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One of the best interviews of all-time with BJJ instructor extraordinaire Lloyd Irvin

By Zach Arnold | July 26, 2010

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For the hardcore fans who know the name Lloyd Irvin, one of two reactions generally occurs — he’s either the best at what he does (Brandon Vera, Luke Thomas) or he’s a complete phony (popular message boards, some media writers). The truth, as with everything in life, is somewhere in the middle. In Lloyd’s case, the facts stronger are on his side of being as legitimate as he is.

Lloyd Irvin radio interview with Caleb of The Fightworks Podcast

Which is why when I listened to his lengthy interview with my old radio mate Caleb a couple of weeks ago I was excited. When I finally listened to the interview, I was so entertained by it that I knew that I would give it my highest recommendation for all of you to download and go listen to it. There’s a lot of aspects to the interview that I would love to highlight (I’ll highlight some), but I thought his story about the first time he met Mario Yamasaki and his initial adventure in learning jiu-jitsu was quite the deal. One thing Lloyd does not lack is self-confidence.

If you don’t know who Lloyd is, you may have heard his name in media reports about him being a victim of a home invasion robbery and how he thwarted off the would-be attackers. A lot of people in the media gave him a hard time because they didn’t believe his story. If you click on that link in the first sentence of this paragraph, you’ll read that in fact his story checked out and that one of the men who tried to rob him is allegedly a serial killer.

During his interview with Caleb, he talked about his fast progression in learning BJJ and that if he had the learning tools at his disposal as opposed to what he had back when he was starting out, he would have been a bigger force than he currently is.

“Yeah, I went through the belts pretty quickly, but I think I could have done it even quicker if I had an instructor over the top on me correcting my mistakes because like I said from after six months of training, I never had an instructor over the top of me with me every day ever so I basically went through this path by myself. I’ve never had a student, throughout my journey, I never had a student or a training partner that could beat me. So I’m always like the hammer, I’m always the guy like I said like these guys now they have the ability where they’re in the room and everyone’s tough and everyone’s getting tapped and no matter who… everyone’s getting tapped in the room and these guys have it so good that I’m kind of jealous because they have an environment that I wish I could have been in.”

I would strongly recommend that you click on the Fightworks link and download the interview to listen to it. If you can’t, however, I’ve transcribed about 15 minutes of it. Topics included in discussion are: the proper way to promote a student and give them the right belt, whether jiu-jitsu as a sport can grow in popularity, his philosophy on what his students display and work on for submissions during tournaments, and why he markets himself and his products the way he does and dismisses his critics.

Some instructors give promotions/belts out way too fast to students who aren’t deserving. What do you make of some instructors doing this ‘too fast’?

“Too fast depends on the person and the situation and the scenario. It all depends on the coach, too, because like you know there’s too fast where there are some people out here that are promoting people who like they haven’t proven anything in competition results, they haven’t proven anything in skill level results and some people are promoting their friends when maybe their friends when their friends may not shouldn’t be promoted and that starts putting a bad light on certain promotions. Like me, like I’m hard on promotions, super-hard, but if a person deserves it I believe that they shouldn’t be held back and I don’t hold them back.”

Could BJJ become an Olympic sport? What kind of popularity growth could we see with BJJ?

“I think as far as making it bigger to everybody, it’s going to be hard because conceptually to a general viewer jiu-jitsu is considered boring. You know, even like Judo, when they try to make sport Judo and they try to make the ground not as long so they can stand you up quicker because viewers like knockouts. Like, in MMA they want to see knockouts, they want to see getting people get punished. They want to see, in Judo they want to see people getting thrown. But in jiu-jitsu it’s a ground art and unless you’re going to start standing people up, the general viewer isn’t going to be interested in people just rolling on the ground. If you look at the UFC which has a major, major industry and you know people are getting on board, if they’re on the ground for 30 seconds or one minute not doing anything, not punching each other, they’re booing. So, like as far as jiu-jitsu being able to going past becoming mainstream, I don’t see that ever happening.

“Think about this — everything’s about stats, so what’s the closest partner that we have to us, which is judo. Judo has been in the Olympics for how long? Judo has exposure, they have the barrier of entry into the sport of Judo financially for people going to clubs, you can go to clubs for free, go to clubs for $30, $50 a month. It’s on TV. You have high-level people, you know, world championships, it’s in almost every country, and they can’t do it. So, and one of the biggest things they always talk about in Judo is trying to decrease the amount of ground time so they can get the fight back up to their feet so viewers want to see throws. … Yeah, I just don’t believe it’s going to hit mainstream live viewership. But the people who do love it, LOVE IT. Are obsessed with it, you know?”

There’s been some criticism of the moves your top students display during tournaments as far as repeatedly relying on a few moves that they know best as opposed to displaying a wide variety in their arsenal.

“Doing the omaplata triangle as blue, purple, brown, black. Fabricio Werdum, I’ve been watching him, blue, purple, brown, black. Everyone has to do the same thing. So you have to get good AT SOMETHING. So you can get at something LATER or you can get good at something now. So, like, for example, all my students, like I have a chart that has a list of the most highest percentage submissions, transitions, set-ups in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu history looking at all the world championships, looking at all the Pan-Ams, looking at all the high-level Black Belt tournaments. What transitions, submissions, and sequences work the majority of the time. So we work only those things. So if you look at our guys, like yeah, oh look at Tracey (Goodell), she does triangles. Look at Ryan Hall, he does triangles. Look at some of my new guys, they do kimuras. YEAH. We do kimuras, we do Bravo, we do triangles, I mean this is what we do. We take the backs. But these are high-percentage things whether it’s white belt, blue belt, or black belt. Now my guys that you see in the tournaments they’re being successful with them right now, they’re being successful with them at the tournaments because that’s their A-game. When they go to tournaments like the Worlds or the Brazilian nationals, they’re not going to play there. Win, lose, or draw, as long as they go out there and do their best and not give up, I’m happy with them. But they’re not going out there to play their B-game. When we go to Grappler’s Quest or NAGA, not saying NAGA or Grappler’s Quest is like demoted, downgraded or anything, but these are tournaments that we have to go out and try stuff that it’s in our practice game plan, we have to go out there and try things. For example, I have a guy named DJ Jackson, he just got Silver in the Worlds. He lost to his teammate Frank Camacho. His game is take people down, pass guard, kimura-them. But the last four or five tournaments like we went to Ohio, we did a couple of Grappler’s Quest, NAGAs, he even went to the New York Open and he pulled guard. You would never see DJ ever on his back pulling guard willingly at a major tournament. But at these other minor, what we consider minor tournaments, work-through tournaments, yeah he pulled guard. So could he have pulled guard and lost because his guard is not as good yet? Yes, but that’s a part of experience, we’re not worried about that yet. We have a bigger goal. The end goal is the major tournaments. At some point you have to go out and test your weaker areas. But at the majors, people are saying my guys are just doing this, just doing that, YEAH, that’s their A-game. If people stop it then you’ll see their second and third and fourth move but until that happens, you’re not going to see it. So, you know, it’s a lack of knowledge.

“If you want to be successful, you got to model success.”

Is there a secret to your success?

“This is probably the first time that I put it out publicly, but like I said people are talking about stuff that they have absolutely no idea about. Like I said, the people I surround myself with, the masterminds which I work with like the stuff we’re doing, the coaching level, the education level, the studying level, the research level is you know very few people even understand that this stuff is around, that people are doing this…

“I believe there is a secret and like I always say when we were kids and someone came to you and said, hey, can you keep a secret? And you said, oh yeah, but like what they were getting ready to tell you? What they were getting ready to tell you is something you don’t know. So if I know something that you don’t know, conceptually to you it’s a secret. I’m not saying that there’s no one else in the world that knows it, but it is a secret. So, we have secrets, you know what I’m saying? [I’m not saying] it’s a secret technique no else knows or is doing, but there’s a secret to our process. I had a sit-down talk with Rafael Mendes about this. He said, yeah, I don’t know there’s secrets blah blah, I said man, how many do you think are doing your process? We went all through his process and everything they were doing and I said how many people are doing it? He said no one out there. I said do you think that is a major factor to your path to your success? He said yeah. I said if no one else is doing it, then it’s a secret, no one else is doing it. He said, oooooh, I see. Yeah. I believe we have secrets. We have a secret process. We have secret things that we do and people put into this process. It doesn’t even have anything to do with jiu-jitsu. It has stuff to do about learning at a rapid pace. It has something to do learning at a higher-education. It has to do with much greater things that don’t even have to do with jiu-jitsu. Like if you look at sports science and you know the development, you know, like different countries have Government-funding for research and development in trying to create the ultimate athlete, you know it’s just different things. I’m taking these things outside of my industry that are working at the highest level in athletics and sports and bring them back to this small jiu-jitsu industry because jiu-jitsu is really like a baby, like you have people, instructors that have no education in sports, physics, physiology or anything like that and they’re still doing running the warm-ups like you know like for example a jiu-jitsu warm-up, you run around, you run around, you run around, you start doing flips and do all these different things. Well that’s fine if you’re 23 years old but if a physical therapist came in and saw that warm-up they would think what on earth is this because you have to warm the body up and stretch the body first and then before you do the flips and so forth. But you won’t know it if you’re 25, 30 years old, but when you have a 38-year old student like I can’t do that stuff any more. And like I said, I used to do the same thing because I followed what I was taught but as later on as I got more education and things, I make changes you know.”

There are some people who have big problems with the way you market your products.

“Yeah. This is fact. My style of marketing is the most effective market on earth. The problem is there have been criminals in past history that have used this style of marketing, so there’s a thing that we always say that good marketing can sell a non-existent product where as bad marketing can’t sell free gold. Now if you think about that, let’s use the grappling blue print. There’s people throughout the entire world that have heard about the grappling blue print, OK? Talking about it on forums and so forth, but at the same time not one single person on earth has seen the grappling blue print, you know outside of you know people close to me. So, for you know conceptually the grappling blue print could not exist, but it does but it could not exist but at the same time this type of marketing has the entire world talking about it and knowing about it, all right? So now that’s when you come to the term SNAKE OIL SALESMAN. See, there are people that were using this highly-effective style of marketing to sell what they call snake oil. It was oil or liniments or stuff that was supposed to cure different diseases and problems that it did not, you know what I’m saying? It was probably fake, it was water mixed with oil or whatever it was, and they were selling it using this type of marketing. So that’s how the term snake oils salesmen, they were circus people going from town to town selling this stuff to cure all, shingles and all different types of stuff. Now you also have people who are spending $100 million dollars, $200 million dollars to market products and services online or on television and they’re using what… if you’re going to spend $100 million dollars on marketing a product, would you want to use the most effective style of marketing or the least effective? And I’m sure I know what you’re answer is. If you’re $100 million dollars was in jeopardy, so at the same time these people that are using this style of marketing are putting this style of you know this style of marketing behind their marketing dollars on infomercials. So you have some people doing infomercials that selling stuff that doesn’t really work, just going after people that you know they want to lose weight and you know go buy that product or pills or lotions that won’t work so it gets a bad connotation with that, like other people have sold things with this style of marketing that you know were looked at as fakes and frauds so forth. But this is my point here… My position is this: IF you are using this style of marketing to sell something that does not work, that’s fake, then you are a criminal. BUT, if you are using this style of marketing to market something that does work, that if people use it as you prescribe that they will get the results that you state, then you’re not (a criminal). So like people said, oh you know he’s making claims that aren’t true, if you think about, if you look at what I ever claim per se like my like my BLACK BELT IN THREE AND A HALF YEARS, it says discover how to get your black belt in three and a half years just like Lloyd did. What that whole thing was about was about the grappling blue print and what I’m showing you is WHAT I DID. See, all my products, all my drilling tapes, everything that I put out is stuff that WE DO. Like it’s not fake. Like if you would come to my school and drill with us, you would see the drilling things that are on my DVDs. … So I believe in what I’m doing. I believe in the products. I believe in the system that we’re doing. I believe at the same time that there are people throughout the world that don’t access to instructors. See, the people that have access to instructors, the instructors will believe whatever they believe and brainwash their students to believe whatever they want to believe. I could care less about them but who I do care about is people like me who are somewhere, love jiu-jitsu, want to learn jiu-jitsu, and at the same time don’t have an instructor, don’t have pure guidance. I have people on my list that have instructors that aren’t getting good guidance. So like what happens under Lloyd Irvin, like understand this — there was no video tapes, there was no DVDs out per se there is now when I came up. If I had access to the stuff like YouTube and the videos, the DVDs and products when I was coming up, I think I could have even done things light years faster. I’m out here figuring things out on my own, piecing stuff from videos and so forth. So, yeah, I’m a shameless promoter. My job is to promote what I do and anything I do I’m trying to be the best. It’s like what P Diddy always talk about. Every day you go to sleep, you’re either winning or you’re losing and I don’t like to lose and so if I’m going to market my product and services, I’m going to find out what is the most effective marketing techniques in the world.”

Lloyd Irvin radio interview with Caleb of The Fightworks Podcast

Topics: Media, MMA, Zach Arnold | 22 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |

22 Responses to “One of the best interviews of all-time with BJJ instructor extraordinaire Lloyd Irvin”

  1. Mark says:

    You have to have accomplished something for your delusions to be amusing. When you’re a guy whose claim to fame is teaching a writer and one of the most overrated fighters in MMA history (and as pointed out have your students regularly mocked at tournaments for showing very basic skill) then you’re just sad, not entertaining.

    I respect good self-promotion, but he’s just boring in the large dose.

  2. Mr. Mike says:

    Hey Mark, I think Lloyd should be judged more on how his students do in BJJ competition. How do they do? Does he have lot’s of first, second place winners in all the age brackets? Do you know anything about that? You only addressed his comments about his detractors.

    • Mark says:

      No, admittedly I do not fly to Virginia to watch Jiu Jitsu amateur tourneys. But there are scores of negative comments about his students online and that is all I brought up because it was a question he was asked on the interview.

      Granted, obviously lots of the criticism of his students is due to the fact that Irvin makes himself a target with his grating persona, but lots of people who have seen them and know a thing or two about the art say they aren’t very good and the ones who say they are good are his students. And one negative mention of his name brings about half of his students onto the website to defend his honor almost like a cult. You’d think before classes he goes “Okay, before we begin, let’s go over to my computer to defend my honor on Cage Potato and UG.”

      Can I assume you’re one of his students since you take exception to my questioning?

      • edub says:

        Well I am not a student of his, but I do live and have grown up in the NOVA area. His students routinely win in No-Gi/Gi white belt-purple belt categories more than any other school in the area. They are probably about 2-1 in considering their wins with the next best school around NOVA.

        Why did you pass judgement so quickly on it when you admit to not having much knowledge on the subject?

        • Mark says:

          All I said was:

          #1 That I don’t share Zach’s amusement about the interview.

          #2 Brought up what was brought up in the interview, that he’s heavily criticized in the online MMA/BJJ community, but that a lot of that is due to his annoying public image.

          #3 That I found the mentality of his students feeling the need to swarm forums/comments sections in his defense pretty bizarre since no other trainer has students who go to such lengths. And there’s trainers/schools/camps who get absolutely trashed online who let it slide. But they can’t.

          I’d hardly call any of that an unfair rush to judgment. 2 out of 3 are backed up by facts.

        • Mr. Mike says:

          I’m not a Lloyd Irvin student, but I’ve looked over various tournament results pages and, have noticed his players showing up. My perception is that he knows what he’s doing.

  3. edub says:

    2 out of 3 are backed up by your own version of what you want to pass off as facts:

    \”When you’re a guy whose claim to fame is teaching a writer and one of the most overrated fighters in MMA history (and as pointed out have your students regularly mocked at tournaments for showing very basic skill) then you’re just sad, not entertaining.\”

    That is not in anyway a fact, and in fact it completely contradicts what I have seen in pretty much every tournament I have been to in the VA/MD area. Is Mike Fowler mocked at every tournamet he enters? Is JT Torres mocked at every tournament he enters?

    Lloyd Irvin\’s academy is one of(if not) the best North American based JiuJitsu school in the world. Thats based and started purely by someone from the USA.

    \”That I found the mentality of his students feeling the need to swarm forums/comments sections in his defense pretty bizarre since no other trainer has students who go to such lengths. And there’s trainers/schools/camps who get absolutely trashed online who let it slide. But they can’t.\”

    I mean are we still waiting on this swarm you speak of? Pretty much you got called out for passing on an off based
    generality of them being a low class grappling school, and you changed your argument to how worked up they get arguing online…

    • Mark says:

      ”When you’re a guy whose claim to fame is teaching a writer and one of the most overrated fighters in MMA history (and as pointed out have your students regularly mocked at tournaments for showing very basic skill) then you’re just sad, not entertaining.\”

      That is not in anyway a fact, and in fact it completely contradicts what I have seen in pretty much every tournament I have been to in the VA/MD area. Is Mike Fowler mocked at every tournamet he enters? Is JT Torres mocked at every tournament he enters?

      #1: Uh, that would be the one point out of the three that I said was the opinion, genius

      #2: I clearly said “AS POINTED OUT (as in pointed out in the interview we’re talking about) have your students regularly mocked at tournaments for showing very basic skill.”

      Here, I’ll break it down for you since you’re struggling to understand it.

      See, “as pointed out” doesn’t mean as pointed out by me saying it’s a stone cold fact. It means enough people are saying it for the interviewer (who otherwise gave him a pretty butt-kissing interview) to ask him to defend himself on it.

      Maybe you can start packing a book about comprehending English writing with you to read between tournament matches, edub.

      • edub says:

        “There’s been some criticism of the moves your top students display during tournaments as far as repeatedly relying on a few moves that they know best as opposed to displaying a wide variety in their arsenal.”

        Thats what was said. You said:

        “(and as pointed out have your students regularly mocked at tournaments for showing very basic skill)”

        You got called out for saying a whole bunch of nonsense. Deal with it. You also said his claim to fame is teaching a writer and blah blah……

        “Maybe you can start packing a book about comprehending English writing with you to read between tournament matches, edub.”

        I never hurled insults I just simply called you out for speaking on something you have no knowledge of(although supposedly you know some people who know a lot about the art)…

        Good try dancing around the real topic though.

        • Mark says:

          You’re hopeless. But we’ll give it one more go ’round.

          “There’s been some criticism of the moves your top students display during tournaments as far as repeatedly relying on a few moves that they know best as opposed to displaying a wide variety in their arsenal.”

          Thats what was said. You said:

          “(and as pointed out have your students regularly mocked at tournaments for showing very basic skill)”

          You got called out for saying a whole bunch of nonsense. Deal with it.

          Uh, it’s the same thing said with different wording. Few moves = basic skills. And BJJ elitists (the ones who have an issue with Irvin and his camp) are critical of it.

          You also said his claim to fame is teaching a writer and blah blah……

          And Brandon Vera (“one of the most overrated fighters in MMA history”) That’s not correct? Sorry, but JT Torres is not famous just because he beat Dustin Hazelett on YouTube. Your regional pride is charming. But the world is round, though.

          I never hurled insults I just simply called you out for speaking on something you have no knowledge of(although supposedly you know some people who know a lot about the art)…

          Good try dancing around the real topic though.

          How did I dance around the real topic when I’ve answered everyone of your claims? Your stupidity has gotten on my nerves so I had to call you on it. Stop coming back to the thread if you don’t like it.

        • edub says:

          To the little kid:

          “Uh, it’s the same thing said with different wording. Few moves = basic skills. And BJJ elitists (the ones who have an issue with Irvin and his camp) are critical of it.”

          One way is to say it respectfully, and by saying that way make sure you still have respect for yourself. Another way is how you said: The completely ignorant way, passing it off as every great BJJ practicioner thinks that way which simply does not happen. And you also said something along the lines of some guys might not like him because of the way he comes across. Why don’t you actually take that to heart when you’re writing instead of spewing out second hand ramblings of trainers his team has probably beaten in tournaments?

          “And Brandon Vera (“one of the most overrated fighters in MMA history”) That’s not correct? Sorry, but JT Torres is not famous just because he beat Dustin Hazelett on YouTube. Your regional pride is charming. But the world is round, though.”

          -Another turn around. When did I ever say that Brandon Vera wasn’t overrated? I never said JT Torres is famous either. I said do people mock him at events. Which of course the answer is no. I also said Mike Fowler who’s a top 5 Abu Dhabi finisher. Yes the world probably reckognizes him as Brandon Vera’s trainer, but that’s just because the UFC is a lot more popular than sport Jiu jitsu. The BJJ community surely knows him as an elite trainer. His claim to fame as you so pussily(made that word up just for you) worded it is probably the level of success he’s had as a North American trainer, and the immense success his teams have had in the juvenile and women’s divisions of BJJ.

          “How did I dance around the real topic when I’ve answered everyone of your claims? Your stupidity has gotten on my nerves so I had to call you on it. Stop coming back to the thread if you don’t like it.”

          You still have. There are at least three objects we’re now talking about that has absolutely nothing to do with your first posts. Let’s go back and look at your initial post:

          “You have to have accomplished something for your delusions to be amusing. When you’re a guy whose claim to fame is teaching a writer and one of the most overrated fighters in MMA history (and as pointed out have your students regularly mocked at tournaments for showing very basic skill) then you’re just sad, not entertaining.

          I respect good self-promotion, but he’s just boring in the large dose.”

          Take a long look at it, because if you don’t see that this a personal attack based on very limited knowledge of the subject then I don’t know what to tell ya. Stop running from what you said. Own up to it, and maybe one day you won’t be such a little kid.

          We can keep going at this for the rest of our lives if you want, I really don’t care.

        • Mark says:

          One way is to say it respectfully, and by saying that way make sure you still have respect for yourself. Another way is how you said: The completely ignorant way, passing it off as every great BJJ practicioner thinks that way which simply does not happen. And you also said something along the lines of some guys might not like him because of the way he comes across. Why don’t you actually take that to heart when you’re writing instead of spewing out second hand ramblings of trainers his team has probably beaten in tournaments?

          Oh, now the issue is I don’t show Lloyd Irvin proper respect? You can’t get more laughable if you tried.

          I know he’s your hometown hero and all, but acting like I’m the only guy who has ever said he’s an annoying douchebag for countless reasons with too high of an opinion of himself is ludicrous. Yeah, I said people said he and his camp is overrated, this is something you have had to spend all week whining about? Get over it, dude. If I was Lloyd Irvin I’d look into filing a preemptive restraining order on you, because that kind of devotion to some guy you don’t know cannot be healthy.

          And how about all the disrespectful comments you’ve made against Fedor, M-1, Strikeforce, ect? You’ve repeated many accusations and false opinions on the people involved with the non-UFC MMA world. Hypocritical much?

          Another turn around. When did I ever say that Brandon Vera wasn’t overrated? I never said JT Torres is famous either. I said do people mock him at events. Which of course the answer is no. I also said Mike Fowler who’s a top 5 Abu Dhabi finisher. Yes the world probably reckognizes him as Brandon Vera’s trainer, but that’s just because the UFC is a lot more popular than sport Jiu jitsu.

          Turn around? No, I was just pointing out since you made it sound like I was only giving him credit for training Luke Thomas that I also included Vera.

          The BJJ community surely knows him as an elite trainer. His claim to fame as you so pussily(made that word up just for you) worded it is probably the level of success he’s had as a North American trainer, and the immense success his teams have had in the juvenile and women’s divisions of BJJ.

          I’m a pussy for pointing out he’s more famous to the world at large for his MMA fighter work than the pure BJJ work? Huh?

          You still have. There are at least three objects we’re now talking about that has absolutely nothing to do with your first posts. Let’s go back and look at your initial post:

          “You have to have accomplished something for your delusions to be amusing. When you’re a guy whose claim to fame is teaching a writer and one of the most overrated fighters in MMA history (and as pointed out have your students regularly mocked at tournaments for showing very basic skill) then you’re just sad, not entertaining.

          I respect good self-promotion, but he’s just boring in the large dose.”

          Take a long look at it, because if you don’t see that this a personal attack based on very limited knowledge of the subject then I don’t know what to tell ya. Stop running from what you said. Own up to it, and maybe one day you won’t be such a little kid.

          When have I not owned up to that? You just pulled at up a few posts ago with the “waaah, stop saying mean things about Virginians! It’s a opinion with no fact!” deal and I said it is my opinion that I don’t like him. I’ve even admitted several times here I haven’t seen his students beyond the major names you’ve pointed out because I don’t live there and don’t waste time tracking down videos of amateur BJJ competitions like apparently you do.

          We can keep going at this for the rest of our lives if you want, I really don’t care.

          Personally I think you’re better off to gather up what’s left of your dignity and go back to your old job of being 45 Huddle’s echo, because you’re not too good at this whole “give your own opinion” thing.

        • edub says:

          “I know he’s your hometown hero and all, but acting like I’m the only guy who has ever said he’s an annoying douchebag for countless reasons with too high of an opinion of himself is ludicrous.”

          -Again, kind of arallying cry against you, WHEN DID I SAY YOU WERE THE ONLY ONE? COME ON TELL, WHEN? I dont even really even like this guy. I just havve a problem with people on the internet actling like they know everything. You act like your a fukin beacon of integrity on this site when you routinely hate on things for no reason at all. Remember when you went nuts over people defending Tito in the Jenna-Tito fiasco. You thought it was horrendous people were calling into question her integrity, and looked what fukin happend you were completely wrong. Maybe you should’nt have watched you mommy or whatever dumb bitch it was get her ass beat daily. Then maybe you wouldn’t be such a condescending little prick. Or who knows maybe it didn’t happen enough if she was anything like you.

          “And how about all the disrespectful comments you’ve made against Fedor, M-1, Strikeforce, ect? You’ve repeated many accusations and false opinions on the people involved with the non-UFC MMA world. Hypocritical much?”

          Hey pussy boy; you are probably thinking of EJ because half the time I don’t agree with 45. How bout you check posts of the recent past before you make a retarted comment. I’m not even gonna go into the shit that you do like how we have a whole thread centered around SF and one guy jumps in with an anti Zuffa comment. Because guess who comes in right afterward “Mark the pussy” championing the anti Zuffa hate wagon. your such a fukin tool it’s sickening.

          “Turn around? No, I was just pointing out since you made it sound like I was only giving him credit for training Luke Thomas that I also included Vera.”

          How did I turn anything around? You’re the one who said the shit! In a colomn about his influence in BJJ you pointed out his claim to fame being …

          Keep going with the snide comments man. And FTR I don’t train anymore. I haven’t in months, and onlytrained with people from Lloyd Irvin’s schools a few times. I should have every reason to dislike him because his camp routinely kicked are ass(copa nova) while I was there.

          You finally come out and say you don’t like him, and that you have ver little knowledge about him after an week long argument. Good job dipshit.

    • Mark says:

      I love this. You’re calling me immature one minute and now among other things: hoping my mother was abused, calling me “pussy” several times, not to mention the numerous grammatical errors that should have been cleared up in middle school at the latest. Who’s the child again?

      -Again, kind of arallying cry against you, WHEN DID I SAY YOU WERE THE ONLY ONE? COME ON TELL, WHEN? I dont even really even like this guy. I just havve a problem with people on the internet actling like they know everything. You act like your a fukin beacon of integrity on this site when you routinely hate on things for no reason at all. Remember when you went nuts over people defending Tito in the Jenna-Tito fiasco. You thought it was horrendous people were calling into question her integrity, and looked what fukin happend you were completely wrong. Maybe you should’nt have watched you mommy or whatever dumb bitch it was get her ass beat daily. Then maybe you wouldn’t be such a condescending little prick. Or who knows maybe it didn’t happen enough if she was anything like you.

      Yes, forgive me for being a little peeved at a bunch of sexually frustrated Neanderthals acting like a woman deserved to be physically abused just because they have issues with women. Man, how way out of line I was on that one. Please forgive me for standing up to the Mel Gibson school of gender relations.

      And you dislike people on the internet with strong opinions? On a site with “opinion” in the name nonetheless? Maybe it’s time to trash your computer. Or at least go to somewhere like Sherdog’s forum where they are more in line with your IQ level.

      Hey pussy boy; you are probably thinking of EJ because half the time I don’t agree with 45. How bout you check posts of the recent past before you make a retarted comment. I’m not even gonna go into the shit that you do like how we have a whole thread centered around SF and one guy jumps in with an anti Zuffa comment. Because guess who comes in right afterward “Mark the pussy” championing the anti Zuffa hate wagon. your such a fukin tool it’s sickening.

      Yes, I am going to spend hours reading through old FightOpinion posts to draw from on some argument I’m only having not because I care, but because you won’t let it go.

      And actually I get in arguments with the Zuffa haters like Alan, David M, Gaijin, ect. as much as I do with 45, EJ, and you. Those just last longer because the Zuffaites take things far more personally. Kinda like, well, you know.

      How did I turn anything around? You’re the one who said the shit! In a colomn about his influence in BJJ you pointed out his claim to fame being …

      Geez, your reading comprehension sucks worse by the day. Do you have dyslexia or ADD?

      Keep going with the snide comments man.

      Yes, calling you on poor arguments is so much more classless than advocating domestic violence. You are a regular Dr. Robert Watson. ROAR INTERNET RAGE~!

      And FTR I don’t train anymore. I haven’t in months, and onlytrained with people from Lloyd Irvin’s schools a few times. I should have every reason to dislike him because his camp routinely kicked are ass(copa nova) while I was there.

      You finally come out and say you don’t like him, and that you have ver little knowledge about him after an week long argument. Good job dipshit.

      Sorry for not rushing to the library to pick up his autobiography.

      • edub says:

        Last post on this. The whole argument I made was you passed your opinions off as facts, and acted like things were a certain way eventhough they are not. I really don’t care about your opinion, it’s yours good for you.

        However you wanna treat this just remember, you started the name calling, and you kept the argument going.

        “Yes, forgive me for being a little peeved at a bunch of sexually frustrated Neanderthals acting like a woman deserved to be physically abused just because they have issues with women.”

        See this here is just a completely factless baseless statement. People were defending Tito because Jenna had a history of erratic behavior, drug use, domestic trouble. They were right. Jenna came out days later and pretty much admitted she was lying.

        Your ignorance astounds me.

        • Mark says:

          Last post on this. The whole argument I made was you passed your opinions off as facts, and acted like things were a certain way eventhough they are not. I really don’t care about your opinion, it’s yours good for you.

          No, you passed my opinions off as facts and can’t let it go.

          However you wanna treat this just remember, you started the name calling, and you kept the argument going.

          I kept my insults into the realms of the argument (your reading comprehension and intellect are lacking, ect.) You got so worked up so went to baseless personal attacks. Big difference. I don’t take the internet that seriously to go beyond calling someone stupid if they can’t comprehend a post.

          And I kept the argument going? Please. I gave my opinion and left it at that. I wasn’t even planning on saying anything else about this dumb crap since I don’t give a crap enough beyond making an offhand comment on the guy. You jumped in acting like I had just denied the Holocaust or something and wouldn’t shut up for several days. I was just refuting your strange interpretations. Trust me, I’d have gotten much more out of arguing with any random brick wall, my friend.

          See this here is just a completely factless baseless statement. People were defending Tito because Jenna had a history of erratic behavior, drug use, domestic trouble. They were right. Jenna came out days later and pretty much admitted she was lying.

          From my memory of the incident (and I don’t have enough time on my hands to go back and Google and read it again) the details were sketchy, certain people started saying stuff to the effect of “well she probably provoked it because she’s a porn star and all porno stars are crazy”. I brought up A) Jenna is one of the more well adjusted former porn stars in the industry (which granted is like saying “you’re the sanest person in this insane asylum” I know, but still) since she was able to move on with millions of dollars and not fall into the trap of sticking around so long you’re stuck doing MILF porns for low pay in your 40s and didn’t blow all of her money on drugs like most porn stars, so saying because of her former occupation means she’s automatically provoking crazy fights is unfair with no facts. and B) It didn’t matter if she slapped him or called him names, a man (especially a professional fighter for God’s sake) shouldn’t hit a woman. Apparently that’s viewed as an insane opinion amongst sexually frustrated manchildren that haven’t had many dealings with women that populate MMA forums. And I expected misogyny but was stunned at how bad it was since in any other walk of life everybody would be saying what I was saying.

          But I never said “Tito is definitely guilty”. In fact I distinctly remember saying “if he did this.” I was speaking hypothetically that since the reports came out he was taken into custody because police claimed she had a mark on her (which turned out to be a handprint on her arm or something, but that didn’t come out for at least a day later) that an attitude that a few posters had of “oh well, she deserved it” was sickening. And I won’t apologize for that. Excuse my morality.

          Plus, from what I remember, the argument didn’t even really revolve around Tito for very long. It quickly turned into “domestic violence in general” where some posters were coming up with bizarre scenarios like “What if it turned out she was a trained ninja and also had an AK-47, I think it would be OK to hit her then” and it turned into such a trainwreck Zach locked it.

          Your ignorance astounds me.

          Stop stealing my lines.

        • edub says:

          Case in point that your keeping this argument going….

  4. Jonathan says:

    So what is Lloyd Irvin’s story? I have never heard of him before.

  5. rainrider says:

    When BJJ blue prints came out, he was also bragging about his black belt in Sambo. It sounded like “I earned PHD from Princeton and I’m a certified Hawaiian BBQ enthusiast.” (Sambo is a wonderful sport and I think it’s more effective than Judo. But outside the 13 states on east coast, they don’t use belt ranking system. )

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