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Fedor would have long odds to overcome to beat Brock Lesnar
By Zach Arnold | July 3, 2010
Say what you will about Antonio Inoki, but at least he did have the right idea when he tried to recruit Brock Lesnar and make him into his monster IWGP champion. Of course, you can’t control a wild boar, which is what Brock is. A living, breathing, humanized wild boar who has such amazing power. What human do you know in his kind of physical condition that can withstand the punishment he took initially and then just spring right back up and finish off an opponent like that?
- Jonathan Snowden: Best in the world? Brock Lesnar and Shane Carwin fail to impress at UFC 116
- Jamie Penick: Brock Lesnar proved his doubters wrong
- Steve Cofield: Lesnar shows off new impressive elements in each fight he is in
- Fightlinker: A major main event that lived up to the hype
It’s easy to overreact, but I don’t see how someone like Cain Velasquez or Fedor could beat the guy. Velasquez would need to outbox him to make it work. Fedor would need to use speed to do it. However, the odds of either man beating Lesnar would be long. Perhaps Cain could stop more takedown attempts than Shane, but it’s hard to see how you do that with someone that massively strong and big.
What I’m most intrigued by is what happens when Brock starts running through the other heavyweights in UFC. Junior dos Santos poses a threat. If Lesnar beats him, then really Fedor would be the one guy on the outside-looking-in who people would want to see him take on Brock. I feel after tonight’s performance from Brock that Fedor in the UFC against this guy would be the most amazing spectacle we’ve ever seen.
A guy that size who gets better as a fight goes longer? Holy %&$*. Even when you throw everything at Brock early on and he takes a 10-8 round, he just comes back and laughs in your face.
The discussion about who’s the #1 Heavyweight in the world ended tonight, thankfully.
Addendum: The anger about Brock winning is amazing. Give the guy credit for what he did. And for those angry that I mentioned Fedor, I mentioned him in the context of seeing a guy who was #1 last week loss and seeing the new #1 and how they would match up. Relax. How about giving Brock some credit for what he did?
Topics: Media, MMA, UFC, Zach Arnold | 73 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |
He didn’t look like he got better. He looked like he fought a guy who spent his load in the first 3 minutes. I can’t say I’m that surprised about that.
Lots of stand and bang tonight in fights that people would have laughed at if they were on Strikeforce main cards. I’m sure people loved it.
The hyperbole and marking out here and on Bloodyelbow is pretty comical if you ask me. This was a much-needed experience for Lesnar, but he was made to look as human as all the other HWs at the top. He had a Sapp-like reaction to getting hit on his feet, which was a bit worrying. I give Lesnar credit for turning it around, but Carwin looked, uh, VERY human to say the least. It always happens eventually to these wrecking ball type prospects. I think Cain Velasquez will have a great chance given what I saw tonight.
The Strikeforce comparison is apt. When UFC and WEC put on these fringe contender/veteran/feature fighter bouts that are booked more for entertainment value than anything, it is a testament to how they’re unparalleled in the business. When Strikeforce does it, it is “just for fun”. Leben is basically UFC’s Vegas version of Cung Le.
Been a while since I’ve been here but I had to stop in because of all the intense marking out by noob fans on BE. Fedor would do the same thing to Brock Lesnar that he did to another 280 lb guy. Destroy him in 36 seconds. Lesnar is TERRIFIED of getting punched and Carwin never even hit him clean. The uppercut that got him best was thrown off-balance and on the wrong foot. Anybody that’s ever watched more than a couple boxing matches could tell you that there was really no power behind it because it was an arm punch. Carwin has devastating power in his right cross because his technique is solid there. That uppercut was just ugly and I’d bet money I could have survived it despite being hurt and shocked. Lesnar’s wrestling also looks like its been severely overstated as his years in fake wrestling likely deteriorated it. Carwin stuffed all his takedowns easily before he gassed and likely would have knocked Brock stiff if he didn’t follow him to the ground.
Here are all the guys that have a great chance to beat Brock outside ZUFFA
Fedor
Werdum
AO
Josh Barnett
These guys have a chance:
-Jr. Silva.
-Brett Rogers
-AA if he can use his quickness and keep the fight standing for the first round. Lesnar can’t punch for sh*! so we don’t have to worry about his chinny chin chin which is his biggest weakness and Brock is so scared to get hit the first time AA lands a combo he’ll turtle and AA won’t gas himself out.
-A prime Kharitonov could absolutely eat Lesnar… Sadly I doubt we’ll ever see that again.
The guys in ZUFFA that could do it.
-Carwin in a rematch if he doesn’t gas himself.
-Cain because its pretty obvious at this point Lesnar’s wrestling isn’t unstoppable. Carwin stuffed his first 3 shots easily and Randy was controlling him too.
-Dos Santos because if Brock doesn’t instantly take him down. Dos Santos will shred his standup within seconds. Right cross, left hook, right uppercut, (all thrown on balance), lights out, good night, get the stretcher. While Carwin might have better 1 punch power Dos Santos’ superior technique allows him to throw shots nearly as powerful but in combination.
Last but not least – Roy Nelson. Good TD defense, great jiu-jitsu, power in his hands. Roy on a style matchup alone has a chance.
Prime Mirko would have ANNIHILATED Lesnar.
this post is hilarious
“EVERY HEAVYWEIGHT I’VE EVER ENJOYED WATCHING FIGHT COULD BEAT BROCK!” Kharitonov? A HW who was middling at best 5 years ago? You’re out of your damned mind
Kharitonov’s hands are 10X better than Carwin’s and he carries a ton of power too. Lesnar would likely be knocked out or submitted by PRIME Sergei. Not the one that has fought twice in 2 1/2 years and spends his days swimming in vodka.
I don’t think it helped that Carwin gassed himself out looking for the finish in the first round, but Lesnar really showed toughness being able to survive the onslaught and used what he does best to win the fight.
Can’t agree with that at all, Zach. I thought that was the worst display of skill in a title fight in many years. Just downright pathetic. I think Cain will dominate Brock, and Fedor would finish him in about a minute.
I agree with the first part.
I’m I living in some bizarro world here Zach?, because the idea that you would even bring up Fedor after his auro of invincibility was destroyed by Werdum in baffling.
Fedor is irrelevant to who the best HW in the world is, the myth is dead he isn’t a draw and no one outside a few still delusional fanboys would care about seeing him in the UFC.
It’s Brock Lesnar’s time, it’s the stacked UFC HW divisions time now the old Pride guard is dead we saw the new era of HW’s in action tonight.
Come on now I like you Zach but after Fedor lost, you seem to have lost your swagger with some of these articles. Time to put the Fedor stuff to the side and talk about who and what really matters and that’s Brock Lesnar and the UFC HW division.
EJ,
You are such a UFC mark that is almost unbelievable. Look at the stuff that you are saying? Fedor’s name sends you into a tirade? I understand that you like the UFC. But why hate everyone and everything else? You are in the same league as 45 Huddle.
How does Fedor not matter? He lost one fight via getting caught (and being stupid). And he’s still surely top four in the division (along with Cain, Werdum, and Lesnar). And you say only the UFC heavyweights matter……there are only TWO guys that are in the running for a title shot(Cain and JDS), and none other on the horizon for a while (maybe Roy Nelson sometime next year). And of the three the only one that’s a true threat (on paper) would be JDS. UFC’s heavyweight division is better than Strikeforce’s, no doubt, but not THAT much better. If you look at most rankings there are 6 UFC fighters in the top ten, and four non-UFC. Mir and Noguiera are probably on their way out (especially Big Nog. I love Big Nog but his best days are WAY behind him).
And I disagree with Zach that the only non-UFC heavyweight that would be intriguing against Lesnar would be Fedor. A fight against Overeem would be great to see. Werdum too if he racks up some more good wins. And how is Shane Carwin the new era of heavyweights? He’s 35 and has bad cardio. He’s great but I don’t think he will be a top heavyweight for too long. Cain and JDS are definitely of the new era, but Carwin? Maybe now, but not for long.
I like Fedor plenty, but he’s probably not going to be in the UFC soon and is irrelevant to the promotional title picture there.
If Lesnar is going to get through the other top heavyweights, he’s gonna earn being the top guy in the sport the hard way – kinda like how Lennox Lewis built up piles of respect after the loss to McCall and eventually became considered the equal of Holyfield.
KARELIN would defeat Brock Lesnar. Brock looked horible tonight, Carwin had his way with him until he made a mistake. Fedor would still be the favorite if they ever fight.
EJ did you just say FEDOR is irrelevant??? Think before you speak, you make your self look like an idiot. If 1 Loss is all it takes to be irrelevant then Carwin is garbage now, and Brock obviously has a loss so he’s garbage too I guess according to your logic.
Brock showed toughness and patience. I think Fedor will never see the inside Of the ufc cage. CAIN WILL HANDLE BROCK!??ARE U EFFING SERIOUS??? Somebody’s had waaaaay too much grown up juice tonight!!
Brock weathered the storm n finished up. Good job to him.
“Weathering the storm” in this case meant “not being completely gassed at the end of the first round.”
Brock got dropped, he is not some mythical invincible beast. After tonight I would bet on JDS KOing him and can easily see Fedor doing the same. Cain can win a tactical fight too on their feet.
Werdum is still #1.
But I am a Brock fan and credit to him, and I actually thought that the fights on the PPV were very entertaining. I can’t stand sloppy brawlers like Bonnar and Leben but they had dramatic comebacks. Great submissions too.
If Carwin can’t knock out Brock, JDS cant, Cain cant. I say he stays champion for a few good fights till a new face comes in, and I think Brock is going to change the way he carries his-self after the poor performance. He is a very rare human being, being that big and that strong, and having heart to stay in the match. Brock deserves this win and I’m telling u he will come back even better.
You’re… simply
retarded.Its hard to knock somebody out when your punches are thrown off balance and not connecting. JDS absolutely can knock Brock out. As could Fedor, Manhoef, Mirko or anybody else that can really punch in combination or throw a HK. Its just a matter of something landed. Carwin didn’t land anything of significance and Brock still turtled. He’s been exposed as being Bob Sappish when it comes to getting hit. Deal with it.And for the record Zach, I thought your article was a tad over-zealous. Maybe you were over-reacting a bit. Lesnar as this awesome, real-life boar of a man who kills and destroys? Maybe…..or maybe it had ALOT to do with the fact that Carwin had ZERO gas tank, at least according to all of the reports that I have read.
Hahahaha….Cain is gonna rape Brock. JDS would KO him, Overeem would submit him, and Fedor would humble him.
Good job Zach.
Brock is current #1, but Fedor will be #1 of all-time.
Decent night of fights, but yeah Brock looked pretty bad. He is tough, and I give him a TON of credit, but yeah he looked pretty bad. And Carwin has pretty awful cardio. I know it was mostly because he threw too many punches and punched himself out, but he still gassed too early even for throwing punches in bunches.
And good to see Bonnar saved his job with UFC, but he probably should have gotten cut a fight ago. Oh well, we’ll see how he does in the future.
Carwin would have won if he had a gas tank above toughman level.
If he watched ufc’s top guys lesner vs Carwin in their semi-pro outing, Fedor would most likely be kicking himself for not signing to fight them earlier in their career.
Lesnar folded like Belfort against Couture/Fedor would finish
Carwin was spent after 5 minutes of GnP/Fedor would continue for a couple more rounds
Neither fighter showed much, well lesnar showed he’s been taking crab lessons from George Foreman
Who’s saying he shouldn’t take credit for winning? He did. But the guy lost round 1 10-8 and was getting his head caved in standing and on the ground. He didn’t win because he was some incredibly skilled heavyweight who used his guile to survive. He won because the guy hitting him had less of a gas tank than most Toughman competitors. His athleticism carried the day when technique had effectively failed him.
If Lesnar is gonna beat Cain Velasquez, he can’t do what he did tonight. He has to shoot immediately. Same with any other heavyweight with a pulse. Honestly, if stood there with Fedor and tried to punch with him, Fedor would have taken him out inside the first. That was just stupid planning, but it makes me wonder if he’s questioning his own ability to explode with the double. When he did get it , it was after Carwin was wiped out.
This is what I mean and why I can’t take you people seriosly, Fedor gets busted up and tossed around by Rogers and he shows toughness and skill in beating him. Brock gets rocked and survives and onslaught that would have put away any other HW and he is lucky and Carwin sucks.
Seriosly, it’s over no matter how you want to spin it or rationalize it the myth is dead. Fedor only had any relevance as long as people like you trotted him being “undefeated” once he got tapped in the first all of that was done.
The only thing that matters now is Brock Lesnar and the shark tank that is the UFC HW division, people can try as hard as they want to find the negative out of tonight but you won’t succeed.
We saw a great fight and 2 guys who are elite HW’s, hell the rematch will blow away any other ppv aside from UFC 100. This was a great night and instead of praising both men for delivering a true epic HW showdown we get this crap it’s not wonder why Dana thinks to little of the internet when you prove him right with this crap.
Who says Carwin sucks? The dude obviously gassed out in under 3 minutes. Look at the tape. Its apparent to everyone except, perhaps, you.
If they don’t do a rematch, what about the NARRATIVE GUYZ? Somehow, I’m willing to bet there isn’t one.
“Tossed around”???? Are you serious? First of all Fedor took Rogers down, he was in side mount and attempted a Kimura and gave up his base, Rogers used that to reverse the position. That is not called being tossed around.
Second of all Brock won just as much as Carwin lost. Carwin did gas out no questions about that. He gassed out in the 3rd minute while being in mount punching Lesnar. How I don’t know but he did.
Third, Fedors fight with Rogers showed skill, not just raw power as displayed by Lesnar.
And Brock showed no skill with the quick takedown and working for the submission?, see this is the kind of bs i’m talking about.
The fact is Carwin would have finished anyother HW in that fight, it’s a credit to Brock that he survived that onslaught not a bad thing.
Also while Carwin needs to work on his conditioning he had the right idea in trying to end the fight he knows how much power he has and goes have never been able to survive that.
If you guys didn’t get your money’s worth in this fight then you’re not an mma fan, this was as exciting a card as there has been all year. Not to mention we had a great ME in the first true super HW fight there has been in years seriously what is there to complain about unless you’re just looking to hate like Snowden and others.
The modicum of skill required to take someone down who is totally exhausted and then pass their guard and apply a side choke in the sport of MMA is not exactly black belt level stuff.
Right now you are worse than the “Fedor
nuthuggers” and the “UFC haterz”. Yes, there were HUGE differences between Fedor/Rogers and Lesnar/Carwin. Fedor was getting busted up really badly, but he weathered the storm IN THE FIRST ROUND and came back in the first round. Lesnar was getting his head caved in in the first round, did nothing but turtle up, while Carwin gassed worse than the typical Toughman fighter. Then Lesnar capitalized in the second round AFTER Carwin was finished. Yes he did get lucky. And NO ONE here is saying that Fedor is an invincible monster. NO ONE. And yes Lesnar is tough as hell, and a damn good fighter, but it’s true; he doesn’t like getting hit. He’s like Bob Sapp in that regard. There isn’t really anything you can do about it. You can’t really learn to not like getting hit. Carwin is good, but (besides power) he showed NOTHING on why he is an elite heavyweight. Hell, he almost lost to Gabriel Gonzaga a while back, and knocked him out with a huge punch.Put it in perspective…..would Carwin do well if he was below heavyweight? No he wouldn’t. He would be another Marcus Davis or Chris Leben. Hell, worse than those guys, but with better power. Now you are showing me why I shouldn’t take YOU seriously EJ……you put NO logic or reason in these posts of yours. You loved the event, great. That’s fine. But there is NO reason to bring up Fedor like you did, and no reason to bash us because, God forbid, we want our 45 dollar purchases to have a little more punch to them. It was a DECENT card. No more, no less. Plain and simple.
Did you leave the room with a minute left in the first round? Because I distinctly remember Lesnar escaping, pinning Carwin up against the fence, and finishing the round slamming knees into Shane’s stomach and thighs.
The Lesnar/Carwin fight showed that Lesnar has a great chin and amazing heart. Why people want to hate on him is easy to see why.
Lesnar is the #1 Heavyweight in the world. Will he stay like that? Who knows. But today he is. And people will hate on him no matter what.
I enjoyed the show a lot. It was a piece of sh!t card on paper but it was exciting. Still don’t want to see those sort of cards all the time. The next 3 UFC shows on paper are much better.
#1 WERDUM
#2 FEDOR
#3 LESNAR
Out of argument sake where would Junior dos Santos rank since he beat Werdum? Knocked him out if I recall.
When JDS knocked out Werdum, Werdum was on the outskirts of the Top 10. That is where JDS entered the ranks, and that’s where he remains, because since then JDS has not faced anyone of Top 10 caliber.
Who is hating on him? Not I. I already lauded him for being able to take a beating. I am just speaking the truth; Lesnar only won because Carwin got gassed and because Lesnar can take a good punch. No more, no less. Want proof? Check out Lesnar’s takedown on Carwin in the second round. VERY sloppy, and most fighters would have stuffed that easily in the SECOND ROUND because most fighters wouldn’t get gassed that easily. I bet Carwin could have stuffed it easily. It was a fun fight, but really, let’s not pretend it was more than that.
Lesnar won because he has a huge heart and granite chin and a mental toughness that isn’t even seen in all time greats like GSP and Silva.
It was more then just Carwin gassing.
It’s hard to say he has a huge heart when he was plainly terrified of being hit and reacted like Bob Sapp when he was. Basically, Carwin gassed and he didn’t. Is that heart?
I like Brock, and I expected him to dominate the fight. But that was just a terrible performance.
He is getting hated on.
Alan treats everything as second rate, as he’s either bipolar or fool of himself.
Hlamajahndiuoada is just a douchebag who can’t get over the fact his hero won.
Leben took out a guy who would be in SF’s top 3 MWs before tonight.
Lesnar took a beating from probably the most powerful HW in the world right now and submitted him in the next round. The look on Carwin’s face was priceless when he walked to the corner after throwing probably 100 punches in the first round, and Lesnar was still there. All the fans had a great night as fights lived up to hype.
But still whiners wanna cry. Get a life people…and give Brock Lesnar his due.
Did Carwin gas out in 3 minutes or not? This is not to say he’s not a dangerous fighter. He is, otherwise someone would have extended him two rounds prior. But that kind of performance is shameful.
how can you not be impressed with brock lesnar after what he did tonight! come on, thats was nothing short of amazing. this coming from someone who didnt really believe brock could make it in the ufc. compare what he did to big nog against various opponents. take sylvia and big nog, sylvia was pounding on him for a good solid 10minutes before big nog turned it around and won. nog against sapp, crocop,the 3rd herring fight..all the same thing. in light of these performances, nogueira is often considered to be an extraordinary fighter with amazing abilities. brock lesnar did pretty much the same thing tonight. how can you then go ahead and say that brock lesnar pretty much sucks while nog is amazing is beyond me. brock lesnar definately has room for improvement as far as that goes but even at this stage of his career, where he’s just scratched the surface of what he can do, he’s been nothing short of spectacular. Wurrd.
So, I was wrong. I thought it’d take years for a UFC heavyweight to overtake Fedor’s spot at the top of the division. It took 1 week. Even the hardcore internet fans have been converted.
The funny/scary thing about Brock is that in his next two fights against Cain and JDS, one of his advantages will be “better BJJ”. I thought neutralizing Mir’s BJJ was impressive, little did I imagine Brock would be locking on arm triangles a year later.
I give credit to Lesnar for not passing out an closing the deal obviously, but he lost that fight on all levels until Carwin gassed.
“Better BJJ” is an awfully broad statement.
“Brock showed toughness and patience.”
Patience? LOL I guess getting your head caved in is now being patient. If roles are reversed, and its Brock throwing those bombs in the first on the ground, the fight gets stopped, no doubt. Zuffa & Lesnar going to the NSAC to make sure Maz didn’t ref the fight intimidates officials. Don’t think for a second that getting barred from big fights wasn’t in the back of Rothenthal’s head when he was thinking about stopping that.
“The funny/scary thing about Brock is that in his next two fights against Cain and JDS, one of his advantages will be “better BJJ”. I thought neutralizing Mir’s BJJ was impressive, little did I imagine Brock would be locking on arm triangles a year later.”
First off, how do you know Brock’s BJJ is better? Cuz he beat a guy who had zero gas tank in rd 2? And do you think arm triangles are some high level submission? Even Mark Coleman has pulled off one in his career.
Again, I agree with 45 Huddle.
That is why Brock won.
That said, are all the posters on here prepared to say Carwin is more accurate than Fedor? Is faster than Fedor? Would pick Carwin over Fedor?
I don’t agree with Zach that this was the crowning of the “undisputed” at all. In fact, I saw this as a muddying of the waters entirely. JDS and Cain may be the top 2 in the UFC, aside from Werdum and Fedor.
Is anybody honestly surprised when you really sit down to think about it? Carwin is a one-rounder who had to go two rounds for the first time. Yeah, kudos to Brock for not folding like people may have expected since he has a reputation of being mentally weak due to his job-hopping. But if he fought a guy with a larger gas tank, he’d be screwed. It’s not like he pulled some come from behind Hail Mary strike out of nowhere to turn the fight or something. He simply held on until Carwin gassed and had his way with a guy who was absolutely spent. This isn’t impressive. If Velasquez can go even 10 minutes without gassing he beats Brock.
Unless Cain borrows Carwin’s punching power his gas tank won’t help him, this is the thing a lot of people are missing out on Carwin just isn’t another HW he’s got the hardest hands in the division. And Brock took his best shots and still wasn’t stopped, any other HW would have been done. Like I said people can make every excuse and justification the want but facts speak for themselves Brock showed why he’s the man right now everything else is just reaching.
But that’s the thing. There is no tougher 1 round fight in MMA then fighting Shane Carwin. And Lesnar was able to survive what will easily be the toughest round of his fighting career. And when the 2nd roud started, he was like Randy Couture out there…. As in he wasn’t mentally broken 1 bit. That is an amazing feat.
Look again at what you are writing here 45 Huddle. Nothing tougher than a one round fight? Last I checked, this is a sport, not toughman. And you say that he wasn’t mentally broke and how amazing that is? I think it had WAY more to do with the fact that his opponent had no gas tank and gassed out worse than that 800lb guy from Mexico.
How does Carwin epically gassing out translate to Brock having uber heart?
Post your thoughts on Cain Velasquez vs Brock Lesnar in the post right above this one:
http://www.fightopinion.com/2010/07/04/dana-white-ufc-116
Lesnar took a shot from Carwin covered up and literally ran away from him. Lesnar’s stand up looked pretty pathetic and considering Carwin handled Lesnar’s take down in the first, I’m not sure what happens if Carwin doesn’t blow his load throwing 80 punches in the first.
Lesnar looked human and his stand up leaves a lot to be desired. I know you’re a pro wrestling geek but this fight doesn’t warrant taking Lesnar
nuthuggingto the level of him being some sort of nearly invincible monster.The haters on here are hilarious. After Lesnar weathering a straight up shellacking that would have put any heavyweight out, their fragile psyche couldn’t handle what had just transpired.
After witnessing what happened, they can either choose the sensible or the nonsensical choice:
Lesnar was:
(a) mentally tough for taking the barrage of punches from Carwin and came back or
(b) mentally weak for covering up from punches from a guy who’s known to KO people in one or two punches
(a) Carwin gassed because he got the life strangled out of him or
(b) Lesnar won only because Carwin gassed
(a) Lesnar showed amazing skill and heart for pulling off a submission after transitioning from half, to full, to side mount
(b) It took no skills to submit a 12-0 NCAA division II champ who looked unstoppable until now
Haters will always pick b because then their world view would still be intact. A place where Fedor reign supreme and Lesnar is a WWE hack. To even compare Lesnar with Bob Sapp is so beyond the pale. MMA fans watch a fight and change their world view to fit reality. Fanboys watch a fight and change reality to fit their worldview.
This is what’s wrong with the MMA culture online right now. People really, genuinely seem to disbelieve in the possibility of legitimate disagreement founded on facts and reason. This guy really thinks that anyone who doesn’t regard Lesnar as highly as he does is a “hater” who just snarls in anger at seeing another great performance from Lesnar and then rushes to the Internet to engage in dishonest propaganda discrediting the guy. There’s no room in his brain to fit the concept that, hey, maybe it was kind of a bad performance, and maybe people saying so like Lesnar and were disappointed.
(a) Carwin gassed because he got the life strangled out of him or
(b) Lesnar won only because Carwin gassed
Er, well, option (a) here surely can’t be right, since Carwin clearly gassed while trying to take Lesnar out, before Lesnar ever applied the choke. (b) is of course debatable, but (a) is flat-out wrong.
Looking at the other ones, both options could be correct, though of course the b’s are all phrased in a very loaded way. For example, Brock’s cowering away from Carwin’s punches show a guy who has not trained as a striker for most of his life and does not have either natural toughness or the experience of having taken and avoided punches for a long time. It seems weird, then, to take about him having great heart. But at the same time, it was good that he came out in Round 2 with a clear head and took advantage of Carwin being completely spent. If he were a young HW coming up the ranks, you’d say he showed that he’s good prospect, but that he still needs a bit of work. But, unfortunately, he’s judged by the standards of a top fighter, and he just doesn’t meet those standards.
I was addressing specifically the out of breath interview with Joe Rogan that people cited as proof that Carwin gassed.
Yes, Carwin was more winded after throwing everything at Lesnar. Lesnar was also undoubtedly winded from taking a pounding from Carwin. Being tired is not the same as gassing. Every fighter tire out when they go all out, especially with guys at 265+ pounds.
Let’s not forget that Carwin was also an NCAA wrestling champ. Most NCAA wrestling champs tend to have a pretty good gas tank. No fighters can be as fresh after a grueling 5 minute of fighting. Was Carwin more tired? Yes, but so was Lesnar. The difference was that Lesnar fought was able to defend from the bottom and took control when he was on top. Carwin didn’t.
One could give credit to Lesnar for the win or discredit his win by citing that his opponent had deficiencies. Nobody in the MMA world figured that Lesnar had submissions skills, including Carwin. The element of surprise helped Lesnar win the fight because everyone, including Carwin was expecting ground and pound. To attribute the win as simply Carwin gassing is a gross oversimplification and an excuse to downplay Lesnar’s win.
I believe that Carwin was a DII champion …. a long time ago? Like he is not fresh out of college or anything. Not sure on this, but he has been out…10-15 years? While college wrestlers probably have great gas tanks, I don’t think you can call Carwin a collegiate wrestler now. He is a heavyweight MMA fighter, and he clearly gassed out hardcore last night.
I was addressing specifically the out of breath interview with Joe Rogan that people cited as proof that Carwin gassed.
I didn’t see anyone mention this, but I’ll take your word for it. I’ve also never really heard of someone being out of breath from a blood choke, but what do I know? Anyway, it didn’t seem to me like anyone should have needed to wait for the post-fight interview to tell that Carwin was totally exhausted.
Carwin was so gassed he had to go to the hospital for hyperventilation.
First & foremost, big props to Lesner for last night’s victory. He did what champions do. Overcame adversity & won.
Good for him & his family.
Now for the inevitable critique however.
Even though Carwin completely dominated him & was one more shot away from winning the fight, Carwin fought like sh*t.
He did everything that a fighter’s NOT supposed to do when they have an opponent in trouble. He threw dozens upon dozens of arm shots with little to no accuracy until his arms became leaden & his lungs were blown out.
And rather than changing his angle or attempting a different sort of blow like,perhaps, a hammerfist to get around Lesner’s guard, Carwin stayed with the same repetetive shots until both his wind & his self confidence were gone.
Also, while Lesner deserves credit for surviving that onslaught as it was, if one watches a replay of the fight, I don’t think that Carwin ever REALLY landed cleanly on him.
Most, if not all of those punches landed were of the heavy handed, “cuffing” variety rather than of the concussive, head snapping sort on the jaw or chin.
So, while Lesner displayed a good ability to soak up punishment & come back, it’s not like he actually got blasted with Carwin’s very best.
All that said, Lesner proved that he belongs at the top of the heap in the UFC heavyweight devision.
Though I can’t wait to see how he handles a much younger, quicker, more versitile challenger in Cain or a more dangerous, well rounded striker in JDS.
Well said.
Fair crtiicizim and credit given. And there was plenty of both to go around.
Overall, I really enjoyed the whole card.
For those who didn’t, fair enough, they are entitled to their opinion, and rightfully so.
But I’m really looking forward to Velasquez ve Lesnar.
Both Carwin and Lesnar are considerably stonger then Veasques ( and THAT is saying something ), but Velasquez, from what I have seen has better cardio and is more well rounded then either of them.
Addressing the title of this thread :
Obviously just because Fedor lost last week & Brock won last night doesn’t mean that Lesner automatically beats Fedor. That line of thought is just silly.
Maybe Lesner’s size & strength would overwhelm Fedor. That’s entirely possible.
But, were Fedor able to drop him like Carwin did last night Fedor almost certainly wouldn’t have just went for the ground & pound. he’d have likely snatched one of those legs that Lesner left out there while on his back & latched on a patented Sambo leg lock.
And the idea beyond this thread title is, IMO, just silly.
Sure, Lesner could just overwhlem fedor with his size & strength & win were the two of them to meet. But, obviously just because Fedor lost last week & Brock won last night doesn’t mean that Lesner would automatically win such a match up.
One example being, that if fedor dropped Lesner on his back like Carwin did, it’s quite likely that he wouldn’t have just gone in for the ground & pound. He very well may have snatched up one of those long legs that Lesner left laying out there & applied a Sambo leg lock to see what would happen.
Or he might jump right into a triangle choke?
obviously just because Fedor lost last week & Brock won last night doesn’t mean that Lesner would automatically win such a match up.
One example being, that if fedor dropped Lesner on his back like Carwin did, it’s quite likely that he wouldn’t have just gone in for the ground & pound. He very well may have snatched up one of those long legs that Lesner left laying out there & applied a Sambo leg lock to see what would happen.
5 most important reasons why Lesnar beat Carwin
1. Josh Rosenthal did not stop the fight in R1.
2. Lesnar has a better training camp than Cawrin does.
3. Carwin had more to lose in public’s eyes due to his heavy posting on the internet and efforts to LOOK nicer.
4. Lesnar has better endurance and overall athleticism.
and most importantly,
5. Lesnar got beat before and learned from the experience.
So far, the best MMA event of the year is UFC 116.
Bonus really does the tricks, IMO.
Not even close – Bellator’s last show with Joe Warren was better by a long shot.
I may somewhat agree. Bellator’s last show is 5th tier in my list.
Both Warren and Askren showed great performances and Bellator finally started gaining recognition as “the 3rd biggest MMA organization in the world”.
With Lombard, Alvarez, Warren, Askren, Osugiren on their roster, Bellator can turn into a really big thing in the next few years.
See that’s just a terrible point.
Bellator’s last show wasn’t even as good as the one headlined by Huerta vs. Curran…