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Bellator’s Bjorn Rebney: “We’re not bleeding”, says they’re breaking even
By Zach Arnold | April 6, 2011
The news coming out of this weekend’s Bellator show on MTV2 is not especially positive. The promotion drew 174,000 viewers for last weekend’s fight between Eddie Alvarez and Pat Curran. By comparison, last Friday’s Strikeforce event with a lackluster card drew 214,000 viewers on Showtime.
(If you haven’t already done so, read Eddie’s interview that we transcribed talking about why he’s with Bellator and not the UFC.)
What’s been clear so far with Bellator’s MTV2 deal is the following:
- The platform is not a great one for the promotion. It’s core demos are pre-teens and teenie boppers. (Take note of this for later reference.)
- The shows air on Saturday nights. They are having to run opposite to Zuffa-owned shows (either UFC or Strikeforce.) They also face weekly sports competition such as big boxing events, college football season, March Madness, and playoffs of other leagues like MLB & the NBA. It’s an onslaught they are facing in terms of keeping eyeballs amongst the network’s demographic with all the sports-related programming available.
- The time slot is not consistent. That’s a result of reason #2 and it’s hurt the promotion to some degree. If you’re a glass half-full kind of guy, you can say that retaining 170,000 viewers of the 230,000 that watched the second show is not a bad retention rate. Then again, I think a ceiling of 230,000 viewers is a little bit underwhelming.
Combine these points with points made from outlets like MMA Payout and MMA Supremacy about the financial backing of Bellator (along with Bjorn Rebney’s history as a promoter) and, suffice to say, Bellator faces plenty of challenges as far as being on the road to being a long-term successful organization.
During a recent interview with Sherdog, I was struck by the tone of the sales pitch that Mr. Rebney said in regards to why he thinks Bellator is a good star-making platform for up-and-coming fighters in MMA.
“I mean we got the platform with MTV2 live on Saturday nights. One of these guys is going to fight three times in a 80 million home universe, literally you know before the end of May is going to win our world title and it’s the same kind of thing that we were able to accomplish with Eddie Alvarez, with Hector Lombard, (Joe) Warren came over here a year ago and unless you were a hardcore fan of MMA, you had no idea who he was. Now he’s on TNA Wrestling on Spike. He’s doing all the promos. He’s all over the television. You know, it’s a quick format that allows a guy to really come out of nowhere and, you know I mean, if you look out of our organization, look at a guy like Jon Jones. I mean, I’m watching The Tonight Show and Jon’s on The Tonight Show and a year & two months ago, nobody had any idea who he was.”
One of the problems with Bellator has been what I call the yo-yo effect. They were on ESPN Deportes and had something going there. Then they were on Fox Sports Net. The ratings were OK but they bounced around in terms of different time slots. Running on Thursday nights, however, was a good idea. They were also on NBC & Telemundo. Now they are on MTV2 & MTV Tr3s (which is an over-the-air channel in certain markets like Los Angeles). As I’ve said before, American TV viewers are creatures of habit and are lazy. If you have to challenge them to keep up in regards to finding your program, you’re going to lose that battle even in today’s DVR culture.
Here is Bjorn Rebney’s positive spin on how the suits at MTV2 like the ratings Bellator is drawing for the channel.
“They’re very excited about the program, the MTV Networks executives are, they love what we’re doing, they love the numbers that we’re providing. They love the viewers in terms of the demographic and who’s watching the show. And they know the space, I mean the MTV Networks guys have been, you know, in charge of and running Spike for the last, you know, since it’s infancy. They get MMA better than anybody in television. They know how to shoot it, they know how to produce it, they know how to promo it. You know, you’ve seen our promos on Spike, on MTV, on MTV2, and the billboards in Times Square and billboards across the country. They’re an awesome partner and they’re an awesome partner who understands Mixed Martial Arts and who’s watching it and what it should look like and I couldn’t be happier.”
He does make a fair point that the suits do have familiarity with MMA. (I don’t know if it was a veiled shot at Showtime or not, but I’m sure some will make a natural comparison between the networks.) However, the platform and demographics matter more. Just ask UFC how things with Versus are going. Versus is supposed to be the future rival for ESPN but the channel does not draw the right demographics for MMA and it’s going to be long slog, if it ever happens, for Versus to even be in the same ballpark as ESPN for importance in the sports programming landscape. Mr. Rebney thinks that MTV2 will help Bellator become mainstream as opposed to become an energy-sucking vortex for ratings like Versus has been for Zuffa-promoted MMA.
“I think the growth that we’ve experienced over the last two years since we’ve launched on ESPN Deportes has been amazing. I mean, we’ve gone from a three million home universe on Deportes to kind of a good alliance on Fox Sports Net and NBC but bifurcated because of all of the delays and pre-emptions. Now we’ve got this spectacular home, 25 shows on MTV2, 80 million homes, every Saturday night for more than half the year. I mean, that’s the catalyst. If you look at where the UFC was and where the UFC has gone, you know, you can argue, you know, back and forth, but the single greatest catalyst that they’ve had is The Ultimate Fighter on Spike. That is the driving force behind the brand development and maturation of The Ultimate Fighting Championship is that show on Spike network. And that show has allowed us to tune in, fans to tune in week-after-week, year-after-year and see the development of stars, to see guys come out, tos ee the development of the brand, to listen to the brand messaging, to be pointed to PPVs, etc. That week-in, week-out, same-time same-place channel development and partnership is the key to building out a Mixed Martial Arts organization. That’s the reason why the IFL, it’s one of many reasons, that the IFLs, the Elite XCs, the Bodogs, the Afflictions were never able to turn the corner or never able to reach cash-flow break-even. So, the key is to really take this partnership that we have with MTV Networks and continue to build upon it, to enjoy the cross-promotion across all of the different networks underneath their platforms, the Spikes, the MTVs, the MTV2s, the Comedy Centrals, the MTV3s, and to keep putting on great shows … that those shows, you know, keep kicking ass and taking prisoners. That’s what you have to look for. You have to produce great shows, you have to have great content, you have to have great partners and just build it.”
During the Sherdog interview, the Bellator CEO was asked an ill-informed question when the idea was pushed that Bellator could build up MTV2 into a big media platform like The Ultimate Fighter ‘saved’ Spike from being an irrelevant network.
(The flaw, of course, is that WWE was on Spike with RAW and it was that lead-in that helped orchestrate the success of TUF. When WWE left Spike to go to USA, then TUF & UFC was inserted into the ‘ace’ programming slots.)
“What may have been at the time a marriage of convenience ended up being the greatest marriage of sports entertainment television in our space. I mean, but for Spike, there’s no general market crossover for the UFC and but for the UFC, there’s probably very limited brand recognition for Spike. I mean, they were the perfect alliance and partnership. Spike has done an amazing job building up the UFC. So, you know, you look at a group like MTV2, MTV2 has been around for a while. They have a successful, they do good numbers on a consistent basis for their cable network so they’re not new like Spike. In other words, people kind of know what MTV is about, what MTV2 is about but, you know, I think if we can continue to do strong numbers on Saturday nights and we can continue to grow them at a regular time slot, I think we can impact how people perceive MTV2 as an outlet for live sports competition as opposed to kind of the typical content and format that they play on MTV2. I think we can build them. At the same time, I know they can do an amazing job building us because the kind of response we’re getting now and the kind of interviews that are taking place and the kind of places that Bellator is now showing up, it is really dramatic. But, you know, being partnered with a group under the Viacom umbrella and under the MTV Networks banner is a powerful, it’s a magical partnership for us. It’s a great place to be in and I think we can benefit them but I think they can also have an amazing impact on what happens with us.”
An interview answer that made me chuckle was when Mr. Rebney was asked to compare the demographics Bellator & MTV2 attract versus the demos that UFC & Spike TV attract. Read how he frames the demographic he attracts and makes it sound as good as the demos UFC appeals to.
“We’re drawing a much different demographic on UFC than what the UFC is drawing both to their PPVs and to their Spike programming and it’s a very attractive demo, you know, it’s a socio-economically impressed young male demographic that skews younger than the demographic watching The Ultimate Fighter and turning into PPVs. So, when you have content, when you have a show that can week-in and week-out deliver hundreds of thousands of young male consumers, which is kind of your key, key, key consumer that advertisers that are trying to reach in this country and across the world, there’s no reason to believe that we couldn’t live in great harmony, leveraging the great expertise at MTV Networks who have helped build the UFC out to where it is and build this brand out under the same corporate umbrella. I mean, when you look at places at like Disney and places like Viacom, major entertainment giants in our space, they control a multitude of different networks. They control a multitude of different distribution platforms. So, you know, there’s no reason that you can’t anticipate that we can build out for many, many years to come as part of our deal and Spike can continue building out with the UFC and having the amazing, positive impact that they’ve had on that brand, all under the same umbrella. I mean, they control and own an awful lot of different things that we watch and tune into and buy tickets to see. So, I think, you know, there’s no question that they can both exist very comfortably in the same space.”
Trying to argue which demographic is more financially valuable is, of course, laughable. UFC draws the 18-34 demographic which spends money on PPVs and tickets and features people who, hopefully, have gainful employment and are willing to spend some of their income on purchasing what Zuffa is selling. That’s a lot different than pre-teens who are ‘influenced’ and tell their friends and parents to watch a show on MTV2 but not to pay for a PPV.
(And, if you take that into account, so far the message of watching the show on MTV2 is not working to increase ratings. At least for an immediate impact, so far, it isn’t.)
What struck me about comments the Bellator CEO made during the interview about who his financial investors have been is that he claims that the promotion is not bleeding cash, that they are ‘cash-flow break-even’ and that the company right now is in a good financial position. That sounds rosy compared with what MMA Payout has been reporting for a couple of years now about Plainfield Asset Management, which is a hedge fund that is reported the company’s majority stake holder. It costs money to air live every weekend on satellite. It costs money to pay fighters like Eddie Alvarez. To have so many shows and a limited amount of office staff to promote the live events can be challenging. Just on the outside-looking-in, the gut feeling one might have is that right now things are kind of like a tight-wire act, especially with the 800 pound elephant in the room with UFC. Let’s not forget that UFC lawsuit against Bellator & Ken Pavia, either.
I do think the comments made about not necessarily hitting PPV are interesting. One of the big reasons, in my opinion, that UFC went after the Strikeforce assets is because SF was eventually going to have to make it on PPV in order to make their promotion financially strong and profitable. So, as long as you present yourself as not being a threat to Zuffa on PPV, you would think that they wouldn’t particularly care about what a player like Bellator is doing.
(Of course, from modern pro-wrestling history looking and studying how Vince McMahon operates, we know how the story plays out given Dana White’s Vince-like tendencies. You may not want a war or want to provoke the giant but they may bring it to you no matter how ‘nice’ you play. The lawsuit is proof of that.)
PPV has to be the end-game for Bellator long-term if they want to be profitable. I can’t see how it isn’t a heavy part of the equation. Domestic PPV may not be hot for them but international PPV certainly could be (ask WWE).
Bellator’s delicate position right now in the MMA landscape, I think, was most reflected in this answer when Mr. Rebney was asked about whether or not Bellator will focus on growing their own fighters or if they would get into the big-name free agent/castoff game.
“We stay with the build-our-own talent model, I mean without any question and given the fact that, you know, combined now there are hundreds of fighters under that Zuffa umbrella now I think it’s going to expand the breadth of talent that’s available to Bellator. I mean, the Eddie Alvarezs, the Hector Lombards, the Joe Warrens, the Ben Askrens, the Patricio Pitbulls, the Patricky Pitbulls, the Chandlers, those are the guys that we’re going to build out. And I’ve said it many times, I think Eddie’s the best Lightweight in the world, I think Eddie beats every 155 pounder on Earth today. I think Hector is a freak of nature and could compete against any of the top 2 or 3 guys in the world at 185 pounds, you know, Joe Warren is ranked by a lot of people as the #2 Featherweight on Earth and has maybe the biggest heart I’ve ever seen in Mixed Martial Arts. So, I like our strategy, I like our business model. You build guys out, you do it quickly, you do it on national television, you give them three fights in 90 days and they go from being a virtual unknown in the general market to being a well-known commodity. But, yeah, Bellator has never been and will not be a landing spot for castoffs from other organizations. Now that’s not to say that, you know, I look at it just like you guys do. Some guys get cut by the UFC or come out of, you know, with Sengoku & DREAM in very tenuous position in terms of their business. Marlon Sandro is coming over, Ronnie Mann is coming over, those are two stars from Japan at 145, both of them ranked in the Top 12 in the world. I mean, we’re going to take guys like that in a heartbeat. They haven’t been over here and been on big-time national television but they’re huge talents at 145. We signed Ben Saunders. Ben Saunders was one of those guys that I scratch my head from the UFC. As a fan, I was like “Saunders got released? He’s hugely entertaining to watch, that’s a great fighter at 170, I’d love to see him go,” and so he became available. So, there’s not a line in the sand where we say, ‘Hey, you fought for the UFC, so we’re not going to sign you,’ but our strategy remains building up the Christian M’Pumbus and the Nik Feketes and the Raphael Davis’ and the Hectors and the Eddies and the Joes and that’s our model.”
Bellator has signed a lot of guys recently. The big question to ask right now about the organization is what their bottom is and are they going to be able to stay afloat long term & be successful without having to sell to someone else or find new money marks who might find Bellator as a ‘turnkey operation’ to buy out and run with their own management.
Topics: Bellator, Media, MMA, UFC, Zach Arnold | 32 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |
Great article.
Let me give a quick comparison between two fighters…. Phil Davis and Ben Askren. Both are up & coming high level prospects with a NCAA Wrestling background. Let’s assume Ben wins this weekend…..
1) Davis is 9-0. Askren will be 8-0.
2) Since the start of 2010, Davis is 5-0 in the UFC. Askren will be 5-0 in Bellator.
Now, which fighter would you rather be? Askren has a small ceiling on how much he can make. Can’t get out of a championship clause in his contract.
Phil Davis at least has the POTENTIAL to make big money in the UFC if he keeps winning. And if he doesn’t, he will still be making at least Bellator level money and certainly more then Ben Askren. Bellator is great at building up a name to a very very small hardcore fanbase. But it does nothing for the fighter to get any sort of casual fan interest. And it really is a black hole that is impossible to get out of.
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“Cash Flow Break Even” is a fancy way of saying they are losing money. Rebney tries far too hard to make everything come off sounding good when if you just take 2 seconds to really listen to what he is saying, it’s skewed bs.
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And speaking of if they are making money or not…. What the ratings do is make it nearly impossible for them to turn a profit in the future. There is no way MTV2 is going to pay out enough money when less then 200,000 viewers turn in every week.
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The big worry for the sport of MMA is when (not if) Bellator goes out of business…. What will happen to the fighters under contract. I get the feeling we could easily see them be caught in limbo for 6+ months.
I don’t see Showtime getting into business with him to save the business. First, I don’t think the MTV2 contract would allow it. Second, Rebeny has a bad reputation from boxing and the Showtime guys are likely fully aware of it.
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As for the PPV plans…. Not going to happen. They wouldn’t even sell 10,000 PPV’s. The cost of running the event would put them in the red.
45 Huddle,
It trashes a very small competitor, but competitor none the less, of the UFC, so of course you would like it.
Zach,
There is so much going on in the world of MMA, but all I consistently see from are pieces trashing organizations that are not the UFC. We all know Bellator is a small player compared to the UFC, but you have dedicated two in depth posts (this one and the one about Eddie Alvarez) directly.
IF the UFC is 99% of the sport of MMA (which I agree that it is), then why focus on its last remaining competitor, and if that is the case, why write articles that trash said competitor?
Is this your way of gloating and/or running a victory lap about how “predicted” the UFC would buy Strikeforce and/or Strikeforce would go out of business?
*laughs*
What are you talking about? I’m serious, I completely do not see where you are coming from. If that was a negative ‘hit piece’ on Bellator, then why did I include – verbatim – tons of quotes? There’s a difference between being skeptical and laying out the case on both sides as opposed to doing a hit job. That was not a hit piece by any means. I told the truth.
In Canada they air on the Score, but unfortunately all of their cards show up on my guide as “World Extreme Cagefighting”.
I dont know why but everytime this guy times I grind my teeth. Its like he is so full of
shitits hard to read without laughing.Mark it down Bellator wont be around in a 2 years and thats pushing it, maybe less then that.
This guy wants to sell Lombard being able to hang with top 3 MW, yeah cause he has beaten so many top MW right?
why was he scratching his head about Saunders? Saunders is a nobody.
Honestly Bellator has good fighters but I would rather top prospects go to the UFC or SF cause they can become someone in the UFC, in Bellator we cant really find out how good they are.
Dudu Dantas signed with Bellator, he is a stud BW prospect, he wins the BW tournament, beats Fun Size to be the Bellator BW champ, then what? He isnt fighting Cruz, Faber, Torres, Jorgensen, Bowles, so we dont know what he can be.
A guy like Barao or McDonald in the UFC we can find out how good they really are.
I like watching prospects, I like watching Bellator but I find myself hoping top prospects stay away from them. I dont want to see top prospects be stuck in Bellator. Askren has a good challenger with Hieron or Hawn but there comes a point that he wont have anyone higher to fight and we dont know if he is really an elite WW talent or not.
And Bellator thinks they are a top major org with tight contracts when really they are nothing more then a feeder org, only they dont know this. Bellator would be perfect for the sport if they were a feeder org, allowed prospects and cast offs a chance to make it to the big shows and win a tournament, get some cash, exposure and then move on. Instead they lure them in with the tournament and 100k and they sign and they are locked up for a long time win or lose.
would ufc swoop in for bellator like they did w strikeforce?
I really don’t see that happening. Why pay for something that may collapse on it’s own and is basically no threat? Bellator is a competitor for talent, that’s all, and even there they only have a handful of truly elite fighters, at least outside of their women’s division. The UFC might “swoop in” and buy Bellator’s tape library and trademarks for a small fraction of what they’d sell for now if they collapse.
Even if Bellator manages to survive, they are a very long way from stealing a meaningful number of UFC fans.
They should concentrate on turning a profit (not happening with weekly viewership around 200,000), and putting out an entertaining product that has enough differences from the UFC not to be UFC-Lite (they have had some success in this area, although Askren’s mentality is counterproductive, since entertaining fights are critical to Bellator’s success as they can’t touch the UFC on credibility).
Bellator just needs a little time. They have had four great shows on mtv2 so far. This site does way to much head shaking at non zuffa product just because it doesn’t sell as much, when it should be nodding its head for the excellent fights and high level grapplers which Bellator has signed.
And the stupidness that Davis is doing better in the ufc, blah blah blah, well if he loses a couple times and wears the wrong shirt or farts during an interview then he’s cut. I don’t see Bellator cutting Askren for any of these reasons(insert Alvarez disposable fighter comments here). Look at Coleman he beats the gatekeeper Bonner has a close war with shogun(that made the show) gets beat by the ex champ and is broomed even though there is a tito fight looming. Now thats stupid.
As far as legitimate fighters Bellator has them in spades in the lighter weights. I mean Garcia? he got beaten by Huerta who got destroyed by Alvarez, but he’s still fighting and sucking in the ufc.
Bellator is the new pride.
Bellator being the new PRIDE? Slow down there cowboy! That comparison is WAY off mark. A few reasons…..
PRIDE started with a ton of money (pro wrestling and yakuza money to be exact) on a big stage with huge stars (Nobuhiko Takada, Rickson Gracie, etc.)
PRIDE was basically pro wrestling with a different rule set and at least more legit fights than worked fights.
PRIDE was almost immediately the biggest MMA promotion in the world, with UFC being a somewhat distant number two for a short while.
PRIDE had more better fighters than UFC. Bellator has some damn fine fighters, but UFC has way more.
PRIDE had cross-over appeal with the main stream (in Japan) and fighters would regularly appear on TV shows because they were stars (Bob Sapp being the best example of this). And even when PRIDE shut down they were still doing damn fine for themselves.
Bellator is now on their THIRD channel, probably the worst one yet. They don’t have nearly the amount of top fighters nor stars (Eddie Alvarez might be their most well-known fighter but no way is he a star). Bellator is straight up fighting/sports, and PRIDE went the more pro wrestling pizzaz thing. And Bellator is a distant third (taking into consideration if you think Strikeforce as a separate fighting league). If you see Strikeforce and UFC as one and the same because of the buy-out? An even MORE distant second.
I like Bellator (not Bjorn Rebney). Bellator had some damn fine events in the past, and just recently, and will continue having entertaining events in the future. But no WAY are they the new PRIDE. There is nothing connecting Bellator to PRIDE to make comparisons with.
It seems that Ben Askren among others seems to be in agreement with my other points, since you gave some mostly non relevent reasons why you disagree with my last comment, here are a few favorable comparisons…
Bellator is essentially zuffas only real competitor on tv.
Bellator gets the successful raw judo, wrestling, etc athletes and pits them against vets.
Bellator is known for tournaments.
And who’s to say that Bellator won’t add some more flash better fighters and maybe a rock band or some giant drums down the road. From humble origins etc…
“Bellator is the new pride.”
This is really, really funny.
Non relevant? You’re kidding right? My points are much more relevant than yours. Let’s take a look at your points….
Sure Bellator is Zuffa’s only real competition on tv. But so was/is Strikeforce, EliteXC back in the day, IFL back in the day to an extent, etc. Not too many people compared those companies to PRIDE.
About Bellator pitting judo players and wrestlers against vets…..uh…..every other company ever did that too. Including UFC. That is a COMPLETELY irrelevant point. And considering that pretty much all of these fighters started in smaller companies makes your point even less relevant.
Sure Bellator is known for their tournaments, like PRIDE. You know what other company used to be known for its tournaments back in the day? That’s right…….the UFC!! Again, irrelevant point.
And on Ben Askren “agreeing” with you on Bellator being the new PRIDE…….of course Ben Askren will say such things. He works for Bellator! Of course he will toe company line. I mean, can you really be that dense? That’s like guys like Kurt Angle and AJ Styles proclaiming in interviews that TNA wrestling will take over WWE. They know it’s not happening! They are toeing company line. It’s hardly a new phenomenon. Check out old ECW shows for guys proclaiming ECW will take over the wrestling world. Everyone (except for the biggest and densest of marks) knew it wasn’t going to happen.
Will Bellator do rock shows stuff down the line? Who knows? Personally I hope not, but this is merely my opinion. But you saying “from humble origins”…..yeah that is correct about Bellator, but not PRIDE. As I said before, PRIDE was huge right out of the gate because PRIDE was basically an off-shoot of the UWFi wrestling promotion that was big in the early nineties.
“Bellator is the new pride.”
…oh dear lord…
To go from reading Chuck’s comment to this made me laugh my ass of at work for some reason…
As a long-time MMA fan and an ardent supporter of Women’s MMA, I feel that we have to support Bellator and help build its’ viewer base. This is important to those who wish to see Zuffa presented with some real competition, but it is especially important to fans of Women’s MMA, especially after the UFC/SF merger.
Dana White has been consistently negative towards incorporating women’s bouts on his fight cards, and so we could very well see the end of women on SF after the contracts expire. I hope this is not the case, but if it is, Bellator will be the next (last?) best hope to get female fighters the exposure and promotion they deserve.
I think Bjorn Rebeny has an opportunity to “corner the market” on womens pro MMA if he starts to include the women’s bouts on the Saturday night shows. I haven’t missed an MTV2 Saturday night yet, and I intend to continue to “vote with my remote” as long as I can.
The fights are equally exciting, and MTV2 is free on my system, whereas I have never seen a SF fight on TV because I can’t justify the extra expense. Likewise the UFC PPV events, if they were not offered at my local sports bar for $5, I would happily wait until they came around as reruns on Spike.
Building awareness of the sport is what allowed it to break big after Spike (another free TV offering) started to let the masses catch it as they spun through the dial. Womens MMA will break just as big given some exposure to the masses, and at this point Bellator is our only chance of that, therefore I am currently Bellator’s biggest fan.
Support your local fight card, support Womens MMA and Girls Wrestling (the future of the sport!), and support Bellator as an alternative to the Zuffa offerings. After all, a monopoly in any industry is never good for the consumer!
@Sprawl_N_Brawl
I like where your heart is, but I don’t think you’re very realistic.
The only women’s sport that is even remotely popular (on a viewing level) in the US is tennis. Basketball, Softball, and even soccer (which we are routinely the best in the world at), get horrible ratings.
I like watching the girls go at it some times. They have just as much skill, and they go balls to the wall every fight. But, I am only one of a few. The only woman a large amount of people truly wanted to see fight ever was Gina Carano.
Women’s boxing couldn’t really gain any traction in the U.S. despite all the history of boxing AND having Muhammad Ali’s own flesh and blood and other talents/interesting fighters like Christy Martin, Lucia Rikjer and Mia St. John (a blueprint for the Gina Carano draw).
Women’s mma will not be anything more than a niche w/in mma at best in the U.S.
What I don’t get is why women’s MMA supporters are so fired up to have women’s fights incorporated into events featuring men.
If women’s MMA has so much potential and support, someone would start an American version of the old ‘Smackgirl’ promotion. Have a full card of the best women in the world throwing down and let them sink or swim on their own merits.
Why don’t any of the women’s MMA advocates appear interested in that?
Oh wait,
I know why …….
because it would sink like a stone on it’s merits, and they know it.
Even ignoring the demand side, where’s the supply? Even before the UFC hit it big, there were hordes of fighters toiling in small shows. Where are the hordes of toiling women?
Women want to fight about as much as the public wants to watch them fight.
Where are the toiling women? They are there! In the kickbox-aerobics classes in MMA gyms. They want to prove they are tough, and want to be treated as such, but by-GAWD won’t spar, won’t fight, won’t go to the gym more than twice a week (at best), won’t cut weight ( eatingfood with the Weight Watchers logo on the box don’t count), etc. But they will toil at the heavybag and the mitts (not the speedbag, for obvious reasons), and they will definitely get the huge tattoos and the Tapout clothing to fit the image.
I wish the above was a joke…
because it would sink like a stone on it’s merits, and they know it.
It is true. Its also true that any weight class of men promoted outside the UFC sank like a stone, even with Zuffa’s backing. Far, far more people care about women’s MMA than the 115lb or 123/125lb weight classes.
Where are all these people you speak of? In Neverland?
What flyweight MMA bout garnered more viewers anywhere in the world than did Cyborg/Carano? BJ Kojima/Mamoru 1, 2, or 3? I doubt any of those did. Nothing else is even close.
Hell, Cyborg/Carano was a more popular fight than most of the free WEC shows on Versus. No one cared about little guys until they were with the UFC.
One women’s fight? Your basing that point of view on one women’s fight? Where’s all the backlash from Cyborg not competing in almost a year? Where’s all the viewers who want to see Marloes Coenen fight again. Why was Sarah Kauffman (an exciting women’s fighter as their gets, and the second best 135lber in womens MMA) competing on a small show a week ago when she signed with Strikeforce?
The masses don’t care about women’s MMA. They care about Gina Carano, and they’ll care about the next pretty face that can beat girls up (Miesha Tate isn’t quite there).
I’m not saying that the little guys draw. What I am saying is that the women don’t draw either.
“Where are the toiling women? They are there! In the kickbox-aerobics classes in MMA gyms. They want to prove they are tough, and want to be treated as such, but by-GAWD won’t spar, won’t fight, won’t go to the gym more than twice a week (at best), won’t cut weight ( eatingfood with the Weight Watchers logo on the box don’t count), etc. But they will toil at the heavybag and the mitts (not the speedbag, for obvious reasons), and they will definitely get the huge tattoos and the Tapout clothing to fit the image.”
You have an Olympic Gold Medalist Ronda Rousey who just sliced through Top 10 W145 lbs. fighter Edianne Gomes (who if nothing else is tough as nails herself, and grew up a street urchin in Brazil) in under a minute. The best female boxer in the world in Holly Holms recently TKO\’d her opponent with leg kicks in her MMA debut. Olympic medalist wrestlers Sara McMann and Randi Miller are also getting into women\’s MMA. These are not fucking housewives in tae-bo classes or poseurs like Kim Couture. As for basing women\’s MMA on \”one fight,\” every single fight Gina Carano has been in has garnered more interest than most WEC shows. The recent one-night mini-tournament that Miesha Tate won did better than almost every other SF Challengers show. Carloes vs. Carmouche was the best match on the last major SF show. Regardless what you and others think of women\’s MMA it isn\’t going anywhere.
Chromium;
First things first….Rousey was a bronze medalist, not gold (to this day, the United States doesn’t have a gold medal in the Olympics for judo. Rousey is the only American medalist for judo). My comment was more of a joke, with a little truth in it. Gina Carana was a hell of a draw, but she really was a freakshow to an extent. Not her fault, promoters pushed her on her looks. She was a pretty good fighter. Holly Holm is an awesome boxer, and now I guess a good MMA fighter. Why exactly did she transition? Probably because there is ZERO interest in women’s boxing, and at least a little for women’s MMA.
About the mini-tournament that Tate won…..you mean that did better than most SF Challenger’s Series events? To my understanding the Challenger’s Series events have started to gain ratings steam after a while. Was that the start? I seriously don’t know. I can’t find anything ratings wise for that show.
Carmouche/Coenan was really fun, and Carmouche definitely came to fight. It wasn’t the draw of the event, but so what?
I do think there is much more hope for women’s MMA than women’s boxing. Hell, the women wrestlers in TNA have consistently drawn better ratings than the men for some years now. But in actuality, it is niche. I like women’s fighting, but most will never take it seriously. It’s a damn shame, but what can ya do?
Excuse me. I meant to say Rhonda Rousey is the only American FEMALE to win a medal at the Olympics for judo.
What did I say at the very start when it came to my thoughts on women’s MMA being destined to fail on its own merits?
“It is true.”
I’m not going to argue some stupid strawman BS. No one is going to watch MMA events of nothing but women. They also won’t watch MMA events of nothing but featherweights. Both merely complement until proven otherwise. Don’t be dense.
I don’t know if any of that was towards me, but:
“Far, far more people care about women’s MMA than the 115lb or 123/125lb weight classes.”
They’re the same thing. Both are divisions (or multiple divisions) of fighters that a lot of hardcore fans want to see online, but no casual fans really care about.
@Chuck
Okay, I was wrong about Rousey getting a gold medal, but she’s still one hell of a prospect, and the number of high-level female prospects seem to be growing fast. Also, if I didn’t get the joke it’s because my sarcasm detector isn’t working terribly well atm.
ippv. thats the business model to go for if you are bellator.
promote a show for 3 months, exclusive at bellator.com, 10 bucks gets you the biggest night in bellator history.
and you advertise that on mtv2 the next week you can see the highlights of the biggest bellator show in history.
going a traditionall ppv selling model cost alot of overhead and to many hands in the cookiejar to make it a big cash cow if youre going to sell a few tens of thousand buys.
but doin an ippv, where you have more flexability in terms of making a money split with the streaming company, bellator could sell an ippv at an attractive price point that you couldnt do on cable ppv, and come out making more in the end.
especially considering how many people see bellator clips on youtube than it seems on the regular bcasts.
And they’d be able to do nothing but watch their “pay” product end up on a number of free streaming sites because they don’t have the back office or resources to bash skulls to prevent it from happening.
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