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« | Home | »

After UFC 161, is Roy Nelson now Bellator-bound?

By Zach Arnold | June 15, 2013

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Event: UFC 161 (MTS Centre in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada) on Saturday, June 15th
TV: FX (undercard fights), PPV (main card)

UFC in Brazil: The T in Vitor stands for…

There’s a reason I’m always ahead of the curve when it comes to scandals in combat sports. Mock me at your own peril. My radar is that of a bloodhound.

For those who wanted MMA to be accepted as a mainstream sport, well… the one sport whose drug testing policy most resembles combat sports right now is horse racing. A baseball player gets busted for testosterone and all hell breaks loose. A testosterone user in UFC gets a promotional push.

The fruits of UFC’s drug policy (marijuana = bad, testosterone = OK) is bizarrely Japanese-like. It all starts from the top. In WWE, Vince McMahon wants a certain look and if you want to work for him, you have to provide that look. He is very image-conscious himself. Same deal with UFC management. They want muscular guys to market to the masses. They want a certain look. It’s why Roy Nelson stands out so much from the rest of the pack. The fighters take their cues from the top. They know that the lifespan of a fighting career in MMA is very short. If testosterone usage was simply a placebo effect, fighters would have stopped using it by now. Instead, the usage continues to increase. If it didn’t have some sort if impact, nobody would be using it now.

Just don’t say that I didn’t warn you ahead of time. I strongly believe that the fans deserve the truth and that you shouldn’t treat your readers as idiots. Sometimes, it means talking about uncomfortable topics or topics that you may be disinterested in. Bottom line? The masses (and the media) are coming around on the testosterone (anabolic steroids) topic. It doesn’t mean that fans still won’t show up to watch fights but it does indicate that the facade being produced for television is being understood for what it is.

So, when will the press start going after Jeff Davidson and Tim Trainor with vigor?

Kizer and Trainor, the self-proclaimed Sports Doctor of the Year, will do whatever the hell UFC wants done. Rubber stamp.

The commissions aren’t going to do anything. If anything, the tenuous financial & political nature of these regulatory bodies means they are more prone to allowing testosterone usage in order to get UFC cash.

California is open season for testosterone users. It has not slowed down since Andy Foster has become boss. Fact is fact.

So, the fighters using testosterone don’t want to defend themselves to the press. UFC management policy is supportive of T use but slams usage of marijuana. And the doctors involved in pushing or enabling the testosterone usage don’t want to talk and aren’t being pressured to talk either in the press or in the court system.

And, on the Vitor front, Dana White said he would face the winner of Anderson Silva/Chris Weidman… which has prompted Vitor to say that he would like to take a long vacation. Well played.

Event: UFC FX 8 (Arena Jaragua in Santa Catarina, Brazil) on Saturday, May 18th
TV: FX (cable/satellite)

UFC 160: Cain retains in 80 seconds & Gray Maynard loses shot against Ben Henderson

Event: UFC 160 (MGM Grand Garden Arena in Las Vegas, Nevada) on Saturday, May 25th
TV: FX (undercard fights), PPV (main card)

Nogueira, Dawson, and Josesito Lopez all lose on a busy combat sports weekend

A look at the fight cards:

Event: UFC Fuel 10 (Paulo Sarasate Arena in Fortaleza, Brazil) on Saturday, June 8th
TV: Fuel TV (cable/satellite)

Event: Golden Boy Promotions at Home Depot Center in Carson, California on Saturday, June 8th

Event: Bell Centre in Montreal, Quebec, Canada on Saturday, June 8th

Topics: Brazil, Media, MMA, UFC, Zach Arnold | 112 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |

112 Responses to “After UFC 161, is Roy Nelson now Bellator-bound?”

  1. 45 Huddle says:

    There is a lot of solid stuff in those 4 cards, but nothing that really is over the top great. Seems like a lot of the good fights will be happening in July & August….

  2. 45 Huddle says:

    Josh Barnett is talking about going to the UFC again…

    Just goes to show how few options there are out there for top tier, high paying fighters.

    WSOF doesn’t have the income and Bellator is a combination of lower pay and scaring away fighters with their antics.

  3. 45 Huddle says:

    TRT needs to be banned.

    I don’t actually think the UFC is avoiding the Commissions with Belfort being in Brazil. I think they really do need credible headliners for Brazil and they don’t have many. If they plan on running 8 or so shows there a year…. Aldo, Belfort, & Nogueira are going to be doing most of their fights down there from now on….

    *********

    Why does Belfort get all the TRT cr#p from the media? He isn’t the only one doing it…

  4. david m says:

    Belfort gets crap because he is a known former steroid user, and the difference in his physique from the Franklin fight (no TRT) to now is comical. To act like TRT isn’t giving him a huge boost, and making a mockery of the rules, is ridiculous. UFC looks like a joke because of this.

    • 45 Huddle says:

      Sonnen is a former steroid abuser…. And has been allowed to be on TRT and compete in both Nevada & New Jersey…. Two states that are supposed to be “strong” commission states.

      Where were the TRT questions for Sonnen?

      I am not debating that TRT is wrong. I think it should be banned. But Belfort getting all of the questions on it is laughable.

      • Zheroen says:

        Where were the TRT questions for Sonnen? Do you even read the articles Zach posts, or are you just feverishly hitting F5 to refresh the page so that you can post the latest unrlated Bellator demographics ratings so that you can get your sly digs in before anyone else?

        • 45 Huddle says:

          Zach is not the media. Belfort was getting many more questions from the media and the UFC was getting much more cr#p from it’s fans compared to the AC’s who allowed Sonnen to fight….

      • edub says:

        When did Sonnen get busted for steroids?

        Also, Sonnen was the poster child at the beginning for testosterone and he’s good at arguing. All he had to do was start arguing with people who asked him questions about it in the media, and they backed down. Pretty sad, IMO.

      • david m says:

        Please document Chael testing positive for steroids.

        Also, it is not laughable for a guy who is a blatant, admitted, cheater, to get questions about his blatant cheating.

        seriously go do an image search Vitor Belfort Rich Franklin and compare it with how he looked against Bisping.

        I wonder if marijuana can make your body change like that..

        • klown says:

          I am outraged by all the TRT users, but Vitor stands out to me because the difference in his appearance, and in his strength, speed and power… is kind of terrifying. He seems to have fire in his veins. Not all of that is TRT, I’m sure, but we’ll never know just how much of it Vitor deserves credit for until he stops the TRT and we see.

        • 45 Huddle says:

          Am I in a brizzaro world? Do people not remember Sonnen tested positive after his first loss to Anderson Silva?

          http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/sports_blog/2010/09/state-athletic-commission-says-suspended-ufc-fighter-chael-sonnen-tested-positive-for-steroids.html

          http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/mma/09/20/sonnen.drugtest/index.html

          http://www.mmafighting.com/2010/12/02/chael-sonnens-suspension-reduced-to-six-months-on-appeal

          He even tried to use TRT as an excuse for his doping, despite the fact that he should have never had that high of levels even if he was doing “proper” TRT use.

          And don’t make fun of weed use….. It does give fighters an advantage for training….

        • 45 Huddle says:

          klown,

          It is no more disturbing then Dan Henderson being 42 years old and still competing at this level. Or Sonnen going from a journymen to a title contender.

          Perhaps visually he looks different…. But fighting way past your prime years or greatly improving your rankings is far more alarming.

        • klown says:

          Ultimately, I agree, 45. The cases of Hendo and Sonnen are just as obscene. And all the rest of the TRT crew. Beside Belfort, Hendo is probably the most striking example of someone who appears to have dramatically benefited from the TRT.

        • edub says:

          Sonnen was on TRT when he failed for elevated levels. That was the start of his use. You made it seem like he failed before that for some other reason (ala Vitor’s failure in 2006).

          I agree to a point that all fighters on it is wrong. However, IMO fighters that have PED filled pasts (most specifically the ones caught for it) are the worst cases.

        • Megatherium says:

          I’m could have sworn Chael’s T levels were jacked to about twenty times normal for his title shot that almost ‘won’.

          I don’t think I’m hallucinating here.

        • 45 Huddle says:

          edub,

          Sonnen was not on TRT. He was roiding and tried to use TRT as an excuse.

          And even if he was on TRT (which he wasn’t)…. His levels were so beyond what is allowed that it became roiding anyways.

          Sonnen got busted for steroids…. And now uses TRT…. It should not be allowed.

        • edub says:

          That’s not only a story with no proof, but its not what anybody even thinks on the subject either.

          He was on TRT, and he took more injections than he needed to gain more of a performance enhancing aspect than he would have with just the normal amount.

          However, as you like to create arguments out of thin air I’ll expect some type of random rebuttal.

        • Megatherium says:

          TRT isn’t steroids just like pharmaceutical THC isn’t cannabis. Maybe Kizer can arrange a Sativex exemption for the Diaz brothers next.

          http://www.gwpharm.com/Sativex.aspx

        • Megatherium says:

          Marijuana has been thought to cause gynecomastia.

          Whether having man-boobs enhances fighting ability?

          I’m not sold on the idea.

        • 45 Huddle says:

          How is it is a story with no proof?

          1) Sonnen was caught with much higher levels then normal of testosterone in his system.

          2) Sonnen claimed it was for TRT.

          3) Sonnen claimed to the CSAC that he had been approved in Nevada for it.

          4) Keith Kizer came out and straight up said Sonnen as lying.

          5) Once pressed on the matter, Sonnen finally admitted he never even talked to Kizer about it.

          So how is there no proof again?

          Sonnen is a cheater who is being allowed to cheat even more.

        • edub says:

          …. and again, none of that is proof that Chael was doing anything else besides using TRT both illegally and with high amount injections.

        • 45 Huddle says:

          You really can’t be that dumb.

        • nottheface says:

          Everyone’s right. Chael never tested positive for a specific steroid. Not for 4-hydroxytestosterone, boldenone, fluoxymesterone, stanozolol, drostanolon, or any other anabolic steroid. But his T/E ratio was so high that it was indicative of a steroid. In this case, even though it could easily have been from massively overshooting himself with testosterone, being that far over the limit is ruled as evidence of using an anabolic steroid.

          In other words: calm down kids, all of you are right and either TRT or something else, Chael was cheating his ass off.

        • edub says:

          It really wouldn’t have to be that massive John. All it would take is an extra injection a few days before the fight (perhaps for a guy who is ungodly nervous about the biggest title shot of his career). It would throw his T/E ratio completely out of whack, especially if he thought he’d get away with it by saying “you know I have a prescription right”.

          However, I’m also of the opinion Chael was on TRT since at least the Okami fight (and possibly the Miller fight).

    • RST says:

      “TRT isn’t steroids just like pharmaceutical THC isn’t cannabis.”

      An 80 thousand dollar “A”, in the new normal!

  5. […] Fight Opinion—an MMA outlet consistently ahead of the game on drugs in the sport—outlines “the Vitor Belfort problem” best of all by showing that when it comes to The Phenom, his TRT use has the UFC scrambling to make the best of a bad look: […]

  6. klown says:

    Keep up the fight Zach, a lot of your readers are with you 100%.

    One day, soon, marijuana will be decriminalized, THC metabolites will no longer be tested for, and TRT will be banned or ultra-strictly regulated. And people will look at our era and shake their heads and wonder how this stupidity was able to reign for so long.

  7. david m says:

    I wrote a blog post about Vitor’s body transformation over the years. http://jews4ginobili.blogspot.com/2013/05/a-tale-of-two-vitors.html

  8. RST says:

    Apparently vitrtor got a little roid ragey at the post fight press conference and attempted to instigate an assault towards a writer from MMA junkie after he asked him about TRT.

    Well at least vitor openly supports disclosing your desire for violence towards people who ask you uncomfortable questions.

    • RST says:

      “They want a certain look. It’s why Roy Nelson stands out so much from the rest of the pack”

      And its why dana HATES Roy Nelson.

      “And, on the Vitor front, Dana White said he would face the winner of Anderson Silva/Chris Weidman”

      Vitor wants no part of flamderson. That humiliation haunts him IMO. Might even be part of what has driven him so feverishly towards TRT addiction. And he wouldn’t win that rematch even on TRT because its mental.

      BTW: Did it seem like Joe Silva kinda ambushed Rockhold a little bit? Rockholds first fight in a UFC cage he gets a dangerous TRT cheat in the TRT cheats own violent 3rd world country. Kind of like how they tried to throw Gegard under Gus for his first fight? Everlasting animosity towards the showtime/SF brand from the holding a grudge champions at zuffa?

      • smoogy says:

        Silva does that with any UFC interloper, not just those coming from Strikeforce.

        • 45 Huddle says:

          Not really. Of all the Strikeforce fighters making their debuts…. I have favored them in slightly over 50% of the fights. He is giving them very winnable fights.

          If Joe Silva really wanted to, he could have guaranteed a loss for 80% of the Strikeforce roster on the first try.

          ********

          Not to mention if a fighter is making “main event” level money…. The UFC is going to test them much earlier to see if they are worth that main event paycheck.

      • RST says:

        “Silva does that with any UFC interloper,”

        Whew! As long as I’m not imagining it!

  9. […] Fight Opinion—an MMA outlet consistently ahead of the game on drugs in the sport—outlines “the Vitor Belfort problem” best of all by showing that when it comes to The Phenom, his TRT use has the UFC scrambling to make the best of a bad look: […]

  10. Zach Arnold says:

    45’s point about Belfort getting heat on T use but not other fighters is a question I’ve wondered about all day myself. He’s right.

    Sonnen is a former steroid abuser…. And has been allowed to be on TRT and compete in both Nevada & New Jersey…. Two states that are supposed to be “strong” commission states.

    The heat Belfort’s gotten for T instead of Sonnen for the Jersey fight is very illogical in terms of balance. Sonnen is the most shameless of the T users and has benefited handsomely from it.

    • edub says:

      There’s no proof that he was a steroid user. There’s proof that his levels were out of whack from the over use of TRT.

      Sonnen was killed on the subject at first, than he fought back with a mixture of moxie and the Johnny Cochrane Chewbacca defense. The media shrunk up like they had hypogonadism.

    • RST says:

      MMA should not be a measure of how big of a “chansaw” you can afford! It should be a measure of what, and how you deal with what lord gave you! If Lord didn’t give you enough TRT, then you’re qualified to be a wall street banker!

      Move to new york!

  11. Buster says:

    Does the UFC regulate their shows in Brazil?

    If so, unlike the athletic commissions could they not take a hardline and not let fighters compete on TRT?

    “AC’s are dilly dallying around this issue but we’re black and white on it” type of thing?

    Or are they burying their head in the sand so to type and letting fighters just do whatever they want, TRT wise?

  12. Nepal says:

    Don’t forget about good ole fashioned patriotism. Hendo and Sonnan are American’s with gigantic fan followings. Belfort is not a heel but his following pales compared to those guys. Of course the media and fandom is going to go after Belfort.

    Remember how Randy looked when he fought Gonzaga??? Tell me Randy wasn’t doing something. He did not pass the eye test as Rockhold would say.

    Randy was Captain America, the media was not going to go after him despite bulging veins and extra muscle mass that we’d never seen before on him.

    • Megatherium says:

      Didn’t Rogan ‘let it blurt’ during a ppv broadcast years ago?

      • Nepal says:

        Not that I recall and I think I would recall. I remember at the time thinking “why does nobody call out Randy on this issue?”
        Rhetorically of course because I know why he doesn’t get publicly called out.

        • Megatherium says:

          Yes he did, he called it ‘hormone replacement therapy’ and endorsed the idea in the strongest possible terms. I had a major WTF experience at the time.

          http://www.mmaplayground.com/discussion/topic/big-mma-scandal-10583p1.html

          http://www.mmasucka.com/news/legitimate-trt/

          Rogan did mention it during a ppv broadcast during this period as well. I’m sure I recorded it; can’t find a record of it just yet but it happened. I’ll never forget it.

        • Nepal says:

          Ahaa, Rogan did make that comment. So much for my memory. It appears that it never made a big splash in the media. Belfort’s Brazilian, fair game to focus on him.

        • Megatherium says:

          Turns out your memory isn’t so bad after all Nepal. It was the Couture/Gonzaga bout at UFC 74 where Rogan commended Couture for his usage of the new Hormone Replacement Therapy wonder cure. You just missed the actual letting of the cat out of the bag, or have forgotten that detail.

        • Megatherium says:

          I’m pretty sure there was a round of discussion here at FO about it post fight.

    • Megatherium says:

      Yeah, I still think I recall Rogan blurting the “Randy’s on hormone replacement therapy”, and “this is a revolutionary breakthrough for older fighters” comments, followed by an uncomfortable silence and a quick topic change by Goldie during an actual ppv broadcast but I can’t find it just yet.

      This was back in the ’06-’07 period, I think, and yeah, it passed with minimal discussion, but a few alert types did bring it up, probably here during the Yakuza story period and one or two other places around the forums. I know I didn’t let it rest for a while.

  13. Megatherium says:

    It’s possible I saw the ESPN interview and I’m “misremembering” having heard him say it during the actual ppv broadcast. But he did say it, I did hear it, and I most certainly nearly fell out of my chair when I heard him say it.

    http://www.jiujitsuforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=6455

  14. RST says:

    Sounds like barnett is back in the ufc business.

    Good to see zuffa finally making it crystal clear how they feel about steroid cheats.

    Although if I had my druthers I would at least give them their own division so that they aren’t allowed to assault and damage the bodies and careers of real athletes.

    Which they’ve done to Jones twice now.

    This ufc is turning into some dirty pool IMO.

    I wonder if MMA is still a sport.

  15. david m says:

    I think Josh Barnett is a great fighter and much better than the vast majority of the HWs on the UFC roster. Good for him for sticking to his guns. Now, if he would only drop his incredibly lame pro wrestling schtick; that dude is stuck in in 1990.

  16. 45 Huddle says:

    For people who say that the Bellator contracts have not hurt them….

    http://www.mmafighting.com/2013/5/22/4351980/morning-report-chris-weidman-nearly-signed-bellator-ufc-dana-white-video-blog

    They could have signed Chris Weidman if it wasn’t for their bad contracts.

    ***********

    http://www.mmafighting.com/2013/5/22/4352374/recent-mma-retiree-john-cholish-now-lobbying-for-ufc-to-raise-fighter

    I understand what John Cholish is saying, but where is the perspective from the MMA Media on this topic?

    For PGA Events, half of the field plays for 2 days, doesn’t make the cut, and gets paid nothing. They end up losing money after they pay for their travel and caddie expenses.

    Or in Tennis, players can make basically nothing if they lose in the first round of a tournament, and certainly lose money once expenses are taken into consideration. A tennis player competing in mix doubles at the US Open gets $2,500 ($5k for team) for competing. That is far less then a minimum UFC payday and it is the biggest stage for tennis.

    Or what about Olympic Athletes. They are called “amateurs” so they basically don’t have to pay them. Most of these athletes are living off of nothing unless they get a huge sponsorship deal on the side.

    Don’t get me wrong….. I would love to see the minimum fighter pay increased to a minimum of $10k/$10k. And I do think a pension needs to be put into place for the fighters who have been around long enough (in the ATP, you need to have competed in 10 tournaments for each of 5 years in order to qualify for the pension).

    It isn’t a shock that Luke Thomas (the author) is not bringing up these facts. It doesn’t help his anti-UFC viewpoint. But when compared to sports in America, the UFC pay isn’t a big issue…. certainly not as much as some of the media tries to make it seem.

    • nottheface says:

      There’s really no comparison between the PGA and MMA. In 2012 forty-five PGA events paid out a total of $279 million in prize money, more than all the UFC fighters were paid from 2005-2011. As for those not making any money, well that is true but anyone who finishes the event is guaranteed a prize. Those finishing 70th on an event get $12,800. The 100th biggest winner in 2012 made $1 million. Everyone in the top 200 made more than $200,000. There is also the fact that every golfer who makes the cut has an equal opportunity and that the prize money split was actually decided by the PGA members themselves. There is really no comparison to be made between the PGA and MMA.

      In tennis its basically the same thing with 128 men (and 128 women) each making around $25,000 to compete in the first round of any of the Grand Slam tournament. Total prize money from those four alone runs over $100 million. That’s not counting the per diem either. Again, I don’t think that’s a good comparison to the UFC or MMA either.

      The truth is that the because the UFC has done a great job they have a monopoly over a sport like the other major leagues but don’t have to worry about organized labor or individual team competing over talent. Its the best of all worlds for them.

      • 45 Huddle says:

        And GSP, by fighting two times this year, will make more then anybody else on the PGA Tour did last year. Of course the PGA Tour has more money to pay out. They have more events and are bigger then the UFC.

        We are not talking about the highest paid athletes in these leagues. We are talking about how they treat the lowest level athletes.

        And for the PGA, they do not pay some of their athletes and force them to have out of pocket expenses. According to a Forbes article, the out of pocket cost of a full time PGA player is $110,000 for the season. Which means most of the athletes are losing money in order to play the game. They are following a pipe dream.

        In Tennis Grand Slams, there are rounds before the 1st Round, which you did not mention….. Qualifying rounds. Which is about the equivalent of a Facebook Fight for the UFC. And a loser of the 1st qualifying (US Open) round gets $3,000. A loser of the 2nd round gets $5,775. There is much more money coming into Tennis then there is the UFC, and yet they are paying their lowest tier athletes worse.

        And that is the point I am making. That in other individual sports, most of the lower tier athletes are chasing a dream. They are losing money to try and play the sport they love. Even in leagues like the PGA that have a large number of good payouts throughout the year. The lower end guys need financial support outside of their winnings in order to continue their dream. This is NO DIFFERENT then what is happening in the UFC or the smaller organizations around MMA.

        Here is a great article talking about the struggles for a golfer trying to make it….

        http://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelnoer/2012/02/08/ben-martin-pga-tour/

        “Golfers are like entrepreneurs in other respects. Failing significant family wealth, young players are forced to find financial backers, typically in return for a share of their future winnings. And unless they have professional representation, they must also book their own travel, do their own accounting (Ben paid taxes in six states and Canada last year), negotiate endorsement deals and hire—and fire—caddies and coaches.

        It costs a minimum of $110,000 to compete for a year on the PGA Tour—$75,000 on the Nationwide—and there are no guaranteed paydays. Each week the worst-scoring half of the field is eliminated after the second day of the four-day tournament and earns nothing. But players who fail to make the cut are still responsible for their travel expenses and must pay their caddies.”

        It sounds a LOT like the struggles of a typical up and coming MMA fighter. Trying to make it in the UFC is no different then trying to make it in the PGA Tour…. You will most likely lose money unless you are great enough to break to that next level….

        **************

        And this topic that the UFC is a monopoly is such garbage. First, they are not not a monopoly by definition. Secondly, they do not control the world market of MMA. The reality is that the MMA business is basically impossible to run on a large scale for a profit. That is why nobody around the world can start an organization and compete with the UFC.

        • nottheface says:

          Looking at the FTC guidelines I think they meet the definition of a monopy:

          “Courts do not require a literal monopoly before applying rules for single firm conduct; that term is used as shorthand for a firm with significant and durable market power… That is how that term is used here: a “monopolist” is a firm with significant and durable market power. Courts look at the firm’s market share, but typically do not find monopoly power if the firm (or a group of firms acting in concert) has less than 50 percent of the sales of a particular product or service within a certain geographic area. ”

          Under those guidelines it’s hard for me not to label the UFC a monopoly. I’m surprised how hesitant so many are to label them a monopoly, since being one in itself is not illegal as long a they aren’t doing any antitrust violations.

          As for the pay for bottom end fighters: yes I agree it is just as hard for other sports, or acting, or any of the other “dream” jobs. But I also think there is something strikingly different between golfers and tennis players who compete for prize money their associations had a hand in negotiatng and in which the “promoter” of the event is a non-profits whose revenue goes to supporting the sport at all levels and a privately held company making large profits. And I’m not saying Zuffa is doing anything wrong, they are doing everything right in their book, but in my opinion, there really is no comparision.

    • Alan Conceicao says:

      I told Snowden in a IM yesterday that I thought it was BS, and that the guy yanking the curtain complaining that he can’t afford to pay some dude to come down to Brazil for a week and hose him down with water between rounds has his priorities messed up. So Jon stole it and it started a twitter war and we lul’ed. Just because you fight on a UFC card doesn’t mean you should be getting treatment like you’re the champion. If fighting for 8K guaranteed in the UFC isn’t a moneymaking proposition for you the way you want, your manager shouldn’t be putting you in that contract for that money. End of story.

      • Jonthan Snowden says:

        Kayfabe is dead.

        • Alan Conceicao says:

          Hey that one dude made like 50 posts about how no-names needed personal nutritionists. It was all worth it.

      • 45 Huddle says:

        And it would be a bigger issue if those guys who were winning weren’t getting bigger paydays.

        As long as the UFC keeps the system that allows the better fighters to move up the payscale, there won’t be problems.

        I wrote a huge response to the comments above and then it got lost in the interwebs after I pressed sent.

        But the jist of it is that Americans in general have OK’d the idea that athletes will completely struggle financially while working up to their dream. As long as the guys who do make it big get huge paydays…. The fans are happy. MMA is no different.

        Besides, guys like Cholish have no business in the UFC to begin with. The UFC roster is bloated.

  17. Megatherium says:

    I thought that Bellator got those contracts via corporate espionage from UFC? That they’re, you know, basically standard UFC contracts?

    Am I ‘misremembering’?

  18. 45 Huddle says:

    The lineal championship is on the line tomorrow….

    That has to count for something, despite the fact that Cain should blow Silva out of the water.

    • Alan Conceicao says:

      Yup. Finally get that loose end tied up once and for all. I don’t care enough to predict the winner. Dudes with no striking defense, little gloves, and a propensity to trade at ill advised times means either guy could get shut off. Bigfoot’s the guy who isn’t as good a wrestler amd has been comprehensively outgrappled by top control guys, which Cain is, so that’s a strike against him that’s significant. But then Cain probably should have beaten Dos Santos the first time and instead Junior came out of that with people thinking he would hold the belt for a million years.

  19. RST says:

    Hopefully zuffas steroid agenda will just culminate in arming each guy with a chainsaw,
    instant gratification!

    “Rounds” are so last week

  20. Steve4192 says:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRD78wtOZKg&feature=youtube_gdata

    Anyone following the Brett Atchley story?

    Invicta just banned him from their events. Probably signals the end of his career as an agent, given that most of his clients are women (many of whom have already jumped off the sinking ship).

  21. 45 Huddle says:

    Very good UFC 160 card overall. Despite all 4 prelim fights going the distance, I thought the entire 2 hours was very entertaining.

    The PPV was also very good. I am shocked anybody was picking Maynard to beat Grant. I wonder if they will do Henderson/Grant on FOX Sports 1.

    The main event’s result was easily predictable. At least it sets up the 3rd JDS/Cain fight. Both are 10-1 in the UFC with their lone loss being to each other. They are without question the 2 best fighters in the UFC today.

    • Tradition Rules says:

      Well, without questions the best two HEAVYWEIGHTS in the UFC today.

      But,an argument CAN be made for “best overall”. 🙂

  22. david m says:

    Glover could give JJ some problems. That dude is an animal. I wouldn’t pick anyone but JJ over him at 205 at this point (unless you count Cormier as a LHW).

    Mark Hunt did pretty well; for all the talk about how mma has advanced over the years, remember that Mark Hunt’s career peak came in 2001 when he won K1 GP. Even a dozen years later, he was able to keep JDS scurrying backwards for large portions of the fight.

    J2S vs Cain 3 should be either in Mexico City or somewhere in Brazil; that would be an amazing atmosphere.

  23. RST says:

    A solidly entertaining card IMO. Noons got a tough first fight in the octagon didn’t he. It was a fun fight to watch, but doesn’t do much to get him back up to the speed of his talents or make LW a stronger division.

    I also knew it was WAY to early to put Bigfoot against Cain again already. Apparently even more too soon then I thought. Now it occurs to me that that may have been his punishment for derailing the Over-roids twitter train. Now dana will never have to give him another shot because dana’s twitter followers wont be “demanding it”. While the Roim gets comfortably matched against the ever droll Travis Browne.

    And I’m happy Hunt got a bonus, for fighting the #2/1 HW in the world. Despite there being no title shot even in consideration for him if Hunt had K’d Dos TFO. All Hunt gets is more fights he’s supposed to lose along with Roy Nelson.

    A good card on a visceral level. Somebody impressed in every fight. Even Story, Noons, Hunt and TeHuna in Losses. And another display of creepy spoiled danajoel pettiness.

    B+

  24. edub says:

    Decent event. Sucks to see my boy Maynard get KO’d, but I kinda saw it coming. One of those wrestlers that has forgotten what got him to that status (also believes a bit more in his power and chin than he should). Should have been a title holder after the second Edgar fight, but now most likely won’t get to that level again. Main and Co-main events were pretty simple. I won a couple buddies who went to Vegas about a grand because I said a parlay on both fights was a sure thing.

    Bad stuff from it were the decisions and back of the head shots. Cain hit Big foot in the back of the head about 8 or 9 times. Grant hit maynard in the back of the head about 3 or 4 times (maybe more considering what you consider “back”). Bermudez clearly lost the first two rounds against Holloway. I don’t understand how two judges didn’t score the first round for Story a 10-8, and that should have made it a draw.

    In the end, it was just another event not paid for by me and caught up on the internet and Fuel TV’s aftershow. I can’t see it doing more than 450k.

  25. 45 Huddle says:

    Is anybody actually going to buy UFC 161?

    The UFC is once again proving that they don’t have enough fire power to pull off over 15 major events a year.

  26. 45 Huddle says:

    Rampage signed with Bellator… which was to be expected. I was surprised when the rumor of him going to ONE FC came up yesterday.

    The bad part of the deal is that its just like King Mo’s. He can do TNA. As we have already seen with Mo, trying to do two things at the same time does not work out well.

    I can see it now. Mo & Rampage are a tag team in TNA. They have a falling out. They fight it out in Bellator. Yikes!

    Speaking of TNA…. they had their worst ratings ever a few weeks ago coming up against the NBA. Barely got 1 Million viewers. SpikeTV is not doing good right now.

    • edub says:

      I actually figured One FC would be a better fit. Maybe a bit less money, but he’s still decently followed in Asia. Could just get squash matches there, and take all the testosterone he wants.

      • edub says:

        But I guess he could still do the test on indian reservations too.

        • 45 Huddle says:

          Don’t get me wrong…. It is a good and logical signing by Bellator.

          It just has a lot of weird quirks to it.

          1) Rebney for years has said they don’t want UFC washouts, and now they are getting a guy who left the company going 0-3. He is also 2-4 in his last 6, with many people thinking he should be 1-5. He really is on his last leg as a MMA fighter.

          2) Mixing Pro Wrestling and MMA so much is not good.

          3) Once again Viacom dips into the SpikeTV pool of money to sign a fighter. With both Mo & Rampage, they seem very reluctant to sign a bigger name fighter to just a Bellator contract. They throw at them Pro Wrestling and other TV Show money. It means they really aren’t all in on Bellator.

          4) Does anybody see Rampage making weight 3 times in 3 months? They will have to change the format for him to get him to a title shot.

          5) There is a strong rumor that Cheick Kongo is also Bellator bound. The writing is on the wall. If the ratings were good enoughfor the first season on SpikeTV, they would have stayed the course. SpikeTV is completely changing course right now.

        • nottheface says:

          I think Spike really wants to try and recapture the original TUF audience- or the formula at least, that made it work – which was WWE fans tuning in for the UFC. If they sign Roy Nelson I think it synches that’s what they’re up to. I don’t think I’ll be a fan of the product if that’s their direction, but really what are they to do when very major star is already locked into an ironclad UFC contract?

      • Steve4192 says:

        Asia is a big place.

        Just because Rampage was popular in Japan does not mean he has a fanbase in Singapore/Malaysia/Indonesia. MMA was not as popular in those countries back in Pride’s heyday.

      • Megatherium says:

        Bellator also offers the squashes and the TRT window. There’s very little difference, actually.

  27. The Gaijin says:

    I just saw that Robert Drysdale got inked by the UFC. I remember that guy being considered a REALLY hot prospect 4 or 5 years ago, but that he had some brain issue (needed surgery for a brain aneurysm)that held him out of a slot TUF.

    I know he won ADCC a few years back and subbed Marcelo, so he’s obviously a beast on the mats, but seems like since he’s mainly plugged away in mma on regional and Legacy FC cards, mainly fighting journeymen.

    Anyone have any better insights/intel on him? He’s obviously a phenomenally talented bjj guy, but not sure he’s going to translate to anything on the big stage. I seem to recall he’s pretty mediocre/shaky on the feet (not a surprise), so think he’ll be more of a Vinny Mags than a Jacare.

    • Steve4192 says:

      I’ve got basically the same impression of him.

      He’s a fantastic technical grappler but a mediocre athlete. He’s never going to be able to overwhelm anyone with athleticism like Jacare can. He’s very similar to Roger Gracie IMO. A long lanky technician rather than a great athlete.

  28. RST says:

    Interesting.

    Sounds like the Verdum who wants to win showed up.

    That Verdum can beat anyone,
    even Dos or Cain IMO.

    Cavalcante got a tough first fight in the UFC didn’t he.

    Imagine that.

    • The Gaijin says:

      1. Werdum still looked incredibly hittable and looked to be getting flustered and jittery against an old warhorse like Big Nog. He was also getting pretty bullied around in the clinch. I don’t think that bodes to well for him against the top 2 right now. I also don’t see how he reasonably gets the fight to the ground against either of these guys – doubtful they fall for the Fosbury Flop routine.

      2. Now we’re calling Thiago Silva a “tough first fight” for the ex-LHW champ of Strikeforce? The same guy that’s already fought Dan Henderson and King Mo? If anything I thought that was a pretty good match-up for a muay thai striker like him – Silva has become a 1-d, stalk you down brawler who is pretty plodding and predictable. Feijao just gassed out and started standing in front of a guy that wanted to brawl and has heavy hands. Pure bad gameplanning, preparation and execution.

  29. RST says:

    For some reason I totally brainfarted that Cain is fighting Dos next. (Just woke up.)

    Well thats an easy one, Verdum fights the winner of that. In fact Verdum will have the time to take one more fight to make sure he wants to win 2 times in a row and if its a proper showcase fight to introduce himself to 13 year olds. Verdum/Chael Sonnen!

  30. Diaz's cashed bowl says:

    ufc bonus system is BS to give $100,000 to a steroid cheat for beating a steroid cheat.
    Then they ignore Werdums incredible feat of subbing the grappling wizard big Nog with an armbar, choosing to award Silvas flashy but easy armbar on a wrestler can with no sub defense.

    They are so cheap! EVERYONE who finishes deserves a bonus, it should not be subjective.
    And cheaters should be eligible for squat regardless their performance. And certainly not a spot in the hall of fame.

  31. 45 Huddle says:

    Bellator moving to Friday’s….

    There options were already limited. UFC has Wed & Sat, TNA has Thursday. Mon & Tues are horrible days to get fans in areans for fighting. Which left them with Sundays going up against stuff like Game of Thrones or The Walking Dead…. Or Fridays.

    I see some bad ratings in their future. The end of Bellator is near…

    • The Gaijin says:

      Didn’t they try this Friday thing already?!

      • 45 Huddle says:

        On MTV2…

        It didn’t work out very well.

        FOX tried it with the UFC on FX. It didn’t work out too well.

        ESPN has boxing on Friday Nights. It does 500,000 viewers a week.

        It will not end well for Bellator.

    • Manapua says:

      MMALOGIC continues to beat his personal dead horse.

      How many YEARS have you been saying the end was near? I guess if you move the goalpost far enough huh?

      • 45 Huddle says:

        How have I moved the goal posts?

        Bellator would have failed but Viacom came in and saved them.

        Now under new management, they are still failing.

        ChrisC, I am not MMA Logic.

  32. ChrisC says:

    wait 45 is mmalogic and Manapua is liquidrob?

  33. 45 Huddle says:

    According to Dana White’s post fight media scrum…

    Roy Nelson went to Joe Silva and said he was fighting tougher guys and wanted more money.

    So Joe Silva agreed and offered him a new contract and was going to “rip up” the TUF contract.

    Roy Nelson said it wasn’t enough and kept the TUF Contract.

    WTF!!

    Zuffa was under no legal obligation to offer Roy a new contract. They did. But because he didn’t get everything he wanted, he decided to take the lesser paying contract.

    The guy is crazy…..

  34. Nepal says:

    Am I the only one who thought Woodley was robbed?

    • Megatherium says:

      Hell Nepal, you might even be the only one that watched it. I know I wasn’t missing game two of the Stanley Cup finals to watch that thing. I mean, it was awful even by western Canada standards.

      • Nepal says:

        Yeah, hockey would have been better than that card. I don’t get the playoffs where I live. Well actually I could stream it but not so interested in hockey now.

        My wonderment was just Woodley losing that fight. I actually like watching guys like Sheilds, Fitch and other high level l’n’pers. That is, I like to watch them once, I would never watch the fight a 2nd time like I would with many other fighters. Exciting fighters that is. Sheilds did nothing other than push against the cage and land some pillow shots. At least Woodley had one significant event in each of the 3 rounds. This judging thing just continues to amaze.

        BTW, Mazagotti did nothing wrong in the Burkman vs Fitch fight. That choke was in so deep and so quickly, Maz didn’t have a chance to step in. Fitch went to sleep as fast as I’ve ever seen anybody go to sleep.

        • edub says:

          I actually don’t see how anybody scores it for Woodley outside of the people that refuse to score boredom.

          Jake controlled him, landed more, and fought the fight he wanted. Woodley landed a few good shots, but spent the majority of the fight defending against Jakes womanly slaps and surprisingly better clinch work.

          I thought most of the decisions throughout the night were right on. Only one I thought was really bad was Pague-Jabouin.

  35. david m says:

    The only fight I bothered watching was the main event. I wish it had been 5 rounds. There were too many fights on the main card that I cared nothing about.

    What is next for Rashad now? Nobody wants to see him get demolished by JJ again, and he doesn’t want to cut to 185 to get murdered by Anderson. Hendo was slightly more gracious than usual in defeat (he is basically a Brazilian)–although he took a cheap shot at Machida in the press conference (who clearly beat Dan in his previous fight). Henderson hopefully will retire while he can still speak; he is 42 and has been in countless wars. Enjoy your hall of fame plaque and go teach wrestling.

  36. RST says:

    Kind of a boring card.

    I like how all those nitwit writers at bloodytoiletbowl are having a great time with headlines like nelson is over-rated.

    Then going on to justify such a zazzy title by saying that Nelson just has a heavy over-hand right.

    Thats fine, if not entirely true,
    but do they say the same thing about hendo and hendricks?

    Nelson still is what he always was,
    one of the better gate keepers at HW.
    Better then kongo,
    good enough to stop Struve,
    but nobody thought that he was getting a title shot anytime soon.

    But dont let that get between BT and their agenda.

    IMO it was more a matter of he probably shouldn’t have taken the fight on short notice, which was probably an extension of under-estimating miocic,
    which was reckless but understandable becasue nobody thought that Micoc was that good.

    Nobody at bt was betting on miocic.

    But Miocic surprised everybody and came in fully functional and looking great.

    At least great enough to beat on a surprised and under-prepared Nelson to a decision.

    And speaking of Hendo,
    I like how the first thing that 2 of the front page articles at BT do is disparage Evans win.

    He didn’t impress, didn’t get any takedowns and nobody wants to see him get a title shot.

    It just smacks of what irritates me about neo-liberals.
    Like a dude-bro, they don’t really care for black dudes that behave with any self esteem or speak clear english.

    They’ve never liked Evans.

    He doesn’t fit into their progressive savior of the minorities self image.

    They much prefer a mumbling idiot like jackson who fits into their sense of superiority and gives them an opportunity to call anyone who doesn’t like mumbling idiots a racist.

    jackson is “charismatic”.

    And thats why they get so upset about someone mentioning uncle tom,
    because uncle toms (and the helplessly addicted welfare state) are a core component of the college bred progressive economy.

    • klown says:

      What are you talking about?

      • RST says:

        So you say that your name is Klown?

        Should I take you seriously?

      • RST says:

        The funny thing is that I’ve seen this dude “klown”s name on this board for 5-6 years.

        But I dont remember him ever adding anything to a conversation other then randon:
        “huh”,
        “what”,
        “you suck”.

        I cant wait to be proven wrong.

        • edub says:

          Proven wrong?

          How, just by somebody saying he’s made actual points here that were valid and logical? Ok, he has

        • RST says:

          Such as “what are you talking aboot”? Maybe I’m the one who’s confused. I was refering to “klown”.

        • RST says:

          Oh, okay. You mean “He has” theoretically despite me scrolling up this comment thread looking for klowns insightful contributions. Are you gonna carry the responsibility edub? I’m pretty sure that I’ve got honesty on my side.

        • edub says:

          I don’t believe anybody questions your honesty. I think its more of a question of your sanity at times.

  37. Chris says:

    saw on twitter rumor is they offered him 125k with a 50 or 75k win bonus.

    That seems a big high but if thats true and he turned it down he is a fool.

    I think something like 70/70 or 80/80 is what they would offer.

    • RST says:

      He?

      Nelson?

      I hope Nelson does head out.

      The only thing he has to gain in the UFC is being paid to get thrown under buses.

      Unfortunately thats probably the most anyone has to be gained in the ufc unless you’re chael sonnen.

    • RST says:

      “saw on twitter rumor is they offered him 125k with a 50 or 75k win bonus.”

      That aint bad alleged change though.

      For a mildly popular gatekeeper.

      More then he’s gonna get out in the wild.

  38. RST says:

    I’ve totally got this image of “klown”. He’s like the dude from “The Gods Must be Crazy”. He’s been staring at fight opinion for years, like the dude looking at the coka cola bottle.

    He never really grasps it, but he’s got this never ending amazement… (These guys are way smarter then sherdog!) On the one hand he’s an antique, that should be cherished.
    But on the other hand, its a bit of an embarrassing memory…

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