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UFC 134 Rio at HSBC Arena: Nogueira prolongs his career with win over Brendan Schaub

By Zach Arnold | August 27, 2011

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How the odds looked going into the show

Topics: Brazil, Media, MMA, UFC, Zach Arnold | 81 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |

81 Responses to “UFC 134 Rio at HSBC Arena: Nogueira prolongs his career with win over Brendan Schaub”

  1. 45 Huddle says:

    Could care less about basically the entire prelims.

    The PPV is really good. I think Anderson Silva is going to put on a true performance as he is not going to want to look like a fool in his home country. Rua/Griffin is a great rematch that I still don’t think is a given for Rua. Schaub/Nogueira is a 50/50 fight. Barboza/Pearson should be a great stand up fight.

  2. Zheroen says:

    Palhares vs. Miller is a better fight than Lytle/Hardy.

  3. Zack says:

    Paul Harris by kneebah.

  4. EJ says:

    I would give anything for Dan Miller to bust out his neckwrenching guillotine choke and put Palharres to sleep. If anyone deserves to be choked unconsious it’s him, not to mention how overated he’s become which is going to make Miller beating him even sweeter.

    Aside from that this is a very top heavey card as compared to others which usually have several prelim fights that are must see. Also the more that time passes the more i’m thinking of picking Okami for the upset and man what a bummer it would be to have both Shogun and Anderson beat in their return to Brazil.

  5. Kelvin Hunt says:

    I’m really close to picking Okami for the upset…he certainly has the style that can give Silva fits…oh..and better sub defense than Sonnen…lol.

    • edub says:

      I wouldn’t. His wrestling is based around the clinch, and Anderson is more vulnerable to the blast double when it comes to tdd.

      However, you are riding high from the past two weeks so you might have a point.

      • Tradition Rules says:

        I would agree, but, hopefully, his training with Sonnen will help him focus on shooting in and diversify his takedowns.

        He can at least strike, but, lets be honest, Silva is probably the best pure striker in MMA, and Okami’s offense is going to be based on his wrestling.

  6. RST says:

    Fingers crossed for Cane snapping out of it (one of these days.)

    Griffin is a nice guy, but should be a gimme fight for Shogun.
    Like he was for Jackson and was supposed to be for Shogun the first time.

    (Hopefully now that Ninja is retired Shogun wont feel so compelled to drop one periodically just to make his brother feel better.)

    I’ll take Schaub.

    Come on Okami!!!!!!!!

    (BTW: Spencer Fisher is still on the UFC roster?!)

  7. david m says:

    Nogueira has been shot for years. He has a slim chance of finishing the fight conscious.

    I think Anderson will get a KO in the first round.

    If Shogun is healthy, he will destroy Forrest. It is possible at this stage in career, Shogun has simply had too many knee surgeries to ever be anything resembling what he was in his prime.

    • 45 Huddle says:

      And he basically admits he doesn’t know what’s going on as he has no sources.

      Meltzer basically repeated what HH on The UG has been saying. That Overeem & GG tried to play games. They wanted a lot of money and him fighting on the dates Zuffa wanted him was purely based on paying out more money…. Basically showing the claims for injury weren’t that serious.

      Overeem & GG tried to hold the belt ransom, and they played hardball with the wrong guys. End of story.

      TJ Thompson has even said that Pro Elite is not an option for Overeem. So Overeem didn’t make the right move…

      • edub says:

        He obviously didn’t try to hold the belt ransom. He tried to fight in october instead of september.

        They tried to negotiate, and do the same thing Diaz did. It just didn’t work out that way.

        Why in the world would Overeem want to go to ProElite? He will end up in the UFC or back in Japan, one of the two.

        Negotiations are a two way street, and Zuffa kicked his whole team out instead of dealing with it any further. They gotta keep their 80% profit margin.

        • 45 Huddle says:

          When you are still contracted to fight and you tell them you can’t fight until a certain date…. But then demand a lot more to fight on the date the promoter wants…. That’s holding the belt ransom.

          People use to say the same stuff about M-1. That they were just trying to cut a fair deal bad time went on and more promotions wet under we figured out quickly that was not the case.

          GG is barely a step above M-1 in reputation. It’s not a shock they continue to be shady.

          80%? Zuffa has stayed in business because they have a long history of not overpaying and going down that road. People like you still questioning those business practices obviously haven’t been paying attention to 5 years of history….

        • 45 Huddle says:

          Imagine if you hire me to put a new roof on your house.

          I buy all the supplies for you and you pay me for them up front.

          Then I come back to you and say…. Well, I really can’t get to your house for another 6 months…. but if you pay me triple…. I can finish it within the week.

          That is basically what GG & Overeem did with Lorenzo Fertitta.

          You would have fired that guy. Which is exactly what Fertitta did.

          And don’t pull this Zuffa is in power thing. Overeem was the one who tried to pull a POWER PLAY. He had the belt and wasn’t signed until the end of the tournament and thought he could leverage it to the high heavens…..

          He is the one who abused his power…. And he got fired for it. And so did the rest of the people from GG because they are associated with the same business practices…. Which makes 100% sense.

          Which really if you look at it…. A company that is as successful as Zuffa would make logical sense in their business practices or they would have been out of business years ago.

        • edub says:

          No it’s not. It’s negotiating. In the NFL, NBA, or MLB it would be the same thing as a “contract year” for a MVP candidate.

          He also was injured, and still agreed to fight in October. Holding the belt for an extra month is not holding it ransom.

          GG is known as one of the best camps/management teams in the business. M-1 is not. Don’t just make things up because it supports some imaginary point you’re thinking of.

          “80%? Zuffa has stayed in business because they have a long history of not overpaying and going down that road. People like you still questioning those business practices obviously haven’t been paying attention to 5 years of history….”

          Funny, you refuted nothing I said. And yes I pay plenty of attention (as maybe you should). Numbers are posted after almost every event. You can’t hide from that (eventhough you just tried to by making an argument that ran around the original point “Zuffa still in business while others have failed”). That’s not the point of discussion. I said they take 80% of the profits, which from all the numbers that they release is damn close to accurate, and even being generous to Zuffa.

          Zuffa is a billion dollar company. How in the world, do you think it became that in less than 8 years? By giving fighters a fair share of the profits? No, you’re smart enough to know that.

        • edub says:

          “Imagine if you hire me to put a new roof on your house.

          I buy all the supplies for you and you pay me for them up front.

          Then I come back to you and say…. Well, I really can’t get to your house for another 6 months…. but if you pay me triple…. I can finish it within the week.

          That is basically what GG & Overeem did with Lorenzo Fertitta.”

          No that’s a terrible analogy. A better situation to look at is this. Desean Jackson is one of the best receivers in the NFL. And he’s set to make close to the league minimum this year. Instead of holding out, the eagles made it clear they would renegotiate his contract while in camp because he outperformed it. Hold outs happen all the time in major sports, somthing like this is nothing new, and nothing like carpenter not finishing a job he was paid to do.

          “Which really if you look at it…. A company that is as successful as Zuffa would make logical sense in their business practices or they would have been out of business years ago.”

          You can be a successful business, and a cut throat power hungry, profit hogging corporation at the same time. You claim to live in New York, you should know all about this.

        • 45 Huddle says:

          Want an NBA example?

          It’s like saying he needs a raise for his current season or he is not playing for the rest of the season.

          That’s about what Overeem did.

        • edub says:

          That would be a perfect analogy; IF he didn’t offer to fight in October.

        • 45 Huddle says:

          So if he was willing to fight in September it would be a good analogy? From Dave Meltzer:

          “But others have said Overeem’s management were negotiating involving that date if certain unnamed demands were met,”

          Looks like it’s a GREAT analogy to me.

          So once again… His management said he could fight in September, but were trying to hijack it for more demands. And if they weren’t met, he wasn’t fighting.

          Once again, Overeem is in the wrong. Meltzer confirms it. HH on The UG who has broken so many great news stories weeks to months before anybody else had…. Also confirmed this underhanded tactic.

          So it looks like you AGREE with me. Glad we could come to terms on this topic…

        • 45 Huddle says:

          And don’t bring up Nick Diaz as an example again because it makes no sense.

          Nick Diaz used his signed contract as leverage. It was dumb of Coker to give him that clause. But he used a legit contractual option to leverage his way towards a new fight.

          Alistair Overeem leveraged an “injury” that was only going to be an injury unless certain demands were met. That’s garbage. And two sources have confirmed that’s exactly what GG and Overeem did.

          They thought they had the power to do so…. In their wildest dreams, they didn’t think Zuffa would cut the SF Heavyweight Champion 1 fight into a Grand Prix….

          And their backhanded tactics backfired.

        • edub says:

          Dude, stop.

          You keep bringing up guys who have always been overwhelmingly in favor of everything Zuffa does. Just like you have been 90% of your time on FO. This: “But others have said Overeem’s management were negotiating involving that date if certain unnamed demands were met,”;
          is not a ringing endorsement of your opinion. It’s hearsay, just like everything you post from 50%ers MMAlogic, and HH.

          “Once again, Overeem is in the wrong. Meltzer confirms it. HH on The UG who has broken so many great news stories weeks to months before anybody else had…. Also confirmed this underhanded tactic.”

          Yes along with the other garbarge that never comes to light. Predict 10 things, and he’s bound to get some of them right. Nobody remembers most of the stuff that that turns out completely false.

          I see how you abandoned your point about profit though. Smart idea.

          “And don’t bring up Nick Diaz as an example again because it makes no sense.”

          No it makes complete sense. One worked, and the other backfired.

          And just to be clear, no I agree with nothing you have put down when it comes to this situation. You believe EVERYTHING about ZUffa’s side of the story, and opinions from guys who are notorious for their relationship (with Zuffa). I don’t.

    • RST says:

      Its an interesting opinion piece, and thats pretty much all it is.

      He’s probably at least halfway right. Most halfway intelligent people are.
      (I’ll give Bas that on GP.)

      But beyond all that, I personally dont see why it even matters all that much at all.

      I feel bad for coenan, but cutting the Reem seems to be the loudest complaint and IMO he’s just one guy. One difficult to deal with guy who despite what some have said I dont figure is as high as #3.

      The people complaining about UFC cutting the Reem are the same ones who have bought into his legitamacy while beating mostly cans (and also losing to comp) for a few years.

      Like the Fedor mob.
      They’re unreasonable.

      They can continue to follow Fedor and the Reem fighting cans in Japan without the UFC.

      But they’ll complain to the moon how they want Zuffa to pay through the nose, getting zilch in return, just to justify their creepy fixations.

      And they’d still hate the UFC anyway.

      Its a troll job and not worth too much consideration by Zuffa, the media or someone with a brain IMO.

      • edub says:

        “The people complaining about UFC cutting the Reem are the same ones who have bought into his legitamacy while beating mostly cans (and also losing to comp) for a few years.

        Like the Fedor mob.
        They’re unreasonable.

        They can continue to follow Fedor and the Reem fighting cans in Japan without the UFC.

        But they’ll complain to the moon how they want Zuffa to pay through the nose, getting zilch in return, just to justify their creepy fixations.

        And they’d still hate the UFC anyway.

        Its a troll job and not worth too much consideration by Zuffa, the media or someone with a brain IMO.”

        Wow.

        Overeem is the third best in the world because he beat the top ten ranked Brett Rogers, and then a guy who is as high as #2 in Werdum. When you beat ranked competition, you get ranked highly. Your argument would have been valid three months ago. Unfortunatley it’s just stupid now.

        Nobody hates the UFC. Moron.

        • RST says:

          “Overeem is the third best in the world because he beat the top ten ranked Brett Rogers,…”

          Oh dear, are you cereal?

          You’re trying to troll me, but I defy you.

        • edub says:

          You didn’t want to put the end of that sentence in there because it made you look like an idiot I’m guessing.

          Yes, Brett Rodgers was a top ten ranked HW when Overeem beat him. Some places as high as #6. Might want to look that up before sticking your foot in your mouth next time.

  8. 45 Huddle says:

    Strawmam argument that’s it’s now hearsay.

    HH broke Lesnar injured, UFC talking to FOX, and Overeem being tossed out of the tournament before any news outlet.

    How could he be so right on factual stuff and somehow get this wrong? And Meltzer is credible and doesn’t always defend Zuffa.

    You are struggling. My analogy was right and I proved it. Now you are just drowning here….

    • edub says:

      No, you still didn’t prove anything. That’s the problem, you act like you proves something with Zero evidence. Three things, that WERE reported elsewhere (even on the same damn site), along with years of being wrong about contracts, fight schedulings etc., doesn’t make him some beacon of information.

      Your analogy is still dumb, especially the one about painting a house.

      • 45 Huddle says:

        Multiple sources have confirmed that GG played up an injury to get more and that’s not proving anything? Two legit sources. And your still in denial.

        I’ve proven my point. I’ve backed it up with sources. And now you having nothing to refute them except to try and downplay their significance. Which is why it’s a strawmans argument.

        Never has Zuffa fired a manager and his fighters based on their negotiating tactics. So about 10 years and this is a first. And somehow you really think what was done was just normal on GG’s part? Highly highly unlikely. And sources prove that….

        • edub says:

          As I said, and many many many many many people have proven on this site in the past, your sources are a joke. They get killed on here routinely when you bring them up. It’s why few people take what you say on here seriously, and multiple have stopped posting here outright because you continually take insanely stupid positions whenever it involves Zuffa. You hammer out the same ignorant opinions over and over until people wilt and give up coming here altogether. That’s just not going to happen with me.

          Honestly,I don’t even know what were arguing anymore. Is it because you are saying GG played up an injury to get more money? Because I have already said that is exactly what Diaz did (except it was a make believe boxing match instead of an injury). The injury was obviously part of GG negotiations. The thing is it was never the main point of contention, and to think it was is stupid. He was willing to fight in October because he knew with a win he would have Zuffa by the balls. A champion, and a finalist in the most important tournament in the organization that doesn’t have a contract. Zuffa tried to force him to compete faster than he was ready to go, maybe to give Bigfoot a better shot at beating him but maybe not. Then used the injury argument as a valid way to release him, giving the educated Zuffa supporter fan (you) a reason to defend them.

          “Never has Zuffa fired a manager and his fighters based on their negotiating tactics.”

          They fired Ken Pavia multiple times (the last being document related), only to bring him back. They fired all of AKA, only to bring them back.

          Golden Glory has a STELLAR record with every promoter in the business, except Zuffa. There’s a reason for that.

        • RST says:

          IMO, its probably exactly what it seems: hardball tactics.
          Like threatening to fire AKA for that videogame nonsense.

          But where I felt the AKA situation was completely wrong, I think that firing Overeem and Fedor was overdue.

          The residual SF contracts for guys like these are a mess.

          You cant run a business that way.

          Zuffa is pretty well documented to pay the fighters quite well when they’re worth it.

          But The Reem and Fedor have been getting away with overcharging and not delivering for much too long.

          Its ruined Fedor as a fighter.

          Hardline tactics are really long overdue regarding these two.

          I do feel bad for Coenan though.

          An unfortunate peripheral casualty aggravated and brought on by the howls of the Reem fanbois IMO.

        • edub says:

          Fedor, we agree.

          Reem, no point to firing him. He was making peanuts compared to what Fedor is getting. He’s the biggest draw in SF, one of the most exciting HWs in the world, and most importantly he puts butts in the seats. Not to mention, the guy is pretty freakin good (Hasn’t lost in 4 years).

          And no, I’m not a Reem fanboy. I think he’d lose to Cain, Carwin, JDS, and probably Lesnar.

        • RST says:

          @ edub, it really depends on what was asked for in the negotiations.

          The Reem is good, would probably beat the soft shamples of modern Fedor today.

          I’m just surmising here, but maybe the Reem/GG imagine he’s a much bigger draw then he is.

          Then he is in murika at least.

          Maybe they asked for anderson silva money, but the Reem hasn’t stacked up anderson silva achievements to justify it.

          Lyoto is a mob ass fighter, but you have to stack up the achievements to justify it.

          And of course competing in other orgs is just out with Zuffa.

          They have done it before, but for low pole guys, not for high priced acquisitions.

          I would have also loved to see the Reem in the UFC.

          But its basically, IMO, was the money offered enough to be exclusive (Although I would assume that he would be steadily working) and was he worth it?

          We dont know the details.

          Once again, it would have been nice but he’s just one guy.

          But its not all over yet, the exclusive contract is non-negotiable, but if the price is right they could still negotiate.

          Hendo is probably back.

        • edub says:

          Agreed on all parts. Good show.

        • Alexander Mogue says:

          Yeah alot of people are tired of Huddles remarks. His accusations and his theories are so ridiculous that one might think he is just saying them for attention. I stopped because he attemtps to dominate a conversation with stupidity.

        • nottheface says:

          “Zuffa is pretty well documented to pay the fighters quite well when they’re worth it.”

          My problem with this statement, while true, is that it shouldn’t be solely up to Zuffa who is worth what and what their price should be. It should be decided by the market, but there isn’t a market because the market is Zuffa.

          And that fault doesn’t even fall on Zuffa, but on their incompetent competition, the fighters themselves, and, most importantly, the fans whose loyalty lies with the promotion and not the guys they’re actually paying to see.

      • fd2 says:

        FWIW, this would not be the first time Golden Glory played the “Our fighter is injured and can’t fight on the date he’s contracted for, BUT if you pay us triple he will anyway.” They tried to do that to Simon Rutz ages ago and got Gokhan Saki blackballed from It’s Showtime for a couple years.

  9. fd2 says:

    edub: It was when he was supposed to rematch Spong in May of 2009. Rutz talks about it here –

    http://www.fightnewz.net/id47.html

    and you can see Boon’s side of it here –

    http://www.goldenglory.com/news090608.html

    I misremembered; he was only blackballed for a year, not a couple years.

    • edub says:

      Ok, Now I remember that whole fiasco. The whole multiple years thing threw me off.

      • 45 Huddle says:

        But you said: “GG is known as one of the best camps/management teams in the business. M-1 is not. Don’t just make things up because it supports some imaginary point you’re thinking of.”

        BWAHAHAHA!!!

        So this is a THIRD source that is once again confirming Golden Glory’s antics.

        When are you going to just admit you were wrong? Overeem and GG deserved to be fired.

        They have used this tactic in the past. They are using the SAME tactic now, with multiple people confirming it.

        What are the chances that Dave Meltzer and HH both pull out of their behind a negotiating tactic that just happens to be the MO of GG? To say it’s highly unlikely is an understatement….

        But keep on believing that it’s Zuffas fault…. Seems like there is no turn around for you at this point.

        • edub says:

          Easy pom poms.

          I tried to tell you earlier that they did probably use the injury as a part of negotiations: “The injury was obviously part of GG negotiations. The thing is it was never the main point of contention, and to think it was is stupid.” Should I post that again, just so it sinks in? Ok I will : “The injury was obviously part of GG negotiations. The thing is it was never the main point of contention, and to think it was is stupid.”

          It wasn’t the main point negotiations. Like Team Zuffa, and as their towel boy (you), keep trying to tell the world. He has one fight left on his contract, tried to fight in October, and wanted more money to fight earlier than he was ready. He was set to be in an insanely favorable position when it came to negotiating, if he were to beat Big Foot. How that gets left out of your thought process is beyond me.

          BTW, I never said it was a fault of either. You keep trying to make Zuffa into some golden organization that fought back against the tyrannical management of the evil Golden Glory. I have said from the beginning that negotiations were a two way street, and both played hard ball. Zuffa axed them, because they wanted to keep power in negotiations. It is what it is.

        • 45 Huddle says:

          You are a lost cause at this point. I think you just are sticking to a position no matter how wrong you are proven and are just going down with the ship. Others have even provided you links showing GG’s past dirty deeds.

          There is hardball…. And then there is not playing by the rules. GG doesn’t play by the rules. And that’s why they are gone…

          If you are injured, you are injured. If you can’t fight, you can’t fight. But only being healthy when it benefits your negotiations is fraudelant.

          GG has a history of playing up BS injuries in order to extort more money out of the promotions. This is such a bad tactic that Lorenzo Fertitta did something they have never done before… And that is ban a team on the spot.

          And I’m saying… There is fault here. And it’s Golden Glory’s. When they tuck their tiny testicles between their legs and come back to Zuffa (which I believe will eventually happen)… Zuffa won’t be the one’s changing the ways they do business…. GG will be.

          GG was AXED because they lied and were dishonest. Zuffa didn’t play hardball. They just left the court because they didn’t want to play at all.

          Nick Diaz vs. Zuffa…. That was playing hardball…. And a fair game of it…. Although it was created by Coker being an idiot.

        • edub says:

          Not playing by the rules?

          There are no “rules” in negotiating fight contracts. Kind of baffled that you would say that they broke some imaginary set of rules by claiming an injury was more serious than it was in the hopes of getting a bigger contract for their next fight. Whoever negotiates the better deal is the winner of them. Not somebody saying, “hey your not playing fair, just get out”.

          If your implying that lying, or using an unfair advantage of size, money, or political power is wrong then well, you’re a kettle. Zuffa is dishonest as a character trait.

          …or if your insinuating that they weren’t playing by Zuffa’s rules then yes, you’re right.

          I think it will come out eventually that Zuffa,has been negotiating this entire time with the camp. And Overeem ends up in the UFC with a fat new deal.

        • 45 Huddle says:

          Oh, sure there are rules.

          Would any major sports league deal with an athlete saying that they had to sign on their management along with the package like Fedor did? Nope. That’s not playing by the rules.

          Would any major sports league deal with a guy who is using a fake injury to make more money. Nope, not going to happen.

          It’s dirty tactics. And the sports media would complete wreck Alex Rodriguez if he came out and said:

          “Hey, I know the Yankees need me for the playoffs and I’m coming off this surgery…. But I will only come back if they pay me double what they currently are. Otherwise, I will still be injured.”

          Once again, NO ESTABLISHED, LEGIT SPORTS ORGANIZATION WOULD DEAL WITH THAT BS….

          Just like Coenen skipping out of the pre fight press conference. The smell of garbage from GG is coming from all angles.

          They have played these games with K-1. They have played these games with Strikeforce. They can’t play these games with a legit business like the UFC and they are out.

        • edub says:

          Your out of your fucking mind.

          Alex Rodriguez is on a fucking team. In a team sport. In league full of teams. And he gets paid, win or lose. His contract doesn’t jump or drop from game to game as a fighter’s would. His drawing power means nothing when negotiating his contract. The league’s schedule is exactly the same every season (with a few minor tweaks). Overeem went from having his fight pushed back twice over a 5 month period, to being asked to fight within three months or he’d be out of the SF GP.

          There are no “negotiating rules”.

          If you really want to say something that’s valid: No sports organization would make 80% of the profits, have complete power over their employees, and offer no due process when releasing players.

  10. RST says:

    @ edub, out of curiosity what do you think would have been a fair exclusivity offer for the Reem?

    I’d think 80+80?

    Work up from there?

    • RST says:

      120 + 80?

      • edub says:

        Ill answer more in-depth later on if you can wait. On the road now.

        • RST says:

          I can wait, time is endless…

        • Chuck says:

          BWAHAHA!! Oh shit, that was funny man. Bravo!

        • edub says:

          It would depend on what you’re considering when you say fair. In my opinion most of the contracts at the top of the UFC are unfair right now. If you can draw 250,000 PPV buys on you’re own I think you should be getting at least $250,000 to fight. I think it was you who was talking about “Anderson Silva money” earlier (obviously from the whole Machida incident), and I think it’s kind of dumb. Anderson is the pfp best fighter in the world, umteen and o in the UFC, and can draw 3-400,000 buys on his own. And he’s only getting $150,000 to show. I just can’t look at that as fair (although he obviously can, so I shouldn’t care).

          As for Overeem, I would say around 200/150 (because I think he would draw) to show and make with the option to renegotiate in a perfect world. In the world that exists I would say 100/100.

          For comparisons sake: http://www.sbnation.com/mma/2011/7/23/2289848/khan-judah-2011-boxing-news-fight-purse

          That is the fight purse for just the top two fighters on an HBO event, and the promoters are still making good money.

        • edub says:

          “…money” earlier (obviously from the whole Machida incident), and I think it’s kind of dumb”

          Not meaning to call you dumb here, just the saying of “Anderson Silva type money”…

        • nottheface says:

          Arum was once quoted by Iole, who strangely didn’t deny it, that profits from promoting in boxing is measured in the margins and that the boxers take up 80% of the revenue, while in the UFC, the profits are vast and the fighters make something like 20% of the revenue.

          When one looks at the fact that a Pascal, Hopkins, or Khan individually made as much or more in their fights on HBO than the entire payout for UFC 131. an event that generated probably around $10 mil for Zuffa, it seems obvious to me that the fighters are getting the short end of the stick.

          But that’s the genius of Zuffa, they have been able to able to convert their audience into beings fans of the promotion more so than the fighters.

        • 45 Huddle says:

          Boxers taking 80% of the profits is bad for boxing. It leaves no money left over to push the sport forward in the right direction in the future. It shouldn’t be something MMA fighters strive for as it would negatively effect the sport.

          There is a reason why the successful sports in America have a much better pay structure closer to 50% of money to the athletes. That should be the long term goal for MMA fighters as the sport comes closer to it’s maturity stage.

          And since Fedor vs. Henderson show lost money, should the fighters pay some of their money back?

          MMA is still growing. It costs money for expansion. It costs money to buy SF or Pride in order to get more of the top talent under one umbrella.

          When that starts to stop…. Then theoretically there would be more money available to the athletes.

          Not to mention…. Absolutely nobody here knows what Anderson Silva money means. So people saying the UFC doesn’t pay out enough really have no clue what they are talking about…. It’s just bashing Zuffa blindly.

        • 45 Huddle says:

          And who cares if fans care more about the UFC then the fighters. That’s how sports work in America. Athletes come and go. An organization can last for years. It’s better business.

          And it’s no different then cheering for the Yankees or Giants. When an athlete is traded, you boo him.

          I think it’s the best for the sport long term.

          Baseball always says…. Nobodies bigger then the game. And MLb has lasted over 100 years….

        • RST says:

          “…200/150 (because I think he would draw) to show and make with the option to renegotiate in a perfect world. In the world that exists I would say 100/100.”

          I would say that starting at 200+150 might be pretty high. Especially since you just pointed out that silva only gets 150. They would have to make it comparable to the other top guys on the roster, but 100+100 seems reasonable to me to start out with. Maybe for a 2-3 fight contract and then renegotiate up if he indeed sells and performs well.

          I agree, that makes sense to me.

        • edub says:

          “Boxers taking 80% of the profits is bad for boxing. It leaves no money left over to push the sport forward in the right direction in the future. It shouldn’t be something MMA fighters strive for as it would negatively effect the sport.

          There is a reason why the successful sports in America have a much better pay structure closer to 50% of money to the athletes. That should be the long term goal for MMA fighters as the sport comes closer to it’s maturity stage.”

          Exactly.

          I’m never arguing that fighters should be making 80% of the profits. 50% would leave the UFC profit margins more than comfortable.

          20% just isn’t fair.

          “MMA is still growing. It costs money for expansion. It costs money to buy SF or Pride in order to get more of the top talent under one umbrella.

          When that starts to stop…. Then theoretically there would be more money available to the athletes.

          Not to mention…. Absolutely nobody here knows what Anderson Silva money means. So people saying the UFC doesn’t pay out enough really have no clue what they are talking about…. It’s just bashing Zuffa blindly.”

          It’s not the fighter’s problem to buy PRIDE or SF. Their pay should have no effect on those ventures, especially because very little top tier talent was brought in from those expansions. More talent has been let go from SF since their acquisition, instead of brought over to the UFC.

          The money is there for those athletes right now, and they’re not getting it. Zuffa will put off raising salaries to acceptable levels until the fighters stand up against them, plain and simple.

          Anderson SIlva is making less than half of what guys like Amir Khan, Bernard Hopkins, Jean Pascal, and Kelly Pavlik (use to) make on shows that make a profit off half the revenue compared to UFC events. He is being underpaid, no question.

        • edub says:

          RST – Yep, that’s why I said in a perfect world. Him coming in and making more money then Cain, JDS, Carwin, or Mir is bad (let alone Anderson).

        • edub says:

          … and The UFC is not a team. People rooting for the UFC is like people rooting for the NFL, not any particular team in it.

        • nottheface says:

          But he UFC is not a team, and Zuffa is not a league – they are promoters.

          “And who cares if fans care more about the UFC then the fighters. That’s how sports work in America. Athletes come and go. An organization can last for years. It’s better business.”

          And I can’t think of a better example showing why fans will remain happy paying $55 a payeperview so that the owners can give themselves $75 million plus in dividends every year while the fighters get a pittance in comparison – because the attraction is Dana White and the three letter acronym in the cage and not the men fighting. They are an afterthought for most fans.

        • RST says:

          here are tho top earners from 130-132″

          Tito Ortiz: $450,000 (flat rate; no win bonus)
          Ryan Bader: $20,000

          Chris Leben: $92,000 (includes $46,000 win bonus)
          Wanderlei Silva $200,000 (flat rate)

          Junior Dos Santos: $200,000 (includes $100,000 win bonus)
          Shane Carwin: $40,000

          Quinton “Rampage” Jackson: $250,000 (no win bonus)
          Matt Hamill: $32,000

          Frank Mir: $250,000 (includes $125,000 win bonus)
          Roy Nelson: $15,000

        • 45 Huddle says:

          Correct. The UFC is a league. But the basic concept still is there. That if you base the popularity on singular athletes, those guys can lose and get old. If you base the popularity on an organization…. That is more sustainable for the future. It needs to be done like that.

          And the UFC has it harder. Half of the NBA Teams are losing money right now. A lot of MLB teams are also losing money. Same thing happened in the NHL before the strike.

          But those guys can take losses because there will always be a buyer and the value of the teams will stay constant.

          If Zuffa loses money, it’s finished. There is much less room for error.

          As for the payouts…. Tito Ortiz & Quinton Jackson get a cut of the PPV. I wouldn’t be shocked if Frank Mir also does.

          Ortiz always use to complain about money, but his last deal was so good he even said he will never complain about money again.

          People forget that the UFC has only been popular for 6 years. That’s not long enough to get to around that magical 50% payout for fighters. Things need to stabilize and mature first….. Popularity of the sport needs to really stabilize…. And then it will be safer for Zuffa to pay out more….

          And of course some of that will likely have to come out of a union or at least the fighters sticking together….

        • edub says:

          The NBA has yet to release any numbers for half the league “losing money”. It’s much more probable that those teams aren’t losing money, but have profit margins that are declining in the years to come rather than losing money now. They were also dumb enough to give out insanely stupid contracts, and agree to give the players 58% of profits.

          Half the teams in the MLB in no way shape or form are losing money. Even the Marlins (by far the least profitable team in the majors) gets taken care of by the city, and they did that in as shady a way as you can imagine.

          A list came out a while back of fighters who get a cut of PPV. Tito was dropped from that list before or after his fight with Hamill. It never came out if he started getting it again after he took the fight with Rashad on short notice, but that could have happened. Mir doesn’t get a cut of PPV. Tito can’t complain because he was 0 for the century leading up to his last contract negotiation.

          I agree that 50% isn’t feasible right now, but a steady increase should he part of the past couple years. If the profit margins were up to around 35% by now, it would be understandable. I also think it giving out profit margins like that would kill the other organizations by itself just because they wouldn’t be able to keep up with the pay scale, rather then having to buy them out.

        • edub says:

          You gotta also add in, that those players in MLB and NBA make money not only in their contracts, but also from every dollar the NBA brings in on merchandising and advertising.

          The UFC pays out little profits from things like ad revenue, charachter merchandising, and things of that nature.

        • Light23 says:

          When talking about fighter pay, I was quite surprised when I really added up the figures.

          If you include base level sponsorship estimates (http://www.fightofthenight.com/featured/ufc-fighters-sponsorship-earnings-revealed-by-mma-agent/) many random UFC fighters would be in the top 10% income in the UK. There’s a ton of lower card guys who would be in the top 1%.

          For example, a guy I picked at random is Kendal Grove, who went 1-2 in 2010, and makes roughly 25/25. If you include the lowest sponsorship estimates given by Malki Kawa, and other bonuses, he made $228,000/£136,500 in 2010. The Top 1% in the UK earn £99k+.

          There’s tons of guys whose pay works out like that.

          Sure, you can’t fight forever, and Grove is no longer in the UFC, but when an athlete is on one of the top incomes in my country, it sorta puts fighter salaries in a new light to me. There’s doctors here who make £60k.

        • Light23 says:

          Also, many people say not to include sponsorship money since the UFC is not paying it directly to the fighters. However, the UFC is the one who lets them earn that money.

          They don’t have to let any fighters advertise companies on their broadcasts. It’s not the fighter who is attracting the dollars, but the prospect of advertising on a highly watched UFC PPV. Generally it is the main event that draws the fans.

  11. fd says:

    When Lyoto asked for “Anderson Silva type money” he didn’t mean the 150k he gets to show. It means his ppv percentage. Which should be pretty obvious since Lyoto gets 200k to show.

    • RST says:

      Well, we all saw that coming right?!

      And I like the statement right before he mentions randleman:

      “Personally, I’d like to see him face one of the greatest fighters of the best times from PRIDE.”

      So basically Fedor has no plans on fooling around with these new young guns anymore. He’s going on a old timers exhibition tour one way or the other.

      • edub says:

        Yep. Might as well I guess. No point to fighting actual competition when you can fight an over the hill journeyman. Although that might be an insult to over the hill journeymen.

      • nottheface says:

        If the fight is to be marketed only to Japan and Russia then I could see them making that fight, but if M-1 is serious about getting into the US market I don’t see how this fight helps them. Remember when they bailed on Vitor Belfort as a replacement for Barnett when fans threw a fit about him fighting a MW?

      • nottheface says:

        And, I guess the report that they are trying to book a match with Randleman is fabricated. But they are supposedly trying to book Mike Whitehead or Travis Wiuff, who look better only because they aren’t Randleman.

        • edub says:

          Ah, shoulda known.

          Whitehead would be a step up from Randleman, but not much.

          Random question: Did anything every happen to Whithead after those Rape and Pt distribution charges?

        • Steve4192 says:

          Whitehead’s case is still pending. He probably will not be able to get a work visa overseas.

          I guess that leaves us with the Fedor versus the YAMMA champ.

  12. Alan Conceicao says:

    I guess Okami has done as much as anyone to deserve a title shot, but this is the kind of fight that needs to be on TV and not PPV. Since I’ve been saying that for 4 years or so now, I guess it doesn’t matter though and instead it headlines a mediocre card. Pearson/Barboza is sorta interesting though it could just as easily be prelim material elsewhere and I like Forrest to beat the hell out of Shogun again in a competitive and entertaining bout. The rest? Who cares. Shot guys, journeymen, and nobodies along with a crew of featherweights that it seems the UFC couldn’t give two shits about. So much for the WEC making those guys ready for primetime. LOL

    • Light23 says:

      Eh? I don’t understand such sentiment.

      We have Anderson freakin’ Silva in one of the few fights he has remaining, against the best available contender, in Brzil.

      Then we have two top ten guys in the former champ against another former champ.

      Then the return of a legend, who is finally healthy, against an up and coming heavyweight.

      Maybe I’m biazed because I don’t have to pay $55 for it, but this is a great card.

  13. edub says:

    Something occurred to me just now about the Griffin-Rua after surfing the mma world for a couple days:

    Whoever, loses will be crucified.

    Both are top 6 LHWs (I don’t see how Henderson is ahead of Forrest in any realistic rankings system). Both have defeated champions. Both have had bad defeats, but were against the absolute top of the division.

    However, it seems like fans miss all those factors. Whoever is unfortunate to walk out of the cage with the “L” (I’m picking that to be Griffin, but to me it’s only about 51-49% in that thought process) is going to be looked at as overrated, past his prime, and shot as a top level contender.

    Quality of competition means absolutely nothing to a lot of fans.

    • 45 Huddle says:

      If Rua loses, I bet he makes the cut to Middleweight.

      If Griffin loses, I bet he stops cutting weight and competes at Heavyweights.

      It’s the only logical career steps for the loser of this fight.

  14. […] Odds on All the UFC 134 Fights for the Betters Out There (FightOpinion.com) […]

  15. liger05 says:

    Silva won with ease.

    Noguiera won but boy did he look slow. moved like a 70 year old man!!

  16. Kelvin Hunt says:

    Actually…Noguiera seemed a bit quicker than in the past…he slipped Schaub’s jab pretty well with decent head movement. I think him coming forward and pressuring Schaub suprised Schaub and threw him off a bit. Excellent upset.

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