Friend of our site


MMA Headlines


MMA Torch


MMA Weekly


Sherdog (News)


Sherdog (Articles)


Liver Kick


MMA Junkie


MMA Ratings


Rating Fights


Fightline


MMA Frenzy


MMA Betting


Search this site



Latest Articles


News Corner


MMA Rising


Audio Corner


Oddscast


MMA Dude Bro


Sherdog Radio


Eddie Goldman


Video Corner


Fight Hub


Special thanks to...

Link Rolodex

Site Index


To access our list of posting topics and archives, click here.

Friend of our site


Buy and sell MMA photos at MMA Prints

Site feedback


Fox Sports: "Zach Arnold's Fight Opinion site is one of the best spots on the Web for thought-provoking MMA pieces."

« | Home | »

Today’s chalkboard (4/14/08)

By Zach Arnold | May 14, 2008

Print Friendly and PDF

  1. Fox Sports: Tito Ortiz — ‘I plan on fighting for three more years’
  2. Fox Sports: IFL is seeking buyers for the troubled league
  3. Sherdog: IFL changes while seeking a future
  4. Fight Hype: Christopher Bell — ‘What’s really the big deal about steroids?’
  5. Setanta Sports (UK): Keith Jardine – legend slayer
  6. The Calgary Sun: Workout with MMA fighter proves a humbling experience
  7. The Sun (UK): Wayne McCullough believes David Haye can make an impact in MMA when he hangs up his boxing gloves
  8. Five Ounces of Pain: Gina Carano on ESPN’s E-60 show
  9. MMA Predictions: Gina Carano and Kaitlin Young speak on upcoming bout
  10. Fighter’s Only Magazine (UK): Dan Hardy talks to FO about UFC deal
  11. MMA Payout: More details on ESPN MMA show
  12. Fightmetric: BJ Penn is ridiculous
  13. ADCC News: Ryan Schultz talks IFL, SportFight, and Team Quest
  14. MMA Analyst: TUF season 8 – combination of rants best describes TUF’s woes
  15. MMA Opinion: The Forest from the Trees
  16. USA Today: Jeff Monson Q & A

Topics: IFL, Media, MMA, Pro Elite, UFC, UK, Zach Arnold | 20 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |

20 Responses to “Today’s chalkboard (4/14/08)”

  1. donny says:

    TUF is getting ridiculous

    1: 2 foreign fighters have never fought each other for a ufc title.

    2: Fabricio Werdum is the true #1 contender. Dana said he will get a title shot if he beats gonzaga and even said he was next after the fact.
    In fear of having 2 foriegners face off they opt for an average american fighter.

    why hasnt okami vs silva been announced yet? ………………….it wont happen because of the above reasons

    3: A title fight cannot be made unless theres a reality tv show for it. Is this a sport? or sports entertainment? since when does reality tv determine champions in sports?

    4: in order to get a title shot you must beat a wwe superstar.
    I heard Bobby Lashley was coming to ufc, if eddie sanchez beats him is he next for nogueria?

    my respect for mma has dropped with this news and im sure most of you would agree.

    The ufc cuts:
    Tim Sylvia
    Cro Cops
    Jake O’brien
    Arlovski

    all top contenders and gives Mir a title shot? is this some kind of sick joke?

    what is happening to the sport i love? Has mainstream reality tv ruined it?

  2. Dedwyre says:

    I don’t care for title matches revolving around the reality show. It puts too much of a gap between defenses. But I guess I’m coming from a sport perspective, as opposed to a mainstream entertainment perspective.

  3. Mateo says:

    They only cut Jake out of that list you gave and he is not a top contender.

    The others were given mutually agreed upon releases or signed with a different org upon completion of their contract with UFC.

    The fighters don’t really seem to care about titles. Ha ha. They just want to get paid as much money as possible. I don’t blame them for wanting to get paid or the UFC for coming to the conclusion that none of those fighters are worth paying outrageous sums of money to.

  4. MickDawg says:

    BJ Penn is indeed ridiculous.

    Even though, technically, it’s a loss, that was a great showing…and it can certainly be argued that he won that fight.

  5. IceMuncher says:

    TUF isn’t actually that bad for title defenses. It basically skips one title fight in one division per season.

    The WW title picture was the worst, but it was compounded by Serra getting injured and being unable to fight in December. The LHW title picture wasn’t held up much because Rampage and Forrest were both injured in December/January, so the fight only got pushed back by probably 2 months due to TUF.

    The next season gives the HW division a much needed breather. There is a serious lack of contenders in that division, I wouldn’t be surprised if that was a major factor in choosing Mir and Nog as coaches. When a fighter like Werdum, who’s on a one-fight winning streak, is considered the #1 contender by many fans, you have contender issues. This’ll buy some time for a fighter worthy of a title shot to emerge.

    Don’t get me wrong, holding up a division for a few extra months is annoying. In an ideal situation it wouldn’t happen, but it’s really not as bad as some of you make it out to be. It should be note that it does some considerable good as well: it promotes the fights, it promotes the fighters, champions and up-and-comers alike, and it promotes the sport. The pros are greater than the cons here.

  6. Zack says:

    “Don’t get me wrong, holding up a division for a few extra months is annoying. In an ideal situation it wouldn’t happen, but it’s really not as bad as some of you make it out to be.”

    Only getting to see Nog fight once a year is as bad as its made out to be. Total bummer.

  7. Ultimo Santa says:

    The guys that UFC DOESN’T have under contract at Heavyweight is rediculous.

    They blew any chance at Fedor/Couture, Couture/Nogueira, a grudge-match between Sylvia/Mir, Fedor/CroCop 2, CroCop/Couture, CroCop/Arlovski, etc. The list of wasted Super Fights goes on and on.

    But now the big question is this: if (and when) Nogueira defeats Frank Mir…then what?

    The natural selection would be signing Josh Barnett – he’s American, cuts an awesome promo and has a good chance at winning the title, but he’s not buddies with Dana White so that’s out the window.

    Gonzaga seems to have blown his chance, and they don’t want Werdum to get a shot…are we going to see Nog/Alvarez?

    Are we far from “Hillbilly Heartthrob” Brad Imes getting a UFC Heavyweight Title shot?

  8. 45 Huddle says:

    The problem is that these promotions like Bodog, Affliction, and others are paying the Heavyweights beyond what the market is allowing. And while Tim Sylvia might think he is worth $500,000 a fight, the fact that these johnny come lately promotions are out of business within a year shows that they really aren’t worth that pay.

    I am not a fan of the Heavyweights anyways, but I would love to see all the best Heavyweights in the UFC. From a business perspective, I can’t blame Zuffa for what they have done. If they start to compete with these salaries, it creates a slippery slope that they could never recover from. Not only would they have to pay each Heavyweight $500,000 plus, but it would also increase pay for the rest of the divisions.

    Even Gary Shaw, who I will admit is bad for the sport, isn’t dumb enough to pour all of his money into these guys. Neither is DREAM. They know the investment isn’t worth the return.

    As for Josh Barnett… Forget about Dana White… I don’t think the Fertitta’s would want him back. He screwed them over big time.

    And for the Nogueira/Mir Title Fight…. it is a joke from a rankings perspective. It makes sense for business, but honestly, it is such garbage it really is a shame.

  9. Rollo the Cat says:

    I don’t like putting the belt on hold for so long, but when all is said and done, the stunt will have served its purpose. Nog and Mir will be more popular with the fans. I have stopped watching TUF completely, but it is still effective.

    Also, the layoff probably helps since the HW division needs time to sort itself out and for someone to establish himself as a top contender.

    The HW division actually will be looking good by NYE. Cain and Carwin will establish themselves as rising stars, and there is a chance for one or two of the current fighters to get a few impressive wins. And who knows what organization will fold up next and spill a bunch of talent onto the market.

    I wouldn’t worry yet about my HW division if I was Dana.

  10. Grape Knee High says:

    45, for once I might be more pro-UFC in this instance than you.

    I don’t mind the Nog/Mir fight at all, nor do I mind the layoff in the championship picture. If it’s not Nog/Mir, it would have to be either Vera (who just lost) or Werdum (who is on an enormous 1 fight win streak, and who Nog already beat). Mir is in exactly the same boat as either of those two, but he has the name value that neither Werdum and Vera lack. Plus, this is old school PRIDE vs UFC, which I can dig.

    Also, on a tangent — and I know this might sound crazy — but I think what the UFC is doing with the HW division is good for MMA. They’re letting their guys test the market and earn more money if they can. They’re going to let the other organizations set the bar. If the other orgs can stay in business, then fighter salaries go up. If the other orgs go out of business, then the UFC already had the market priced correctly for their services and they’ll come back.

    Either way, the hardcore fans’ pipe dream of salaries rising *and* the UFC signing every elite fighter will never, ever occur no matter how much they complain. 45 is absolutely right about the slippery slope.

  11. IceMuncher says:

    “Only getting to see Nog fight once a year is as bad as its made out to be. Total bummer.”

    Nog’s lack of fights since coming to the UFC had more to do with Couture than it does with the next TUF. Couture is bad for the sport.

  12. Jeremy (not that Jeremy) says:

    I think the heavyweights provide an interesting case study.

    The big earners to date in the US have primarily been guys who compete at light heavyweight. This has long been a competitive weight class, and one that the UFC has a lot of good results with in terms of commanding a lot of PPV buys.

    They then turn around and share that wealth with the headline fighters.

    I wonder if the heavyweights would do better if they all went to one promotion rather than flying to the four corners of the earth.

  13. 45 Huddle says:

    Well, I don’t mind the layoff for the HW Title… And I did have a big problem with the layoff for the WW Title. But I do think Mir fighting for the title is the worst challenger for a UFC Title since Nate Quarry.

    What I don’t understand about a company like Affliction is that Heavyweights have never been headliners. As Jeremy says, it has been Light Heavyweights. And the second best selling division has been Welterweight. Heavyweights have always played second fiddle in the UFC, and I think rightfully so… because the other divisions pack more excitment into a fight.

  14. PizzaChef says:

    Change of pace here…DREAM is letting fans vote on what Grand Prix matches should take at DREAM 4 and 5.

    http://www.dreamofficial.com/special/vote

    Name translations if anyone needs it:

    DREAM.4

    Kin Tai Ei
    Gerard Mousasi
    Kazushi Sakuraba
    Jason “Mayhem” Miller
    Zelg “Benkei Glasic
    Kiyoshi Tamura
    Ronaldo Jacare
    Yoon Dong Sik

    DREAM.5

    Caol Uno
    Eddie Alvarez
    Tatsuya Kawajiri
    Winner of Shinya Aoki/Katsuhiko Nagata

  15. D.Capitated says:

    Replying to everyone, all at once!

    The problem is that these promotions like Bodog, Affliction, and others are paying the Heavyweights beyond what the market is allowing.

    The market is clearly allowing it at the moment because that is what they are paying. If they fail, then yes, the market can’t handle an independent giving guys a boost in that sense. If they succeed (whether its because people want to see heavyweight MMA or because they sign away a major draw like Tito and gain notoriety), then the market changes. In any case, the UFC has very few of the top 20 heavyweights in the world under contract, and that’s not necessarily a good thing.

    The HW division actually will be looking good by NYE. Cain and Carwin will establish themselves as rising stars, and there is a chance for one or two of the current fighters to get a few impressive wins. And who knows what organization will fold up next and spill a bunch of talent onto the market.

    Well, if the IFL collapses, they might be able to pick up Roy Nelson. Everyone else seems to have quite a bit of money to play with and time to go right now. For it to go the UFC’s way, everyone else has to fail, and Carwin and Velazquez will have to succeed (they’re basically untested right now).

    Interesting to note that E:60 on ESPN has done two MMA stories, and they’re both about athletes on the EXC card coming up in two weeks, and that ESPN is refusing to let their new MMA news program be UFC only. Of course, nothing is said about this.

  16. Grape Knee High says:

    Jeremy said:

    They then turn around and share that wealth with the headline fighters.

    I wonder if the heavyweights would do better if they all went to one promotion rather than flying to the four corners of the earth.

    Seems like a good thought, but if the UFC sees this strategy to a success, the market forces will work against their favor. Upstarts like Affliction and M-1 will pop up out of nowhere of enough capital to pay more money to sign the guys you made into stars. We’re seeing it right now.

    D.Cap said:

    In any case, the UFC has very few of the top 20 heavyweights in the world under contract, and that’s not necessarily a good thing.

    Not a good thing for the fans, but I think long-term the sport will reach an equilibrium where there will be the UFC and one or two other larger minor leagues, and they’ll share the top HWs more equitably. I can’t see any realistic scenario where the UFC ever has all the top HWs under contract without them crushing their competition.

    But it’s a catch-22 because if they crush their competition, the HWs won’t have as much earning potential.

  17. D.Capitated says:

    Seems like a good thought, but if the UFC sees this strategy to a success, the market forces will work against their favor. Upstarts like Affliction and M-1 will pop up out of nowhere of enough capital to pay more money to sign the guys you made into stars. We’re seeing it right now.

    Alternately, will there ever come a time when fighters don’t want more than they are getting paid? I don’t see any real end to the existence of Bodog like organizations. They existed before the boom, after all. We all remember the first incarnation of the WFA and the WEF.

    Not a good thing for the fans, but I think long-term the sport will reach an equilibrium where there will be the UFC and one or two other larger minor leagues, and they’ll share the top HWs more equitably. I can’t see any realistic scenario where the UFC ever has all the top HWs under contract without them crushing their competition.

    Spreading out the heavyweights has never proven to be a winning philosophy. Ask boxing how having numerous champions works out.

  18. Jeremy (not that Jeremy) says:

    I guess a lot depends on whether these companies that pop up last longer than five events.

    I wasn’t specifically thinking UFC in terms of being a good destination for all these heavyweights to go to though. They have several strong divisions at the moment, and there’s an unwillingness on their part to put more than one title fight on a card these days.

    If you can fight four times in the year at 200k versus twice at 300k, you still come out ahead. You kind of need a promotion that is really dedicated to playing the heavyweights up that has staying power.

    Dream doesn’t seem to be interested in heavyweights right now, Pancrase and Shooto aren’t particularly interested, and the other US promotion that is really in that market that I consider stable is EliteXC, but they don’t host a lot of PPV shows either (and IMHO you need PPV shows to be able to pay out those big purses), maybe there just isn’t a single good destination available, and that’s the real source of the problem.

    Fighters don’t know how many fights they’re going to get during the year, so they just run out and grab whatever they can for one fight or a multi-fight deal, even if they suspect that that promotion might not be able to host a second show.

    I understand wanting to make money, but this stuff is killing the heavyweights right now. You’ve got just a few name fighters, none of them are particularly active, and there’s not any promotion that’s considered to have a solid heavyweight division. They may run themselves out of careers in the major promotions if everyone decides it’s just too expensive to keep heavyweights around, particularly if they lose all their drawing power.

    I think Eddie Goldman is a loon, but he had some interesting comments about Affliction recently where he was pointing out that these guys don’t have a history drawing in the US. Couture is your one guy, and that could be more because of his history at LHW than his career at heavyweight. He was involved in that huge headline period of UFC’s development, where you had the whole rivalry, the chaos in the LHW, the three fights against Liddell, the Liddell vs Ortiz and Shamrock vs Ortiz thing going on all at once, and he was in the thick of it.

    There isn’t ANYTHING like that happening in the heavyweights now, and maybe it was a perfect storm that won’t happen in MMA again for a long time.

  19. Grape Knee High says:

    Alternately, will there ever come a time when fighters don’t want more than they are getting paid?

    Of course not. 🙂 The fighters should try to get as much as they can. That’s the nature of the market. But as soon as one organization like the UFC sees runaway success, other orgs with deep pockets will follow. The barrier to entry in MMA is not very high; it just takes deep pockets.

    Spreading out the heavyweights has never proven to be a winning philosophy. Ask boxing how having numerous champions works out.

    I’m certainly not saying that spreading out the HWs is best for the fans or even necessarily optimal for business. But realistically, the HWs will never be consolidated as long as there is money to be made by organizers. It’s similar to a real-life version of the prisoner’s dilemma in game theory.

  20. The Gaijin says:

    Zach,

    When are we going to start getting some more opinion pieces, articles, op-eds etc. from you and your contributers here?

    That’s what initially drew myself and I’m sure many others to this site in the first place – “Fight Opinion”. Don’t get me wrong – this is still a valuable site for links, articles and info BUT I’m sure I’m not alone in saying that the best part of this site has always been the exclusives you guys contribute (and the radio show of course!) not a list of links to other writers’ material and up-coming fight cards.

Comments

*
To prove you're a person (not a spam script), type the security word shown in the picture.
Anti-spam image