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« | Home | »

Make the case to me why fighters shouldn’t be suspended for weed usage

By Zach Arnold | February 9, 2012

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Best arguments in the comments section will be copied into this post. Renato Laranja was not available for comment, but we know his prior comments to Joe Rogan last year:

“You smoke so much weed, you have glaucoma. … They make you act like a psycho. How are you going to argue with that?”

“You want Nick Diaz and all those guys who smoke reefer and you want those guys in the UFC. You’re afraid to have a clean athlete.”

The debate about whether or not marijuana should be considered a PED is not new. In fact, it was asked when Nick Diaz got suspended in Nevada after fighting Takanori Gomi. The question’s just being asked anew after Nick got busted for weed again.

Unlike Nick’s suspension last time, this one is getting a hell of a lot more attention.

The most amazing thing about these drug test failures lately (Nick, King Mo) is that it’s Barney Fife Kizer who’s catching guys. Not California, not the Voluntary Anti-Doping Association… Keith Kizer.

Luke Thomas:

Absolutely not. It’s only tested because it’s insanely labeled a Scheduled I drug. No known P.E. effects. More importantly, urinalysis only tells you THAT someone used, not WHEN. Testing for THC doesn’t keep fighters safe or healthy. It’s insanity.

E. Casey Leydon:

For (an) actual fight, yes. You can’t fight ‘high’. During training, you should have every right to light up. Same rules as alcohol.

Josh Campbell:

If they could test & ensure it wasn’t smoked/ingested within a safe amount of time prior to a fight & the fighter declared use, I say OK.

MMA Supremacy:

Just to clarify, what Dana & Lorenzo are saying internally are NOT the words ‘beyond disappointed.’ A little more vulgar and angry.

The one winner in this story — the man who said it was coming yesterday, Brian Vincent Kennedy McMahon.

Topics: MMA, Media, UFC, Zach Arnold | 127 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |

127 Responses to “Make the case to me why fighters shouldn’t be suspended for weed usage”

  1. jbiskofski says:

    Make the case why it should.

    Its not performance enhancing, its not harmful to you, its not addictive, its not illegal in many places.

    The only real bad thing about it is its not socially accepted… if you happen to live in a society of by retarded, transgender zebras.

    • Beau Dure says:

      I know a doctor who would disagree. And an addict or two.

    • Sundog says:

      It’s illegal. I win!

    • Kpinkne says:

      To start this nonsense. Somebody with some cold hard facts should explain to everybody in north America why mArijuana is within the schedule 1 category ( a class reserved for the most dangerous drugs). Within this class marijuana’s neighbors include LSD, heroin, ecstasy and ghb. All the while schedule 3 drugs include anabolic steroids, codeine, hydrocodone, ketamine. There is no evidence backing up the fact the weed why weed is listed as a schedule 1 drug. I don’t know about where you guys come from but in the Midwest we aren’t having rehabilitation facilities filled with pot smokers, we actually have problems with kids ingesting legal narcotics and hard, mind altering drugs. ……… But that’s fine I hope my physician goes home and ingests a prescription cock tail and washes it down with a nice cold beer. While he nods in and out of consciousness. Why some are legally f@$&ing their brains up, we’ll just sit on the couch and burn one…….. Maybe order a pizza. Does that change who we are? Are we less valuable because a scientist makes what you use for recreation and we get our off the plant outback?……….seems fucked up America.

  2. Fluyid says:

    Uh……… let’s see…..

    If you have a doctor’s prescription for it then you’re presumably taking it as a necessary medicine, just like with testosterone.

    • RST says:

      Oh indeed.

      And thats as big of a BS justification as that TRT scam.

      I hope your not suggesting that since we’ve got one absurd backdoor that needs closing that we might as well open another.

      • edub says:

        To be fair Marijuana is not a PED.

        • RST says:

          I agree, not in the sense of steroids and stuff.

          Thats would be extremely misleading to lump pot in with TRT scumbags.

          But PED’s aren’t the only things that shouldn’t be allowed in the cage with you.

      • Robert Poole says:

        So just curiously, would you condemn a fighter if they were prescribed vicodin to deal with pain post-fight? Marijuana and TRT are totally different issues. The only argument against it that makes any sense is that it is currently illegal and Nick should have known better.

        We can argue all day about the idiocy of the illegality of marijuana but if you know you’ll get popped for it, you act smarter and wait awhile to use it. Nick Diaz however is not that smart a fellow which is why he keeps getting busted.

        And just for the record, I think weed being illegal is stupid and the ONLY reason for it is that drug companies are f’ing terrified of what having that widely available would do to their drug sales… since Congress is their bought and paid for enforcement group, weed will never be legal.

  3. mossrocket says:

    from all peer reviewed studies i’ve read, Marijuana is a mild vasilodator (which means it dilates blood vessels) and has a similar effect for fighters as many post workout energy drink/supplements.
    But as it doesn’t include the hundreds of weird chemicals that seem to get lots of fighters in trouble (Cyborg, King Mo, for example) it should be cleared for use as a natural supplement…

  4. 45 Huddle says:

    This is America!!! If you want to go into a fight impaired, you have a god given right to.

    WAR DIAZ!!

    That’s all I got. I am a pro weed guy. I haven’t smoked in over 10 years and have no intentions to ever again. But I think it should be legalized. With that said, athletes should not have it in their system when they are competing, legal or not.

    • 45 Huddle says:

      I should also add that fans are too caught up on this PED thing because of white Keith Kizer has said in the past. While I think Kizer has a point…. It negate the real issue.

      That mainly weed is a drug of abuse. And drugs of abuse are tested just like PED’s, and should not be in the athletes systems during competition.

      WAR DIAZ!!

  5. Jason Harris says:

    Look at the banned substance list:
    NAC 467.850 Administration or use of alcohol, stimulants, drugs or injections; urinalysis or chemical tests; disciplinary action. (NRS 467.030)

    1. The administration of or use of any:

    (a) Alcohol;

    (b) Stimulant; or

    (c) Drug or injection that has not been approved by the Commission, including, but not limited to, the drugs or injections listed in subsection 2,

    Ê in any part of the body, either before or during a contest or exhibition, to or by any unarmed combatant, is prohibited.

    2. The following types of drugs, injections or stimulants are prohibited pursuant to subsection 1:

    (a) Afrinol or any other product that is pharmaceutically similar to Afrinol.

    (b) Co-Tylenol or any other product that is pharmaceutically similar to Co-Tylenol.

    (c) A product containing an antihistamine and a decongestant.

    (d) A decongestant other than a decongestant listed in subsection 4.

    (e) Any over-the-counter drug for colds, coughs or sinuses other than those drugs listed in subsection 4. This paragraph includes, but is not limited to, Ephedrine, Phenylpropanolamine, and Mahuang and derivatives of Mahuang.

    • Jason Harris says:

      So, you can’t have alcohol (which is legal), stimulants, decongestants, over the counter cold medicines….

      Those are all legal for use in the world, but not competition. Being an athlete, you know what you’re allowed to have in your system for a fight, Diaz knew full well, and screwed up.

      The comments sections of most MMA Blogs have turned into a “OMG LEGALIZE IT” fest, but the fact is, it’s banned and he knew it was banned. You can’t just ignore rules because you don’t like them. A fighter can’t go in and start stomping people’s faces because he thinks that rule shouldn’t be there, and he can’t go in with banned substances.

      I don’t see why anyone is having a hard time understanding this.

      • Chuck says:

        “A fighter can’t go in and start stomping people’s faces because he thinks that rule shouldn’t be there, and he can’t go in with banned substances.

        I don’t see why anyone is having a hard time understanding this.”

        Remember the first Wes Sims-Frank Mir fight? Ah, good times! Or how about Jon Jones-Matt Hamill with the illegal elbow shots? Ah, good times! I absolutely agree with your viewpoint.

      • The comments sections of most MMA Blogs have turned into a “OMG LEGALIZE IT” fest, but the fact is, it’s banned and he knew it was banned. You can’t just ignore rules because you don’t like them.

        Yep. Which is what makes Nick Diaz such an idiot in this instance. Let’s not let this discussion misconstrue the fact that he completely shit the bed on this one.

      • edub says:

        The problem is all those other things mentioned leave your system rather quickly. You could not have smoked marijuana in a week, and it could show up in your system (and that’s a highly conditioned lighter individual). Nobody is saying that you should be able to be under the influence of it during the fight.

      • Chromium says:

        @Jason Harris: Zach Arnold is asking us whether it should be legalized, not whether or not Nick Diaz used good judgment. You are using a strawman argument.

        Furthermore, things like alcohol are only banned for the day of the actual fight. I think almost everyone is fine with weed being banned the day of the actual fight. That’s not how it’s being tested. Diaz could have stopped smoking two weeks prior to the fight and it would still be in his system. That’s the general point of contention here: should weed be considered a banned substance or should it be considered no different from alcohol: as long as you aren’t stoned during the fight or the day of, you should not be penalized for it.

        • Nottheface says:

          Under the NSAC weed is prohibited for in-competition use but is not banned out-of-competition. The problem is the test can’t distinguish when he used (and it detects for very low metabolite levels) so Diaz, who has a medical prescription to use and is not banned from using marijuana out of competition by the NSAC is going to be punished for testing positive no matter when he last used. All of that strikes me as strangely incongruent.

        • 45 Huddle says:

          If it’s in your system, is it still effecting you? That’s the big question. But it’s also splitting hairs at that point.

          It’s easier for everybody to just say don’t have it in your system come fight time.

          The alternative is to try to figure out when they smoked and what the levels are in their system. Way too much work.

        • Jason Harris says:

          There’s no strawman argument here, there’s no defense for what Diaz did because it’s part of his job to show up without weed in his system, and he failed at it. Period. Dude’s been a pro fighter for over a decade and can’t seem to figure it out.

          It’s banned the same way that alcohol is, the commission shouldn’t have to bend over backwards to come up with a special test so Diaz can smoke up a week out from the fight instead of the day of the fight. They test how they test, if you want to fight as a career then you lay off the bong for a few weeks leading up to the fight. The same way guys diet hardcore, and don’t drink, and cut lots of water weight…it’s called discipline.

          If Diaz doesn’t have the discipline to stop smoking long enough for the test that they run to not show it, then, he’s an idiot. Period. Why exactly should the NSAC give him a special test so he can go up to the last possible minute getting high before fight time?

  6. 45 Huddle says:

    And as pissed of as Dana White might be….

    1) He has himself to blame for constantly giving Diaz preferential treatment after knowing his track record.

    2) Will never cut him because as much as he is a HUGE pain to the UFC, he is not a guy they will want to give to Bellator. So they will wait out the suspension, giving him a fight 4 months later…. probably not a fight that will even get him to a title shot, and by then 18 months will have passed before he can even be discussed as a contender again.

    • Mark says:

      I don’t think it matters if Bellator gets him.

      #1 He’s going to be in the same trouble unless they only have him fight overseas or in non-commission states. But they set themselves up for some awful PR if they did that. And if he does fight in regulated states, he’s still going to be failing drug tests.

      #2 He didn’t do anything for PRIDE’s buyrate, EliteXC’s ratings and wasn’t the level of ratings grabber Fedor, Gina or Walker were for Strikeforce. Is Bellator going to get huge because they’ve got Nick Diaz? Doubtful.

      If I was Dana I’d give him an ultimatum to go to rehab, submit to random testing for 1 year, or be fired. And wouldn’t sweat him working elsewhere.

      • Jason Harris says:

        UFC is going to wait and see.

        Odds are, Diaz is out for a year. So after a year, they wait and see. How is Diaz acting? How are the fans acting?

        MMA fans are fickle, not fighting for a year basically means you don’t exist. If he still manages to keep heat, maybe they’ll give him another chance. If people have moved on and lost interest, they’ll probably give him the boot.

  7. RST says:

    Is it a PED?

    It could be if you were high DURING a fight.

    It does alter your mood, perception and make you slightly numb.

    Of course you would assume that being stoned off your gourd would negate any advantages.

    But that doesn’t necessarily apply to everybody.

    why do they test for it?

    Maybe to make sure some nitwit doesn’t try to climb in a cage wasted and hurt themselves or someone else.

    What if some guy slapped on an armbar and was so out of it he didn’t notice a tap?

    They test you for it when you apply for a job at wallmart.

    Its none of anybodies business what Diaz does in his free time, off the job, in his own living room IMO.

    But that doesn’t excuse him from the necessity of scheduling his personal interests around the demands of his job, not the other way around.

    Just like everybody else.

    And how droll that the screeching twerps are now desperately switching their anger to the rules and federal law as Diaz continues to mess the bed in accumulative fashion.

  8. Clay says:

    Why are all the pro weed comments about trying to explain that it doesn’t enhance his game during fight?? Why is only his time in the cage being looked at? Maybe he can train like a beserker because he can go home and get stoned on a drug that is used for pain therapy? Maybe he survives training injuries because he is stoned during training? Maybe its not an enhancer but it sure as hell allows anyone to train through the wear and tear on your body during training.

    • RST says:

      “Maybe he can train like a beserker because he can go home and get stoned on a drug that is used for pain therapy?”

      Thats an interesting thought.

      I wonder what the hippies would think about their backdoor agenda (heehee, backdoor agenda) being compared to popping percocets.
      :)

      • Mark says:

        The difference is the opiates in painkillers that they test for are not in your system for more than 3 days, but THC is in your system 14-60 days. So if a guy has a bunch of opiates in his sample, you know he has used painkillers in the past few days, but marijuana could be used when you’re on vacation between fight camps and still show up.

        So Nick Diaz should call BALCO about making a designer THC that won’t show up in tests.

    • The Gaijin says:

      It’s not banned out of competition, so that is irrelevant.

    • spacedog says:

      Fighters do train like berserkers and go home and pop pain pills. It’s (sorta) legal and it’s common.

  9. Zach Arnold says:

    http://www.facebook.com/fight.opinion/posts/324705000906088

    If you’re on FB, feel free to comment on our discussion about this topic over there (as well as here, too).

    For those wondering why comments are getting stuck in the moderation queue… our site has been spammed at a very high rate the last couple of days and the filter is working overtime, so please be patient and let the filter work itself out. Thanks.

  10. EJ says:

    I don’t have a problem with weed or fighters using it, I was one of the loudest voices taking Kizer to task over the Diaz-Gomi overturning. But Diaz has run out of excuses and justifications since this is his third strike he’s basically the Josh Barnett of weed.

    Dana has no one to blame but himself for this like i’ve said before and Diaz needs to go away for a long time and either retire or take mma seriously. Can you imagine how this would have blown up in the UFC’s face if he would have won?. After the UFC bent over backwards to please Nick and his nonsense he test positive in his biggest fight ever.

    I’m just glad that we can now turn the page and worry about real pro fighters not guys who are about everything but being the best. Bring on Condit vs. GSP, and hopefully Dana and company will finally have woken up and gotten over their Nick Diaz obssession.

    • david m says:

      Josh Barnett of weed = good comment.

    • RST says:

      “…he’s basically the Josh Barnett of weed.”

      Hehe

      Except that Diaz has never sat there and bald faced lied about it over and over to anybody and everybody who would waste their time listening.

      Diaz is still a better man that barnett is IMO.

      A stoned and childish man, and yet still the better one.

    • Mark says:

      Diaz has run out of excuses and justifications since this is his third strike he’s basically the Josh Barnett of weed.

      ^This.

      The definition of an addict is someone who lets a substance cause big problems in his life and still can’t stop it. It doesn’t matter what it is. Evan Tanner let alcoholism sidetrack his career, Karo Parisyan allowed (presumably legally prescribed) prescription painkillers ruin his. And most people online agreed they needed to go away from the sport until they cleaned up when their stories broke, so I fail to see how Diaz is any different than Tanner or Parisyan.

      Actually, Diaz may be worse than either of them. He has backed out of fights due to knowing he can’t pass a test, had the biggest win of his career nullified because of marijuana, and most people assume his spotty history of making appointments and flights on time is due to marijuana abuse. So whether or not marijuana is physically addicting doesn’t matter. He’s letting a substance ruin his career.

  11. King Famous says:

    Rules are rules. I’m still trying to figure out why mma is judged by boxing standards. If I played Chess using Checker’s rules everyone would be confused too.

    If the paper says no weed, then no weed. Let him sit out, get a break, and come back to fight.

    Nick Diaz is one of the best and most entertaining fighters in the world, and I will always watch him fight.

  12. You can’t and shouldn’t be allowed to be high during a fight for the same reasons that you can’t and shouldn’t be allowed to fight drunk. It does numb you and impairs your reaction time, putting you in danger. As for training? Everything I know about it, it should be allowed. It’s not going to increase recovery time like steroids do. I find the argument that the only way he can train hard is by toking up afterwards to be a bit odd and specious. And hey, if he has a prescription, more power to him. But here’s the question: is there a way to know from a urine test whether someone got high that day or yesterday or the day before? If there isn’t, then sorry, it needs to stay on the list. If there is, then Hell, take it off.

    BUT…as was said above, Nick knew about this and blew it. This is on him. Everyone crying about it being unfair? Dude’s been through this before and has spoken about what he does to avoid pissing hot. Which means he doesn’t have an excuse, not even for himself, so you shouldn’t be providing one either. The bottom line is that Nick had a very minor responsibility and he shirked it, and when you do that, there’s consequences.

    (Also, please don’t give me the “he needs it for his ADHD!” jive. We all know that medical marijuana use is a nice step in the right direction towards legalization, but if you think that shit’s helping Nick Diaz medically and that he’s only nuts WITHOUT it, I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn.)

    • edub says:

      Marijuana actually does help plenty of people with anxiety issues. If those are really helping I don’t know, but I do know there’s a lot of evidence that he’d be a prime candidate for it.

      • RST says:

        It just makes my friend paranoid.

        ;)

      • Know what helps more with anxiety? Actual anxiety medication that’s clinically proven and specifically designed to do so.

        Also, he was smoking weed when he went on the lam for that press conference last Fall, no?

        I know what you’re saying, I’m just saying.

        • edub says:

          So what happens when actual anxiety medication does not work, or inhibits your daily life in some way? A lot of people prefer weed to zoloft and other medications becauuse of their side effects.

    • RST says:

      “…is there a way to know from a urine test whether someone got high that day or yesterday or the day before?”

      Good question.

      I get the impression that they just test for levels.

      So if you smoked a joint yesterday, and Nick Diaz has been sweating out a kilo for 8 days it would look the same.

  13. edub says:

    The amount of people here (and everyone else as a matter of fact) actually trying to push marijuana as a performance enhancing drug because of it’s pain relieving properties is insane.

    I feel like people say reefer madness, and are walking around thinking it makes you superman.

    Unreal.

    • Nottheface says:

      Perhaps they’re stoned? It’s the only explanation I can think of.

    • RST says:

      I would say its definitely a performance ALTERING substance.

      And that the potential for performance enhancement might be there depending on the individual.

      Some guys might not get the weirded out lazy effects as much as the calming and numbing effects for instance.

      Either way I dont think it would be fair to go in there altered from your natural state of mind or body by a controlled substance.

      • edub says:

        You shouldn’t be.

        But how many things like energy drinks, n02 products, pain killers with a prescription, and other type of herbal remedies (no pun intended) can you use when going into the cage?

        • RST says:

          I dont know.

          Can you go in the cage hopped up on pain killers even with a script?

          If you needed pain killers in your system I would think that you wouldn’t be in condition to honestly pass your physical.

          So there would be no legitimate circumstance for that to happen.

          And I would assume thats why they also test for those and thats how Karo got popped.

          I guess someone could chug a bunch of energy drinks or something right before the fight.

          But that would probably just make you puke.

          :)

        • edub says:

          -Anderson did against Okami, however that was UFC sanctioned. I don’t have any other examples off the top of my head.

          -While technically true, we know fighters lie at their physicals all the time. That’s why info comes out all the time about this guy had a cracked bone here, this guy had a separated shoulder there.

          -Karo wasn’t being prescribed them anymore though at the time he failed.

          -(Just playing devils advocate again) But what if they didn’t puke. Why would MJ be anymore of a PE then red bull?

        • Chuck says:

          “But how many things like energy drinks, n02 products, pain killers with a prescription, and other type of herbal remedies (no pun intended) can you use when going into the cage?”

          Shane Mosley got a judge to ban Fernando Vargas (and Mosley by extension) from drinking Gatorade in-between rounds for their second fight. The result? Well, Vargas didn’t fight as well as he did in the first fight (Mosley won both fights by TKO. First fight was very good and close though). So there is that. Could have been a coincidence though.

          Whenever I drink/drank Gatorade for wrestling or judo practice, it helps me at first but it does burn me out pretty quickly (an adrenaline dump as they call it. I usually call it BS). Energy drinks can be the death of you if you had it, like, an hour before you compete. I suffered that fate once or twice in high school wrestling years ago.

        • edub says:

          Points taken.

          Although I think Moseley beat his ass the second time more because he realized he was fighting a past his prime Vargas, and didn’t give him as much respect.

        • Jason Harris says:

          I posted the banned substance list, but the short answer to your question is not many.

        • But how many things like energy drinks, n02 products, pain killers with a prescription, and other type of herbal remedies (no pun intended) can you use when going into the cage?

          Not many. Remember what Karo got busted for? Also, depending on the Commission, there’s rules about what you’re allowed to drink in the arena and on the way to the ring. So while not EXPLICITLY prohibited and categorized, technically, the energy drinks are banned at the site of the fight.

        • edub says:

          I was under the impression karo did not have a prescription for the meds, or either didn’t inform the commission of its use.

      • Mark says:

        And I would assume thats why they also test for those and thats how Karo got popped.

        Speaking of Karo: where was this passionate defense of him when he failed his drug test for painkillers? Or James Irvin? All I remember was “Karo/James has a drug problem.” Nobody was even trying to find out if either of them had a doctor (quack or not) prescribing this to them. They were pretty much treated online the same way guys getting busted for PEDs are.

    • 45 Huddle says:

      I don’t think they are insane at all.

      The people pushing for the legaization of weed use that very talking point. Which is that it helps with the pain and anxiety.

      • The Gaijin says:

        You sound like a grey haired U.S. congressmen talking about the internet.

        • 45 Huddle says:

          Wrong.

          I am for the legalization (not just decriminalization) of weed on a FEDERAL level.

          As for sports, fighters should be clean of drugs during competition.

          Hardly sound like a congressman.

      • edub says:

        You’re aren’t very informed on the subject, and have already made your mind up on what should be the outcome.

        So in the end you don’t have an intelligent opinion on the subject.

        • 45 Huddle says:

          http://www.medicalmarijuanablog.com/card/vermont-258.html

          One of the ways to get it in VT is to say you need it for pain relief.

          http://www.medicalmarijuanablog.com/card/new-mexico-256.html

          In New Mexico, it can be for severe chronic pain.

          http://www.medicalmarijuanablog.com/state-laws/california.html

          In California, you can get it for persistent muscle spasms.

          Shall I go on and continue to make you look foolish?

          One of the ways weed has been legalized for medical purposes has been sold on the fact that it helps people with pain relief. Even the PRO WEED websites tout these facts.

          Ill informed my #ss. I’ve provided back-up….

        • The Gaijin says:

          The problem is no one can tell what exactly your point is, so you look foolish. And LOL at you “schooling” him – what are you schooling him on? That people use weed for chronic pain?!?! You do know there’s a big difference between chronic pain and acute pain caused by trauma like getting punched in the lips, right?

          You look foolish because you keep babbling like a retard that having weed in your system (NOT being high during the fight) gives fighters some super power that makes them impervious to punches. Just like your awesomely hilarious “cortisone shots aren’t allowed because they don’t want fighters not being able to feel punches”.

          You’ve just continued to illustrate that you’re really f**king ill-informed or just plain stupid because you’ve got information in front of you and you still can’t figure it out. Please go on and continue to make yourself look foolish though.

        • 45 Huddle says:

          The Gaijin,

          Have you been hanging out with Nick Diaz too much?

          First you have a hard to understanding what I said in a conversation lower down on this page…. And now you are “quoting” me on a word I have never said.

          So who is the one “babbling like a retard” now?

          Put the weed down man.

          My point of view is very simple.

          1) Legalize weed on a federal level.

          2) Weed should be tested for in competition. Whether it’s a PED or drug of abuse doesn’t really concern me. i think it’s both, but we can all say it’s at least one. It can alter an athletes state, and has no business in competition. All of the organizations agree with this point.

        • The Gaijin says:

          No, not at all. Actually, your point is all over the place as you just throw a million arguments up and constantly move your goalposts. Not to mention your babbling comment about MMA Fighting is just so poorly constructed that apparently only you can decipher what it was you were trying to say.

          Everything I attributed to you, you’ve said. And putting “schooling” in quotes wasn’t quoting you, I was laughing at your attempt to “school” him with this run down of weed is a pain drug therefore its use and “PED” effect extends to all pain and should be banned.

        • 45 Huddle says:

          My points have not been all over the place. I’ve countered what others have said, but my basic premise has not changed at all.

          Heck, if you can’t figure out what I said after I even broke it down for you, nothing I can do about that. It was pretty clear…..

        • The Gaijin says:

          Good for you. In one comment you managed to distill down what your arguments/stances were for that comment. Go look at the rest of your comments in the last three threads since yesterday because they are many and they are all over the map – but hey, throw enough at the wall and see what sticks.

        • 45 Huddle says:

          I know what I have said.

          You are confusing posts that talk about my reasoning vs. my beliefs. Two totally different things. Doesn’t mean I’m all over the place.

        • edub says:

          Chronic pain does not equal pain during a fight (this should be common sense). Nor do any of those articles show any support for your belief that weed could enhance someone’s performance before a fight.

          On top of that you change your argument routinely from diaz didn’t need it at all, to he’s using it for pain use.

          You continue to be all over the place with your opinions to try and win debates. It never works, and it certainly isn’t working here.

          You are the only one that looks foolish here.

        • 45 Huddle says:

          How do you reduce chronic pain? You find something to numb your body up.

          And of course there is nothing about taking weed for fighting. Why would there be? It’s such a tiny subset of the weed discussion.

        • edub says:

          Sorry man, the thought that medications attack getting punched in the face pain, and having cancer pain the same way is no where near intelligent.

      • Stel says:

        I have an idea 45 babble,
        grab a finger and dislocate it, ouch hurts doesn’t it? Feel the pain and make a note about how painful it is, then eat a couple vicodins, 1 hour after make a note of how you feel. Use the 1-10 system if you’ld like.

        Next month, grab a different finger and dislocate it, ouch hurts doesn’t it? Feel the pain and make a note about how painful it is, then smoke a joint, again making a note of how you feel 1 hour after.

        So find out for yourself whats going on by experiencing it first hand, until them you should keep your babble to yourself.

  14. RST says:

    I think we’ve gotten off track here fellas (I’m just as guilty), we’re supposed to be making the case why fighters SHOULDN”T be suspended.

    lets see…

    Weed is legal in california.

    And california being the most progressive and forward thinking bubble of air in the world has had the foresight before everyone else, as usual, to understand and accept that marijuana is a perfectly natural and organic herbal medicine.

    Like green tea.

    They dont suspend fighters for drinking green tea do they.

    • Chuck says:

      It’s only legal in California for medicinal purposes, not recreational use. And it’s still a federal crime to use and posses marijuana so the Feds can still shut down medicinal marijuana shops at their behest. And as others said it is something of a numbing agent, which is useful to dull pain. How much pain it does dull is the question though.

  15. Megatherium says:

    I think the Diaz kid needs to start drnkin’ and poppin’ benzos to control his nerves like a real red blooded American that’s what I think.

    • Mark says:

      That’s what Vince McMahon recommends. I recall a story a wrestler once told Wade Keller of him chewing out a tag team who failed a test for marijuana. He asked why they wanted to smoke marijuana and they told him it helped their back pains after a match. Vince said “Haven’t you two ever heard of pills and whisky? That’s how we do things in the WWF.” Of course they’ve also had deaths due to this practice.

  16. [...] Diaz, Zach Arnold of Fight Opinion challenges his readers to argue against suspension for marijuana [...]

  17. 45 Huddle says:

    I just thought of the $1 Million question.

    Does Nick Diaz get his PPV bonus now?

    I wonder how the UFC contract is structured, but I wouldn’t be shocked if a positive test results in the loss of the PPV dollars. And if this is the case, it’s going to be an all out war at the Gracie camp internally.

    • Mark says:

      That is a very good question, 45.

      I see Dana being vindictive and withholding it, causing Diaz & associates to sue. And I think a judge would probably give it to him unless there’s something in his contract stating a positive drug test will void the bonus deal.

      But if Nick was on Dana’s good side I am sure he’d get some money and told to keep it quiet. You know Sean Sherk got his UFC 73 money.

      • RST says:

        “But if Nick was on Dana’s good side…”

        oh…

        OH…

        As long as Diaz’ name is hip on twitter, he’s on Dana’s good side.

        Fertitta is now also on twitter and says that as soon as Diaz is off suspension… again… that he’s back in the UFC and probably shunted right back into another title fight.

        Because he’s a “real” fighter.

        Old farts trying to be young again on twitter is creepy, embarrassing and a plain old fashioned shame.

        I dont think we’ll have to wait very long for the 911 call to come get Dana who has passed out from inhaling whippets at justin beiber’s house.

        • Mark says:

          Of course they want him to come back. But are they going to go out on a limb and pay him a million dollars and make it look like they are rewarding a drug abuser? Fox wouldn’t like that. And especially since Diaz seems like the kind of guy who’d blab about it to the media.

          Interviewer: “How are you holding up financially during your suspension.”

          Diaz: “Man, I’m f—in’ good, homie. F—in’ Dana just gave me a million f—in’ dollars to f—in’ live on ’til I f—in’ get back f—in’ fightin’.”

  18. Alan Conceicao says:

    So, does this mean we can get Ellenberger/Condit II?

    • RST says:

      I was just reading Fowlkes twitter deal and someone asked that question.

      He mentions Hendricks or the winner of Diego/Ellenberger.

      He says that these fights dont generate heat right now, but catering to hyenas aside I think those both sound like great fights.

      Funny thought:

      If Sanchez won and fought Condit, it would be jacksons vs jackson vs jacksons.

      • Alan Conceicao says:

        They don’t, but you gave this guy a belt to parade around with for a reason, right? At least use it for a Fox card or a feature bout on a bigger PPV.

        • 45 Huddle says:

          Condit vs. Ellenberger/Sanchez/Hendricks has FOX 4 written all over it. Gives the winner 3 months before GSP came come back.

          The fight won’t sell on PPV but makes for a great free “title” fight to give GSP a real good opponent who is better known.

  19. 45 Huddle says:

    I went to MMA Fighting and saw a really bad article. You could tell it was written to get page views, which isnt common for that website. Then I looked at the author and it didn’t shock me. It was Luke Thomas. Looks like SB Nation buying out MMA Fighting opened the door for the crap of BE to come over.

    So sad. It was a good website.

    At least there is still MMA Junkie.

    • edub says:

      Article was well informed, and had a logical opinion on the topic.

      • The Gaijin says:

        But it made sense and used logical reasoning to discuss why the current marijuana testing and rules are ridiculous and meaningless. However, 45 wants an author that spouts ill-informed opinions about topics they’ve done no research on and refuse to do, and most of all agrees with his equally uninformed and unintelligent opinion.

        WEED HELPS YOU TO NOT FEEL PUNCHES!!! EVEN WHEN YOU SMOKED IT OUT OF COMPETITION!

        • 45 Huddle says:

          1) All I have heard from people on this website is how MMA athletes should have Olympic style testing. People supported it when FMJ asked for it. They have said the AC’s should adopt it. That would include weed being outlawed. The Olympics has a no weed policy.

          2) Weed is currently illegal to use on a federal level.

          3) Even if it wasn’t illegal, no testing agency would allow athletes to have it in their system during competition. It’s not only a drug of abuse (there is no debate on that), it is also a drug that people debate on whether it is a PED. Because of the “abuse” criteria alone, it will always be illegal for athletes to have in their system during competiton, whether it’s legal or not.

          And nobody allows weed in their athletes systems. Not the Olympics. Not the NBA. Not the NFL. Not MLB. And certainly not Athletic Commissions. Are you two guys somehow smarter and better informed then all of these organizations combined? Come on!!

          How is that ill-informed?

          But somehow the MMA fans know best!! Now you are making me laugh.

        • 45 Huddle says:

          not to mention that both of you completely missed what I was saying.

          “You could tell it was written to get page views, which isnt common for that website.”

          It’s an inflammatory piece. That is something that typically stayed on BE and websites like MMA Fighting and MMA Junkie have for the most part stayed away from. It’s a shame that they have brought that JUNK style of writing over to try an increase page views.

          Read first…. Then comprehend. It will save me time.

        • The Gaijin says:

          You said, “I went to MMA Fighting and saw a really bad article. You could tell it was written to get page views, which isnt common for that website.”

          Saying it was “really bad” was not specifically or only about him writing it for page views, and if that was the point you were trying to make (which really doesn’t make sense – why was it bad?) then you need some help with your writing…you should work on that, it will save me time.

        • 45 Huddle says:

          “I went to MMA Fighting and saw a really bad article. You could tell it was written to get page views, which isnt common for that website.”

          First sentence tells you something is not good. The 2nd sentence tells you the reason why it wasn’t good.

          It’s not much more clear then that.

          Never did I discuss the topic of the article. It was the tone of the article.

          Which is later reconfirmed by:

          “Looks like SB Nation buying out MMA Fighting opened the door for the crap of BE to come over.”

          You misread what I wrote.

        • 45 Huddle says:

          Not to mention that this debate about weed is totally pointless.

          Even if weed is legalized on a federal level, it will always be tested for and not allowed to be an athletes system during competition. Just like alcohol.

          The ONLY issue here is that Nick Diaz has failed 2 tests and keeps on hitting the self destruct button.

          Everything else comes across like a bunch of Nick Diaz fanboys being butt hurt that their favorite athletes was too dumb to pass the IQ Test put in place by the AC’s.

        • The Gaijin says:

          You just write really poorly.

        • 45 Huddle says:

          I will break it down into smaller words for you next time. lol

          What I said was clear. Even when I re-read my original post, it was still clear. And when I broke it down for you by sentence, it was super duper clear.

          Go smoke some weed and relax…. Your side of the argument will never be a reality anyways. They say weed is great to cope with anxiety…. Might help you out some….

          I heard Nick Diaz knows a good dealer….

        • edub says:

          MLBPA has a specific addendum in their case that doesn’t allow the league to test for MJ.

        • The Gaijin says:

          All you did was write a hit piece comment on the article and the author.

          You didn’t say what was bad about it – you just said it was bad. You said it was written for page views. What was bad about the article itself? Just because it was written for page views doesn’t make it necessarily bad – and that is what you FAILED to link in your initial comment. Your point about it being inflammatory is to do with the page views thought, but what of the article makes it so bad? Was it not researched? Did it make ridiculous claims? Did it slander someone? Was it poorly written?

          I might as well go talk to the wall. If you’re as stupid as you seem to be given this back and forth I don’t think I have time to give you an entire high school and university education on logical reasoning and writing.

        • edub says:

          The MLB does not test for any drugs of abuse unless they have reasonable cause. Its not random like the other sports mentioned. I should have made that clear.

      • 45 Huddle says:

        edub,

        So you think a fighter should be able to have weed in his system during a fight?

        • edub says:

          No, but that’s you moving the goalposts again. If this is over luke’s article he’s clearly for testing the fighters for it, but using blood testing so u can tell if it has been used recently.

        • The Gaijin says:

          I look at things like this and tell myself I need to be doing something more constructive with my time. Not even worth the conversation if you have a guy notorious for his goalpost moving just continually changing angles to frame his argument so that it works.

          Hey, you try a million times and something is bound to stick.

        • Mark says:

          You cannot compare testing for alcohol and testing for marijuana. Especially when you’re saying in your reply to me today we shouldn’t even bother asking how much marijuana was in his system to try to judge when he took it. It’s apples and oranges

          Alcohol is in and out of your system in 24 hours. It is impossible for somebody to have drank a bunch of beers 2 weeks before a fight to get pegged as drunk in a urine test or breathalyzer test. If they test for alcohol, it means they were drunk the same day of the fight.

          Marijuana lasts 14 to 60 days to show up in urine tests. So until we get confirmation, for all we know right now Diaz last smoked marijuana 25 days before the fight. Was he able to block the pain of being punched in the face as you’ve argued if he had gone that long? It’s a difference. I’m not saying it’s enough of a difference to where he shouldn’t be suspended for it, since most jobs in sports or the real world would give any positive test punishment. But it would take it away from “Diaz uses marijuana as a performance enhancer” as talking points.

    • RST says:

      “I went to MMA Fighting…”

      That was your first mistake.

      I try not to think about how depressing it is to see fowlkes stranded on that website surrounded by so much shmuchtitude.

      (Ariels alright.)

      I try to appreciate how impressive his stamina and compassion must be.

  20. Mark says:

    I think some clarification on how much of a reading would show up on a test if he smoked that day compared to 13 days ago would be nice. They do allow some marijuana in the readings, since Alamo said in an article about the first Diaz bust Nevada allows a 15 reading and nick had 175 or so for his reading.

    So if they allow a reading to where if you’re out of competition and smoke marijuana or whatever other drug, they won’t bust you, but if you’ve got a number that shows during your training camp you were smoking they call that a failure, I don’t see why that shouldn’t be seen as fair. But they don’t really spell this out from what I see. Maybe they do to the fighters, I don’t know.

    But as for his prescription card, that’s total crap. If you’re bad off in some way where you need daily marijuana, then you probably shouldn’t be fighting, the same way if you’re hurting so bad you need Oxycodone to train, then you shouldn’t be fighting. Maybe he’s seeing some quack doctor who gives it to him for depression or something, but they disallow the use of certain antidepressants as well. Tyson couldn’t even get them to change the rule on that, and God knows he needed them.

    • 45 Huddle says:

      At the end of the day, if you legalized every single drug out there…. These sporting leagues and organizations STILL won’t want their athletes to have them in their system no matter how long ago they took them.

      That’s the bottom line. If you want to be a PROFESSIONAL ATHLETE in AMERICA…. You have to curb your recreational drug use so on competition day, you are clean.

      It’s hardly a lot to ask of these athletes.

      • 45 Huddle says:

        And what you are asking is splitting hairs. It really is.

        Stay clean and there is no issue. This is not an issue for 99% of the UFC fighters.

        • Mark says:

          I am not defending Nick. I think the guy is an addict who deserves the same scorn Josh Barnett, Evan Tanner, James Irvin, Mark Kerr and Karo Parisyan all got for letting substances harm their jobs.

          All I am asking is since they do allow some THC in the urine test, since the minimum is “15″ and not “0″, to make that clear the same way they have made PED testing clear to the public. And call it splitting hairs if you want, but I think there is a difference between a guy using before a fight (which is what your big argument has been for the past two days) and a guy using between training camps when he has a prescription card. If they made it clear that he wasn’t doing the latter, that would be useful information for this debate.

          But I am not a Diaz defender. I might be if he didn’t let his abuse ruin his career. If he showed up to events he was scheduled for, if he never had a fight decision reversed, if he never backed out of a fight fearing a drug test, if he never blew another golden opportunity, I might take the Libertarian stance of “Let the guy do what he wants in his own time.” But he is an addict, and I don’t respect addicts at all.

        • 45 Huddle says:

          I doubt there is any test that figure out the difference between:

          1) Smoking a little the day of a fight.

          2) Smoking up to a few days before a fight.

          It’s all going to show up about the same on the tests.

          Which is why I said it becomes like splitting hair at that point. Just too much work. It’s easier to just the athletes to come in below the required levels and be done with it.

        • edub says:

          Blood tests allow for a closer idea of fight time. Saliva tests are used too.

          Both would be better than using urine for MJ.

        • Mark says:

          They judged that since he had a reading of 175 when the limit was 15 that he had recently used.

          If this time he came in with a reading of 17 and still got flagged for it, then that is a difference when your argument is “he gets high to block the pain of a fight.” It makes no difference to my argument, since I am saying as a repeat offender he is classified as an addict and needs an ultimatum to clean up or leave MMA, but it’s a big difference to your argument.

          And they set the precedent for clarifying marijuana tests by coming back with clarification on his last test when Tony Alamo spoke to MMA Weekly about it. And IIRC, they called BS on another fighter who claimed his positive test was due to being around second hand smoke at a party.

        • 45 Huddle says:

          The major sports in America use urine tests. Why would AC’s use blood tests?

    • RST says:

      “Maybe he’s seeing some quack doctor who gives it to him for depression or something,…”

      I have a buddy who got a medical Marijuana card in CA, well 3-4 buddies actually, pretty much everybody I know who wants one has one, and his only medical condition is he’s kind of stupid and doesn’t like to work.

  21. Jason Harris says:

    “NSAC announces they have retooled drug testing to allow fighters to smoke marijuana up to 5 days before fight time”

    Yeah, there’s a headline that will never happen. All of this splitting hairs over just how long before the fight it was that Diaz used a banned substance is completely irrelevant. It could be an hour, it could be a week, it could be 3, the fact is, it was banned for him to have in his system when he competed, and he should have known better.

    I can only assume you guys want them to retool steroid testing to make sure of the exact date the guys took steroids? Did Chris Leben take painkillers the day of the fight, or a few days before? Can we look into the science of that test so we can make sure Leben is able to pop Oxys until the last possible moment?

    • Jason Harris says:

      The internet says that oxycodone is detectable in urine for up to 2-4 days. Anyone who’s used those pills can say you aren’t feeling anything after 4 days! Chris Leben could have popped oxys 4 days before his fight and still popped positive for a LEGAL painkiller! His suspension is bullshit! How is having oxy 4 days before the fight a PED? It’s not like he couldn’t feel the punches when Munoz beat him up!

    • Mark says:

      Nobody has said anything about steroids. Because steroids used at any point during training camp have benefits that will benefit the fighter at fight time. Painkillers and marijuana don’t unless they are used the day of the fight.

      And I only brought up painkillers because those guys were chastised online as guys with drug problems and Diaz is defended. And nobody has answered why opinion was Parisyan should have been sent away but Diaz isn’t so bad.

      • edub says:

        It was said on another site that karo (and leben for that matter) didnt have a prescription. I was also under that impression.

        However, I havent researched it.

        I think karo got more flack because he quit so many times.

  22. [...] Make the case to me why fighters shouldn’t be suspended for weed usage | Fight Opinion [...]

  23. RB says:

    If it indeed does hinder ones performance, then how fair is to to ones opponent that they don’t get the “best opponent possible”? I find it disrespectful to the other fighter that the the pot-smoking fighter deems his opponent beneath him so much that that he feels he can willfully “hinder” his ability when going into a fight with him. It’s like feeling so much contempt for your opponent that you tie 1 arm behind your back, thinking that you can kick his ass with just one arm. It’s a slap in the face.

    Why should we, the fans, not get to see the best fighter possible? I pay their wages (ultimately) and I want to watch the best fighters in the best shape (physically and mentally), and if, as you say, pot hinders performance, then I’m not seeing the best possible state that the fighter can be in.

    It’s a slap in the face to the fans as well.

    • Mark says:

      That was a joke I remember going around during the first Diaz pot bust: “If Diaz could beat the PRIDE Lightweight champ stoned out of his mind with his reflexes stunted, he should probably get another win bonus.”

    • Stel says:

      Yeah fighters should spend all their time appeasing you and what you want.
      Write a letter…
      “I want pot free fighters and I want them to inflict as much damage as possible on each other.
      Fighters should never smoke pot, it’s just not fighterly. I fear my enjoyment of the brutality may have been compromised”

  24. Kyle says:

    Wow. Lots of TLC for THC. Where was all this discussion when Melvin Guillard pissed hot for cocaine?

  25. Troy @ MMA says:

    The thing about it is that Nick has never lied or held back that he smoked reefer. I thought it was funny what Danna said since he knows what Nick is all about. I don’t think Nick would be in the UFC if he had to stop smoking reefer. Just let him do it.

  26. [...] Make the case to me why fighters shouldn’t be suspended for weed usage | Fight Opinion [...]

  27. Arturo says:

    The ufc is spending and making moves to make the organization one where the mainstream public becomes the fanbase, as well as establish credibility as an ethically centered company within the US. GOOD JOB DANA.

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