa owned UFC was a crappy copy of Pride. But look at UFC now. It’s doing phenomenal business, it has possibly the most competitive weight class in the sport at 170 and a ton of buzz. At this time in 2008 IFL could have that or some other group. How about you let these guys get on TV and run a couple shows before you bury them. Showtime does a great job with boxing. Better than HBO the past two years. Let’s see how they do with MMA.
After being a wrestling fan for over two decades, I can completely understand this mentality. I see it all the time (and I mean all the time) with WWE fans who swear by WWE and no one else, to the point that WWE is wrestling to them and nothing else is. Doesn’t matter if you present a viable, legitimate alternative, if it’s not WWE they won’t accept it. The same thing is happening with UFC now.
Another thing that we shouldn’t forget is: What about Frank Shamrock’s “exclusive seven-figure contract” with “The World Fighter”? Yes, it seems that they’re in trouble before they even started, with Cesar Gracie pulling out as matchmaker a few weeks back, but Frank himself stated that he signed a contract with them, so why has he signed with Elite now? I don’t know, but it seems to me that he’s slowly becoming MMA’s version of Sabu. Only more erratic and with a bigger mouth…
15 second time limit on the ground? Sorry folks but this is not MMA. It’s closer to San-Shou. How can we possibly get excited about a Shamrock vs. Gracie fight when there isn’t going to be any ground aspect to the fight? I’m sorely disappointed by this approach.
I know the Mississippi commission has a reputation for being promoter-friendly, but if they allow this to be added to the Unified rules that are in place… that would be a very bad move. Now I see why the show is in MS and not in TN, because I seriously doubt the Tennessee commission would allow that.
15 seconds on the ground is a terrible idea. How the hell is Renzo supposed to compete with that kind of restriction? And more broadly, as Will noted, this isn’t MMA.
Frankly, this is what happens when boxing promoters try to get involved with MMA. A fine example of what MMA fans have been worried about. These people still don’t get the ground game. I’m surprised that BJ Penn’s brother, of all people, would go along with this.
Sherdog, “When asked about Elite XC’s planned use of a 15-second time limit when fights hit the ground, Shaw replied: “In the referee’s judgment if there’s zero action we’ll stand ‘em up.â€
Looks like they get stood up after 15 seconds of inactivity.
Yea Im assuming they mean 15 seconds of doing nothing rather than the PRIDE mentaltiy of ok lets give them five minutes and see if they will finally do somehting on the ground..ahem…Arona…ahem Filho….ahem…. People jump to wayyy too many conclusions.
Also that WWE mentality that Zach brought up is soooo acurate But at the same time sooooo stupid. Just because people do it doesnt make it right…ahem…MMA critic…ahem…..
Even if they mean 15 seconds of inactivity, there will still be problems, guaranteed. Especially when you consider that inactivity is completely subjective. Given the state of the MMA refs we currently have to endure I can’t help but think this is going to be a disaster. Attempts to inhibit the ground game will do nothing but negatively effect the final product. I wonder if they are going to try to book Matt Lindland or other former wrestlers if they plan to curb the strengths of grapplers. Also, don’t the promoters realize that the ground game is what helps make MMA so much safer than boxing? To take away options from fighters in order to force what is perceived as a “more exciting” stand up fight is to drastically increase the likelyhood of serious injury.
Read the news before responding to it please, Arnold. Fujita vs. Mayfield had nothing to do with inactivity. What EXC are going to do is basically what IFL is already doing. It CAN work just fine, depending on COMPETENT REFEREES.
I will wait to see how they handle the ground fighting before I pass judgment.
1. If a fighter has half guard and they stand him up because of inactivity, then it isn’t MMA. If it is a complete stalemate in guard, that is a different thing. A time limit for ground fighting is a horrible idea though. Whether it be for how long they are on the ground, or for how active they are. Let a competant ref decide instead based on how the flow of the fight is going.
I think what will be interesting is how many times the ref will break it up when somebody is in side mount, and even full mount. I can just hear all the knowledgeable MMA fans groaning through their television, while the live audience cheers.
I read the news. There’s not a lot of difference between this gimmick and gimmicks in past freak show MMA fights with a similar time limit rule. Fujita had to pull out a crazy choke hold in order to win his fight, a standing submission if I’m not mistaken.
“Fujita had to pull out a crazy choke hold in order to win his fight, a standing submission if I’m not mistaken.”
And in EliteXC people won’t have to do that. The rules for Mayfield – Fujita had nothing to do with inactivity, but time spent on ground period. In reality, the EXC rule, from what we know so far, is a lot closer to the rules already in place in UFC, IFL etc; than it is to what PRIDE had for that fight. There are already regulations allowing the referree to stand fighters up because of inactivity, and all we know so far is EXC will put a time-limit on it, as opposed to having varied ref judgements decide for how long inactivity will be allowed to go on. Again, the clue to whether this rule can be a positive or not depends on further information about it’s excact wording and the referee’s understanding of what is actual stalling and what is slow progression that only looks like stalling to an untrained eye.
Yeah Fujita got that hapless boxer(who was a last minute replacement for that old boxer whos name i forget, was it Tooney?) in a standing head and arm choke that didn’t look all that tight. It was a sad fight and a crummy rule as most of the fight is spent getting the fighters back up and restarting them. It should be up to the promotions, but i think that if control is gained after a takedown the fighters should be warned every 10-15 seconds to get moving in one of three ways(improve position/go for submission/raining heavy blows) after 2 warnings a stand up. 30-45 sec total mat time is plenty of time to start setting up strikes, superior position or subs.
Oh, and Renzo was robbed in his fight with Newton, he clearly won that one. I predict Renzo wins while not suffering much damage in part II.
Frank is sad these days, he made a bad decision leaving seg ufc and now he seems content to exist only in the pale shadow that remains of his bro’s gracie fued. I remember when he”came out of his brother Ken’s shadow” too bad he wasn’t able to create anything on his own during that time. For all his talk this just shows his limited imagination and inability to map out new territory on his own. Remember his Shootbox? i’m surprised Wand and the rest of Chutebox didn’t give him a beating for that one.
I cannot believe Frank shamrock is mainevent, lets be real he is a businessman not a fighter. That is why he is going after Gracies instead of strikers. He would not be able to stand with any of the top fighters Vanderlai Silva, Mirko Cro Cop, Chuck Liddel, or even a rich franklin.
If Frank was the best of the best why would he waste his time with Phil Baroni. To be main event you have to not duck anyone, full respect given to Renzo to take this fight, The rules do not suit Renzo but unlike frank he is prepared to fight anyone. Frank has no excuses its about time he steps up and fights a top MMA contender
It is nice to see some women fighters. When watching women fight I find they want to prove themselves in a man’s sport, hence there can be some really good fights