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UFC 81 (2/2 Las Vegas)
By Zach Arnold | February 2, 2008
Event results: MMA Weekly | Sherdog | The Fight Network | MMA Junkie | Bloody Elbow | Total MMA | Observer
According to this report, Steve Austin, The Undertaker, and JBL are at the building.
Somewhere in the world, Antonio Inoki is crying about Brock Lesnar’s loss.
And now we’re going to get Nogueira vs. Werdum for the heavyweight title soon.
Post-mortems from the press:
- Los Angeles Times: Lesnar doesn’t last one round in UFC bout
- The Canadian Press: Lesnar only lasted 90 seconds in his UFC debut
- The Washington Post: Mir capitalizes on early error by Lesnar in UFC 81
- The Associated Press: Mir spoils Lesnar’s UFC debut
- Steve Cofield: Reality bites – Mir submits Lesnar at UFC 81
- Steve Sievert: Mir exposes Lesnar at UFC 81
- MMA Opinion: Lesnar’s UFC debut falls short during UFC 81
- Any Given Saturday: UFC 81 post-show audio recap with Luke Thomas & Jeff Hamlin
- Oliver Copp: UFC 81 post-fight press conference audio clips
- Dave Meltzer: Brock Lesnar shows superstar potential in loss
Plus, an update on Andrei Arlovski.
Topics: Media, MMA, UFC, WWE, Zach Arnold | 77 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |
Im not arguing that Pride is better than UFC… Both are very different. I just saying if you took a UFC top fighter and threw them in Pride they would have has the shit stomped out of them. They would not have been able to take the 10min rounds, they would have have cried over a yellow card, and they would not know what to do with the stomps, soccer kicks, and knees to the head of a grounded fighter, and there would not be enough room to back up (and shall i say run/escape) Thats a fact! Give them some time and they would adjust. Same with Pride coming to the UFC. Your seeing Pride fighters adjusting from a ring to a huge cage and coming off the bench of (some) almost a year of not fighting. There is a big difference.
Tim is a good fighter – true, difficult to some – true, but that all didn’t mean shit in this match to NOG. To me it seems people here are making excuses for the guy.
Also why i have a chip on my shoulder for Tim is that he/the UFC turned down the fight against Fedor for the first US Pride.
UFC will always be looked at as sub par to the global mma community because thier fighters do not fight globally. Until they open it up and send their fighters abroad it will always be this way (IMO).
Also why i have a chip on my shoulder for Tim is that he/the UFC turned down the fight against Fedor for the first US Pride.
Tim’s always wanted to fight Fedor. In fact, it was Fedor who supposedly made demands that he never face Sylvia if he signed with the UFC, not the other way around.
“Unlike you, Gaijin. I always give credit where credit is due. Nogueira won a fight that he should’ve lost. Nogueira would be a very bad match up for Couture.”
Well I’d hate to see when you don’t give credit when credit is due…
“Nog won a fight he should have lost…” – be careful you’re not falling all over yourself to give him the credit he’s due bud.
Fact of the matter is Nogueira is known for taking a beating and snatching his opportunity to win the one time it’s presented to him. This was a typical Nogueira fight and props to him for taking it as usual.
“This should spell it out loud and clear to those who deny that there is a strong contingent of former pro wrestling marks in the MMA fanbase. I can’t remember if Angle or Taker got good pops too but they might have.”
I have a feeling the reason the pops for these guys were so big (Angle and Taker got some big pops fyi) b/c of all the hype and advertising put out to the pro wrestling fans this time around. I don’ t think you can say for sure that former pro wrestling marks have always made up a large portion of the fanbase, but I think it’s fair to say this was the case last night. People that used to watch wrestling were quite interested to see how one of their own would fair in “real fighting”.
It should be noted that A. Silva, Rampage and Nogueira all have prior cage/octagon experience in Cage Rage, King of Cage and WEF respectively. Fedor to my knowledge has not had any cage experience and should be questioned until he does step in one.
Regardless of the success of the three fighters above, I think the “overrated” label for Pride fighters still applies because the prevailing thought was that none of UFC fighters could hang with the Pride ones. That clearly isn’t true. That’s not to say that Pride fighters are garbage, but that the notion that they were vastly superior is in fact a myth. Tim holding his own against Nog before getting submitted is another example of that.
Eitherway, I’m ecstatic that Nog is the UFC HW champ! His title reign in Pride was one of the most memorable and it was sad to see his legacy get dimished by the rise of Fedor.
“Tim’s always wanted to fight Fedor. In fact, it was Fedor who supposedly made demands that he never face Sylvia if he signed with the UFC, not the other way around.”
What? source? where you get your info from Dana himself LOL ..In an interview I watched on “inside mma” Fedor said he wanted to fight Tim when he came to the US but the UFC and TIM said no and thats when coleman stepped in. UFC had a chance to put their heavyweight champ against Pride’s and they said no. And now their doing it with Randy. –Off the subject– UFC should just end the debate and do a co promotion with M1 and make the fight happen with Fedor.
i actually thought Tim was going to win when UFC first mmentioned the fight. I believed that Nog has already hit his prime and i was surprised to see him win.. which in my opinion made it even more humiliating for Tim in my eyes.
Rampage vs. Chuck .. i gave it to Chuck for the fact 1) that the fight was now in “his” house. 2) Rampage left Pride with some hard losses and it seemed he was never the same after he got his ribs broken and knocked the fuck out by Wandy.
Chuck vs. Wandy.. i gave it to Chuck. 1)wandy was never the same after getting his face mashed in by crocop and then fighting (i felt too soon) and getting his ass knocked out by Hendo.
I still give cred to Wandy for jumping up weight classes and fighting out of his norm (crocop/hunt). Something i would like to see Chuck and UFC do with open weight tournaments.
I also give cred to Chuck as a Top US fighter. But not the best pound for pound fighter in the world as some would claim.
Now that PRIDE veterans have the UFC’s Heavyweight, Light heavyweight and Middleweight titles, I think the debate is over about which company had the ‘best of the best’ as far as talent is concerned.
The new question is this: who can defeat PRIDE’s #2 man, Nogeuira?
UFC lost their chance at signing Fedor, and apparently, Dana White “Doesn’t give a shit” about Josh Barnett. So the #1 and #3 Heavyweights in the world will not get a shot at Nogeuira. Randy Couture is in limbo, and Andre Arlovski is out of the picture. So there goes two more top 10 heavyweights.
Another PRIDE veteran, Fabricio Werdum, is lining up for the next shot. So if/when Nog beats Werdum, are we looking at a rematch with Captain NyQuil, Tim Sylvia? Frank Mir? Or (this is frightening)…a fight against Cheik Kongo?
On top, the UFC is rapidly running out of options…
No commission worth it’s salt in the US would allow an open weight tournament. So “unfortunately” we’ll never see anything like that here.
Amy Robinson just likes to whine about Meltzer for some reason. Actually if Amy can’t see that Lesnar came out looking like a potential future star last night I don’t think she carries any credibility at all.
“It should be noted that A. Silva, Rampage and Nogueira all have prior cage/octagon experience in Cage Rage, King of Cage and WEF respectively. Fedor to my knowledge has not had any cage experience and should be questioned until he does step in one.”
I think elbows would be more of a worry to Fedor than the cage. With Fedor’s style, I don’t think the cage would hurt him like it would hurt Cro Cop or the Chute Boxe guys. If Fedor was in the UFC, I could see Randy elbowing him in the face, opening up a cut, working that cut and getting a cut stoppage. Fedor is an easy bleeder.
I’ve never been a fan of elbows. They are a cheap way to get a cut and not much else. In UFC 80, I think I counted at least 3 guys intentionally using an elbow to cut a guy. Joe Stevenson was bleeding like a fountain in that match. I don’t see the purpose of elbows on the ground. Ground n Pound was fine the way it was in PRIDE. I’d take PRIDE’s knees to the head and Fedor’s ground n pound over short elbows on the ground any day.
“Eitherway, I’m ecstatic that Nog is the UFC HW champ! His title reign in Pride was one of the most memorable and it was sad to see his legacy get dimished by the rise of Fedor.”
Nog is a really tough SOB after taking such a beating from Fedor on the ground and still not getting knocked out. Fedor’s Ground n Pound is absolutely vicious.
Lot’s of Pride vs UFC romos posting on here.
Nice.
What? source?
Meltzer.
UFC had a chance to put their heavyweight champ against Pride’s and they said no.
What a brilliant marketing strategy: Give your promotional competition your heavyweight champion in their American debut! Think about that one. PRIDE didn’t seem so okay with just handing Wanderlei over to the UFC either, if you want to start making arguments about what PRIDE did. Besides, I seem to remember several guys under UFC contract in PRIDE *in Japan*. Ricco/Noguiera, anyone? It so happens none of them were champions though.
As for the Noguiera/Werdum talk, god, that fight will be awful.
“Now that PRIDE veterans have the UFC’s Heavyweight, Light heavyweight and Middleweight titles, I think the debate is over about which company had the ‘best of the best’ as far as talent is concerned.”
I think that debate was settled when UFC veterans took Pride’s first Grand Prix, Middleweight and Welterweight titles.
Well I’d hate to see when you don’t give credit when credit is due…
Look at yourself in the mirror, Gaijin. That’s you. When was the last time you admit you’re wrong?
“Nog won a fight he should have lost…” – be careful you’re not falling all over yourself to give him the credit he’s due bud.
So you’re telling me Nog didn’t get his ass handed to him for the first two rounds? He was losing on points as well as in terms of damage dealt.
Are you not going to give Sylvia the credit HE deserves? If you had to write the up the review for the fight, I’d assume you would claim that Nogueira destroyed Sylvia, right?
Mixed martial arts is about being inclusive not exclusive. The more you take out, the less it is MMA. If you support knees, you should support elbows. As to the argument that its cheap and its causes cuts, its a part of the game. I liked how the cut on Stevenson forced him to push the action and it made him push the action and that made it a much more dramatic and exciting fight. If fighters don’t want to get cut, they shouldn’t put themselves in a position to be cut.
I love how on Inside MMA, every fighter they asked about elbows has no issue with it and despite all the great points that they raise in support of it, Bas is adamantly against elbows.
Hey props to Sylvia he damaged Nog but couldn’t put him away – his style is basically the antithesis of finishing guys off because it involves *gasp* taking a risk. Sylvia was pretty uncharacteristically aggressive until he scored the knockdown, then he seem ever content to revert to his old, plodding win via decision style. Not to mention that Nog has NEVER been finished in any fight.
So sure, Sylvia was winning on points and damage done but he was less and less dominating as the fight went on – do I think people are greatly exaggerating the amount of “damage” he did? Yes, I do. He dropped him one time and then like Herring couldn’t finish the job. As the fight wore on Nog started to gain momentum, scoring some takedowns and successfully pulling guard. I don’t think that a lot of people didn’t start to think, “it’s only a matter of time before Nog catches this guy.”
Fedor gave the blueprint on how to beat the man – and it wasn’t by taking him out on the feet. You have to be able to pound it out on the ground, in his wheelhouse and if you aren’t one of the best sub-defence guys around – you will eventually get caught.
But I guess this is where we should throw in something about steroids and puffed up/can-fed records of PRIDE fighters – b/c that’s the “proof” you were so certain you were going to get Saturday night and yet it didn’t come. Maybe if you say it enough times…it might come true?
If you’re going to bring up steroid abuse again, then fine.
Nog proves that he’s a top heavyweight. His fight did nothing to disprove the allegation of rampant steroid use in Pride.
If anything, I’m even more impressed that Fedor dominated in an organization filled with so many steroid abusers. He’s better than Rampage that’s for sure. Rampage could never get over the hump of fighting the steroid-abusing Chute box academy.
Are you not going to give Sylvia the credit HE deserves? If you had to write the up the review for the fight, I’d assume you would claim that Nogueira destroyed Sylvia, right?
Sylvia did about as well as Prime Mirko Cro Cop did, people. I doubt many people will want to make comparisons of 2003 Cro Cop and Big Tim though.
“Mixed martial arts is about being inclusive not exclusive. The more you take out, the less it is MMA. If you support knees, you should support elbows. As to the argument that its cheap and its causes cuts, its a part of the game. I liked how the cut on Stevenson forced him to push the action and it made him push the action and that made it a much more dramatic and exciting fight. If fighters don’t want to get cut, they shouldn’t put themselves in a position to be cut.”
PRIDE disallowed elbows to the head and it wasn’t any less MMA. Just as UFC disallowing knees to the head, soccer kicks and stomps isn’t any less MMA.
“I love how on Inside MMA, every fighter they asked about elbows has no issue with it and despite all the great points that they raise in support of it, Bas is adamantly against elbows.”
Frank Shamrock is also against elbows on the ground. He’s ok with them used in standing Muay Thai though.
I think Cage Rage’s policy on elbows in the best. They are banned on the ground but legal standing. Standing elbows have KO power (see Anderson Silva’s HL Elbow KO over Frkylund) whereas elbows on the ground cause cuts more than anything. In the UFC it’s very common to see guys use elbows to cut a guy and you saw that a lot in UFC 80. No one wants to see a cut stoppage and it’s cheap to cut a guy intentionally with an elbow and then work a cut hoping for stoppage. Fans generally boo when fights end like that.
“If anything, I’m even more impressed that Fedor dominated in an organization filled with so many steroid abusers. He’s better than Rampage that’s for sure. Rampage could never get over the hump of fighting the steroid-abusing Chute box academy.”
I LOVE that this is the argument that’s always put up by people when it appears their shitty steroid argument doesn’t hold as much water as they thought it did before.
I guess in an organization where you just assume everyone was taking part in rampant steroid abuse, you then just change your argument to state that “everyone abused steroids in the organization….except for fighter A.” Right…the entire Chute Boxe team abused steroids and that was it! They were the only team that found the loophole in the system…*rolls eyes* This is the best argument you can come up with? Everyone cheated – except for the guys its most convenient for my argument to mean f*ck all.
Yep – that makes the most sense. It’s either one of two things:
*(a) Since it was known there was no testing – everyone was abusing the PEDs and so it was just as even a playing field b/c everyone was on something; or
*(b) it’s nowhere near the levels you’d love to make it out to be and likely isn’t any different than the current IQ test that happens in the US.
Funny that the argument just changes every time that it becomes convenient to change it.
Let me ask you a few brain teasers:
What’s the “performance enhancing drug of choice” amongst athletes these days? – HGH.
What’s a drug that’s never tested for in by any athletic commission in the US or in Japan?
– HGH.
What country has been proven at least in the last 10 years (if not for longer) to be among the worst, if not the worst of “doping” nations?
– The US.
What country has maybe the easiest access to illicit PED’s via one of the most porous borders w/ the most unregulated medical system in the free world?
– The US via Mexico.
But hey – it’s the one team from Brazil, fighting in Japan that’s breaking all the rules.
Convenient and horseshit argument you have there isn’t it?
Yeah, there were a lot of cuts in UFC 80, but none of the fights were stopped because of it. I agree with what Big John said about elbows. The true spirit of MMA is about blending and utilizing anything that available. That’s what makes MMA so exciting because anything can happen. If you consider yourself a MMA purist, you have to support both elbows and knees because they both add a different dimension to the game. If you take away elbows and knees, it reduces your options and that’s moving away from what MMA is about.
Never understood the criticism of elbows. The percentage of fights stopped by cuts from elbows is something like 2%.
“If you take away elbows and knees, it reduces your options and that’s moving away from what MMA is about.”
Naw, it’s still MMA without them. Without them it is straying away from it’s foundations, when everyone was calling it Vale Tudo, which translates into “No Holds Barred”.
But hey – it’s the one team from Brazil, fighting in Japan that’s breaking all the rules.
Convenient and horseshit argument you have there isn’t it?
Fighters in the US are caught abusing drugs even when they are tested.
Fighters in Japan are not tested. Is it a reach of logic to conclude that there is rampant steroid abuse there, far more than they are here where steroid testing is implemented?
Are you saying that fighters fighting in Japan refrain from using steroids because they are noble warriors with a strong sense of ethics?
Damn, man. Just use some logic instead of arguing for argument’s sake!
While you would think there would be more steroid abuse in Japan because it’s legal there, we have no evidence of this. Those who say “Chute Boxe was juicing but Rampage, Nogueira and Anderson Silva (who was in chute boxe btw) were clean!” are just speculating. No one has any proof that they were juicing. PRIDE haters are using Nogueira, Rampage and Anderson Silva as exceptions to justify their speculation that PRIDE fighters = juicers. What about Dan Henderson? He faired very well against Rampage for being such a small guy. Is Dan one of those exceptions too? Is every PRIDE fighter that does well in the UFC an exception?
“Is every PRIDE fighter that does well in the UFC an exception?”
Yes, can’t you see how this argument works? It’s the most convenient explanation and therefore it’s true.
Proof that PRIDE fighters cheat is when they lose fights, when they are dominant and win fights – they are the exception. Except the “exception” is growing with each event.
“Damn, man. Just use some logic instead of arguing for argument’s sake!”
It’s just as easy to use logic to say that it’s been proven time and again that the AC testing is easily manipulated. So are we to believe people aren’t manipulating it b/c they are noble warriors with a strong sense of ethics?
My point being – the sword cuts both ways. You can’t have your cake and eat it too.