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UFC 81 (2/2 Las Vegas)
By Zach Arnold | February 2, 2008
Event results: MMA Weekly | Sherdog | The Fight Network | MMA Junkie | Bloody Elbow | Total MMA | Observer
According to this report, Steve Austin, The Undertaker, and JBL are at the building.
Somewhere in the world, Antonio Inoki is crying about Brock Lesnar’s loss.
And now we’re going to get Nogueira vs. Werdum for the heavyweight title soon.
Post-mortems from the press:
- Los Angeles Times: Lesnar doesn’t last one round in UFC bout
- The Canadian Press: Lesnar only lasted 90 seconds in his UFC debut
- The Washington Post: Mir capitalizes on early error by Lesnar in UFC 81
- The Associated Press: Mir spoils Lesnar’s UFC debut
- Steve Cofield: Reality bites – Mir submits Lesnar at UFC 81
- Steve Sievert: Mir exposes Lesnar at UFC 81
- MMA Opinion: Lesnar’s UFC debut falls short during UFC 81
- Any Given Saturday: UFC 81 post-show audio recap with Luke Thomas & Jeff Hamlin
- Oliver Copp: UFC 81 post-fight press conference audio clips
- Dave Meltzer: Brock Lesnar shows superstar potential in loss
Plus, an update on Andrei Arlovski.
Topics: Media, MMA, UFC, WWE, Zach Arnold | 77 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |
Unlike rumors, Couture is allowed to corned Tyson Griffin. Yet, the UFC cameras took a major close-up of Griffin, so nobody at home had a clue, unless they recognized the voice….
I assume if Marquardt beats Horn, that we will see a Marquardt vs. Almeida II. Which would be a very good fight. And the winner might not get the next title shot, but would put himself in line for one. Likely behind Yushin Okami….
Frank Mir answered the CALL OF DUTY, and so should you.
PLAY CALL OF DUTY 4.
Nice segue.
If Nogueira has one thing, it’s limitless amounts of heart.
And the fact that you can’t count him out because he can sub you even while getting punched in the face.
Big Nog pulls it out again.!!!!!!!!!
Awwww – too bad eh cyphron another “overrated” PRIDE fighter wins.
Which just goes to show that it’s mainly the fighters need time to make an adjustment to fighting in the cage and under different rules than being overrated.
LOL at the Inoki line.
At least he still has Barnett…
Unbelievable fight for Nogueira. He got wrecked for the first round, and lost the second round. The guy has so much heart.
This was just another one of Nog’s fights where he absorbs everything his “monster” opponent throws at him and then pulls out the spectacular victory from the jaws of defeat.
Maybe Fedor’s legacy isn’t so overrated as some of you people would like to let on…
I love big nog. This was a good measuring stick. This puts fedor’s legacy on lockdown.
Noguiera is the man! If you want to see this man’s “heart” in action, watch his fight against Bob Sapp years ago. Now THAT is coming back from an absolute ass-whooping. I remember watching that fight years ago, and I though Sapp was gonna put Minotauro in a coma, then Minotauro comes back with a submission, Sapp taps, the end. I couldn’t believe it.
So, did UFC advertise TNA Against All Odds? I bet not.
I assume Nogueira is the #2 guy still in the world, above Couture… with Sylvia being #4….
I wonder if the UFC will drop the idea of a Nog-Werdum rematch, that likely no one in the US wants to see and go with Nog-Mir instead.
Given all the hype that was thrown into Lesnar I think this win gave Mir a pretty big rub – I guess we’ll have to wait and see what the ppv buys are for tonight’s show.
Awesome night for Nogueira! Excellent fight, and an excellent finish.
And best of all, I have some great quotes that I’m going to keep reading over and over…
IceMuncher
“I also happen to have $100 on Sylvia at +170. I only bet when the big favorite (imo) is a decent underdog according to the bookies. Tim’s style is just too much for Nog. I think he has the advantage standing, and I don’t think Nog’s TDs are good enough to take it the ground.”
Aaron Crossen
“Sylvia by decision. Sylvia’s ground game is – and I hate to say it – very good. Plenty good enough to neutralize most of Nogueira’s straight armbars or lazy kimura attempts”
cyphron
“In either case, we shouldn’t assume any top ranked fighters from Japan will make a big splash when they come over.”
And my personal favorite:
D. Capitated
“Noguiera being the favorite in spite of possessing none of the skills needed to beat Big Dim is proof that PRIDE bias is far from dead.”
So the lazy, overrated PRIDE fighter with no skills was apparently good enough to beat Captain NyQuil, Tim Sylvia.
Vive la PRIDE bias!
That was a beautiful reply.
“Frank Mir answered the CALL OF DUTY, and so should you.
PLAY CALL OF DUTY 4.
Nice segue.”
That was classic.
Honestly, who doesn’t love Goldberg? He’s like that goofy but lovable teacher we all had in school. He’ll sit up there in front of the class and spend 45 minutes talking about stuff he honestly has no clue about and often gets flat-out wrong, all the while making corny jokes and chuckling. Sure, the “cool” kids in the back may snicker and complain, but that guy was freaking awesome.
The UFC losing Goldie would be a travesty. You’ll all see what I mean if he’s ever sick and can’t make a broadcast.
You can usually tell when the “desired result” does not take place because the hyperbole gets ratcheted up to “insane.” In this case, within minutes of Lesnar tapping, Mike Goldberg said said that Lesnar lost his UFC debut to “one of the best ever” (and this was not one of the times that he said “one of the best submission heavyweights ever,” it was just plain “one of the best ever”). Then, during the show-ending video package, Goldberg actually said that both Mir and Lesnar showed tonight why they are both worthy of being called two of the best heavyweights in the world.
IceMuncher
“I also happen to have $100 on Sylvia at +170. I only bet when the big favorite (imo) is a decent underdog according to the bookies. Tim’s style is just too much for Nog. I think he has the advantage standing, and I don’t think Nog’s TDs are good enough to take it the ground.”
Dude, where was I wrong in that analysis? Sylvia absolutely worked him standing and Nog’s TD’s were horrendous. I feel more vindicated than humbled. At +170, I’m sure you would have been more than willing to buy my ticket off me after that 2nd round was over.
It’s a fight, nothing is set in stone. If I was foolish enough to think Sylvia was 100% going to win I’d bet my house instead of $100.
I don’t really see anything wrong with the way Ice came to his conclusion – he was pretty much right on all accounts.
I think where he erred was in discounting Nog’s uncanny ability to absorb a beating and take advantage of a single opportunity that comes his way. His finishing ability when presented with that one chance is next to none.
I wanted to barf at all the love they were giving to Lesnar, clearly they were banking on him winning. If I had to listen to Rogan blather on about how “athletic Lesnar is”, “his hands are the size of canned hams”, “his head is like a toaster oven” blah blah….come on man – quite sounding like a wrestling commentator. And Goldberg sounded like a kid in a candy store everytime he saw a pro wrestler in the crowd – wtf?
Referring to “cautious” or “boring” MMA fighting by using the word “humping”: It’s not just for drunken fans in the audience anymore!
“”He was trying to finish and he came out and wasn’t just trying to fence hump for five rounds,” White said.”
from a Yahoo Sports story
“IceMuncher
“I also happen to have $100 on Sylvia at +170. I only bet when the big favorite (imo) is a decent underdog according to the bookies. Tim’s style is just too much for Nog. I think he has the advantage standing, and I don’t think Nog’s TDs are good enough to take it the ground.”
Dude, where was I wrong in that analysis? Sylvia absolutely worked him standing and Nog’s TD’s were horrendous. I feel more vindicated than humbled. At +170, I’m sure you would have been more than willing to buy my ticket off me after that 2nd round was over.
It’s a fight, nothing is set in stone. If I was foolish enough to think Sylvia was 100% going to win I’d bet my house instead of $100.”
Nice back peddling LOL. A win is a win dumb nut. 1)“Tim’s style is just too much for Nog. I think he has the advantage standing,” Half right here. He did have an advantage standing. WRONG on its was too much for NOG cuz obviously Tim couldn’t knock his ass out quick enough.
2)“and I don’t think Nog’s TDs are good enough to take it the ground.” WRONG here also… cuz if we were watching the same fight NOG took his ass down quick , got side control, swept him, and choked TIM out in less than a minute.
Nice try on the spin LOL
I don’t think IM was that far off by saying Tim’s stand up was too much for Nog. Tim battered him on the feet and it was clear to everyone including Nog, that the only way he was going to win was on the ground.
Also he didn’t score a take down, he pulled guard and then swept Tim.
That was an absurd penalty on Brock by Mazagatti, one accidental blow to the back of the head caused by Mir turning his head away and he took away a point, reset them, and gave Mir time to recover. Yet earlier in the night, in the Tyson Griffin fight he also reffed, there were many blows to the back of the head and all he did was give warnings. I honestly think Brock would’ve stopped Mir if they hadn’t been reset.
Noguiera did a great job playing punching bag for 13 minutes and nearly getting stopped en route to win. Hey, hats off to him. Its not the first time he’s won in this manner but a win is a win. It counts, and congrats to him.
I laughed far more when I saw Mir getting ready to scissor the leg and Lesnar had no idea it was coming. That was karmic for the UFC.
Sylvia’s sub-defence is terrible. He basically left his arm out there for Nog to snatch at will and when that didn’t work he rolled right into a guillotine.
again Tim’s stand up was not “to much for Nog.” In my opinion, if it was Nog would have lost. Nog would not have found a way to close the distance and put the fight to the ground. Whats even more humiliating is that with Tims reach advantage, and Tim tagging Nogs head,… flooring him a couple times he could not finish the fight. Nogs experience showed last night. I don’t give a rats ass how anybody spins it. If one fighter is knocking the shit out of another but can’t finish the fight and his opponent ends up winning from a technical submission (TD/Pull in to guard,side control,sweep,guillotine)… its called skill and the other fighters punching power and striking ability didn’t do shit in the fight cuz at the end of it all he lost. Now it would be different if Nog started swing haymakers in desperation and Tim’s head just happen to be in the way… in that case i would call that a lucky win.
And f hypotheticals like guys where shouting when I watching the fight.. “if the fight stayed on its feet Tim would have won” If it went more rounds Tim would have won” “one more good flurry from tim and Nog would have been out”
We don’t live in a world of what ifs.
Can you tell i don’t really like Tim LOL. Its hard for me to execpt him as a heavywieght bad ass if he has never left the US to fight others in the world. Sorry if i look at MMA as a World Sport instead of just the UFC.
The PRIDE haters got their just desserts tonight. Big Nog, Rampage and Anderson Silva, all champions! And then Mir proved all the doubters wrong. Still, Brock put on a great performance for a newb. His Ground n Pound is absolutely vicious. He’s a big asset to a heavyweight division that’s badly in need of depth. Brock has a lot of potential going for him.
I think their one problem lies in what to do with Brock at this point. Do they feed him some lesser lights to build him up and allow him to work out the kinks? Or do they keep putting him in against the big names (i.e. Sylvia) and do the whole trial by fire?
I fucking hate MMA fans.
Instead of “Holy shit, we just saw Big Tim take on Big Nog… something we thought we’d NEVER see 2 years ago” we get “Eat a dick, TUF noob, Ultimate Faggot ChampionSHIT got pw3nd!”
Whatever.
Last night TWICE vindicated the classlic MMA narrative – martial artist uses technique to overcome stronger, larger opponent. It’s amazing that 15 years after Royce Gracie conquered the UFC, jiu-jitsu still reigns supreme.
Is it really any different than – “BoSox beat the Yankees, eat that Bronx fans!” ??
I mean sure if people are talking as retardedly as you’ve “quoted”, it’s pretty dumb, but otherwise there’s always going to be someone “sticking it to” someone else – that’s a big reason we watch sports.
Brian – I hate the “what ifs” game that I’ve seen so many second guessers & other assorted dissatisfied sort of folks out there spinning today as well. It’s just absolutely ridiculous IMO.
Sylvia is never going to be anything even close to being a fav fighter of mine & ( barring a brain transplant ) he’s never going to be one of the world’s most exciting fighters either. But, the man deserves proper credit for using his physical advantages well & employing the skill set that he has in order to be a VERY difficult opponent for ANY heavyweight to face.
Sure, Arlovski walked thru him once, but in two subsequent meetings Sylvia proved to be a nightmare for him. And, Mir handled him rather easily as well in their meeting, but I’m sure that if you asked Frank if he expected to enjoy such a quick, effortless victory were they to meet again, he’d be honest enough to say “probably not”.
Not to repeat the obvious, but size-wise & stylistically, the guy is just a LOT of hard work for anyone to deal with. Hell, if the quotes attributed to him are true, then even Fedor recognizes this fact with his more or less saying that Sylvia would be the last on his list of opponents he’d want to fight in the future.
Not that I believe for a minute that he holds any fear in his heart for the former two time UFC champion, just that as a match up for him, Sylvia’s assets would be difficult to have to cope with. Especially if it were in a three round fight rather than a five rounder.
Styles make fights in virtually every combat sport & Tim Sylvia just happens to have the sort of style & natural assets that make even some of the very best in the world look bad against him.
I enjoyed how Dave Meltzer’s post-fight report on Yahoo said, “Most of the talk after the match was about Lesnar’s potential to be one of the most dominant heavyweights in mixed martial arts history.”
Wait a minute… what? I could even understand, “Most of the talk after the match was that Lesnar showed huge potential,” but the aforementioned hyperbole is just ridiculous.
what about Nog’s suspect cardio, isnt that waht all the experts were talking about? Even now that Nog has won there is almost more critisizim than praise for him on the internetz. Talk about Biased. In other News Tim looked very good–his striking was very impressive, he kind of made 1/2 a fan out of me with this fight
Re: Gaijin
Your example is more akin to fans of Nog bragging to fans of Tim (should they exist).
Honestly, the only time that situation would be valid was during the ’03 GP when it was clearly marketed as “Pride vs. the invading UFC.”
I guess what bugs me the most is insane, blind brand loyalty when fans of the sports should be supporting as much legitimate MMA as possible.
Gaijin – Where to go with their Lesner investment is,indeed, an interesting quandry for Dana & the boys now. I mean, as Dave2 said, perhaps the big guy DOES have a lot of potential, but how does the UFC allow him to reach it?
Feeding him to the established stars in his weight class, even just the “mid-card talent” like Heath Herring, Gonzaga etc. at this point, could very well put him into a 1-3, 1-4 hole pretty quickly.
But, when they’re paying him the big $$$ are they going to be happy with having to baby him along against the likes of,let’s say, the “Warpaths” of the world while he learns his trade on PPVs? Or even as the “special added attraction” on the occasional FIGHT NIGHT?
This is where I believe it would really benefit the UFC to have a regularly scheduled series along the lines of boxing’s FNF. Which would allow a green individual like Lesner to stay busy & gain experience against moderate opposition, rather than just being “thrown to the wolves” three times a year on big shows.
I see your point.
Honestly I think you’re just going to continue getting this whole “give and take” between fans of each organization for the near future. For the longest time you had the PRIDE hardcores who considered it to be the best in the world and held the UFC as having a few top fighters and the remainder being leftovers. Then when PRIDE went under and some PRIDE guys came over and underperformed the pendulum swung back and swung back in a hard, hard way. So you had UFC fans completely debasing PRIDE fighters, calling them overrated, with puffed up records and guilty of rampant illicit drug use and cheating. Now that it appears things have equalized and PRIDE fighters have made the required adjustments you’re just seeing them feeling vindicated and sticking it to all the people who they had to listen to incessantly rail against fighters they’d built up years of loyalty towards.
And I’m sure it will swing back the other way when UFC guys beat PRIDE guys and you’ll see the UFC fans who are sick of listening to the excessive smack talking PRIDE fans will no doubt be guilty of…unfortunately I don’t see it ending anytime soon.
It’ll be over when I tell my grandkids about Final Conflict ’05 and they scoff at me and say, “Oh, Grandpa… everyone knows Exxxtreme MoonBattle Fisticuffs fighters are better than everyone else.”
I should correct my above post a bit – *PRIDE fans initially held UFC to be a subpar and 2nd class organization, whom they said had few, if any, fighters that could compete with PRIDE fighters. Which probably is the biggest reason for the litany of daggers thrown once several big names from PRIDE came over and fell flat.*
Brock Lesnar needs to be built up first and has to improve his skills. Lesnar is a monster but Mir’s Jiu-Jitsu is pretty slick and under-rated. He can also take a punch and recover.
“Brock Lesnar needs to be built up first and has to improve his skills.”
My thinking is just that given the money Lesnar is being paid, plus the hype and splash that he’s made coming into the UFC (i.e. Main event fight already) – I’m unsure if the fans will accept having him fight against the Hardonk’s, Colin Robinson’s and Eddie Sanchez’s of the HW world. I’m feel like they might feel as though they should be watching him fight the Herring’s and Gonzaga’s of the division and at this point in his career, I’m not sure he’s ready for that.
wow, Meltzer’s on Lesnars balls more than ever. All these horribly negative headlines from every other journalist and than Dave comes up with that golden softball.
I don’t think the money’s an issue. As much as they’re paying Lesnar, he means that much more to the company if they can build him into a huge drawing star. Fighting a few lower level guys may not draw immediately but getting proper ring seasoning may lead to greater confidence and improved performance when eventually he would face more highly competitive opponents.
I also think that due to lack of true mainstream coverage and UFC’s micromanagement of information most fans receive that they (the fans) will buy any fight within reason that the UFC promotes.
“My thinking is just that given the money Lesnar is being paid, plus the hype and splash that he’s made coming into the UFC (i.e. Main event fight already) – I’m unsure if the fans will accept having him fight against the Hardonk’s, Colin Robinson’s and Eddie Sanchez’s of the HW world. I’m feel like they might feel as though they should be watching him fight the Herring’s and Gonzaga’s of the division and at this point in his career, I’m not sure he’s ready for that.”
That’s true. Though if they put Brock in with Herring or Gonzaga and he loses, that’s going to hurt him more than putting him in with Hardonk, whom Brock can beat easily. The best fight for Brock next would be Hardonk or for a harder test, Sanchez.
Wow, it looks like the Pride fans are out in full force.
I give credit where credit is due. Nogueira pulled out a win where he almost got KOed several times.
If Nogueira has one thing, it’s limitless amounts of heart.
Very true.
Awwww – too bad eh cyphron another “overrated” PRIDE fighter wins.
Unlike you, Gaijin. I always give credit where credit is due. Nogueira won a fight that he should’ve lost. Nogueira would be a very bad match up for Couture.
I love big nog. This was a good measuring stick. This puts fedor’s legacy on lockdown.
It’s hard to argue with this statement. However, I’d still like to see him VS Sylvia. Style makes fight, so it’s hard to declare dominance based on MMA math. However, I believe he deserves his #1 ranking as long as he fights top competition.
Sylvia’s sub-defence is terrible. He basically left his arm out there for Nog to snatch at will and when that didn’t work he rolled right into a guillotine.
Agreed. Sylvia would be so dominant if only he wasn’t so one-dimensional.
Last night TWICE vindicated the classlic MMA narrative – martial artist uses technique to overcome stronger, larger opponent. It’s amazing that 15 years after Royce Gracie conquered the UFC, jiu-jitsu still reigns supreme.
I wonder when fighters will learn that Jiu-jitsu should be crucial to MMA? Maybe after this UFC.
All in all, it was a great UFC and answered a lot of questions about hype as well as the state of MMA.
Big Nog came through again. The guy has serious heart and can take a beating but like it or not his on the slide. I’m glad he won as I dont like sylvia but it cant be denied v herring nog was rocked and v sylvia again was hurt bad.
Glad Brock lost and hope the Inoki’s are real upset. Hey Simon, your man got beat!!!
Brock getting caught like that was amateurish. He left his leg there to be hooked when he was in control.
Amy: You read those headlines and then Meltz, and thought MELTZ showed bias? Seems to me like the media couldn’t wait to jump on Lesnar like a pack of wolves. Kind of like when Liddell vs. Jackson was “too short, not impactful and and blah blah”. What Meltzer reflects is far closer to reality: This was not devastating for Lesnar, and he showed a LOT of promise(unlike what we got to see in his first fight). IT WAS HIS SECOND MMA FIGHT! Who in the hell almost kills (a for once game)Frank Mir in his second fight? Lesnar looked a lot better here than Randleman did versus Shogun, and Lesnar is still learning. There is no questioning the talent and why UFC officials were happy. The issue is how you book the guy without creating a career-damaging losing streak.
Re: Goldberg marking out for WWE stars. Goldberg marks out for the bill payers. This was obviously part of the deal for the Lesnar-tapes, all the way down to listing amounts of WWE titles held in the graphics for Austin.
I wonder… Will they screw over Europe now by doing Nog – Werdum in London, then Nog – Mir back in Vegas? Makes sense.
IceMuncher
“I also happen to have $100 on Sylvia at +170. I only bet when the big favorite (imo) is a decent underdog according to the bookies. Tim’s style is just too much for Nog. I think he has the advantage standing, and I don’t think Nog’s TDs are good enough to take it the ground.
Dude, where was I wrong in that analysis? Sylvia absolutely worked him standing and Nog’s TD’s were horrendous. I feel more vindicated than humbled. At +170, I’m sure you would have been more than willing to buy my ticket off me after that 2nd round was over.
It’s a fight, nothing is set in stone. If I was foolish enough to think Sylvia was 100% going to win I’d bet my house instead of $100.”
Here is a link that might be helpful
http://www.sherdog.com/fightfinder/fightfinder.asp?fighterID=1440
You might notice a few things on this page. One, Nog has never been finished, EVER. And thats not due to lack of competition. Second he has only lost 4 times, 2 of those were split decisions(he also avenged both losses) and the other 2 were against the greatest fighter in the history of MMA (despite what 14 year old TUF fans think).
Was placing money on sylvia at +170 stupid? Nope. Was it smart? NOPE. If it was you would be sitting there with an extra 170 bucks in your pocket instead of pleading your case on fightopinion about what a good bet it was.
As for your question about anyone buying your ticket after round 2, well I wouldn’t have. Since I have seen Nog fight before (Cro Cop, Herring, Sapp) and know what Big Tim and everyone else with their head screwed on right knows, “Every fight he’s in, he gets his ass kicked for the first 10 minutes. You start getting comfortable fighting him, next thing you know it, he catches you. The guy is a legend in the sport.”
Notice how Stone Cold, probably the greatest WWE draw of all-time (considering how hot pro wrestling was during the Attitude era), got a huge pop by the audience? It rivaled the pop that Chuck Liddell got. This should spell it out loud and clear to those who deny that there is a strong contingent of former pro wrestling marks in the MMA fanbase. I can’t remember if Angle or Taker got good pops too but they might have. If I was in the audience, I would have popped too. I don’t watch pro wrestling anymore but I grew up loving to watch Austin and Taker. After Austin turned heel and the Rock went to Hollywood, that was around the time the product got stale.
Tim’s sub defense is by no means terrible. He’s actually a pretty good jiu jitsu player, he won some no gi tournaments well before he was an MMA bigshot. That was actually just a brilliant sweep by Nogueira, and I think Tim thought Nog would take his back instead of go for the guillotine after he lost the armbar. It was really just an awesome move.