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« | Home | »

Jeff Monson asks Pat Miletich, “How can you not consider America a terror organization?”

By Zach Arnold | September 22, 2011

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A Twitter conversation between Jeff Monson and Pat Miletich, in their own words:

JEFF MONSON: The US claims to be land of freedom and democracy yet is set to veto Palestinian bid in UN to become sovereign country to appease Israel.

PAT MILETICH: Palestinians elected a terrorist org (Hamas) to run it’s affairs and you’re siding with them over Israel? Pathetic.

JEFF MONSON: It’s the Palestinian Authority going to UN to seek recognition as a state, Pat, not the Hamas. Same process Israel used in 1948.

PAT MILETICH: PA, PLO, Hamas. All under the same umbrella and dedicated 2 the destruction of Israel. You have sided with the terrorists, bud.

JEFF MONSON: Recent poll showed overwhelming majority of Israeli’s want peace with Palestinians. As always it is government perpetrating violence.

PAT MILETICH: Everyone wants peace, Jeff. How do terrorists orgs make money, Jeff? Answer is simple. By continued terrorist acts.

JEFF MONSON: How can you not consider the US a terror organization? Guatemala, Nicaragua, Panama, Indonesia, Vietnam, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. We’ve started civil wars, overthrown elected leaders, trained and funded terrorists, and presently occupy 2 countries and all in the name of money. Just cause we have tanks & not resorting to road side bombs doesn’t mean it’s not terrorism.

PAT MILETICH: No country is perfect, but ours is the best there is 2 offer. Your anti-American mentality is what our enemies like. Join ‘em.

So have the Jews, bud. You support people who hack heads off with steak knives and I support the home team. Stand where you are.

How’s your gas prices compared to the rest of the world? Most civil wars were gonna happen anyways, but good guys needed guns.

JEFF MONSON: Supporting the right for the Palestinians to be recognize is in no way supporting terrorist organizations. If you wanna learn about terror organizations read “The people’s history of the United States” by Howard Zinn. Our government is responsible for more oppresion, global poverty, and deaths than any other ‘terror’ organization could ever hope to accomplish.

PAT MILETICH: So, you’re blaming the world’s poverty on the U.S.A? You’re a joke, dude.

JEFF MONSON: To summarize, I don’t support terror organizations. You obviously support the biggest one in history with naive patriotism.

PAT MILETICH: Listen, asshole. If you don’t like your country, take a hike. Simple, bud.

You rattle on about USA being evil yet you enjoy the fight money and sponsorship our capitalism provides. Walking contradiction.

JEFF MONSON: Don’t you read any more? US corporations and banks, the IMF, and the World Bank run economies, impoverish countries, and dictate government policy. Maybe when Uncle Sam is done fucking the Palestinians at the UN he can come over to your place so you can suck his dick.

PAT MILETICH: You’re dead to me.

(Josh Barnett just popped big for his catch phrase.)

JEFF MONSON: I’m a wage slave like everyone else, just trying to do my part to change the system.

PAT MILETICH: Change the system? Why, so upstart fighters make the same wage as a pay per view vet like you? You’re a clown!

JEFF MONSON: That’s an expected response for someone that doesn’t have facts 2 what they say. Let’s catch up after you take a history class.

PAT MILETICH: I can’t figure out if you support socialism, communism, or anarchy. Honestly, I don’t think you know.

JEFF MONSON: This is what happens when you get into a debate between someone who reads and has a master’s degree in psychology & political science and… the other is a very good MMA trainer.

**

Afterwards, a troll on Twitter says to Pat, “Pat’s so short, Jeff can actually kick him to the head.” To which Pat responds, “You kidding? If Monson was an inch taller, he’d be round.”

And, now, Pat’s thoughts on Jeff…

Yeah, the truth? The truth comes from spray painting the capital w/ anarcy logo’s. Monson = fruitcake = TRUTH.

Listen, JM is pleading the cause of the terrorist org’s and our enemies. In the countries he supports he’d be hanged.

War sucks, but not fighting back sucks even worse. Ask the French. Hey, there’s a good place for Jeff.

Twitter, truly a source of entertainment.

Topics: MMA, Media, UFC, Zach Arnold | 62 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |

62 Responses to “Jeff Monson asks Pat Miletich, “How can you not consider America a terror organization?””

  1. Evolution says:

    Looks like Monson the book reader is the uninformed one in this conversation, must be reading the wrong kind of books.

    • Al says:

      Really? What did he said that isn’t accepted by 99 percent of the worlds population outside of the us and israel? Take a class junior.

      • edub says:

        99%?!?!

        Jesus, you’re just as bad as Miletich. In fact, you make him look smart.

      • RulerOne says:

        Lets start with the TRUTH. For example, The Russians & Cubans did the same exact same thing JM crys about in Latin America, Asia and on the African Continent.

        But, like you, JM fails to acknowledge such facts.

        Read a book Evol-ution!

  2. White RB says:

    You know right now there is a sad Noam Chomsky sitting by his computer really bummed out that his name didnt get dropped in this scintillating conversation. My advice to Monson: head on over to the West Bank pal, there’s an IDF bulldozer with your name on it. Full on Rachel Corrie! That will show this unjust capitalistic system what the real deal is maaaaaaaaaaaaan.

  3. krucz says:

    Miletich was NOT answering his questions. He just retreated into jingoism, like happens all the time.

  4. Brett says:

    The Fatah political party which Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas belongs too calls for the destruction and annihilation of Israel in its own charter. The founder of the Party, Yasar Arafat was responsible for commanding terrorist attacks against Israel. Why should anyone vote to recognize them as a nation?

    That said I’m not surprised by Monson’s point of view, in fact its pretty predictable and expected from someone like him. Its weird though for some one who is such a supporter of human rights and freedoms that he would support recognizing Palestine which has a horrible human rights record.

    • AkuraIchiban says:

      That is total bs. Fatah doesn’t have that in their charter. What they want is Israel to stop building new colonies on Palestinian territory immediately and the independent free state of Palestine.

      Most of the things Jeff said were true about America arming and training mujahideen terrorists and other armed criminal organizations and instigating civil wars to sell BOTH sides weapons etc.

      Being critical of your country is natural. You don’t like some of the stuff your country does and you want them to fix it. You can’t just reply by saying “if you don’t like how the things are, take a hike”. That’s how democracy works, if the current leaders are taking the country somewhere it shouldn’t be at, change the leaders, change things around.

      Most of the time I think Jeff is naive himself and an obnoxious little anarchist.

    • K says:

      Why did Kosovo become recognized by 90% of the world including USA to become a sovereign nation, they’re responsible for 90% of the terrorist acts in the Balkan region and KLA is the leading terr. org in eastern Europe, but US still recognized them since they were of no harm to poor Israel. How dare someone hate the Israelis and try to become a state. Pure Neocolonialism by US, and the IMF and World bank and how they cause oppression and poverty throughout 3rd world countries stuff Monson talks about is on point, but fake Croatian pat can’t read a book to understand it all if it saved his life. No point to argue with ignorant and uninformed person it only makes your cause less significant.

  5. Kalle says:

    The PLO (or Fatah, if you like) has accepted Israel’s right to exist since they signed the Oslo peace accords in 1993. Yaser Arafat is hardly the first, or last, terrorist/freedom fighter turned statesman. But he’s dead, regardless, so calling out his name isn’t exactly relevant.

    The reason the US always sides with Israel is the same reason why there’s still a trade embargo with Cuba. Tiny domestic political interest groups wield a disproportionate amount of influence. I’m not a fan of Jeff Monson’s America=Terrorists! rants but when the US president can get bullied and publicly humiliated on the world stage by the Israeli PM then clearly something is not right.

  6. Liger05 says:

    Miletich is a dummy.

  7. mustapha says:

    Good Lord Pat comes off horribly. He should stick to, well, seminars and whatnot as I don’t like him as an announcer either.

  8. dola says:

    Miletich has some ’simple’ advice for other people too:

    http://oi55.tinypic.com/9u4tud.jpg

  9. Steve4192 says:

    Miletich is a little too conservative for my tastes, and clearly lacks a nuanced world view, but Monson is a straight-up loon.

  10. Keith Harris says:

    This Twitter exchange sounds like it could be scripted by WWE:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=od5iG1q9g1M

    Ed. — Harvard Chris!!!!!

  11. Stel says:

    WOW! that’s some serious cognitive dissonance Pat has going on right there…By resorting to calling Monson an ahole and telling him to leave, Pat has lost the debate before it really started.
    Pat seems to support conflict in general… he made no attempt to reconcile with a fellow fighter Monson, who isn’t even “Palestinian” rather, he pushed his buttons as one who is trying to provoke a fight.

    “How do terrorists orgs make money, Jeff? Answer is simple. By continued terrorist acts.”

    Israel…they get lots of money and its easily traced back to the us.
    Israel is the most effective terrorist state around, they used terrorism to get land from Palestine to create a jewish state. Now, descendents the Israeli terrorist group the Irgun have become key players, Rahm E was chief of staff at the white house and now the governor of Chicago and he’s the son of convicted Israeli terrorist who helped create Israel.
    Other than Israel and france(jew president)the USA is pretty much the only government in the world who doesn’t want Palestine to even try to gain statehood.

    Name ONE “terrorist” from Palestine who holds any notable position anywhere other than six feet under?

    It’s in Israels best interest to continue the conflict, because where there is conflict there is confusion, and where there is confusion a man who knows what he’s looking for can get it.
    If you look at how much land Israel has stolen since 67, its easy to see land and power is what Israel is looking for.
    Peace only benefits the PAls who want Israelis out of what was originally their land. Once they all agree on borders they will have a clearly defined state, then Israel will not need to police them and they will not have to occasionally fight back(or visa versa).

    • MD says:

      Bravo, the most well thought out response to this debate yet. The idea that we are tripping IEDS over in some sandbox, because the terrorists “hate our freedom” has gotten way old. There comes a point where we look in the mirror and realize we got global issues that stem from our own excess and greed. With that, Ron Paul is about the only one that speaks the truth about the Israel/Palestine issue. The truth is, 90% of the Middle Easts resentment towards the US stems from the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. News flash, there are 6 Jewish Senators and 13% of the Congress is Jewish. For Muslims they represent zero Senators and .4 Congressmen. Now, you tell me why no one wants to admit where the resentment in the Middle East comes from? Because if we face the facts and listen, we will have to finally solve the injustice that’s been taking place since 1948 that the US fully supports. Further, the number one country on the planet we give military aid to, Israel! Now, when the next hell fire missile lands on your kids school, day care center, etc. tell me your not going to be pissed?! Come on, I’d say any of us would be pissed at the driver and the bar that got him wasted before he hit me and my family while out driving. The analogy holds true with Israel and our endorsement of them. In the end, it’s wrong.

  12. jm says:

    Monson is right, Palestinians seeking a legitimate state through peaceful UN petition is in no way a validation of terrorism. I like Pat, but he’s bought into the lie that Palestinians are “the enemy” and Israel are “the good guys.” Perhaps if he spent a week living in the Palestinian territories under Israeli Government apartheid-like conditions he wouldn’t be so quick to judge them.

  13. dola says:

    Stel, you dick, you’re on your own anti-semitic island in outer space. Don’t do Monson any favors by coming to his defense.

    http://www.marxisthumanistinitiative.org/mhieditorial/condemn-left-anti-semitism-conspiracy-theories-and-other-limits-on-thought.html

  14. Apple-Jaxz says:

    pat sounds like a complete idiot here,he seems like all he does is watch cnn and fox news.

  15. Stel says:

    Obama is the \”the first Jewish President\”. That\’s the title of New York magazine\’s lead article, written by John Heilemann and quoting a major Obama fundraiser.

    Listening to Obama speak at the United Nations on Wednesday many would nod in agreement, not less in Palestine and the Arab world.

    The US president has embraced the rejectionist Israeli position on the question of international recognition of an independent Palestinian state.

    But that\’s not a Jewish position. It\’s a radical Zionist position. Many Jews, including US and Israeli Jews, do not embrace such extremist views.

    But the fact that Obama surpassed his predecessor George W Bush, the most radical supporter of Israel among all US Presidents, has left everyone in Israel dumbstruck. The latest Zionist US president sounded like Israel\’s own founding fathers.

    Never have they heard a US president read straight from the papers of the Israeli government.

    As Heilemann illustrates in his article, Obama\’s career was built on his relationships with generous Jewish contributors in Chicago.

    Indeed, the guy who brought the most money to the Democratic party over the last several decades became Obama\’s chief of staff, Rahm Emmanuel. Today, he\’s the mayor of Chicago.

    But it\’s not only about money. It\’s also about crucial support in Congress over urgent domestic issues that could make or break the Obama presidency. And the Israeli lobby, AIPAC, can make the president\’s life miserable over the course of the next year.

    Now, I understand all of that. But what I don\’t understand is why it is accepted as a fait accompli! As the nature of politics! Take it or leave it!

    If this is the case, then let\’s at least call a spade a spade; and out the US administration(s) for being what so many seem to say it is: Not Jewish or Zionist, rather hypocritical.

    It speaks of justice but pursues unfair policies; speaks of repression, but promotes its own interests at any cost. It preaches freedom but supports occupation; speaks of human rights but insists on entrusting the wolf, and only the wolf, with the hen house.

  16. edub says:

    It’s funny how many people on the internet think their subject matter experts on this topic. They read information from both sides (sometimes truth, but most of the time propaganda), and use it as “evidence” that their viewpoint is correct.

    Let’s run down the facts:

    -Israel needs to keep as much space as possible for their citizens right now because they are already right in the middle of a part of the world that wants their country wiped off the map.

    However, they have expanded into the Palestineans’ territories a few times (which continues the fighting between both sides). Palestinean “freedom fighters” also continue to attack Israel and it’s settlements which leads to counter attacks.

    -Israel became a state after WW2. Before WW1 it was Palestine (part of the Ottoman empire), before that a british colony, before that under someone else’s rule. Acting like anybody has a “legitimate” claim to the region
    when it has been transferred between different civilizations and religions an umpteenth amount of times over the past 3000 years is stupid.

    -If Palestine were to be created as a State, it would provide a strategic position for any country in the middle east that wanted to start a war with Israel (which are more than not).

    Anybody who thinks either side is “right” here is truly naive. There is no simple answer to this equation, and if history is any indicator there is no complex answer either.

    • Robert Poole says:

      “-If Palestine were to be created as a State, it would provide a strategic position for any country in the middle east that wanted to start a war with Israel (which are more than not).”

      This is stupid. Iran is right there to do that. Same with Iraq. It’s a stone’s throw for either. If Israel would stop electing right wing nutcases like Netanyahu that try to bully the region with nukes they might make some sort of headway with having more peace in the region. ESPECIALLY if they agreed to a land split which gave Palestine their own legitimate state.

      Rattle the nuke saber all the time though and who is going to like you, seriously?

      • edub says:

        No it’s not stupid. It’s reality.

        Take a look at a map before you start talking about who is next to who. Also maybe do some research on why countries are threatened more when they have an enemy that actually is connected (or in this cases inside) to/of its boarders.

        Palestine would undoubtedly give a better position to ANY group that wanted to start a war, or guerrilla type operation against Israel.

        http://ddc.aub.edu.lb/projects/archaeology/berytus44/maps/Middle_East98.jpg

        There’s a map.

        “This is stupid. Iran is right there to do that. Same with Iraq. It’s a stone’s throw for either.”

        Take it from somebody who’s actually been there (and can read a map): Neither are right there, and both are separated by one of Israel’s last remaining allies (which is shaky right now) Jordan.

        Israel is already at a bad place strategically because of their relationship with Egypt going down the drain. Palestine becoming a separate state would undoubtedly make it worse.

        • nottheface says:

          So it somehow adds to Israel’s security by establishing small settlements, dotted throughout foreign territory that would easily be cut off in any major conflict and take a great portion of the IDF resources to defend than a straightforward border? Something with their superior military strength and nuclear shield is much easier to defend then asymmetrical guerilla combat against non-state players?

          I am a firm supporter of Israel’s right to exist, post Second World War it was the best of several bad options, but Likud policies, paired with Christianist support in the US lead to not only degrading the Palestinians but bringing about Israel’s future demise by their own hands. Something those Rapture fans are probably cheering on.

        • edub says:

          Ok, you’re better in this. Or usually are, but apparently having an off night.

          Please point out the place in my post where I said the settlements on gaza’s west bank are good for Israel to have….

          Couldn’t find it could ya. Here I’ll post something that makes your first paragraph look even more stupid. “However, they have expanded into the Palestineans’ territories a few times (which continues the fighting between both sides).”

          That means I am saying the settlements are one of the worst things Israel could do in this situation.

          “Something with their superior military strength and nuclear shield is much easier to defend then asymmetrical guerilla combat against non-state players?”

          Short answer, yes. Long answer, yes because as soon as Palestine gets state hood they align with (place Middle east power here), and become a puppet government for somebody else with much more power and resources (kind of like what America does with countries across the world).

          Policies have not been the only thing that is leading to an eventual war. In fact those policies have probably been keeping Israel safe for the last 50 years. Palestinians were never not fighting against the “Zionist regime”. Acting like their alliance with the US, or their “degradation” of Palestinians is the main reason Israel might be in trouble isn’t accurate at all.

          Without the US’s help Israel would have been wiped off the map years ago, and atrocities 100 times worse than what happened in Kosovo would’ve taken place.

        • nottheface says:

          Edub, you notice I responded only to you and ignored the actual absurd comments encircling us because there is nothing to discuss with them. I comprehend your reasoning but I feel it ignores what the end result of continued Israel control of Palestine: the demise of Israel. Or at least Israel as a Jewish state.

          What is the end result of continued Israel occupation of Palestine? Can a democratic western-allied nation in the 21st century continually colonize a people, or rule over a large portion of the population and refuse to grant them citizenship or the right to vote? Eventually the Palestinians are going to give up on asking for their own nation and begin demanding the right to be Israeli citizens. What then? Do they grant the soon-to-be majority Palestinians the right to vote and thus make Israel a non-Jewish state overnight? Do they refuse to give them that right making their nation the new apartheid era South Africa? If we think Israel is isolated now, imagine how hard it will be for the European union nations, Turkey, or any of the Arab states to not only recognize them but not pass embargoes. Even US support is not guaranteed if they went that route. The only other solution would be to forcibly expel the Arab population, a verbatim solution if their ever was one. What do you think the world’s reaction would be if Israel engaged in ethnic cleansing? (Unfortunately there are allies of Netanyahu who think that is an actual solution.)

          The Palestinians are not completely without fault and years of ‘freedom fighters” blowing up kids in pizza parlors has the added of effect of taking away much sympathy for their plight. But their past barbarism doesn’t mean that Israel should hold on to their past maximalist positions. Time isn’t on Israel side and they now have a PA that is willing to come to some sort of two-state solution (as well as several Arab states let by that bastion of liberal democracy Saudi Arabia, willing to recognize Israel if they comet to terms). This is the time. Unfortunately, Israel’s policies are now governed by a fringe settlement movement intent on fulfilling a Biblical re-conquest, a government unwilling to confront them, and allies in the US who dream of a greater Israel shepherding in the Rapture.

        • edub says:

          I think you make great points there. Especially in the second paragraph because I could see anyone of those factors happening (apartheid, annexation and expulsion, etc.) with the biggest one being expulsion of all Palestinians from the counry. I think it would lead to a big war because I don’t see the USA leaving Israel alone I(unless another religiuos awakening happens and all the Christians realize they hate Jews too).

          My biggest thing is I don’t believe that those concessions from countries like Turkey and SA will last. I think there would be moderate peace for a while, but the base differences of the religions would lead to more bomb attacks happening (or Israel conducting “preemptive” air strikes on god knows where). If history is any indicator then no matter what series of events takes place, it all ends in War.

          Bill Mahr moment: It kind of makes you wonder how good the world would be if there was no religion.

        • nottheface says:

          Edub, that war is forever guaranteed is not always true. Look at Europe. For centuries it was a given that every generation or so England, France, and/or Germany would engage in an almost apocalyptical war between themselves. From the tens of millions killed in the 30 Years War, to the million killed in the 7 Year War, Napoleanic Wars, and Great War, to the tens of millions more killed in the Second World War (forgetting the minor conflicts of Crimea and the Franco-Prussian war that only killed hundreds of thousands) , it has been a given that France, England, and Germany were doomed to perpetually be at war. That idea is now inconceivable thanks in part due to the fact their prosperity has been tied together thanks to trade, alliances. NATA, the EU, and other constructs that have been created to make the idea of war between one another too painful to ever make a reality. If those three who have killed incalculable numbers of each other can abolish War between themselves I see no reason the same can not be done between Israel and its Arab neighbors.

        • edub says:

          There’s only one: Hebrew vs. Islam.

          The countries involved had long histories of death towards one another, but in the end after territorial conflicts were resolved (and so called kings let go of ancestral rights). There was no reason to fight anymore. They were all under the same god in the end.

          The religious differences keep this rivalry at another level IMO.

    • MD says:

      “It’s funny how many people on the internet think their subject matter experts on this topic”

      -Isn’t this the pot calling the kettle black? I mean your on the internet and acting as if your an expert as well, aren’t you?!

      Come on bro, get a clue. The truth is, the facts are coming out and the US’ unbiased, unblinded, unjust support of Israel is coming to an end.

      Until then, you keep taking that stance. I’m sure your side will be real proud that your carrying the Israeli, opps, I mean the American flag.

      • edub says:

        No, I’m providing broad facts that are easy for everybody to understand (unless you have a reason to think differently). I was talking about both sides who actually think they know what goes on at the highest levels of government (which apparently is you).

        “Until then, you keep taking that stance. I’m sure your side will be real proud that your carrying the Israeli, opps, I mean the American flag.”

        Hey genius, learn to read. No place in my post does it say I am an Israel supporter. But keep thinking all those “facts” that are pushed through random internet sites are true.

        LEARN TO READ.

        • Nick says:

          You wrote: ‘Short answer, yes. Long answer, yes because as soon as Palestine gets state hood they align with (place Middle east power here), and become a puppet government for somebody else with much more power and resources (kind of like what America does with countries across the world).

          Policies have not been the only thing that is leading to an eventual war. In fact those policies have probably been keeping Israel safe for the last 50 years. Palestinians were never not fighting against the “Zionist regime”. Acting like their alliance with the US, or their “degradation” of Palestinians is the main reason Israel might be in trouble isn’t accurate at all.

          Without the US’s help Israel would have been wiped off the map years ago, and atrocities 100 times worse than what happened in Kosovo would’ve taken place.’

          - None of these paragraphs contain a single ‘fact’, just sheer conjecture and speculation. Also, your little diatribe at the end was just petty, and makes you seem like an arsehole. My two cents worth.

        • Al says:

          Two types of people support and agree with you; politicians in the Jewish lobby’s pocket or a fellow Israeli. So, which one are you? The lobbyist or Israeli?

        • Al says:

          Read Norman fienkelsteins books not Alan Dershowitz to get real in site to what’s going on over there. Why do I get the feeling your either 17 or 18 and your repeating the crap your parents pumped into you?

        • edub says:

          Nick- Well it’s good I don’t care what you thing “arsehole”. If you really think Israel would still be around, without the backing of the US you’re insane.

        • edub says:

          Al- You would be wrong on both accounts. Judging by what you wrote I am most likely older than you.

          It’s funny that you say read Finkelstein (the guy you agree with), and then say not Dershowitz (the guy you don’t). Especially when Dershowitz has been critical of Israel’s policies towards Palestine in the past.

          The thing is you have no idea what your talking about, as most don’t. I’m not pretending too, like you seem to be.

          “Read Norman fienkelsteins”… Hahaha I can’t stop laughing at that.

  17. coltrane says:

    Pat (and the others) you are a FIGHTER. Imagine Jeff’s words as a technique used against you and you have to COUNTER. you didn’t. you ran around the ring and gave him the finger. the only thing you can do (and the others) is to consider at what he says. Howard Zinn’s book is considered an important history text and deserves to be read. What Jeff is saying is pretty much the accepted view of current history and it’s not controversial stuff. See if what he says is correct by READING! Even the NYtimes! Heres a simple question:
    Are Bush’s wars seen today in a positive light? Does the world (do Americans, even) think of Bush’s invasion of Iraq as a good thing anymore? Was he honest? Did we learn anything about the US gov’t after that? We sure did! SO WHO’S HEAD IS IN THE SAND – YOURS OR JEFF’S?
    PS: PA and Hamas were killing each other! Hamas does not support this UN move either! See what’s happening in the Arab world? they want change! they want democracy! Israelis want change and peace too! over 60% of Americans don’t support the wars! So who’s supporting all this craziness – Pat or Jeff?

  18. Stel says:

    from the dailybeast

    “While publicly pressuring Israel to make deeper concessions to the Palestinians, President Obama has secretly authorized the sale of 55 deep-penetrating bombs known as bunker busters,delivered to Israel in 2009, just several months after Obama took office. Newsweek has learned.
    The military sale was arranged behind the scenes as Obama’s demands for Israel to stop building settlements in disputed territories were fraying political relations between the two countries in public.”

    who’s leading who on here…

  19. RST says:

    So, some weirdo from iowa (the biggest trailer park in the midwest) meets another weirdo from washington state (the biggest trailer park on the west coast).

    Not exactly the the McLaughlin Group IMO.

  20. Robert Poole says:

    Militech sounds like an uneducated moron in this debate. American exceptionalism is a bullshit meme created by Conservatives to whitewash any wrongdoing in American history.

    The Palestinian-Israel conflict could be sorted out pretty quickly if right wing extremists like Netanyahu didn’t run the Government and refuse to cooperate with land negotiations. Instead he prefers to continue to push the Palestinians at every turn and foment further violence and panic.

    America is flawed and imperfect. We have gone to war, even most recently, for the sole reason of enriching corporate friends and killed innocent people of these lands as well as our own soldiers all to benefit specific benefactors (Halliburton, Blackwater, et al). For those we lost in the tragedy of 9/11, we have killed innocents ten fold in the wars we have engaged in since and let more than that number of our own troops perish to benefit the richest of us all.

    If you choose to deny this fact, knowing that WMDs were a lie, that evidence is there to prove that Bush/Cheney planned Iraq from before they took office or that they purposely ignored briefings on the incoming al Qaeda attack in the Summer of 2001 or that they had drawn a map distributing Iraq’s oil fields to American oil companies in early 2002 or that they had the FBI and CIA fudge intelligence on purpose to drum up a false war…. then you are incapable of seeing the truth. Or are a Fox News Viewer (no difference).

  21. RST says:

    War can be lucrative.

    Poor people fight and die!

    “Job makers” make profits from wars…

    War can be an economy…

    …if you’ve got the overhead…

    Whatever is right or wrong, it might be out of murikans hands soon.

  22. nottheface says:

    I don’t know how any white Americans can complain about Jewish conspiracies. The Protocols of Elders of Zion must have a chapter dictating we get a big cut of the pie.

  23. DukeMatisse says:

    Pat is a bit dense, and Jeff- with all that education – sounds like a true moron.

  24. G3Ken says:

    Wow, seems like the tides have turned and a lot of folks aren’t just spouting the “USA, USA, USA” chant any longer. Thank God because I always thought that it made us look ignorant.

    I love my country. I served my country for 5 years in the military. That said, it doesn’t mean I love “our” government. First of all, folks need to get one thing right: the US is NOT a Democracy, it’s a REPUBLIC. There’s a huge difference. In a democracy the majority, even if it were by ONE vote, could decide that everyone who didn’t vote with them be exiled to Arkansas. In a Republic, we have God-given RIGHTS that can NEVER be taken away. Democracy is best defined as two wolves and a sheep deciding what’s for dinner. You always hear about American-style democracy. It doesn’t exist. Josef Goebbels said if you repeat a lie enough times , people believe it.

    We are no longer the nation that fought a war of Independence. The Founding Fathers abhorred a standing army and fighting foreign wars of aggression. Now we use the CIA in the best of cases to subvert governments and the military in the worst of cases killing untold numbers of civilians.

    American fools have given up so many of their freedoms in the name of fighting a fraudulent “war on terror”. Ben Franklin warned against it. We’ve become a police state and most don’t even know it.

    I love America. I support Israel and want to see them prosper, but there shouldn’t be a UN, because their interests are NOT our interests. We need to GTFO of others’ business.

    Watch the first half of this video, you needn’t go into the second half about militia’s (unless that’s your belief), but watch the first half, read the quotes, watch the images and tell me how I’m wrong.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfKLWb-AzUM

  25. highkid says:

    militech is a typical dumb american who just blindly believes things without knowing why. monson couldve argued better but he’s basically right about everything he said.

    but monson is still a moron for that spraypaint incident.

  26. K says:

    Why did Kosovo become recognized by 90% of the world including USA to become a sovereign nation, they’re responsible for 90% of the terrorist acts in the Balkan region and KLA is the leading terr. org in eastern Europe, but US still recognized them since they were of no harm to poor Israel. How dare someone hate the Israelis and try to become a state. Pure Neocolonialism by US, and the IMF and World bank and how they cause oppression and poverty throughout 3rd world countries stuff JM talks about is on point, but fake Croatian pat can’t read a book to understand it all if it saved his life. No point to argue with ignorant and uninformed person it only makes your cause less significant.

  27. NomadRip says:

    Pat should not be having this conversation. A People’s History of the United States is an eye-opening book. It’s tough to read more than a few pages at a time without getting too pissed about the BS they fed us in school and on the news.

  28. Stel says:

    Its heartening to see MMa fans can stop and discuss larger issues, even if most of the fighters choose to brain fart on bigger issues instead.

    So rather than cut and paste, or try to convince someone they are wrong, or denigrate them, I’ll try to come up with a good morally acceptable compromise for the two parties.

    Israel has its nation, that’s reality and I support their existence in their nation.
    However I don’t support fascism as a way to enlarge anything, even if my family endorses it.
    Fascism has nothing to do with the ultimate goal of ALL mankind, which is to elevate his thinking and be at peace with himself.

    When military force is used to gain control of people and their land, the lofty ideals of peace are are merely excuses to grow more fascist mechanisms.

    Palestine has shrunk to a tenth of what it was since Israels recent creation.
    But why? Israel did not buy the land, they occupied it by force and that’s why its disputed.
    Peace will not be achieved until the Israel settlements have stopped, and the current ones are discussed.

    I mean, two people can’t really negotiate equally splitting a pie when one person is jamming as much pie into their mouth as fast as they can?

    If Israel were to merely stop doing what it knows is wrong, then agree to discuss what to do about their past wrongs the concept of reconciliation and reparations might come about.
    Israel cede 1/2 of their existing settlements as a compromise to the issue. further, Israel could negotiate leasing their remaining 1/2 from the Pals. Pal would own the land but rent to Izzy. And i’m sure izzy could negotiate selling the houses they built on the illegal settlements to the returning Pals.

  29. Ross says:

    Ron Paul 2012, against entangling alliances and corrupt government. fight for freedom.

  30. Bob Ross says:

    dayum! i thought pat was smarter than this. he immediately comes off condescending and resorts to insults & typical right wing jingoist garbage. not a good look ‘bud’.

    monson has made himself and easy target, but the gist of his position is correct.

    if people actually had time in their lives to be analytical instead of regurgitating easily digestable dogma, they would see there is no symmetry to the conflict. israel has the support of the lone superpower. israel has the military might, as well as the economic power. the palestinians have sand. both are guilty of heinous crimes but it’s very clear the palestinians are the ones with israel’s dick in their ass.

  31. RulerOne says:

    LMAO! JM is another Libtard idiot…..Hey JM, so the Russians, Cubans never started a civil war in Latin America, Asia and on the African continent? The communist never financed & supplied arms to “revolutionary” movements around the globe????

    Loser, HOPE YOU GET YOUR A#* WHOOPED IN YOUR NEXT FIGHT…you gunna wear a dirty night shirt to the fight JM?????

    What a Douche Bag!!!

  32. RulerOne says:

    Next JM will Claim,that the Holocaust never really happened because he read another book for the 2nd time in his life that said so!

    Loser!

  33. Dachlan says:

    I really expected more for you man. Please don’t post this rubbish.

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