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Dan Goossen says only way to call Toney/Couture ‘boxing vs. MMA’ is if Randy boxes Toney in second match
By Zach Arnold | August 18, 2010
I’ve got the interview transcript in full-page mode, along with Sam Spira’s response to Dan Goossen’s open challenge. (Sam is involved in Xtreme Couture Management.)
INTERVIEWER: “James Toney’s going to fight for the UFC in, I want to say, a week’s time. How do you feel about that, being Toney’s boxing promoter, about him fighting?”
DAN GOOSSEN: “Well, uh, I, I, I think what it does, it goes to show you who James Toney is. He demonstrated throughout 22 years in the boxing business that he’s never, ever turned down a challenge and… you know, for him to go into another completely different sport, take on who he’s taking on in his first fight in that sport, just shows you the warrior he is and uh, and why I’ve had so much respect for him all these years because there was no one there that he ever told me ‘no’ to when I brought up a name to fight.”
INTERVIEWER: “When James told you that he was going to do this UFC fight against Randy Couture, what was your initial reaction and did any conversation take place from that point on with Dana White?”
DAN GOOSSEN: “Well, my reaction was is that the Klitschkos were giving me a stiff-arm to fight him, so and without the Klitschkos there was really no other fight there that had any significance where James could make, you know, a good portion of money. So, with that hanging out there, the UFC offer, it was something that I told James, look, we know why they want you, but you know it’s a solid pay day, I believe it’s going to do well on PPV, and you know he showed me the contract, I didn’t like the contract, but they are what they are and um… you know, when everything’s said and done, I looked at it from a friendship level for James to make some good money and hopefully come away with this victory.”
INTERVIEWER: “We saw Ricoard Mayorga trying to make, trying to enter at least MMA and Don King stepped in, gave over a million dollars cash for an injunction to stop Mayorga from fighting and he said the reason why he did that is protecting his investment, he was scared that Mayorga would break an arm or something bad would happen and it would stop him from being able to box. Do you share a similar worry like that? I know nothing like that on your part has happened with James Toney. Why is that?”
DAN GOOSSEN: “You know, I’m not, uh, concerned about it. Right now, um, I’m excited to see the fight just because it’s James. He’s a special man and I just believe it’s very important that no matter who tunes in that it’s not boxing vs. MMA on August 28th. It can only be that if it’s on both sides. So, it’s right now MMA against MMA. We have it boxing against MMA once it goes to the other side, OK? We get Randy Couture in the ring with James Toney, then at that point if Randy won the first one MMA and won the second one in boxing, hats off to the MMA guys. OK? But, if he doesn’t, they’re two different sports as I’ve always said.”
INTERVIEWER: “How do you think he’s going to fare next weekend against Randy Couture?”
DAN GOOSSEN: “Look, I would never underestimate James Toney. That’s why in the boxing business the Klitschkos never, ever wanted any part of him. OK? You see who they’ve been fighting. If they thought James Toney didn’t have anything left, that would have been a great name to have over in Germany to fill up 100,000 seat arena. OK? But they always get away. Why? Because they realized James Toney is a warrior and you can never, ever think that it’s going to be an easy night. Now, it’s a whole different sport and, you know, but disregarding that, what did James do? He said, hey, I’m going to do it. I’m going to do it. OK? And he’s counting on being able to going out there and hitting Couture with one of the shots that would definitely put him out if he connects with him. The only thing that now I say is… there’s nothing that this will prove if James lost because it’s a whole different sport. On the other hand, I’ll go on the record right now that win, lose, or draw with Randy Couture, I’ll match what he’s making for this fight and let’s see if he’s got the same warrior uh, uh, make up, foundation that James Toney has, to be able to cross-over to the boxing business and in the next immediate fight, fight James Toney in a boxing ring. OK? I will guarantee him the same amount of money he’s making for this fight in his sport and to bring him over and let him fight James Toney in a boxing ring. I got a lot of respect for Randy. By no means is it disrespect but what James Toney is doing is what I believe that very few fighters in either sport would be willing to do. We’ll find out after August 28th win or lose Randy Couture, I will match what you’re getting for this fight, you come over and you do what James Toney has done. OK? And that is take up the challenge in your sport, now I say you come out and take up the challenge in James’ sport. Then, once that happens, we can all sit back there and say that both sports have some real warriors. But right now, I only see James Toney doing it.”
INTERVIEWER: “Has there been any conversations between yourself and the UFC in being able to have that match put together?”
DAN GOOSSEN: “You’ve got on the scoop right now. You know, many years ago, I spoke to Lorenzo. I wanted to do James Toney against Tito Ortiz. This was about seven years ago, maybe eight, and… you know at the time Lorenzo kind of passed on it, I wanted to tweak the rules and kind of make it a little bit more even, but since James was willing to go to their sport, play by their rules, I say fine, not a problem, now let’s come to our sport and play by our rules. OK? That’s what the great warriors do. That’s what James Toney’s doing. I still don’t discount James. I never, ever would ever, he never surprised me by coming out with the victory.”
INTERVIEWER: “Any last thoughts?”
DAN GOOSSEN: “Hey, all I say is what I said before earlier. Very, very, very few, one person has been willing to walk on the wild side. James Toney. He’s been willing to go over there in a completely different sport. It would be like a Lacrosse player all of a sudden playing Major League Baseball. It would be tough for him to do no matter how many times he hits a ball in Lacrosse. Well, all I say is, Randy Couture, walk on the wild side, win lose or draw against James Toney August 28th, come on and put the 10 ounce gloves on and let’s play by boxer’s rules where James Toney has been a legend.”
Sam Spira’s response: “sounds like a lot of hooey. Really, what sense does that make?”
Dan Rafael of ESPN reports that Vitali Klitschko will fight Shannon Briggs in October in Germany.
Topics: Boxing, Media, MMA, UFC, Zach Arnold | 30 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |
Fundamental flaw in his argument: Toney can use every tool in his arsenal in MMA, as long as he’s smart about when he uses them. Randy can’t use any of his tools in boxing except a dozen knuckle punches while in one position: standing.
His sleazy faux-challenge is similar to Dana saying Toney can come in if he only strikes with his left hand.
Bottom line, this isn’t MMA versus boxing, it’s multi-dimensional fighter versus highly-specialized fighter.
. . . Um, no. You seem to forget that Toney is a boxer, not an MMA fighter. These “tools in his arsenal” that you speak of: What the hell are they?? The only tools he legitimately has are his left and right hands, because in order to be fighting at the “elite” level in the UFC you need to train for years, and need to adopt multiple fighting styles. That’s why the most one-dimensional fighters are limited and the one’s that are more well-rounded fare much better. That being said, it would be much easier for Coutre to accept Goosen’s challenge than it is for a boxer to step into an MMA ring. Are MMA fighters as skilled in the ring as top-tier boxers? Absolutely not. But at least they understand the concept of striking, jabbing, and throwing well-timed punches. I’ve never been surprised that MMA fighters have not wanted to step into the ring with a real boxer, because they know they will get worked and embarrassed, but it’s understandable because it’s not their element. I’m interested to see if Coutre has the stones to accept . . .
Ben Askren is going out Bellator as basically a wrestling with extremely minimal striking and submission defense and is looking like he will be world class when given the chance to prove himself.
Brock Lesnar has become the #1 Heavyweight in the world with wrestling and learning the rest as he goes along.
Sure, wrestling is better for MMA…. But this iea that you have to be completely well rounded is a myth. BE good at what you do and avoid the other fighters strengths and you can win in MMA. Guys who have 20 fights can be beaten by a 0-0 fighter who comes from a strong background in another fighting art. That’s what makes MMA so great.
45 Huddle, I often times feel that the only thing you need to be successful in MMA is take-downs and/or take-down defense.
If you are really good at either, you’ve got a chance.
“Dan Rafael of ESPN reports that Vitali Klitschko will fight Shannon Briggs in October in Germany.”
I can’t imagine a fight that I’m less interested in.
Vitali Klitschko v Ray Austin?
At least Briggs will be good for an interview.
LOL, yikes.
Also, I didn’t realize that Klitschko is 39 until I read the article linked.
So what happens to Heavyweight Boxing once the brothers retire? Does it continue to be pathetic? Or does the lack of a dominant champion at least bring some sort of life back to the division?
If only David Haye would just sign the damn contract and fight one of em.
It seems that every big US prospect is getting derailed these days.
Wladimir isn’t retiring till someone retires him. And you know, its not like he’s unbeatable. Plus, add in his age, and odds are Vitali’s gonna be irrelevant and gone by the time that happens.
I can. Amir Khan vs. JMM at 140.
What kinda dude openly admits of wanting to face fighters past their prime.
JMM is considered the best lightweight in the world right now. Not sure how he’s past his prime.
Because He fought and beat Diaz who has looked like shit in his passed three years. His best win at the weight class was Joel Casamayor almost 4 years ago. If he was really interested in keeping that title of best LW in the world he would already be signed to fight Katsidis
I was more speaking towards the interview he(Amir Khan) did where he openly admitted of wanting to fight elite names at the later stage of their career.
I think Goossen is rambling on about Randy boxing because he knows that Toney is going to get beat. This match would never have been started if Toney wouldn’t have shot his mouth off about boxers being in better shape and training harder than MMA. That’s when Randy invited him over, and he could see if he could knock Randy out. That doesn’t sound to me like Toney is so much a warrior as he is a loud mouth that doesn’t know when to keep his comments to himself.
Toney is insane.
I didn’t know Shannon Briggs was still alive.
Couture’s chin is so bad that this is not a guaranteed win for him.
Either way, I could care less about MMA vs. Boxing. Especially with two 40 year olds. I’d rather see some prime boxers port their skills over and make a true run at things.
Having high level boxers would only improve punching in MMA. Of course, it still wouldn’t look as crisp as boxing…. Even for boxers. The grappling makes striking look sloppier….
Damn 45….something must be happening in the heavens tonight. I have agreed 100% with both of your posts here on this thread.
Is this a dawn of a new age?
RL, Couture’s chin is the only thing that keeps this fight interesting or the outcome in doubt.
I wonder what happens if/when Toney wins this thing with a 1-2 20 seconds in.
Will we see a bunch of boxers make a run for MMA?
I can already see Evander Holyfield vs Herschel Walker in SF.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see Antonio Tarver come over next, maybe Roy Jones and Briggs. Washed up name guys.
And really that should be the biggest worry. MMA doesn’t need boxings wash outs….
One could make the argument that most of the wrestlers,Judokas and, Jiu-Jiujitsukas in MMA are washouts for their respective sports. In MMA, they have a tremendous advantage if they can keep the fight in their terms, as you earlier pointed out.
Brock Lesnar won Div. I Heavyweight, but didn’t do much on the world and, Olympic stage, but he came into MMA with D 1 champion skills and, that gave him an advantage. Washout boxers may do the same if the fight ends up like the last Penn/Edgar match.
Roy Jones at around 40 coming into MMA is a little different then Lesnar making a career out of it.
And a lot of these wrestlers failing at the world stage is hardly relevent. Folystyle (College) Wrestling is a far better tool for MMA then Freestyle is.
As well as, certain styles of wrestling transition better to MMA. A Brock Lesnar type of wrestler is perfect for MMA. A Jake Rosholt is not.
If big time boxers came into MMA, I don’t think the Floyd Mayweathers of the world would be #1. It would likely be Top 10 guys who’s style and ability to pick up anti grappling skills translates best to MMA. And those guys wouldn’t be considered washouts. They would still be high level, just not the best at boxing.
It’s these guys who have their overall athletic abilities diminishing are the types of boxers I don’t want to see come into MMA just for a payday.
If Kermit Citron moves to MMA, that would be awesome. Sure he isn’t the #1 boxer in the world, but his striking and wrestling combine for a wonderful combo. He would likely beat all of the other boxers who would come over.
It was James Toney that WANTED to fight in the UFC, why would Randy Couture have to prove anything? he wasn’t hanging around Boxing promoters begging for a fight was he?
Exactly.
And he hasn’t been the one talking a bunch of shit either. Toney was begging Dana for a fight, and calling out everyone from Brock Lesnar to Chuck Liddell. Randy just simply jumped at the opportunity to shut his ass up.
Alot of boxers see the skill level and the differences in arsenals where MMA is concerned. James Toney just doesnt seem to be one of em. All you have to do is look at Inside MMA episode to see he truly doesnt understand what he is getting into.
He was. The problem is that no one cared about writing on James Toney trying to get irrelevant boxing matches with people like Antonio Tarver.
What reputable, large-market boxing commission would approve a boxing match between Toney and Couture? Meanwhile in MMA they have booked and will certainly sell out a ‘match’ between a Hall of Fame ex-champ and a guy who is 0-0-0 in the sport, a ‘fight’ which the very promoter calls a freak show.
Sure thing boss.
I’ll box James Toney for only 25 mil.
Toney vs. any Klitschko would never ever sell a 100.000 seat arena in Germany. Besides the fact that there is no arena of that size over here 😀
Actually i believe that it would be good promotion for MMA if Couture would take on Toney in a boxing match afterwards. His chances would be as slim as Toneys are now, especially with Couture being a wrestler and not famous for his striking. But his calm and friendly nature would really show boxing fans that MMA is not 2 savages in a cage but athletes doing their tough and difficult sport.
From the moment this fight was announced I didn’t like it.
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