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Dave Meltzer: People who want Strikeforce to work with Bellator are naive about the business

By Zach Arnold | November 1, 2010

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From the Observer radio show late last night:

“Bjorn Rebney’s idea is to put together a card where you have champions vs. champions, the Bellator champions against the Strikeforce champions in all the weight classes and so he has, um… he said he’s been texting Scott Coker and Scott Coker has not gotten back to him and then Scott Coker was on Sherdog radio saying he never got any of these texts and then [Bellator’s] PR department actually showed that, in fact, that he had sent the texts. I don’t know if Scott Coker got ’em or not but I know Scott Coker, as of today, said that it’s absolutely not viable [to make] these matches and from his standpoint, you know, it would be stupid to do them, you know…

Champion vs. Champion, what if your guys lose? You’re the stronger promotion, what’s the upside to that? I mean, granted, you know, like I say Eddie Alvarez and Gilbert Melendez could be a fantastic fight but it’s not, you know… There’s just no upside for Strikeforce for that fight, so that’s kind of where that stands right now and, you know, it puts, you know it’s kind of like the deal where people were clamoring for Dana White to co-promote and bring Fedor into UFC and, you know, you and I were both like, this is ridiculous, but people are very naive about the business of this business and this is the same thing. It’s like, you know, Coker’s looking bad to some people because they’re naive about the business of the business, ‘like we could see these great fights!’ that quite frankly, you know, it’s not like anyone’s clamoring for these fights in the real world. Not that anyone’s clamoring for any fights from Strikeforce in the real world but the point is that, you know, what if the Bellator guys win? Then you’ve got paper champions in Strikeforce, you know, you have your guys lose on your own, it’s absolutely ridiculous business-wise to do this.

But, you know, again, people really don’t understand that aspect of business and, you know, they’re going, ‘Oh, he’s a pussy, he won’t let his guys fight,’ so that’s kind of like where that’s at right now.”

Topics: Bellator, Media, MMA, StrikeForce, Zach Arnold | 50 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |

50 Responses to “Dave Meltzer: People who want Strikeforce to work with Bellator are naive about the business”

  1. Johny says:

    The real danger is that these three fights come off on a PPV that does enough buys to scare the shit out of Dana White.

    • fd says:

      A sudden meteor strike obliterating Zuffa’s Vegas offices would be more of a “real danger” than this PPV doing enough buys to worry Dana even slightly, because the former has more chance of actually happening than the latter.

      • Johny says:

        Brock just lost, and all the other UFC guys are losing or retiring. If other orgs get even that much more ambitious, Zuffa will feel a big pinch.

        • Chromium says:

          Brock on top or not, the UFC is still bigger than all other organizations combined.

          They have at least as much top talent as the rest of the MMA world combined, and far more star power, brand recognition and drawing power.

          Furthermore StrikeForce and Bellator have far bigger problems than the UFC. Bellator is supposedly losing money hand-over-fist, and may not see 2012, and while StrikeForce is making something of a profit, they can’t even get their top stars to fight each other.

          The UFC will be the dominant promotion for quite a while.

  2. What I get out of this:

    1) Meltzer has never heard of promoters in “cross-promotional fights” getting options on X of fights before, in spite of it being common practice in boxing. That’s only a business that Rebney comes from.

    2) Rebney doing this is to create some sort of real world buzz for the fight, thus forcing Showtime to go to Strikeforce and demand they put it on. Its not as if Showtime has ever put two or three or five promoters at a table before and told them to put together a series of fights before, have they? Oh, wait.

    This gets back to what I’ve said before – People want to look smarter than the sport.

    • 45 Huddle says:

      You aren’t as smart as you think you are. Showtime has zero incentive to book this.

      1) In boxing, there are a lot of promoters so they have no choice but to work with many of them to put on fights. This is not the case in MMA

      2) Strikeforce and Bellator are competing for the same talent. If Showtime also uses Bellator, then they are helping out a competitor to their already established MMA. So all they would be doing is help raise the price of their fighters pay. It’s much easier for them to let Bellator fail and let SF get the fighters on the cheap.

      3) Bellator doesn’t bring in one more fan then Strikeforce. People who watch Bellator also watch Strikeforce. With boxing each fighter might bring in their own fan base. This is not the case here.

      Nice try but you are just coming off as a boxing snob who doesn’t understand MMA….

      • You’re right. I don’t understand many of the people who watch MMA. Instead of the media getting behind the potential fight and demanding it from the network – who, might I add, is capable of delivering it – instead people prefer to create power fantasies.

        At this level of the sport, the talent is so sprayed out that cross promotion is a necessity to continue generating interesting bouts. Demanding that every B league try to become its own independent fiefdom is unrealistic and requires a complete denial about the actual structure of the sport. Look at your own post – “waiting for Bellator to fail and pick up their fighters on the cheap”. Like the UFC isn’t going to have a significant level of interest in these guys and sign anyone that isn’t crap. If they’re gonna do the fight, they need to do it now before Alvarez’s contract runs out and they’re forced to run Melendez/Thomson III, IV, and V.

        • 45 Huddle says:

          Or perhaps the people who watch MMA are finally starting to smarten up. They realize that the fewer organizations we have, the better match-ups we will see in the future.

          If Bellator stays around, is keeps the sport more fractioned. If Bellator goes away, then their talent will mostly go to the UFC or Strikeforce, allowing more match-ups to happen.

          There is no incentive for the fans or the media to see Bellator around in 2011.

          Alvarez is under a championship clause. So waiting for a contract to run out is pointless. All of the Bellator champions are under champions clauses.

          Lastly, there is no guarantee that the UFC will pick up the Bellator fighters if that organization goes under. They are currently sueing the company.

        • edub says:

          “They realize that the fewer organizations we have, the better match-ups we will see in the future.”

          I think this has been both of our rallying call for sometime now. The less promotions the better.

          Why should SF want to co-promote with Bellator for one fighter? Because they don’t need Lombard, and they definately don’t need Askren, or Warren at this point. ALvarez vs. Melendez would be a great fight, but so would Melendez vs. Thomson 3. So would Alvarez vs. anyone in the UFC.

          ALvarez is a great fighter, but IMO he is not even top 5 in the LW division. If the overall landscape of MMA has to become more like boxing where co-promotion is concerned to appease one fighter than I say let him sit. Eddie is the one who signed on with Bellator for the big paydays while still fighting below average opposition. He knew what he was getting into.

        • The people who watch MMA watch the UFC and don’t care about the other promotions. Remember? That’s the whole talking point oft repeated.

          No incentive for the fans or media to see Bellator around? What does that have to do with making Alvarez/Melendez?

          As for all the Bellator champions being under champions clauses, I seriously doubt Alvarez has a standard Bellator contract. I’d bet dollars to cents that he isn’t alone in that either.

          There’s no guarantee anyone would pick up the Bellator fighters if they went under, but does anyone really believe they wouldn’t have interest in a bunch of their talents?

        • Strikeforce doesn’t “need” Alvarez in the same way that the UFC technically doesn’t “need” Jake Shields. But yet they pursued him because the UFC needs more legitimate opponents for GSP. Alvarez is the unquestioned best competition for Melendez should he continue to be outside the UFC, which he will be. And he’s doing so with a promoter that openly admits to wanting to copromote and with an opponent who’s promoter wants to make the fight. What do internet fans do? “Oh, that might be a promotional issue! I don’t want that fight! I want Scott Coker to stand up for himself!” LOL

    • Chromium says:

      Alan Conceicao: I’m sure StrikeForce would love to sign Eddie Alvarez to an exclusive contract like the UFC did with Shields. That’s not what’s being discussed.

      • You have no idea precisely what is being offered to Strikeforce because you’re taking Rebney at face value. I said it over two years ago and I’ll say it again – You’re a fool to do that. Not that anyone listened to me at that point and they still won’t now.

        The fight can happen so long as Strikeforce and Showtime get options on Alvarez. That can happen. They could shut Alvarez out of fighting on Bellator cards for the next three years depending on how long they want the options for. And hell, Rebney might very well be OK with that. Has it ever crossed your mind that maybe Bjorn Rebney can’t afford Alvarez by himself anymore?

  3. fd says:

    “Champion vs. Champion, what if your guys lose? You’re the stronger promotion, what’s the upside to that? I mean, granted, you know, like I say Eddie Alvarez and Gilbert Melendez could be a fantastic fight but it’s not, you know… There’s just no upside for Strikeforce for that fight”

    You could say exactly the same thing about Melendez/Aoki, and not only did Coker already put that fight together but he’s trying to put together a rematch.

    • 45 Huddle says:

      But DREAM wasn’t trying to steal his spot on Showtime. Bellator is. Huge difference.

      Scott Coker is being smart here. He just doesn’t know how to approach it in the media properly.

      • No one has any idea if Bellator is trying to steal their spot or not, or if Showtime has any interest in giving it to them. You just leaped off the logic cliff.

        • 45 Huddle says:

          Bellator has no TV contract worth the cost of the paper it was signed on. Of course they would want to get a television deal that gave them exposure and money.

          There is absolutely no gap in logic to assume anything like this. Strikeforce has a TV contract that will be up in a year. Bellator doesn’t have a good TV contract. There are only so many TV stations willing to pay money for MMA.

          To try and even deny Bellator wouldn’t want this is grasping at straws.

        • If Bellator has a TV deal for the next 3 seasons, as claimed, they may not be able to run live events on another network. Nor is there any indication that Showtime specifically wants to do business with them. Pointing out that Strikeforce was acquainted with Showtime through EXC is not proof nor evidence that Strikeforce’s TV deal would be endangered.

      • fd says:

        I’m not saying that doing the Alvarez/Melendez fight would be good business for Strikeforce, because it clearly wouldn’t. I’m just saying that Coker has done pretty much exactly this kind of bad business decision relatively recently so it’s odd to see it cited as the major reason he’s not doing this one, particularly since his alternative is a repeat of the previous one.

    • Steve4192 says:

      The difference between Melendez-Aoki and Melendez-Alvarez is that Aoki’s promoter has no presence whatsoever in Strikeforce’s home market. There is no danger of DREAM stealing market share from Strikeforce. Bellator is a whole different ball of wax.

  4. Nepal says:

    A show like this would do more to enhance the 6 main fighter’s stature than it would do for either promotion. The end game for all 6 of these fighters is the UFC anyway. This would be a great exposure vehicle for them. All the hardcores would watch and if done properly they’d get additional casual eyeballs. Coker really only cares about Strikeforce, much more so than the individual fighters, who show little loyalty anyway. Not sure how this is a good long term play for Coker. Possible short term revenue on a good PPV (questionable).

  5. MK says:

    I’m just glad that Dana set the standard and didn’t waiver and give in to co-promote Pride/UFC, Fedor etc mega fights…thank god we dodged that bullet, the sport is so much better for it.

    It’s silly to think that anyone really cares about the Strikeforce/Bellator brands. Only like 10% of the people who watch the UFC even know that they exist and you would assume that those same people would want co-promotions (aside from the pro-wrestling experts). Nobody will care who wins whatever belt when the only brand/belt that will sell is the UFC version. How about just selling the Alvarez-Melendez fight as two of the best lightweights in their prime going at it? That seems like a better plan than holding on to paper belts then mean nothing.

    • Jonathan Snowden says:

      “I’m just glad that Dana set the standard and didn’t waiver and give in to co-promote Pride/UFC”

      Is this a serious comment?

      • MK says:

        Yes, one or two co-promotions don’t make up for the dozens of fights we didn’t get to see. The UFC wasn’t the only guilty party but they have a major role.

      • Jason Harris says:

        Don’t you have your own website to troll? This comment added nothing to the discussion.

        • The point that he made is that the UFC made numerous attempts at co-operation and openly professed that they wished to copromote early on. Do you need examples? I can toss out numerous ones.

        • Isaiah says:

          It’s just weird how MMA fans are basically the only consumers of any kind who care more about how the businesses do financially than they do about their own interests.

          “Man, I love these Round Table pizzas. I’m so glad that they aren’t giving out coupons like Domino’s does because that would devalue the brand and cut into their profits.”

          “Good news, honey! Our cell phone plan no longer includes free data! We need the data so we’ll get to pay extra, which will add to their revenue. Let’s celebrate this joyous occasion!”

        • Steve4192 says:

          “It’s just weird how MMA fans are basically the only consumers of any kind who care more about how the businesses do financially than they do about their own interests.”

          That is not even remotely true.

          Stick & ball sports fans do the exact same thing. NFL fans worry about the cap hit of signing an aging veteran. NBA fans obsess over cap exceptions and max salaries. MLB fans bemoan the massive financial advantages of large market teams. Why should MMA fans be any different?

        • Isaiah says:

          Your examples are irrelevant. Fans of one team bemoaning an unfair advantage that other teams have over their team isn’t rooting against their interest. It’s rooting for their interest. Fans of sports teams want their teams to win. What you don’t see (a more apt example) is fans who call for the owners of their MLB team to cut payroll to the point that the owner has a guaranteed profit because of revenue sharing.

        • If other sports fans looked through the prism that internet MMA fans view their sports by, the Clippers and KC Royals would be some of the best run and operated teams in all of major league sport.

  6. Robert Poole says:

    I’m probably sounding like a UFC mark here (even though I am not and like all MMA fairly equally) but it would take the UFC promotional machine at least 3-4 PPVs to sell Melendez as a top of the card draw. Coker if anything has proven he doesn’t know how to promote events and build up stars and Alvarez is about 100 times more obscure to casual fans than even Melendez.

    Even if they were to do some sort of deal to get this fight together it could never headline a “PPV” (not that SF could pull off a successful PPV at this point), CBS Card and I’d be dubious to say this headlines one of their quarterly Showtime shows. Midcard, sure, headline, no.

    And ultimately if there is supposed to be some sort of cross promotional “dream match”, shouldn’t it be good enough to headline a show?


    • MK says:

      With a little hype it would do good TV numbers/subscriptions and Showtime can afford it. Bellator seems willing to go to Showtime so this shouldn’t even be an issue since Coker has no leverage. Only reason it’s not happening is because Showtime doesn’t know how to promote MMA to its full capability.

      • 45 Huddle says:

        Bellator vs. Strikeforce would not increase Showtime subscriptions at all.

        Strikeforce’s fanbase is larger then Bellator’s. And I don’t think Bellator brings any new fans that aren’t already Strikeforce fans.

        It might do decent ratings…. For Showtime.

      • Robert Poole says:

        I don’t see this fight increasing the interest in a SF show one iota. And that’s no knock on either fighter, it’s just that neither have much name value outside of the incredibly small loyal MMA fanbases that just happen to watch these groups. SF has limited visibility with the casual audience, Bellator has almost zilch. They’re not household names even for most MMA fans and that means this fight won’t draw viewers no matter where they air it.

        Showtime won’t get a bump in ratings. To most people this is just “Not good enough for UFC” fighter A vs. “Not good enough for UFC” fighter B. Even if they’re both very good fighters, that will be the mainstream perception of this fight by anyone not already invested in these two promotions/fighters.

        • MK says:

          It’s not like Melendez & Alvarez are demanding huge salaries and this fight would generate more buzz then a Henderson-Babalu or King Mo-Cavalcante match-ups.

        • Robert Poole says:

          MK –

          Buzz to whom?

          Do you think the casual fan really knows Eddie Alvarez better than Calvacante? I don’t think casual fans know either of them. I would bet more of them know Babalu then Alvarez or maybe even Melendez for that matter.

          It would generate buzz for the hardcores only.. and they were likely to be the ones watching the show either way.

    • MK says:

      Hardcore fans can create some buzz for the casuals if the match is worth getting excited over. Again, it won’t break the bank, Showtime could force it and does anyone really care about the actual Strikeforce/Bellator titles? Only hardcore fans are even aware of them and you would think that they would support this match. Why all this negativity for a very nice match up?…ill tell you why -puts on paranoia cap-, people, including hardcore ‘UFC’ fans don’t want to see any major fights outside ZUFFAs control because it might (but won’t) shake up the landscape.

      • MK says:

        Sorry, I don’t know how to edit. Just wanted to add that I wasn’t talking about you Poole when describing those people. But I think I have a point. It’s all about protecting the integrity of the brand and hoping that under the steady hand of Dana it takes over the world or something. Case in point the jubilant reaction to Fedor losing, not so much because Werdum beat him but because they could (somehow)crown an inactive Brock as the #1. I also see that they are also adamant that Fedor does not deserve a immediate rematch, maybe because in the back of their minds they know that he can reclaim the #1 status.

        As for co-promotion, Martinez-Willaims 2, Bradley-Alexander sound very good to me, and I couldn’t care less about the promoters involved.

  7. David M says:

    I couldn’t pick Eddie Alvarez out of a police lineup, and I consider myself a fairly hardcore fan.

    I don’t think there is any “clamoring” to see Alvarez vs Melendez, but I would definitely watch it (if I had Showtime). Alvarez did what Gray Maynard and Kenny Florian were not good enough to do, that being stopping Roger Huerta. Alvarez definitely belongs in the discussion for best 155er in the world. This would be a fight that would create more non-UFC buzz than any fight out there excluding fights containing Fedor.

    The idea that multiple promotions is bad for mma fans is idiotic at best, and at worst makes me think that 45 Huddle works for Zuffa.

    The more smaller promoters out there, the more exposure mma gets, and the more fighters there are who get paychecks. Anyone who is a fan of this sport and doesn’t want more fighters to get paid is probably evil. Further, Bellator has a tv deal, Strikeforce has a tv deal, and the UFC has a tv deal. How could a monopoly conceivably be good for anyone? How could having less mma on tv be good for fans? My head hurts from this idiocy.

    • edub says:

      See this is just a terrible, terrible argument. The thought that there will be less opportunity for fighters to get paid, that their will be less interesting fights, and there will be less MMA period is like sticking your head in the sand. Sure it makes somewhat sense, but so does boxing’s model. They have had co-promotion in boxing sense it’s start, and with today’s profit charged atmosphere we see less than half of the fights we could see if all were under the same promotion. If the trend is started it will kill MMA’s popularity in the states, and thats why it makes no sense. Imagine the top talent in the world all being divided between 3 or 4 promotions. What type of matchups do you think we would regualry see then?

      • David M says:

        45dub: You just said my argument makes sense, but then said that because boxing’s model doesn’t work (maybe not for the fans, but there are a lot more boxers getting paid than mma fighters getting paid, and getting a bigger slice of ppv revenues, mostly because they aren’t forced to fight in a quasi-monopoly system), that mma is doomed if there is co-promotion. Besides the obvious non-sequitur that is saying that because boxing doesn’t sell as many ppvs as mma, that mma’s popularity will die if there are co-promotional fights, I would also take issue with something else you said, namely the “doomsday” scenario in which all the top talent is divided amongst 3 or 4 promotions. The horror!

        Besides the fact that the UFC is so far and away the king of mma that there is really no conceivable way that the top talent in the world could be divided equally between 3-4 orgs (and besides the fact that it was better for mma fans when there was a viable number 2 promotion–Pride), we are talking about the #2 and #3 organizations in this country remaining merely viable, which you and people of your ilk somehow think is bad. Hoping mma promotions fail is basically hoping that less fighters are able to continue fighting; I don’t know how you can justify to yourself a desire that dozens of fighters who would be fighting in Bellator and Strikeforce end up unemployed; there aren’t enough jobs in the UFC to take on all the quality fighters in these other promotions, but your morals are staunch (sarcasm) in your opposition to multiple promotions being viable.

        I for one would be more inclined to watch Strikeforce or Bellator if they had more stars in their promotions; I know this shocks your WWF-inspired sensibilities that dictate that only 1 organization should have all the stars, but I like the idea that in a free market, competition is actually a benefit to the consumers.

        UFC fan bois are the only people on Earth who claim to be fans of the sport but actively root against the well-being of the fighters, against all forms of promotional competition, and against the enlargement of the sport. Kudos to you sir.

        • edub says:

          Alan M or whichever your trying to copy off of today:

          None of your comments relate to why I favor one single promotion. Why do you think it’s a good thing when fighters make a good amount of money taking on garbage competition. Why is it a good thing Eddie Alvarez makes $175,000 for beating up Toby Imada? Explain it. Explain to me why it is good for anyone else besides Eddie himself when a guy who is top 5 or 6 (depending on rankings) beats up on an inferior opponent. It doesn’t help the sport. It doesn’t do anything for the fans. It doesn’t do anything besides load that particular fighters pocket with a boatload of money for fighting less than stellar competition.

          WWF-inspired? You fuckin idiot. Try looking at the entire American sports landscape if you want to find out where my ideal situation comes from. If you wanna claim that it’s impossible for them to operate like an NFL or a NBA than that is a different discussion.

          I’m not claiming that there shouldn’t be multiple fight promotions in the world. Feeder leagues are a must for the development of fighters. The problem comes when a fighter is qualified to fight the best in the world, and he doesn’t get that opportunity because of the promotion that he is in. That to me is a lot more important than guys who are 15-13 who will never even achieve journeymen status having a place to fight.

          “maybe not for the fans, but there are a lot more boxers getting paid than mma fighters getting paid, and getting a bigger slice of ppv revenues, mostly because they aren’t forced to fight in a quasi-monopoly system),”

          Good for you, you made my point. Who cares if boxers are making millions of dollars to fight scrubs? Because obviously the fans perspective that top boxers rarely face top competition compared to mixed martial artists is wrong. If co-promotion starts on a high level in MMA it will only lead to greedy promoters and fighters demanding more money for certain fights, take on less competitive “title” matches, and start the ever so popular trend of top level cards where the undercard is filled with non-competitive beatdowns and meaningless fodder.

          The UFC is expanding daily. We can’t know how many “elite” fighters they will be able to have on contract in the upcoming years. If they get a network deal on top of the shows on PPV, Spike, versus,… well that’ll be even more shows and even more opportunites for headliners to make money.

          I look at the sport from a fan’s perspective. Because that’s what I am. I’m not a fighter, maybe you are (although I highly doubt it). I want the best to fight the best, and the way I see that being achieved year in year out is one single promotion or a league if you will. It will get rid of some lesser fighters. It will probably in the end lead to fighters getting less amounts of money than boxers. But that really doesn’t matter to me in the grand scheme of things.

          The UFC is somewhat unfair in how it pays it’s fighters. They use their power in evil ways sometimes. However thats life. They are the one promotion with all the leverage so they will be the only ones with the possibility of having ALL top tier talent in the near future. It’s not about what’s morally right. It’s about what’s reality. The UFC becoming the end all be all of fighting is what’s best for the sport from a FAN’S pov. That’s just the way it is.

          I don’t think I talked shit as much as you did so to even it out umm…. Your Mothers a stupid whore. There that’s about even.

        • david m says:

          I think it is a good thing when more fighters get paid; why would I be against Eddie Alvarez seeing 6 figures? Dude is literally putting his life on the line and I am happy to see him get compensated. Why are you such a hater? It is embarrassing for top 5 fighters in the world to be getting really low purses, and you are complaining that this guy might actually have a nest egg when he is done getting his brains beaten in for a career! Unbelievable.

          Further, this was not even a part of our discussion; you were bemoaning the existence of multiple mma promotions, and now your argument is that Eddie Alvarez gets paid too much (SHOCKS THE CONSCIENCE!). You literally just invented an argument out of thin air. Well done, yet again. Quite the red herring.

          In re: NFL/NBA/MLB, those are not organizations where the lion’s share of earnings comes from PPV. If you are not intelligent enough to understand the differences, there is no need to go back and forth any more. Do you understand that there are literally thousands of people in the NFL each year who get 6 or 7 figures? Do you realize that every player in the NBA and MLB have guaranteed contracts, the overwhelming majority of which are worth 7 figures? How can you conceivably compare the structures between the sports?

          The UFC is unscripted WWF; real fights, real fighters, but the promotion controls everything–they control who fights whom, they control the fighters, and they have a monopoly on the market. Dana White likes idiot fans (not to name names) who just cheer for the violence instead of individual fighters, who might show some independence and demand to be treated like world-class athletes. As much as I dislike Fitch and Koscheck, I kind of hope they both win title belts and then demand to renegotiate their contracts. The UFC is just a mafia-esque organization that tries to muscle everyone else out of the mma game. When Kos and Fitch refused to sign over their likenesses for the UFC games, Dana threatened to cut them and everyone who ever came out of AKA; how can it be good for the sport when the only viable promotion can ban entire gyms? Is that the kind of sport you want to see? Where fighters are literally slaves and cannot do anything that angers the UFC or their entire gyms will be blackballed?

          Do you think that if a NBA player refused to be in a videogame, that David Stern would ban everyone from that player’s university from ever playing in the league?

          “I’m not claiming that there shouldn’t be multiple fight promotions in the world. Feeder leagues are a must for the development of fighters. The problem comes when a fighter is qualified to fight the best in the world, and he doesn’t get that opportunity because of the promotion that he is in. That to me is a lot more important than guys who are 15-13 who will never even achieve journeymen status having a place to fight.”

          Your poor conscience; it must be hard to sleep at night knowing there are fighters in Bellator who don’t get the chance to fight the very best fighters in the world and have to settle for reasonably good salaries instead of being unemployed fighters (in the case that they wouldn’t be good enough to make it the one viable promotion that you would want to have left).

          I have no idea how you reconcile in your head this sympathy for fighters who do not get to fight the absolute best on one hand, and on the other hand your desire to see Bellator and Strikeforce fold up. Uncanny.

          This is my favorite line of your post: “If co-promotion starts on a high level in MMA it will only lead to greedy promoters and fighters demanding more money for certain fights, take on less competitive “title” matches”

          I wonder where you get the gall to call fighters greedy for wanting to get big paydays for putting their very lives on the line. You live in this fucking bubble where Dana White is allowed to be greedy and take a much higher cut of the pie than boxing promoters do, but if another mma promoter wants a similar cut, or if an mma fighter wants to get paid well, he is greedy. You are totally gone dude.

          In re: the UFC monopoly being best for the fans, again, you are wrong. What is best for consumers is having options. Would you think it was best if there were only 1 line of cars on the market? This requires just a very small amount of thought.

          I am not of the opinion that Strikeforce is ever going to get really big and rival the UFC, but if they did, and could present a viable alternative (which they already do, occasionally), that would force the UFC to up its game. You are of the opinion that the UFC will naturally do what is better for fans, when in reality they are motivated to do what is best for themselves–this is why you see so many TUF fighters on UFC ppvs.

          If there were a full-on monopoly, the UFC would be even more brutal towards fighters. I know you don’t care because you are all realpolitik about it, but you don’t seem to realize that a promoter who wants to maximize profits is also likely to put on a shittier product knowing that his audience has nowhere else to turn.

          I don’t know if you should be more embarrassed for not knowing the difference between your and you’re or for insulting someone’s mother, but either way, you come off like a 13 year old.

        • 45 Huddle says:

          “In re: the UFC monopoly being best for the fans, again, you are wrong. What is best for consumers is having options. Would you think it was best if there were only 1 line of cars on the market? This requires just a very small amount of thought.”

          The only problem with your opinion on this is that fans (outside of a very picky and very small internet fanbase) have universally said they prefer the UFC’s model. They have done so with their wallets and eyeballs.

          If tomorrow the UFC is standing and Strikeforce, Bellator, and DREAM go out of business…. Then a union would be a good thing for fighters. But that doesn’t mean I would want to see fragmentation with the fighters.

        • Edub: I was one of the most vocal people in believing that I wanted the UFC to dominate the sport at all levels. To this day, I still am. You know what? They are not pursuing that. And ultimately, whether or not they are ever going to pursue that has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on if I want to see Alvarez/Melendez.

          As a fan, its the fight I want to see outside the UFC. Period. I know the promoters can get to the table and make it happen, and all these stupid ass responses about DA BIZ are a smokescreen for very insecure people to make themselves look smart. In no other sport would this sort of talk make sense or be accepted. It is the equivalent of Marlins fans cheering as their World Series teams were dismantled to ensure the owner made lots of money.

        • edub says:

          No Alan my comment was meant to show that David M takes up whoever’s argument out of the people I mentioned, and developes his opinion from those posts. His posts usually mirror (especially when someone disagrees with 45) things that have already been brought up.

          I’m not saying I agree or disagree that it would be a great fight. I think it would provide a high ranking for the fighter who wins, and some exposure.

          My thoughts is just that it’s a last ditch effort fot Bjorn to save his organization. Also I’ve been wondering about your take on the fight and Bellator exclusively for a while because of the strong statements you have made about Bjorn in terms of his boxing years in the past…

        • My perspective is that Rebney is not financially in as nice a position as he claims to be in, and that he’s looking to offload Alvarez’s contract (and maybe a couple other guys) while getting a cut of the action and maybe even the possibility of having an option for a fight or two a year. What’s in it for Strikeforce is that they get a ready built top contender that would offer some internet buzz and might garner bigger ratings that Diaz/Noons 46 or whatever without needing to compete with the UFC over salary.

          Alvarez adds a lot of spice to a dead tired 155lb division that’s made up of mostly aged names with injury problems and extensive abscences – Shaolin, JZ, Thomson, Noons – a single seemingly dominating champion (Melendez), and then a single mildly interesting prospect who is undefeated only because of a crappy judges decision (Beerbohm). Oh, and that guy Spiritwolf just fought. That guy is a total hype job. Anyone advocating title shots to Beerbohm or whoever that guy is someone who doesn’t actually watch MMA.

          Additionally: if I had to bet money, Bellator is making sure to pay guys on time only if they are guys they give a crap about keeping. Anyone they don’t care about retaining they’ll pay late or not at all. Those fighters can then choose to stay for potentially nothing ever because they have no better options or go back to fighting in nightclubs filled with drunk white trash.

      • edub says:

        Only to your first remark. I wasn’t bemoaning promotions. I was describing as a downward spiral that would end up hurting the sport.

        I’m not reading the rest. But I think I can describe it. A mixture of what Zack, Alan, and Smoogy usually say with a little bit of “MMA could never recreate what the NFL does”, and “Less promotions means less jobs for mid tier fighter”….

        I’m pretty close right.

    • robthom says:


      He doesn’t work for Zuffa.

      Its a natural reflex to the awful “pride” weeaboo’s that we had to deal with for years.

      I understand.

  8. Mike says:

    I think if Bellator joined up with SF we’d definitely see some nice matchups, but SF is doing pretty well for itself and just because the UFC and WEC decided to merge shouldn’t put any pressure on Coker to think of doing the same thing with Bellator. I’d be intrigued in it if they went that route, but I don’t think they necessarily have to by any means.


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