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« | Home | »

UFC September cards: UFC 151 (9/1 Las Vegas) event canceled

By Zach Arnold | August 23, 2012

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What should have been taking place but won’t due to Dan Henderson main event cancellation (torn MCL)…

Instead, Jon Jones vs. Lyoto Machida on 9/22 in Toronto. Plus, Dana White buried Jon Jones for turning down a Vegas fight on 9/1 against Chael Sonnen.

Dana White called Greg Jackson ‘a sport killer’ for advising Jones not to fight Sonnen.

Event: UFC 151 (9/1 Mandalay Bay Events Center in Las Vegas, Nevada)

Preliminary bouts

Main card

Event: UFC 152 (9/22 at the Air Canada Centre in Toronto, Ontario, Canada)

Preliminary bouts

Main card

Event: UFC on Fuel 5 (9/29 Capital FM Arena in Nottingham, England)
TV: Fuel

Preliminary bouts

Main card

Topics: Canada, Media, MMA, UFC, Zach Arnold | 123 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |

123 Responses to “UFC September cards: UFC 151 (9/1 Las Vegas) event canceled”

  1. 45 Huddle says:

    The UFC PPV Cards this year have looked horrible. It is a combination of:

    1) Too many fight cards. Main events from FuelTV like Weidman/Munoz would have typically been on PPV to flesh out the cards more. Perhaps there will be a time when the UFC can do 30+ cards, but it is not in 2012. Their smaller weight classes are not developed enough and don’t have the star power to add the extra bulk to these cards.

    2) Injuries. This is the UFC’s fault because this is no longer an injury bug. This is the way the sport happens, and yet they have not adapted their matchmaking to allow for even slight changes to the card.

    3) Main Event Fighters are taking too much time between fights. We are on schedule to have only about 12 title fights in all of 2012. And 2 of those fights were interim title fights. That is PATHETIC!!

    And don’t get me started on the FUEL TV cards. The last 2 cards have had an interesting main event and that is it. The next one is the same thing. One good Main Event and the rest of the card is junk. I cancelled cable a few months ago, and I do not regret it. FUEL TV is basically offering 6 to 8 good fights for the entire year. Totally useless channel. The only thing I will miss are the actual FX cards, but there are only 6 of them per year so I will just go to a friends house to watch them.

    2011 was supposed to be the transition year and 2012 should have been back to growth. The UFC has faultered so much along the way that it has become stagnant beyond belief. As a fan, I still enjoy watching the big fights. And the rest is just starting to become sh!t….

    • The Gaijin says:

      While it will NEVER happen, I think Zuffa is in a situation where the company has grown to the point that they need to bring in some “outsiders” to provide a fresh perspective and to help them reach that next level. They’ve grown it tremendously and have gotten it to international levels, but I don’t think the team they’ve got in there has to tools to make the next leap. They’ve certainly got the determination, money and the resources to do it…but you see this problem with many tightly held and closely managed companies that grow exponentially and reach a critical mass.

      Problem is that DW is such a micromanager and (for better or worse) has a tremendously large ego, so I cannot see him just stepping aside or giving up part of the “creative control” and management that’s required to get them there. I keep thinking they’ve got Frank and Lorenzo, but they seem really tight and loyal, so if DW says “No.” they’re going to respect that and let him continue doing his thing.

      Not that it matters really – I’m sure they’re doing ok with their billion dollar empire that generates tons of cash and has one of the lowest talent overheads in sports and entertainment.

    • RST says:

      4) joe silva has become an atrocious matchmaker!

      He was good at one time, a few years ago when he had less to work with, but is losing his perspective along with dana probably due to the curse of success, old age or both.

      I cant believe he’s matching Gustaffson against Shogun!

      There are only 3-4 205’s arguably left for Jones to fight!

      Dont match them up against each other nitwit!

      Match them against lesser 205’s like Lyoto/Bader so that they can look “more impressive”, and then barring a Cormier from behind style surprise put them in line against Jones!

      Now he’s knocking off one of the only guys worthy enough to keep Jones busy!

      Its just stupid!
      And he keeps doing it recently.

      That was the only reason that I never cared for the Shogun/Hendo fight despite it being an obvious entertainer.

      They could have carried 4-5 more cards on both of those guys instead of trashing one of them.

      Some people are saying that things like this are punishments by zuffa for defying there any wish,
      like Shogun not interested in fighting Texiera because he knows him,
      while flamderson gets to lay back and pick off shlubs in a division he cleared out years ago,
      and I dont think that kind of vendetta and selfishness driven tyranny from modern zuffa is so far fetched at all.

      • bigweeze says:

        You say that there are few LHWs left to challenge Jones and imply that Lyoto is lesser than Shogun on the LHW totem pole?

        Lyoto easily dispatched Ryan Bader, while Shogun was life and death with the previously exiled Brandon Vera and Henderson. Lyoto would have made those two look silly.

        Lyoto wants to fight Jones, Shogun is scared of Jones.

        Lyoto is in shape, Shogun is out of shape.

        Shogun may hold the h2h in peoples’ minds, but Lyoto looks far superior at the moment.

        • The Gaijin says:

          Shogun dominated Vera from post to post. I don’t get the line of thinking that it was a close fight just because he didn’t beat him in 3 minutes…Vera is a tough guy to finish and he hung in there for 3+ rounds – but he got his ass whipped pretty much the entire fight.

        • Light23 says:

          I had money on Shogun, and when he finally finished the fight, I was breathing a sigh of relief. Vera had a lot of moments in that fight.

        • The Gaijin says:

          If you listened to Goldie and Rogan then sure. Vera landed some nice counters a few times, but Shogun has insane chin and grit and he just moved through Vera’s shots for the most part and he’s not really a guy that gets finished off 1 shot and that’s pretty much all Vera landed iirc. I think I had it a clear 30-27 after 3 rounds and Vera was looking like he was on the verge of being finished several times. I do agree that it was a relief as a Shogun fan when he did finish him, because that was exactly the type of fight you almost expect the guy that just won’t go away to land something and make a desperation finish, but the fight was a blowout.

  2. david m says:

    UFC on Fox 5 is better than most UFC ppvs. Dana McWhite thinks RAW, err, FOX, is a better source of income than PPV. F’ing idiot.

    • The Gaijin says:


      • david m says:

        BJ Penn is worth at least 150k buys by himself to UFC’s baseline. I would say more like 200-250k more buys minimum, but I am not looking at any stats. To sacrifice him on a Fox card takes away 8 figures from the UFC’s wallet. That is ridiculous.

        • 45 Huddle says:

          The Gaijin is right.

          They have tried the slightly better then Fight Night Level shows twice now and seen the results. They have tried the one big Heavyweight Title Fight and seen the results.

          It’s time to put a PPV quality card on FOX and see what happens. A title fight and BJ Penn should give a good indication of what the UFC can do on FOX right now with a solid line-up.

        • 45 Huddle says:

          And if you notice, there is no 2 PPV’s in December. The last 3 years, we have seen an early December PPV and then a end of year show (some have been on Jan 1 or 2nd but still a year end show). Perhaps the UFC is actually. Then again….

          In 2012 there will be 14 PPV’s this year. Should have been 15 but they had to cancel one of them. With one of their PPV’s getting ~160,000 PPV’s…. Perhaps…. just perhaps… They might bring it down to 12 PPV’s a year.

          But probably not. White just has one speed….

        • RST says:

          I have a few arguments against the BJ phenommenon!

          But I would never deny that he IS name brand!

          And sells a few more.

          It seems that zuffa is trying to catch up on the Fox TV channel front.

          Maybe to the detriment of viable PPV’s.

          Heck, that might be smart.

          Some people say that network broadcast is better then PPV.

          That might be true!

          But I’m not sure that you can have both.

        • Light23 says:

          Yeah, but don’t FOX pay the UFC a significant amount for each of these four FOX shows? A 300-350k PPV on FOX shouldn’t really be a money loser.

        • The Gaijin says:

          I agree with Light these Fox cards bring in some serious cash for Zuffa along with a good gate if it’s a good card. These are not loss leader shows, they make some serious coin and at this point 140-190k ppvs aren’t really moving the needle or justifying the last few weak Fox cards.

      • The Gaijin says:

        Sorry! First and last time trying to post “mobile” on a Blackberry…disaster. Par for the course RIM.

  3. […] Jon Jones is Major Favorite Over Dan Henderson ( […]

  4. The Gaijin says:

    Ouch! Just saw Da Meltz reported a pretty depressing tidbit…UFC revised the buys for UFC 141 (Lesnar x Overeem) from approx. 750k to 535k. That is not good – granted it was a Friday night the night before NYE – but that seemed like a sure fire homerun in terms of PPV draw and apparently it was not. 535k is still quite good generally, but not when you consider the parties involved and the fact that Lesnar was considered as bulletproof a draw as it got.

    • 45 Huddle says:

      That was another 2 PPV month if my memory is not mistaken.

      The writing is on the wall big time. The era of 15 PPV’s should be at an end. The era of only one big show per month (PPV or FOX) or 1 PPV per month with a few FOX shows….. Should be upon us. White just hasn;t figured it out yet.

      And really if they reduced the number of PPV’s, got rid of Strikeforce, and beefed up the smaller weight divisions, they would easily have enough talent for a weekly TV show in place of TUF.

  5. RST says:

    What I find precious is Chael opening so far over Griffen!

    He cant beat Griffen unless Griffen dives!

    There is something insidious aboot gambling…

  6. david m says:

    Meltz said 190k for UFC 150. Seriously the downfall of the UFC LW division was when BJ was ROBBED against Edgar in their first fight. I really enjoy watching Frankie’s fight and he is quite talented and courageous, but he has about as much charisma as a roll of toilet paper. Same with Ben. With BJ, when he fought, love him or hate him, you knew you were watching an all time great fighter. Henderson is limited, and Frankie is so small that he always seems beatable (always meaning against top level LWs), and doesn’t really carry the power that he would at 145.

    I don’t know if BJ is interested in fighting full-time, but if he can make 155, he would beat Ben and Maynard and likely Nate (who is not as good as his brother, although he has improved a lot and should beat Henderson and Maynard).

    • Zach Arnold says:

      The truth about Frankie Edgar is that once you get labeled as a point fighter and someone who doesn’t finish, that’s the kiss of death with mainstream UFC fans.

      Joe Rogan can hawk every Frankie fight ‘as a war’ but it doesn’t mean casual, mainstream fans take the outcomes of his fights all that seriously any longer.

      • David M says:

        I don’t agree entirely with that. Couture was a draw and wasn’t a finisher. GSP is their biggest draw and he has become king of decisions.

        People want to see greatness, and they want to be emotionally invested in the fighters/the fight. BJ, GSP, Lesnar, Chuck, Tito, Rampage, Rashad, JJ, Mir, Chael, Anderson (with Chael’s help), Hughes, and Forrest have been able to get the audience to care. Hughes, Couture, Iceman, Tito, Lesnar, Forrest are all done. UFC needs to find some new charismatic stars soon.

    • The Gaijin says:

      190k?!? That is BAD, particularly on the heels of 150k buys for 147, 235k for 149 and the revised 141 numbers.

      They’ve totally obliterated their baseline (it was like 315k 2 years ago) and even their biggest shows are lucky to hit 1mm buys. Not only that but their live gates are cratering as well. The writing is on the wall for their current approach to ppvs, as 45 has been noting for a while now, and they’re really going to have to re-evaluate their strategy going forward.

      I’d be down for having 8 stacked ppvs a year and then running big FOX shows, FX, Fuel and a weekly prospects type card.

      • 45 Huddle says:

        I think the best solution right now is one big show per month. Which would end up being 8 PPV’s and 4 FOX shows a year. I don’t even think 12 PPV’s works anymore.

        Then do a weekly show like Bellator does during the fall and spring…. And then maybe do a few extra fight nights during the summer. Actually, Bellator’s schedule is the perfect blueprint for what the UFC should become. Just don’t do the tournament garbage as that stinks.

        This will give them a better weekly showing for fans then TUF and still give them enough shows per year.

        And FOX will be happy because they will have even more fights to put on FUEL TV with the prelims for the weekly fight nights.

        As a fan, I am actually happy that some of these PPV’s are bombing. It puts in Dana White’s face the reality of the situation. Which is that he has burnt out his fanbase with too many cards that cost money.

        • nottheface says:

          I agree with this 100%. Mostly because I’ve made same arguement over at BE in the past, but I also think its the right decision.

  7. Megatherium says:

    The flies are headlining the Toronto ppv show at the ACC?! God, the Fertitta’s have stepped on their product to the point where it’s now about 95 percent baby powder. I’m barely getting a buzz from their stuff anymore.

    Full out addict panic ahead!

    • 45 Huddle says:

      This is what happens when White & Fertitta live in a bubble and think all of MMA is the same and great. They have no clue how much they have watered it down.

  8. Megatherium says:

    Zuffa is peddling an addictive product at 25 percent of it’s 2009 potency and they’re wondering why there is a decline in sales and a disgruntled consumer? Get everybody wired and then step on the dope till you can’t get high anymore.


  9. Megatherium says:

    So Spike has now added K-1 to their programming schedule for 2013 along with their weekly Bellator shows. So much fighting on free tv next year; these watered down ppv’s are really going to struggle.

  10. 45 Huddle says:

    WOW!! Dana White just threw Jon Jones under the bus. He said that Jon Jones refused to fight Chael Sonnen as a replacement.

    He said Jones knew the event would be cancelled if he did not accept.

    Jones is a POS for saying no. That is really a sh!t thing to do to his fans who wanted to attend the event.

    Greg Jackson was just thrown under the bus as well….. Saying that he told Jon Jones not to take the fight.

    Jones & Jackson are going to get crapped on for a long time for this one.

    He called Greg Jackson a “sport killer”.

    Machida/Jones happening later in September in Canada.

    Jon Jones refused to fight Chael Sonnen. Dana White called Greg Jackson a “sport killer” for telling Jones not to take the fight.

    Jones & Jackson are going to get sh!t on for a long time. They screwed over the fans. They screwed over the fighters on the card.

    This is about the worst PR for Jon Jones career he could have. It will take him years to get away from the reputation of being a ducker.

    White is pissed, and I agree with him. There is no reason Jones should have said no to a fight with a Middleweight.

    Dana White is saying is he losing “sh!t loads of money” due to this event being cancelled.

    • Bob says:

      GJ to JJ : DONT’T (Go out there and win some fans)

    • Tomer says:

      “Jones is a POS for saying no.”

      Why? No, seriously, Sonnen did bubkes to earn a LHW title shot besides arguably losing vs. Bisping and then getting clobbered by Silva in his last two fights (both at MW). If White wanted to retain the card, he should have offered Jones a significant sweeetner (since his contract versus Henderson was voided by Henderson being unable to fulfill his end of the agreement and a new fight agreement had to be formed). If I was Jones’ manager, I wouldn’t agree to it (at least without significant concessions), either.

      • 45 Huddle says:

        Jones is a POS for saying no. And here is why.

        He is perfectly healthy to fight. His fans have already bought plane tickets, hotel rooms, event tickets, and who knows what other expenses to see him fight in Vegas. Now many of those people are out of money because of him d#ck tucking.

        Plus, he complained about not wanting to fight Machida because it was a rematch and it wouldn’t make him enough money. The UFC gives him one of their Top 5 PPV draws in 2012, and he refuses it. So either way, he is talking out of his #ss.

        Not to mention that he always talks about being a company man. Well this company man just cost the UFC money. He cost other UFC fighters money. He cost his fans money.

        I saw somebody else explain it perfectly…. He always talks about how through Christ, he can do anything…. Except fight a Middleweight on 8 days notice.

        What a POS.

      • Tomer says:

        Another thing is that Jon Jones (reasonably, IMO) is looking towards his interests, which means he is considering the cost-benefit analysis of taking on an opponent cold with little more than a week’s preparation and given that Sonnen is all risk and virtually no reward (since he was last seen having his face mashed in by Silva), he understandably isn’t eager to take on the ‘generous offer’. White, on the other hand, is a promoter and his goal is inevitably to maximize his profits as a promoter regardless of the individual fighters, so he honestly doesn’t give a crap how ready Jones is, only his bottom line.

        I still don’t see how Jones is in the wrong here since he didn’t cancel the original fight (it was Henderson pulling out) and he is doing what any reasonable person would be expected to do in that situation (say “Hell no” unless you toss enough bills to make the risk worth it).

        • 45 Huddle says:

          “I don’t want to fight Lyoto Machida,” Jones said. “He was my lowest pay-per-view draw of last year.”

          Now he has a chance to fight a big PPV draw in Chael Sonnen.

          He can’t have it both ways. Sounds like he just doesn’t want to fight as much now that he has money and fame.

          The backlash from this will last his entire career.

        • RST says:

          Thats an interesting point.


          PPV is not the reason that he shouldn’t fight Lyoto.
          Its just too soon for a rematch between those two fighters.

          And PPV is not the reason that he shouldn’t fight Sonnen.
          Sonnen just doesn’t deserve it.

          And letting Sonnen jump the line because he’s a loudmouth disrespects not only the LHW title,
          but the sport!

          Jones is doing what zuffa doesn’t do anymore,
          have some respect for the sport!

          But as you noticed,
          its a selective respect.

          There is no reason for him to be giving silva a pass either!

        • Tomer says:

          One last thing: it’s pretty funny that people are taking Dana White’s word at face value considering the classic promoter mantra (coined by Bob Arum): “Yesterday I was lying, today I’m telling the truth.” Of course a promoter is going to shovel blame onto other parties when things fall through – they don’t want to be stained by a bad promotion. Maybe White is being forthright, maybe he isn’t but I think the rant against Jones based on what he said alone is hilarious.

        • RST says:

          ” it’s pretty funny that people are taking Dana White’s word at face value…”

          I dont think its funny at all!

          Its a horrifying result of intentionally dumbing down to the easiest to manipulate and least demanding demographic!

          Turbocharged via facebook and twitter!

      • Tomer says:

        Two other points that I noticed:

        1) Jones ‘gaining’ a reputation as a ducker after turning down Sonnen on short notice – this is fallacious given that (i) Sonnen just lost his last fight and Jones can easily say “What did Sonnen do to earn a shot at me because being in a fetal position in his last fight?” and (ii) if Mauricio ‘Shogun’ Rua hasn’t had such a reputation get picked up by a far more blatant duck (see: Glover Teixeira), I don’t see what impact this refusal will have.

        2) Screwing over the other fighters – As mentioned elsewhere, (i) it’s not Jones’ duty to be providing for the other fighters on the undercard and (ii) Henderson pulling out with his injury caused the top fight to collapse, not the subsequent refusal by Jones – the Sonnen proposal was a last ditch effort to save the card but Jones (rightfully, IMO) was not going to get pressured into a last second switch-up and taking on a high risk, low reward opponent in Sonnen (at least without heavy rewards commiserate to the risk he was taking on by the switcharoo).

    • RST says:

      “Jones is a POS for saying no.”

      I have to beg to differ with you.

      Jones is an actual athlete!
      And a legitimate Champion!

      Insisting that Jones fight Sonnen is like insisting that he fight Justin Beiber!

      Its not Jones’ fault that zuffa squashed 2 alternatives in joel silvas desperate effort to punish Shogun.

      Its not Jones’ fault that zuffa never forces flamderson to take a fight.

      And ultimately Jones is not the promoter!
      And not responsible for zuffa bad matchmaking themselves into a corner!

      Jones should take every advantage he can,
      and never budge unless he has to without any sympathy or regret!

      Because dana/joel would!

    • Megatherium says:

      As I mentioned above, what really killed this card is the ticket refund option that is provided to ticket holders in Nevada when the main event is changed. Zuffa’s screwing over of the fans in the regulatory backwater of Calgary Alberta Canada just weeks ago illustrates this fact perfectly.

      Zuffa was going to take a bath on ticket refunds AND ppv numbers with a late Sonnen vs whatever match. And that is why White is pissed. Because Nevada doesn’t allow the Zuffa patented late switcheroo,; if they did we would be looking at Sonnen vs ? as a main event and White furiously pushing the overall UFC event experience like he did in Calgary and leaving town with #4 million plus in gate revenue fans be damned.

    • Jason Harris says:

      This event was garbage with Jones-Hendo and even worse with Jones-Sonnen. If they change the main event the people buying tickets can’t get refunds and the people who watch PPVs are still out $60. This event should never have been a PPV and cancelling was the best thing that could have happened to it.

      Did anyone really want to pay $60 to see a one fight card of Jones-Sonnen?

      • Megatherium says:

        Actually, Nevada does provide ticket holders with a refund option, the likely flood of refund requests and the poor ppv numbers were the reason we’re not seeing something like a Belfort vs Sonnen main event next weekend. After all, as we heard in Calgary earlier this summer, it’s that total UFC event experience that you’re really buying. Not individual stars.

        But Jones and Jackson make pretty good scapegoats.

        • Megatherium says:

          I meant to respond to Jason Harris here. Don’t mean to belabor the point, but people are ignoring the Nevada ticket holder refund option factor in their rush to place the blame, or the credit, depending on your perspective, for the cancellation of the card at the feet of the Jones/Jackson camp.

        • Jonathan Snowden says:

          Tickets are the least of it. I personally know several people stuck with flights and hotel costs for an event that no longer exists.

        • Alan Conceicao says:

          Sounds like there will be lots of coverage for a Wild Bills Fight Night then.

        • Jason Harris says:

          I sure would hate to be stuck in Las Vegas over a long weekend with a few hundred extra dollars in my pocket and a free Saturday night

  11. Bryan says:

    So why cancel the entire card? It’s not like this would be the first main event in history where one fighter got hurt an had to drop out. If Jones doesn’t want to fight, well fine (even through I don’t see how Sonnen would beat him), but why couldn’t Zuffa work around that? PPV buys, or specifically, a potential lack thereof?

    • Megatherium says:

      The Nevada state regs allow for a ticket refund option where there is a change to the main event. Thet is all that saved us from another UFC 149/Calgary farce.

      And hallelujah for that!

  12. The Gaijin says:

    Are people actually, legitimately trying to shit on Jon Jones for not taking this fight and “wrecking the card”?!? You cannot be that big of a Zuffa/DFW mark to take the bait on that…they really do think/try to enforce brand over “drawing fighters”. This is a Zuffa problem – JJ didn’t sink this card – UFC sunk this card by their repeated strategy of running the PPV well dry with stepped on, shitty, thin ppv cards, giant oversaturation and piss poor marketing.

    How can anyone be upset that a match between arguably the most dominant fighter on the planet today and a guy that got blown out in his last fight for a title in the weight class below (that got busted for cheating in his previous title shot that he lost before that) isn’t happening?!?! EVERYONE completely sh!t on Strikeforce for doing something like this and now they’re frothing at the mouth because it ISN’T happening?!? WTH man.

    And 45 – you’ve been going nuts about this terrible ppv strategy and card depth – I thought I could count on you giving a rational response here after all this. C’mon man!

    • Tomer says:

      You gave a more succinct answer about the topic than I did below – I concur 100%, Gaijin.

    • 45 Huddle says:

      2 completely different issues that just happen to intersect here.

      The UFC is running too many PPV’s.

      But Jon Jones ducking a Middleweight is pathetic. He even says he would fight Sonnen on the Canada card.

      He just feared a Middleweight with 8 days notice.

      Just Do It? Just Far it!!

      • The Gaijin says:

        The fact that people consider it “ducking” is the biggest joke. This was a fucking crock of shit fight – how the HELL does Phael Sonnen warrant a title shot in any circumstance?? B/c he talked shit on twitter?

        GTFO of here with that insipid argument. Weren’t you the same person (among many many others who are all over Jones) saying that Nick Diaz vs. Anderson is a joke?!

        This supposed joke of a replacement fight is 1000x worse.

    • edub says:

      It’s a fucking shit show Gaij? Half our site is talking about how scared Jones is, and why did he screw the other fighters. I feel like an idiot for being lumped in as an MMA fan right now.

    • Megatherium says:

      It’s laughable the Dana White was even considering such an absurd replacement fight. I mean this kind of farce would have set the ‘sport’ back miles. I’ll really have to watch his media address to hear this with my own ears.

      I mean Jones vs Sonnen!? On three days notice?!?!

      I mean, I’m lost for words.

    • Jaylon B says:

      Huddle 45 doing his usual two face showing. Earlier this month, he complained and rightfully so that UFC has too many shows and oversaturated. Also talked about injuries. Now This guy is taking Chael side for some reason.

      Since why and when does Chael deserve this fight. This isnt what fans want. Some bum who got his ass whooped twice by Silva to fight in a main event. Since when did he warrant a shot?

      Dana white is a moron. Worse is the morons on MMAfighting saying the same dumb thing Huddle is saying.

  13. 45 Huddle says:

    A figters perspective….

    But I guess Joe Lauzon is wrong too…. Face it guys… Your ate for the UFC is getting in the way here. Sure Zuffa is a bunch of idiots for putting on too many shows.

    But right here… right now…. Jon Jones f#cked up and screwed everybody else over.

    • The Gaijin says:

      This has nothing to do with “hate” for the UFC and everything to do with not being a brainwashed sycophant that jumps everytime DFW presses on your shock collar.

      He completely sandbagged on one of his biggest draws by offering him a shitty fight, with a loser opponent. You’re not selling a ppv with 8 days build sorry but it’s just not happening. Jones has every right to not accept the fight, it’s not his fault that his opponent dropped out at the last second and they offered him a completely ridiculous replacement. If they’re the promoter and the matchmaker they should have adequate back-up plans and not make a card that’s so flimsy it needs to be cancelled when the ME falls through.

      Chael’s lustre is already worn off after he got merc’d and then acted all contrite after the fact…are people really that simple minded that they just buy right back into the pro wrestling schtick?!

      • Jaylon B says:

        Yes, and this sorry fight wouldnt have sold more than Henderson. Thats the main talking point. I never seen such delusional fans who dont have a clue like Huddle. Just looking for an argument and attention.

    • The Gaijin says:

      Also, last time I checked each of these guys are independent contractors and not part of a union. Maybe someone like J-Lau would have an argument if he screwed over a union brother or didn’t do something for the greater good – but this is a fight sport and it’s every man for himself.

      In the current climate, Jon Jones owes NOTHING to anyone else but himself. The UFC should be proud, he’s acting exactly how they want fighters to act. In their own self-interest, unfortunately this time his self interest is counter to theirs.

      Randy Couture retired and held up their HW belt for over a year – if he can come back and fight 7 more times and main event ppvs in his late 40s im sure JBJ will do just fine.

    • Tom says:

      Apparently Joe Lauzon doesn’t know what ‘scorched earth’ means…

  14. 45 Huddle says:

    Joe Rogan got his comedy show cancelled. Completely out of his hands. It got cancelled because of Jones cancelling.

    How much more proof do you need of this guy being a complete POS?

    Rogan, Brenneman, Lauzon….. Of course White & Fertitta losing probably a million because of him.

    • Light23 says:

      If Rogan had to cancel his show, it means nobody is willing to fly to Vegas to see it on its own, or there’s nobody already in Vegas who wants to see it.

      The reality is that he’s piggybacking off a Jon Jones fight to get an audience for his gig.

    • The Gaijin says:

      PPFFFFFT….now you’re stretching to some absolute lows. Jon Jones is to blame for Joe Rogan’s shitty comedy show getting cancelled?!!?!?!?

      BWAHAHAHAHAHA…that’s 100% Joe Rogan’s fault for sucking dick at comedy.

  15. 45 Huddle says:

    More fighter reactions. Nothing is really positive towards Jon Jones.

    The fighters understand. The owners understand. Even the commentator who never sh!t talks the owners understands.

    But the people here on FO don’t…..

    • Tomer says:

      Considering that said commentator and said fighters are paid by said owners, I seriously doubt you’d see open hostility to said owners (for fear of retribution), so I’m not quite getting what you’re getting at here?

    • Jason Harris says:

      Lots of low rent guys looking to get their name in the papers by jumping on the “Jones sucks!” bandwagon that Dana White started. Yawn.

  16. nottheface says:

    The UFC has bought out Pride, merged with the UFC, and stripped Strikeforce clean and yet, a single fight can undo a ppv. For years MMA fans have been claiming the difference between boxing and their sport is that it isn’t built on a single fight but the whole card. And yet no UFC 152.
    Obviously something major has taken place. If headlining fighters now make a break a card what does that not only say about the UFC’s brand power but also those fighters negotiationg leverage?

    • edub says:

      Great comment. I quoted you on LK, hope that’s alright.

    • The Gaijin says:

      I’ve been saying it for a while, but the real competition is not going to come from an upstart or money mark organization now that Zuffa has completed the great consolidation (WFA, PRIDE, PRIDE, WEC, Strikeforce) it’s going to come from a pissed off marquee fighter.

      I think we’re seeing it a little already with Soares branching out and Anderson being so tough to deal with. Anderson’s probably too old, Brock’s attention span was too short and his armor chinked and GSP’s probably too loyal…but at some point(maybe not soon)we’re going to see a big name guy look at all the numbers (ppv, gate, merch) and their salary and cut they get – and the cherry on top is if they’re getting lambasted unfairly by the boss in public – and say “Hey, I’m the guy that moves the needle, I’m the guy that pops way over our baseline – and I’m getting 2.5% of what I’m bringing in. EFF THIS – I’m going to promote my own fights like boxing and I’ll put on some barebones undercard of former name guys or young bucks and I’m going to take 55%.”

      We’re also seeing guys getting good management and building big brand awareness for themselves, along with big sponsorships (GSP – RushFit, CAA, Gatorade, UA and JJ – Bud Light, Nike)…a storm is coming.

      • Light23 says:

        The problem with this is: who do you fight?

        It’s the UFC promotional machine that showcases all the fighters and builds contenders. Off the top of my head I can’t think of a single fighter Jon Jones could do decent business with outside of the UFC.

        You’d really have to try and sign a bunch of fighters yourself once their contracts ended. Then you’d be in the promotion business, instead of just being a fighter. You’d have all the risk, you’d have to hire and pay all the staff, organize and run the events. And if the event isn’t successful, you don’t get paid.

        The reality is, what Zuffa does is freakin’ hard, and it’s hard to make money at it. The large chunk of money that Zuffa take for their efforts is pretty fair. If it wasn’t, fighters WOULD start up on their own.

        • The Gaijin says:

          Fighters by and large are dumb people and their management is so far behind the curve it’s not even funny. They are also risk averse and will take one pile of money when there is a dump truck to be made.

          It only takes one to figure it out and honestly it’s not hard to find the opponent. Many opportunities have existed but they were not seized upon. And quite frankly if a guy is an attraction they’ll be able to do the first fight or two with less than top rank guys if they can “sell it”. I mean hell, people are frothing at the mouth JJ wouldnt fight a puffed up MW coming off a loss in an undeserved title shot.

          You’re telling me people wouldn’t pay to see Jon Jones fight Brock Lesnar, Randy Couture, Fedor or any host of recognizable names?

          It won’t be easy money – but it never is – but it can be done.

  17. edub says:

    Anybody who think Jones is responsible for this card being dropped is not realistic. It’s not on him that the card was incredibly bare to begin with. It’s not on him to accept a fight from a guy who just a couple days ago Dana white said was “no where close to a title shot”.

    Dana White played the gullible perfect though. Throw Jones under the bus so Zuffa doesn’t get blamed for having a soft card otherwise.

    • diceman says:

      I couldn’t agree more. This fact seems to be lost on everybody- the card was so weak that once Jones was off of it then no one would pay to see it.

      Oh and everybody needs to stop with the “look at how many fighters can’t pay rent now”. All Zuffa needed to do was come up with $600,000 to pay the undercard fighters, which if they were a real employer they would have done without question.($600,000 is less than Lorenzo probably has in his couch cushions)

      The hypocrisy of it all is incredible. Jones is derided by White for being selfish and not being a company man. Then in the same breath says that he is not going to pay all of the fighters who trained months for their fight.

      Hey, sometimes when you run a business things don’t come out the way you want them to. But you still need to fulfill your commitments and not pass blame onto others.

      PS For the record I think Jones should have taken the fight. But this whole “he should have thought of the company” BS has to stop. White has obligations to the other fighters- not Jones.

  18. Chris says:

    I have 0 problems with Jones not taking the fight. The fight game is a business. So why is it ok for Zuffa to treat it like one, but not ok for the fighters to do the same. Jones was looking out for his best interests, which is what a fighter is supposed to do.

  19. fightopinionReader says:

    I think Dana White is being a bit classless here, practically inciting a mob mentality of hate against Jones and Jackson.

    “Another thing is that Jon Jones (reasonably, IMO) is looking towards his interests”

    I disagree. The way to stay in the UFC is to a) not piss of Dana, b) win, and c) be exciting. Violate any of these rules and your UFC career is screwed. Jones violated (a) big time. Dana will blame Jones for the huge money lost (even though he (Dana) shares the blame for having a lousy card that could not withstand the loss of a main event).

    Quite frankly, this wasn’t a hard request to accommodate either, and he would be doing the UFC a huge favor. Sonnen won’t be able to over power a much stronger Jones – Sonnen is a middleweight – and therefore won’t have any offense. Even if Sonnen wins, White will be eternally grateful and a rematch would be scheduled. I am sure Sonnen and White would agree to add a rematch clause in the contract.

    “I still don’t see how Jones is in the wrong here”…

    Not really a question of right or wrong.

    • Tomer says:

      “The way to stay in the UFC is to a) not piss of Dana, b) win, and c) be exciting.”

      Dana White is not going to shitcan a dominant champion who has run roughshod through the 205 division. If Jones lost the belt in the Octagon, he’d easily be able to toss him out since at that point he’s no longer ‘The Man’ at 205, but as it is, Jones has more leverage than you’re letting on. Hell, Jon Fitch, a guy that’s pissed off White on a number occasions with his performances still is signed with the organization despite being knocked silly by Hendricks in his last fight.

      “Quite frankly, this wasn’t a hard request to accommodate either,”

      Actually, it is. Jones had zero to gain and everything to lose by fighting a last second replacement in Sonnen who while ostensibly should get manhandled by Jones, there is always the chance he gets caught cold and loses the belt (see St. Pierre-Serra I). And, as I explain below, the damage from a L to Sonnen would be huge (much bigger than you’re portraying it as).

      “and he would be doing the UFC a huge favor.”

      So what? Why should that bear any relevance at all to his decision making? Dana White isn’t a friend that you’re covering for, he’s a promoter who only cares about the bottom line.

      “Sonnen won’t be able to over power a much stronger Jones – Sonnen is a middleweight – and therefore won’t have any offense.”

      Your opinion, which may or may not be reality. I don’t see why it’s unreasonable to want more time before fighting a quality opponent (even one coming up in weight in Sonnen) or else get paid for the risk level – it’s Finance (and Common Sense) 101.

      “Even if Sonnen wins, White will be eternally grateful and a rematch would be scheduled.”

      Which is completely worthless since Jones’ aura of invincibility would be shot by a smaller guy getting the W over him. The cost of losing, particularly to a smaller guy in Sonnen, is significantly higher than you’re giving credit for and, as I mentioned elsewhere, if I was Jones’ manager I would have told him to do what he did (or else demand a pound of flesh for the disproportionate risk-reward ratio).

  20. Nepal says:

    People are talking about all the bad shows and too many ppv’s. While that’s all true, Jones still fucked up big here. Chael, despite his mouth is hardly a challenge for a beast like Jones. He’s a MW who had no training camp, has no offense weapons other than TD’s and good top control. A huge guy like Jones would eat Chael for dinner.

    If Jones wants financial security as he has been on about lately, he should take this fight. (1) Dana would “take care of Jones” for doing so (2) he would likely smash Chael in round 1 and still be ready for Machida in November. There is no or virtually no risk for Jones and a high monetary gain. It’s a no brainer. Not to mention now half of MMA fandom rightly or wrongly think Jones is a shit for killing the card.

    • Tomer says:

      See my reply above which answers your assertions as well – you’re deliberating understating the risk Sonnen has (just like people did before the first Serra-St. Pierre fight), which is disenguous.

  21. Nepal says:

    Furthermore, the UFC built Jones. They made him a multi-millionaire. I realize this is business but goddamn… a bit of loyalty would be nice.

    It’ll be interesting to see where the UFC sponsored fighter Jon Bones Jones will be doing in future. I don’t see Dana likely lining up joint UFC/Jones promo’s.

    • Tomer says:

      “a bit of loyalty would be nice”

      Why? The UFC shitcans fighters once they extract whatever value they feel out of them (and despite angling that he felt bad about his friend Chuck Liddell continuing to fight on, White had no problem exploiting Liddell, letting him get bludgeoned repeatedly in his last few fights). Loyalty is a two-way street and White hasn’t really shown any to the overwhelming majority of fighters, so why should it be given to White?

  22. Light23 says:

    I don’t have any problem with what Jones did – a change of opponent on three days notice sucks.

    Having said that, I really feel for all the fighters on the card who won’t get paid. Personally, I would have kept the event together if I were in Jones’ shoes.

    However, it’s not really his fault that the UFC didn’t have any backup plan for this event.

    Still, he’s really pissed off a lot of fighters, fans, and the UFC brass. He better hope he keeps on winning and raking in that PPV monah for Zuffa, cos I’m sure Dana is just ITCHING to cut him.

    • Tomer says:

      “Personally, I would have kept the event together if I were in Jones’ shoes.”

      I think you misspelled White, considering that the promoter runs the card, not the fight (unless he’s a fighter-promotion which Mayweather apparently will be shortly). It was White’s call to pull the plug on the card after Jones turned down the last second switcheroo to Sonnen.

  23. Megatherium says:

    Jones saved Dana from himself. Not even Dana and Joe Rogan in their very finest Carny Corner hour could have convinced any but the most dim witted fans to order the ppv of what would have been the most ridiculous title match in recent combat sport history.

    My God Dana, you’re not running a pro wrestling promotion; these are real athletes in real fights! When a fighter in a title fight is injured the week of the fight, the event is cancelled. That is the fight game. And unlike those yokels in Calgary, the Nevada regulations (ticket refund option) enforce this fact. And so the karmic score for the 149 debacle evens out.

    Good grief

  24. The Gaijin says:

    Why didn’t Dan Henderson fight injured?!? Why didn’t Dan Henderson take better care 8 days out of the fight to not get injured?!? Why didn’t Dan Henderson advise everyone of his injury with enough time to make an adequate replacement fight? Was it all the tRT finally catching up to him? This was the biggest fight of Dan’s career and he could have cemented his hall of famer status – why didn’t he just fight through it all!?

    Dan Henderson ruined this card! Dan Henderson screwed the fans out of their money and Dan Henderson screwed Jon Jones out of a legitimate title fight!

    What a POS!!!!

  25. Alan Conceicao says:


    How can they screw this up worse?

    • The Gaijin says:


      WOW. Just WOW.

      • Alan Conceicao says:

        The UFC has completely lost their mind. They’re going to force their next great star into a fight with a one handed JTTS middleweight, and for what? To prove a point to him? And charge the fans money for it? Complete waste of everyone’s time. The only people who won here are the fans in Toronto who had a supershitty PPV they had tickets to who now get to see the 2012 installment of Anderson Silva vs. James Irvin (or Fedor/Lindland).

        • Megatherium says:

          Will Ontario even sanction such a ridiculous size, skill, and rankings mismatch? Wins over Akiyama and Anthony Johnson vault Vitor into a LIGHT HEAVYWEIGHT title fight?

          Let’s hope that Ken Hyashi takes a principled stand against this nonsense.

      • Megatherium says:

        The watering down of UFC events has finally rendered mma the laughingstock of the sports community. Way to go Zuffa!

        Let’s hope Mr Hayashi does the right thing and nixes this tomfoolery.

        • Zach Arnold says:

          Just remember, the Toronto event will feature no commission drug testing.

        • Megatherium says:

          Jeezus Zach, I had no idea. That being the case I suppose it smooth sailing ahead in Toronto then. They must be kicking themselves right about now that they didn’t schedule this fight for Toronto.

          Could a pulled a Sonnen vs Belfort last minute switcheroo and pocket the gate and split town Calgary style.

          Tough luck. LOL.

    • Megatherium says:

      On the bright side, Smoogy’s Karny Korner thread on the UG is going to be a barrel of laughs for this fight.

      And you thought 149 was a challenge for Dana and Joe!

    • nottheface says:

      Can someone explain to me how this makes any sense? UFC 151 has already been canceled, UFC 152 already had a full booked card (no matter how weak its headliner was) they were selling. Why have Jones fight on that card if there’s no worthy contender? Why not wait to book him against someone that’s earned it in the division now that there’s no rush? It seems as if the UFX has been in fullscale panic mode lately with their shows.

      I’m beginning to think Zuffa is not the genius tacticians I thought they were.

      • Megatherium says:

        I have been puzzling over this one myself. Either the Flyweights aren’t drawing flies to the ACC event in Toronto and the event needed shoring up to put asses in seats, or maybe they felt the need to draw a decent ppv number sooner rather than later. Or maybe they’re just determined to make Jonny Bones take a mean nothing middleweight squash match just to spite Jones/Jackson.

        My guess is a little of each, but with these guys, who really knows anymore. I don’t really savvy the game plan anymore. It’s possible that it didn’t require genius intelligence to sell two guys fighting in a cage to middle American male youth after all. Just the right connections.

        Who knows, right?

      • Alan Conceicao says:

        They’re putting an ultimatium out there with Jones that he must fight who they want him to or pay the penalty of being released. Unfortunately, they have no one decent to put in the ring with Jones, so we may be seeing his last performance of 2012 (hopefully not) fighting Vitor Belfort in a joke.

        • Tomer says:

          I wonder if they tried to get Alexander Gustafsson or Glover Teixeira to agree to a switcheroo for UFC 152 but they turned down the less-than-month period…

        • Alan Conceicao says:

          They apparently had Machida and Shogun turn the fight down. Can’t blame them – who wants to march into that fight with that guy on 3-4 weeks notice for perhaps your last title shot?

  26. RST says:

    Vitor is a perfectly absurd choice!

    The only positive to be gleaned from all of this is NOT rewarding Sonnens antics.

    Sonnen would probably be a better fight (?),
    but twitter title shots will be the ruin of us.

    If they aren’t already.

  27. Chromium says:

    Jon Jones is a complete and utter bitch.

    That being said I agree with Zach that they’ve spread themselves too thin. They do not have the depth for this.

    If they can add the Strikeforce fighters, add two or three women’s divisions (yeah I went there), and grow the lower weight classes to be more relevant (Flyweight is still in the embryonic stage, but the real problem is that Featherweight has all of three stars right now even with Frankie Edgar dropping down), then yes maybe they’ll be able to pull off 30 or even 40 shows a year, but right now they are stretched too thin and now they’ve fucked themselves.

    First off in addition to trimming a few cards, they need to trim some of the roster bloat in FW, LW, WW, and MW so they don’t have such a glut of people that even hardcore nerds couldn’t identify, and reduce the number of cards a bit. Fuel TV is a stupid channel to put so many resources into. I know part of the deal is to help Fox “grow” the channel but they should cap the number of annual Fuel TV cards at 4 or maybe even 2. It’s just too small a channel, far smaller than even Versus was. Meanwhile they can still do prelims for FX shows. Helping Fuel by putting full cards on it hurts the UFC.

    • Tomer says:

      “Jon Jones is a complete and utter bitch.”

      Why? For not acccepting a last second switcheroo? This is a professional combat sport, I don’t see why Jones is a bitch for not wanting to be caught flatfooted by a change in opponent, but maybe you can enlighten me otherwise?

      • Chromium says:

        Perhaps “bitch” is the wrong word. He is much more of an idiot than a bitch, but his lack of fighting spirit is very lamentable.

        He is a World Champion and turned down what in every aspect should have been an inferior replacement other than financially (even if Sonnen had had a week’s lead time on Hendo’s injury and had been training that week that hardly would have made him a bigger threat than Hendo), reportedly knowing that in doing so the event would be cancelled. If Jones had taken the change in opponent, he could have simply asked for the stipulation of an automatic rematch in case he had lost. Dana White would have given him that in a heartbeat. He would not have lost his place in line. He could have made a ton of money in the rematch and had the opportunity to become one of only a handful of two-time world champions in this sport.

        The truth is he didn’t actually have much at all to lose by taking the fight. Him turning down the fight was his right but it was incredibly unbecoming of his status as World Champion, particularly knowing the consequences to the company and his fellow fighters.

        He protected the training regimen he was comfortable with, that’s it. How Sonnen is supposed to be a tougher opponent than Henderson I have no idea other than just maybe Sonnen got under Jones’ apparently very thin skin. If he considered that to be worth the damage done to everything around him then I have no sympathy for him for all the venom he is getting (okay the racial stuff a few people are saying is fucked up but I actually haven’t seen a ton of that).

        So okay, maybe he’s not a total bitch but I certainly have to question his heart.

  28. ergface says:

    DW throwing Jones under the bus rather than just chalking this up to circumstance will haunt him in the future. Also disappointing is how easily the MMA fanbase has been conned into demanding a Sonnen title shot.

  29. 45 Huddle says:

    Anderson Silva, after learning the news of the event being cancelled called Dana White and said he would have been willing to fight Jon Jones on 8 days notice.

    So for all of the people defending Jon Jones…. Silva was willing to move up in weight class and fight while not being in shape.

    That is a real champion.

    • Tomer says:

      Silva couldn’t possibly have been posturing, could he? Hmmm…

    • The Gaijin says:

      Incorrect. Anderson Silva was willing to move up a weight class to fight A 205 lb fighter – the caveat was that he would NOT fight Jon Jones.

      “Anderson Silva was close to saving UFC 151.

      According to UFC president Dana White, Silva, the middleweight champion, personally called him just moments after he announced on Thursday that UFC 151 was canceled after Jon Jones turned down a fight against Chael Sonnen. Silva, who admitted he wasn’t in the best shape, volunteered to fight on eight days’ notice in Las Vegas against another light heavyweight fighter. Unfortunately, he was a few hours late as the promotion had already decided to scrap the event.”

      Nice try.

    • edub says:

      Do better research next time. You’re looking like you have absolutely no intelligence in this thread.

  30. Steve4192 says:

    On the positive side of things, at least the Jones/Belfort fight will settle once and for all who Jesus loves more … Protestants (Jon) or Catholics (Vitor).

    Who will he forsake?

  31. david m says:

    Just a clarification–my understanding is that Anderson offered to fight anyone OTHER than Jon Jones at 205 at UFC 151. He wants no part of Jon Jones, and if that fight were to ever happen, they would promote the fuck out if it; it would not be an 8 day event.

    IMO Silva is #2 or #3 LHW in the world behind Jones and possibly Lyoto. I think he would crush Rashad or Rampage or Shogun or Gustaffson.

  32. RST says:

    What I thought was kinda interesting was that Jack Slack fellow just pointed out that Chael started his antics maybe a week before Hendo pulled out,
    and we hear that Hendo knew that he was injured a few weeks before announcing it,
    so Chael and Hendo were playing a game to manipulate Chael into position.

    Which makes me all the more glad that Jones refused to play patsy, and all the more disgusted that Dana is such a petty and stupid mark.

    @ Zach, there appears to be something wrong with the comment formatting.
    All reply’s are going to the bottom of the page.

  33. 45 Huddle says:

    Jon Jones’s publicist quit last week before this whole thing went down.

    Nobody can handle Jones.

    Former Champions like Chuck Liddell have said he should have taken the fight.

    He has pissed off too many people here. If he loses to Belfort, I wouldn’t be shocked if he is fired. And then I know people will complain that this is not a sport…. blah blah blah….

    Teams trade players for being b!tches. Nobody in MLB would touch Ricky Henderson later in his career despite still being able to play the MLB level because he was such a b!tch.

    I think the entire MMA roster is pissed at him.

    • Chromium says:

      There is no way Jones gets fired if he loses to Belfort, he is still too valuable.

      However, he would have a very long road back to the championship as opposed to an immediate rematch.

  34. Megatherium says:

    UFC 151 : Slaughter In Hogtown

    Jones vs Belfort


  35. RST says:

    Its becoming as apparent as can be IMO,
    that it is DANA who INTENTIONALLY cancelled the entire 151 card specifically so that he could blame it to his twitter legions on Jones as punishment for Jones not cow-towing!

    This is the exact same maneuver he pulled when he fired all of AKA because Fitch didn’t feel like signing over the rights to his face and social security number for eternaty,
    and that he pulled again when he fired all of Golden Glory when he didn’t get what he wanted from… wasn’t it Overeem that time!

    This IS NOT the first time that he has thrown this exact same juvenile tantrum!

  36. RST says:

    And remember that time when jackson screwed over one of his longest team members Rashad at Dana’s request?

    Then Dana later calls him a “sport killer” and “card murderer” when the champion that Jackson helped CREATE doesn’t obay Dana’s last second illogical whim!

    And that is exactly the kind of respect that cow-towing to Dana’s flighty twitter whims will earn you!

  37. Jaylon B says:

    Huddle, stop posting bud. You are showing that you are not very smart here. Saying some off the wall things just to troll.

    White cancelling the card showed number of things:

    1) He doesnt trust anyone else on that card, they are all begging for table scraps but are upset at the wrong person. Dana White is who they should be mad at. He doesnt believe they can pull their weight and entertain the fans.

    2) Jones has done enough for UFC, UFC didnt make jones. Jones made Jones with his talent.

    3) Fans who are whining about card cancelled are the same ones who whined about too many shows and wouldnt order the PPV anyways. They just go freeload at their bar or hooters. So what are you losing here?


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