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Strikeforce and their difficulties in booking their heavyweights
By Zach Arnold | November 16, 2010
In the last couple of days, we’ve seen media reports about both Fabricio Werdum and Alistair Overeem that make it seem unlikely that Scott Coker will be able to put together the big heavyweight fights that he thought he would be able to book by ‘the first quarter of 2011.’ Werdum says he wants to fight in Japan or Abu Dhabi next before fighting in Strikeforce again. By the time he returns to Strikeforce, it’s very conceivable that Cain Velasquez will have already fought Brock Lesnar and won the UFC Heavyweight title and have his first title match against Junior Dos Santos. Alistair Overeem appears to be scheduled to return to Strikeforce next May or June. That means a year in between fights for the promotion.
Where does this leave Strikeforce? They’re trying to negotiate a new deal with Fedor and M-1. Right now, it would seem likely that Fedor fights again for Strikeforce… but is in no hurry to do so. With the way things are declining in Japan, it’s hard to see him fighting there — even on NYE. I’m not putting it past K-1 to panic and pay a ton of money for Fedor to try to bolster what appears to be an extremely weak NYE card, but the odds are against this move happening right now.
Which leaves us with Josh Barnett. He’s going to want to fight. Does he end up fighting someone like a Shane Del Rosario? Bigfoot Silva? He’s going to want to fight and will (perhaps) be Scott Coker’s most reliable heavyweight, for what it’s worth. Of course, he has the taint on him right now and there’s the long-expected December hearing where both he and Chael Sonnen will be dealing with the appeals board that oversees the California State Athletic Commission rulings.
The situation regarding Werdum and Strikeforce is ridiculous. Yes, he has a contract that allows him to fight for other promoters not based in America. However, why is he not fighting in Strikeforce? There is zero momentum going for him on a national scale in the States because he’s been off television since beating Fedor. The promotion hasn’t marketed his big win nor have they really circled the wagons around him to make him their visual ‘ace’ in ad campaigns. It’s almost like Strikeforce doesn’t mind Werdum being out of the spotlight because people might forget that he beat Fedor…
It should also be noted that Scott Coker had talked and talked about a Middleweight tournament and how it could span two shows. Then he booked Jacare Souza vs. Tim Kennedy and the winner (Jacare) got their vacated 185-pound title. Quietly afterwards, the promotion announced that there wouldn’t be a Middleweight tournament in the end. Strikeforce managed to take the one division that they had real strength in (their Middleweights), promise something that sounded tenable or at least partially workable, and in the end produced nothing.
The promotion closes out the year with a show in Jackson, Mississippi this weekend and then their St. Louis event on December 4th. They need a much stronger campaign in 2011 and the ability to make more important fights more frequently. This is a performance business. No excuses.
Strikeforce 12/4 in St. Louis at the Scottrade Center
- Heavyweights: Antonio “Bigfoot” Silva vs. Valentijn Overeem
- Welterweights: Paul Daley vs. Scott Smith
- Heavyweights: Herschel Walker vs. Scott Carson
- Middleweights: Robbie Lawler vs. Matt Lindland
- Light Heavyweights: Dan Henderson vs. Renato Babalu
Topics: Media, MMA, StrikeForce, Zach Arnold | 30 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |
I hope no one cries for Jay Hieron anymore because he just signed an exclusive deal with Bellator…the guy must like living in contract hell or something.
Obviously the UFC wasn’t offering him the money he wanted (b/c they are not money marks) and/or he thought it was a safer bet to be a big fish in a small pond.
I was most surprised that he signed with Bellator. I was under the impression that guys like 45 Huddle knew what they were saying when they said that he would be in the UFC.
That’s kind of what I thought as well.
I’m surprised he signed with Bellator as well.
Not a good signing if you ask me. And I’m not saying that because I think it’s a big loss for the UFC. He would be a middle of the road guy in the UFC, nothing more.
I think this is a bad signing for Jay Hieron. He signed with Affliction and was in small contract hell when they went under. Then he signed with Strikeforce. They completely mistreated him and he was basically begging to get out.
After all of his contract issues, why would he sign with a company that all signs point to them being in financial trouble without a major TV deal at this point? Not to mention an owner that will take the fighters with him as he let’s his company crumble to the ground.
Even if the UFC was offering less money, signing with Bellator at this stage in the game was basically asking for future contract problems.
Consider who represents him (
Ken PaviaDavid Martin of the Martin Advisory Group) and it all makes sense in an unusual way.Maybe he knows something we don’t? Rebney has been saying that TV ‘won’t be a problem’ next year, right? Maybe Heiron has seen assurances of a good TV deal that will get him some exposure?
I don’t necessarily believe what I’m writing here…just playing Devil’s Advocate. Regardless of who represents him, there has to be some upside…it’s not like he’s the most visible guy on the roster (his last fight was a year ago, broadcast via an EA Sports website that crashed within seconds), and with Jim Wallhead, Ben Askren and Dan Hornbuckle kicking around, he’s hardly a sure thing for top dog.
Yes, Bellator could have a new TV deal. But would why would anybody take a chance on a known liar until the contract is completed?
[…] Strikeforce and their difficulties in booking heavyweights […]
The Heavyweight Division in Strikeforce is a complete mess. Nobody wants to fight each other and nobody takes Scott Coker seriously enough to actually care.
After everything is said and done, it is likely that the division will be on complete hold for 10+ months minimum with still no real solution in place.
As for Middleweight…. For as much as people were hyping up the SF Middleweight Division….. Who is next in line for a Middleweight Title Shot? If the division was so strong like many people claimed, then why is there absolutely no real contender present?
Welterweight is out of challengers for Nick Diaz because he has ducked Jay Hieron and Jason Miller.
Lightweight is boring as Melendez/Alvarez won’t happen. Thomson refuses to fight anybody who is “not worthy”.
Light Heavyweight actually has the most promise right now, but it is so overshadowed by the UFC’s division that it will be impossible to gain traction. Not to mention that their weird matchmaking has hurt the division as Feijao comes across as a weak champion.
You say 45 Huddle, and there is merit to it, but at the end of the day,all Strikeforce can and will do is put on fights. I think that they can successfully put on fights that do not play a role in the major scheme of things, but are fun to watch.
Everyone keeps talking about the gloom and doom surrounding the SF Heavyweight division, but that does not mean that the division is going away…it’s not going to cease to exist.
At this point, talking bad about the SF Heavyweight division is like beating a dead horse.
“Everyone keeps talking about the gloom and doom surrounding the SF Heavyweight division, but that does not mean that the division is going away…it’s not going to cease to exist. “
Don’t be so sure about that. They dropped the HW division in 2007 when Overeem spoiled their plans to have Buentello as champion. They didn’t bring it back until the opportunity to sign Fedor arose. Whose to say they won’t do it again?
Heavyweight talent is expensive, and if they can’t get those guys to give them quality matchups, they might choose to punt again.
I seriously find it hard to believe that Coker or anyone involved with Strikeforce was planning to make Buentello their signature heavyweight. Its not like Buentello/Overeem was a tough pick back then.
They have all the key players (Fedor, Werdum, Overeem, Barnett, Bigfoot) under contract and despite the media hysteria surrounding them, they all want to fight each other. “Punting” on the HW division at this point is not a realistic suggestion.
The funny thing is that they don’t want to fight each other. They are all trying to jockey for position and are refusing to fight each other because of it.
Not having one meaningful fight in your marque division for 10+ months is basically the same as going away….
From July 1st 2010 to December 31st 2010…. Strikeforce put on the same number of meaningful fights at Heavyweight as the UFC/WEC did at Flyweight. And the UFC/WEC doesn’t even use the Flyweight Division.
And it would be different if this was a one time thing. We have already seen Middleweight go from this “awesome” Middleweight Tournament to basically one title fight and no challengers at all available.
As a fan, we have a right to be extremely pissed. Strikeforce has fighters like Diaz, Melendez, and other under contract despite the fact that they don’t want to be there right now and the fans want to see them fight against guys in the UFC.
Nobody is winning right now. So it’s not about beating a dead horse. It’s about righting a wrong that is currently happening.
Wow!
I’ve always wondered if there was actually a real person who gave a sh!t about jay heiron?!
You know like Sasquatch or leprechauns.
And here he is our very own 45 huddle the whole time!
And you think you know somebody!
I don’t think 45 cared so much about Jay Hieron per se(e.g. I don’t think he’s a Jay Hieron fan). I think it was a two-pronged approach of:
(a) he was a fighter people felt bad for because he’s been legitimately f’d over in both Affliction and Strikeforce on a number of fights (untelevised, opponents pulled out, Diaz avoiding him/Coker refusing to book the fight) and spent over a year on the shelf in the prime of his career – no fan likes that; and
(b) it gives 45 something to bitch about re. Coker/SF/Diaz and their protecting of certain fighters/poor treatment of certain fighters.
I could be wrong, so 45 please jump in here and correct me if I missed the boat, but I think that’s more the case than “45 gives a shit about Jay Hieron.”
UFC 122 did an average of 2.2 million. That is definately higher than I thought it would be.
I predicted 1.5 Million.
That is a huge number for a show like this.
UFC is DEAD!!
People who say the “UFC is DEAD” are about as intelligent or most likely even less intelligent than the “boxing is dead” crowd.
I think there’s legitimate gripes about burning out the fans who buy/used to buy EVERY card (boxing did this to their fans in the early ’00s)…but they’re about as far from dying as any sport out there. If anything I think the worst complaint I have is that they are hurting the “brand” of their numbered shows by putting on piss-poor cards like 122 (free or not). Make it a Fight Night/Fight for the Troops/UFC of Versus/Saturday Smackdown or whatever but don’t devalue the numbered cards! I understand it’s probably important from an overseas marketing perspective, but I’m not sure it’s worth it in the long run.
Wow…that’s a prett good number based on the card they had going, especially since word that the co-main most likely got out way before people started watching the tape delay. Too bad the people that watched weren’t rewarded for their viewership loyalty, as I’ve heard nothing but bitching about the card. I ff’d through most of the fights and watched Siver and Nate-Okami on Sunday aft…probably didn’t help that I’d been biased by all the on-line stink people were raising.
People must have all stayed in Saturday night given that Pacman and Margacheato pulled ~1.5 mill and the UFC pulled 2.2 m.
Not that I doubt the number, but where did you hear the buy rate for Pac-Marg? Damn, Manny at this point could fight just about anyone on Earth and draw millions of eyeballs..
http://www.badlefthook.com/2010/11/15/1814866/early-estimates-have-pacquiao-margarito-at-1-4-million-ppv-buys
I heart BLH.
Random question: How do you guys think a superfight with Manny/Aldo would do with a hybrid Kickboxing/MMA angle?
@edub
Like a Strikebox/Titans mma style format? E.g. takedowns = stand-ups, 4 oz. gloves w/ 8 points of striking?
I think it would do ridiculous business, it will never ever happen – there’s no way Bob Arum let Pacman do anything other than box. If it was striking only, even with leg kicks I think Manny would absolutely work him (his footwork, power, speed, lateral movement and ability to land power shots while moving laterally is out of this world) but if you incorporate takedowns and/or extended clinch striking then I think there’s a pretty big chance Aldo rolls him.
Yea that’s the sort of thing I was talking about, but after reading your comment a straight Kickboxing match would probably be better. With leg kicks involved I don’t think you could count Aldo out even with the otherworldly skills of the Pacman. Especially if they are landing and it gets out of the first.
I just think with the competitive spirit that Manny has he would be all for it. And with Zuffa and Top Rank being friendly now it would actually be a possiblity. But you’re right it would never happen.
Man just thinking about it gives me goosebumps though. I think I would rather watch that fight than any other in either sport.
“Which leaves us with Josh Barnett. He’s going to want to fight.”
Uh huh, if by “fight” you mean wrastlin.
“Does he end up fighting someone like a Shane Del Rosario? Bigfoot Silva?”
If history is any indication barnett would prefer to showcase and entertain his fans against a Hershel Walker or maybe a KJ Noons.
Is that the official card for 12/4?
THats looking pretty good.
Better then the rest of this upcoming UFC except for the HL.
And the best thing about it IMO is that everyone will be able to stop pissy fiting about overeem next year as he’ll technically become the non issue that he already really is before New Years.
😉
It’s a stupid thing to do, but I’m gonna make a prediction anyway. Something tells me Fedor will sign with Strikeforce around the time of Werdum’s next (non-Strikeforce) fight, which he’ll win against an inferior opponent. Then Fedor and Werdum will have a rematch. Not til then will Overeem defend his title, against the winner of Werdum-Fedor.
Speculation aside, the HW matches I’d make now, if I were Coker, are Barnett vs the winner of Silva-Overeem, and Rogers vs Del Rosario.
smoogy said:
Other than the last two, the other three names seem clear in their heart to want to fight elsewhere besides Strikeforce. That’s the big downside to non-exclusive contracts — if a fighter doesn’t believe in what you are doing or doesn’t believe that you provide them with the biggest platform and biggest stage to promote themselves and make the most money, then they really just aren’t that into you.
It is unquestionably a double edged sword. You can also rather easily point out that Werdum, Fedor, and Overeem would have likely never signed with Strikeforce now or in the past were they to be limited to solely competing in Strikeforce events.
Me? I’m not holding my breath expecting them to do anything right now, much as I’d like them to. If they do, great. It’ll be on Showtime and I’ll try to watch it. If not, hopefully they give me something that isn’t total crap as an alternative. The next card coming up only has a couple fights that interest me largely out of nostalgia – if you don’t feel that about the bouts, man, its really a lame event.
I neither know nor care about Strikeforce’s hw title picture anymore. Fedor is entirely uninterested, Overeem makes more money kickboxing, and Werdum is trying to get paid after scoring the biggest upset in mma history. Wake me up when something happens.