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Dave Meltzer: Fedor’s appeal is that he’s the anti-Brock Lesnar
By Zach Arnold | June 26, 2010
A passage from Friday night’s Observer radio show that has several topics that people argue online about all rolled into one.
I’ll focus on one part of the passage that stuck out the most to me and it has nothing to do with Fedor individually but rather about Strikeforce as a promotion. When Scott Coker did his interview earlier in the week with Josh Gross for SI radio, Coker said that the reason he had the Fedor/Werdum fight in San Jose is because he wanted to reward the fans that had supported the promotion for so long as its home base with a big-level fight. Juxtapose this with what Scott Coker keeps saying in interview after interview, where he says the organization is no longer a regional promotion but rather a national promotion.
Keep that in mind when you read what Dave has to say about how ticket sales are going for the event at HP Pavilion. He says the building will be packed but that a large portion of the audience will be out-of-towners as opposed to locals. I’ve heard Dave say the same thing about Strikeforce in the area since they “went national,” that the locals aren’t showing up in big numbers and that the locals view the product now more or less as a national deal as opposed to something they have an attachment to.
A couple of points playing off of that…
- Cung Le gets booked because Cung Le is supposed to draw the locals. If he’s not drawing a big amount of local fans any more, that’s a warning sign. Cung was one of Scott’s big draws in the past for San shou fights.
- I’m going to use a pro-wrestling analogy here, so bear with me or else skip this point and go to full-page mode. Listening to Dave describe how the Bay Area market has changed since Strikeforce went ‘national,’ it reminds me so much of what was said in the Carolinas in the 80s when Jim Crockett Promotions decided to get into a war with Vince McMahon. They started running shows in different towns and didn’t have the infrastructure to do it. In one of the craziest moves ever, they ran a show at the Nassau Coliseum in Uniondale, New York and drew about 5,000 in McMahon’s backyard. The promotion ended up bleeding cash and they got out in time for Ted Turner to do the NWA/WCW alignment. Crockett saw the locals start to fade away because the locals viewed the promotion as leaving them behind. That’s the danger that Strikeforce faces here if they fail on a national level — it’s going to be hard to ever bring back those local fans that had supported the company in the first place.
There’s the set-up for Friday’s radio passage:
BRYAN ALVAREZ: “You had a chance to chat with Mr. Emelianenko a couple of days ago and you mentioned to me that he’s unlike any other fighter you’ve ever spoken to.”
DAVE MELTZER: “Well, he’s just so quiet. And he’s not bombastic, I mean, there’s quiet fighters but not this kind of quiet. I mean he’s jsut different and I mean if you saw the same thing that you know he was on HDNet [Friday] at the weigh-ins and everything and you know they asked him if he cared about title belts and championships and absolutely doesn’t care at all. And you know I mean it’s just so weird that the guy is so good at what he does because most guys who are so good at what they do are so motivated by being regarded as the best and he doesn’t seem to care. He doesn’t care about his legacy, doesn’t care what people think about him, it’s like he’s out there and his job to win his fights so he just goes out there and wins his fights. It’s a really, you know, I call him the anti-Lesnar. He’s exactly in every single way the opposite of Brock Lesnar. That’s not, you know, I don’t know if it’s necessarily good or bad, I mean it just gives him a different mystique. I mean, I think the mystique does him good as far as you know people care about him and people know him, I mean he’s not… He’s a decent drawing card, and we’ll find out how big [Saturday] when the ratings come in if he’s as big as Gina (Carano). I don’t know, I don’t… I don’t sense as much interest as in Carano/Cyborg, but local ticket sales are ahead of the pace. You know, they’re going to have over 15,000, maybe 17,000 or 18,000. It’s going to be one of the biggest crowds if not the second biggest crowd that they’ve ever done for MMA in this city so obviously there’s interest. You know a lot of interest is from people who are not from the city. Local interest, no, not nearly as big as actually most of the shows. Well, I say most, but when you have the real big ones that Shamrock headlined, no, local interest is not that level, anywhere close, but there’s a lot of people coming from all over the country because Fedor’s fighting and that’s a rare thing. But yeah he’s… you know, he doesn’t seem to enjoy you know doing interviews and publicity, kind of also it’s part of his job.”
BRYAN ALVAREZ: “So, I guess the question is, I’m not doubting you, I’m just asking teh question. So you believe him in the sense that you didn’t…”
DAVE MELTZER: “Oh, that. Well, why wouldn’t you believe him?”
BRYAN ALVAREZ: “That’s what I”m asking. You didn’t read this as just a guy who you know he tells people that he doesn’t care and this and that but deep inside he’s got that burning desire. You read it as, he’s a guy that this really is his job and he really doesn’t care all that much.”
DAVE MELTZER: “I think that’s pretty obvious. You know, I mean he’s shielded from things like that. I think that he cares about his future income and you know they’ve got him you know his handlers have got him you know in a certain mindset but to hmi I mean… if he lost, I think he would consider it like he lost a sporting event and it wouldn’t be that big of a deal. When Cung Le lost, the guy you know, it was a horrible thing when Cung Le lost for Cung Le, you know in that last fight and he told me that himself. If Fedor loses, I think it’s like, oh, OK, I lost. Doesn’t happen every day but I don’t sense you know I don’t see him like Lesnar or any of these others guys that are you know I mean it’s like it defines them. I don’t think this defines him to himself.”
BRYAN ALVAREZ: “So, basically, when we have and we hear about all these issues regarding UFC and who his management wants him to fight and this and that, this is all coming down to his management and he could not possibly…”
DAVE MELTZER: “I’ve never believed for a second that he’s scared of any one. I don’t believe it. His management’s scared to death of him losing. You know, no question, because he’s the meal ticket. If he loses, I mean his mystique is great because he doesn’t lose. If he loses, I mean his value goes way down. If he loses this fight to Werdum, you know, he goes from being offered millions of dollars by UFC to you know probably being laughed at by UFC, seriously, they might I mean they might still take him for something but you know it ain’t going to be a multimillion offer if he loses. He’s got to win the fight for his management. For himself, you know, I think he just wants to be taken care of and you know have a decent financial future and everything and that’s just kind of like the sports he’s in and be a representative for Sambo you know which I think is a sport he really likes and I don’t think he dislikes this sport at all. I think he likes it a lot. He said that, you know, that you know he considers this you know like a chess match and all that as far as the sport goes. But as far as a guy, he’s different from everybody else as far as you know that aspect of you know just not you know so low-key and you know just to himself and I mean just, he’s not a guy that comes off to me like he you know like he wants to be a star. Whereas almost all the rest of the fighters you know they want to be stars and even Brock wants to be a star, he just doesn’t want the hassle of being a star, you know what I mean.”
BRYAN ALVAREZ: “Sure. He wants the benefits but not the negatives.”
DAVE MELTZER: “You know Fedor ain’t going to be like a guy like if they asked, if he was in the UFC and they asked you know him to do the three week thing and it was the right thing for business, I don’t think he wants a million people around him but he ain’t going to say no whereas Brock, you know, he just, he did say no! You know he asked and he just felt that you know he would probably you know whether it’d be a day or two days or three days in, he should just get sick of those people around him and he’d want them to leave and you know he didn’t want to put the you know and Dana want that thing to happen and that’s why you know the fight with Carwin hasn’t gotten you know the hype up to this point as it could have, which is not to say it won’t do very well. It’s going to do very well any way. It could have done, I mean I guess we’ll wait a week and see but my feeling is that it probably could have done better…”
Topics: Media, MMA, StrikeForce, UFC, Zach Arnold | 45 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |
Its really hard to understand the transcript when “you know” is used after every other word.
You know you might have a point here.
I mean, you know that you know he might have a point.
I mean, you know what I mean?
I don’t think Fedor’s appeal has anything to do with not acting like Brock Lesnar. It has to do with people who watched his rise in PRIDE and those who didn’t. It’s like in football. People who watched in the 80s will tell you that Joe Montana was one of the all-time great Quarterbacks and hold him above practically everybody else. But to those that didn’t, he’s just another guy they’ve seen on NFL Films clip shows throw some good passes but then wonder why his game is somewhat different than what is done today. And while they’re nuthugging the Peyton Manning’s and Tom Brady’s of today, one day their kids are going to give them the “Yeah, I guess they were OK, but not as good as the guys today.” treatment.
Yes, there’s people who really hate Brock’s posturing influenced from his WWE days, but I never have seen anyone write “I like Fedor because he’s a humble sportsman.” It’s “I like Fedor because he’s great.” Despite the belief that “you only rank Fedor #1 to stick it to UFC”.
Mark, it is odd that you say that you’ve never seen anyone write that they like Fedor for being a humble sportsman. That is actually probably the number one reason that I love watching him.
I love that is he isn’t loud and crass, that he isn’t doing staredowns and taunting people, very minimal celebrations, etc… I love that he is showing people that you can be REALLY great at what you and not do all that posturing.
[…] more. His quiet integrity is what makes me a Fedor fan, the qualities that Dave Meltzer references when he dubbed the anti Brock Lesnar” after meeting the man the other […]
One of my problems with Lesnar is that he has not had a career. Brock has all of five fights, only three of which were against top opposition. But people are ready to say that he is the best fighter of all time. He has not done near what Fedor nor has he done for as long.
“But people are ready to say that he is the best fighter of all time.”
No they aren’t. They say, possibly accurately, that he is the best fighter in the world (assuming the best HW is the best fighter in the world).
Please, no more radio transcripts.
Cliffnotes version: “Strikeforce is going to do well at the gate tonight and have a full house, but since that kind of news does not match the tenor of Strikeforce commentary on this site, let’s construe the composition of that audience as a negative and round things off with a chunk of irrelevant pro wrestling babble.”
Seriously Zach, I challenge you to write a post about Strikeforce that gives them a fair shake and highlights some of the things that they have done right. It seems like every SF topic devolves into nitpicking and giving voice to armchair bookers who think they know how things really ought to be done. I get the feeling all this overwhelming negativity is partly a product of how you (and the people you frequently quote) feel you are treated by Strikeforce as media.
Anyone seeing this Cyborg fight? That is poor matchmaking, poor refereeing, poor fighting, and poor cornering by Finney’s corner. Just horrible to watch.
I echo the sentiments of no more radio transcripts. You have recently ramped up your Jordan Breen and Dave Meltzer radio transcripts. If you do it once, it is nice, but you have done it more and more as time goes by, and I am not sure why.
Can you please let me know why you are CONSTANTLY quoting Dave Meltzer and Jordan Breen radio programs on this site? Is it a lack of content or writing on your part? Or are you catering to those that you feel are your audience? Or are you looking for long pieces of type font for the front page?
I don’t like marking out, but HOLY FUCKING SHIT! FABRICIO WERDUM DID IT!!!!!!!!!!!!! First round submission via armbar. Good lord! I am DYING to see the heavyweight consensus rankings now!
Looked like a Triangle-Armbar to me.
Yeah, Werdum had a triangle, and attempted a triangle choke (switching to and fro between armbar in triangle and triangle choke), but it was the armbar that did Fedor in. Werdum just happened to have the triangle. It helped, no doubt.
Well, Fedor isn’t number one anymore, but where does Werdum get ranked? He was at number nine or ten in most rankings, so top three no doubt. Bump Lesnar at one then? Or Werdum? Basically, to be the man, you gotta beat the man (props to Ric Flair) and Fedor was the man, and Werdum beat him. I’m still in shock.
Finally, the Fedor fanboys will shut up.
Lesnar/Carwin is the future….
Overeem looks pissed. His big money fight outthe window. Coker has to be pissed as well.
Dana White must be so happy right now. The Fedor problem has just ended at the hands of a guy who went out of the UFC with a loss to JDS….
Wackiest part was that it wasn’t for Fedor’s WAMMA trinket so this basically is the same as Santiago-Khalidov I…
You’ve won 45 Huddle. Fedor has lost. Now you have control of everything right? So the world will be perfect and lovely for you? I don’t expect to hear you complaining anymore.
Look at Mauro. He looks sad just like he did at the last EliteXC show. He knows this hurts Showtime.
I won? What did I win? I’m just happy that a cancer to MMA…. Fedor and M-1 are no longer a factor. It’s fabulous. Anybody who wasn’t tugging on Fedor’s nuts knew he was ducking the best. Now the real best can be ranked where they deserve.
I could agree with you that M-1 is a cancer to MMA, but Fedor? That’s a little unfair. Ducking the best? I don’t know about that. He didn’t go to UFC where the biggest batch of best heavyweights are, no doubt, but in Strikeforce he fought two of the best (Werdum and Rogers), only missing Overeem and Antonio Silva (either of which he would probably have fought. He will probably fight Silva next anyway). And in Affliction he fought Tim Sylvia and Andrei Arolvski who were top five guys at the time. Really, the only mediocre fight of Fedor’s since PRIDE’s demise was Hong Man Choi, and for a seven-footer plus he isn’t THAT bad. Not really good, but still.
How is Fedor a cancer? By getting paid and fighting well for the past decade?
By being a truly amazing fighter? Remember all the UFC “greats” have losses.
Fedor is a “cancer” (perhaps not the appropriate word) in the respect that he undermines the UFC’s general booking strategy. If you are a UFC champ, you generally fight the most worthy challengers, one after the next.
I am a fan of all top fighters under one umbrella as it is easier to have one entity controlling matchmaking rather than hoping that separate/competing interests can cooperate.
With the linear HW champion out of the organization, any UFC championship match was essentially for a trumped up version of Overeem’s belt.
The problem boiled down to the UFC running their own ladder, with Fedor on top of an adjacent ladder and being a distraction. Now, that Fedor’s non-UFC ladder is gone by virtue of Werdum’s loss to Dos Santos, there is one important HW ladder, and that is the UFC’s.
Obviously, the UFC cannot have every top fighter, but I appreciate the clarity it provides to rankings when fighters are fighting within the same pool. For example, I don’t know who is better, Maynard or Florian, but we will see in a few short months. Are either better than Aoki? Probably but not nearly as definitively as if they had common opposition or directly squared off.
I know this is hard but PLEASE SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!
Fedor is still the GOAT. And he is still favored over anyone, even in rematch w/ Werdum.
And mmamath does not work, Werdum is legit and you know it.
All that said, Fedor was waaay to confident he could power through teh sub like he did against Nog. He really, really needs to be training with more pro-MMA fighters.
I hope he uses this to come back stronger.
Sad to see it end, but oh well.
Always love for Fedor.
I see Fedor fighting Barnett and then retiring, personally.
Who knows? Crocop is a shot mess, and he’s under UFC contract. Given the situation, the UFC may be his best choice. Really. I wouldn’t be shocked at all to see Fedor show up there.
Meanwhile, my prediction is that Werdum/Overeem II is on Showtime later this year and Overeem wins the rematch. That linear title is staying far away from the UFC for awhile, sad as that is.
Unless M-1 & Fedor accept a lowball offer from the UFC (now that he’s ‘useless’ insofar as being the #1 HW in the world), he’s either going to retire or take on someone like Barnett (which would still do OK in Japan for a Gaijin vs. Gaijin fight) and then retire – I have my doubts if he’ll fight Overeem or rematch Werdum.
You never know. Lacking the value as being #1 means that he can’t ask for big money anymore from promotions like Dream and Strikeforce and get it – this is true. But the UFC might be able to get him at a relative bargain. Say, $70,000 a fight. He’s not gonna get much more than that right now to fight under DREAM’s banner. He can occupy a space with guys like Wanderlei Silva and CroCop there. Don’t be surprised if the M-1 demands drop significantly now.
Hang from his nuts much?
The guy ducked real competition for 3 years and then fought the best of the UFC 3 years late. And when real challengers were available he signed with the organization that didn’t have them.
Werdum is a guy who lost to Arlovski. Barely got by Silva. Got knocked into next year by JDS. He was always the poor mans Noguiera. He hasn’t really changed. Fedor just isn’t as good as his fanboys said he was.
Fighters who duck competition are not greats. Fedot is a ducker. Been saying it for years. Now people can see why.
Tell me to shut up, but Fedor just lost. You man crush is over. Or “love” as you put it.
Fedor is not the greatest of all time. That myth was busted today. Finally GSP will get the respect he deserves.
I can’t wait to see where some websites rank Werdum now. It will be comical.
LOL at the “Fedor problem”, MMA is made up of the sorriest sadsack fanbase in all of sports.
#1 Werdum
#2 Fedor
#3 Brock
Junior Dos Santos is #1 by your logic.
Oh man, this was hilarious. Fedor walked into Werdum’s guard and got submitted like he was Chael Sonnen or something.
Some thoughts about the show:
-At least Cung Le won. Gives them someone, right?
-In boxing, good refs know a mismatch and ref accordingly. What I mean is that when someone is taking a lot of punishment, you stop it before they get hurt no matter how game they are. The ref in Cyborg’s fight? Did the opposite. Repulsed by that fight and fast forwarded as much as possible.
-Josh Thomson looked terrible in there with a journeyman. Imagine that being Gray Maynard wrestling him down!
-Okay, back to Fedor. I consider him the linear champion, and so like when GSP lost to Serra, I have to sheepishly give that title to Werdum. Werdum is maybe the 5th best guy in the division on his best day right now, but has garnered the title. Of course, Strikeforce brilliantly brought in Fedor as the challenger, fucking up pretty much everything. Instead, Werdum rides in that weird space that Shogun and Filho did after PRIDE’s GPs. Not really the champion, but sorta is. Also, that part of PRIDE sucked. It also sucks that Strikeforce did the same dumbass thing.
Fuck you 45 Huddle. Fedor is still the greatest of all time. The truth of the matter is that Fedor lost for the first time (second time if you want to count the cut to Kosaka)….and hasn’t your boy Lesnar lost to? In fact, Lesnar has fought all of five times right? I’m sure you are loving this 45 Huddle…things wetn your way and Fedor lost and the the UFC won? Right…that’s what you wanted right? And what the UFC does by forcing out sponsors and everything, that’s good for the fighters and the sport as a whole right?
I know you are happy right now. Live it up. You’re still a piece of trash UFC nuthugger…I’m sure you will run off and drink and be merry that Fedor lost. I just can’t wait until you get your come-uppance.
Unless the UFC suddenly implodes, I’m not quite sure what ‘comeuppance’ can be expected…?
Every great fighter loses. But real fighters don’t duck top competition. Fedor was ducking for years just to hold onto his top status.
And what is wrong with cheering for a loss? People do it in all sports. Doesn’t make me any sort of bad person who deserves something because of it. Only in the mind of a Fedor fanboy does that make sense.
Am I a fan of Fedor. Hell yes. Am I STILL a fan of Fedor? Hell yes. I was a fan of Wand Silva when he was tearing up Pride. When he lost to CroCop and Henderson, did I stop liking him? Hell no. I cheered so fucking loud when he was knocking that Brit’s block off. I am still a fan of Fedor, and whether you think or not, he is the GOAT heavyweight we have ever seen in MMA.
And you are not cheering for a loss. You are cheering because everything that you hate in this world of MMA has just lost a big player in the rep of Fedor. But you’re still a piece of shit, and you’ll stay that way. I do not see how you can say that Fedor was ducking top competition when he fought Brett Rogers and Arlovski and Sylvia and was scheduled to fight Barnett and did fight Verdum.
Please, compare that to what your boy Lesnar has fought?
http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Brock-Lesnar-17522
Right there is who he has fought. Go ahead and compares records and tell me who is the GOAT. Please you piece of fucking shit.
Personally, I don’t think your comments are warranted.
45 is looking forward to an environment where there is one umbrella for elite fighters. His interest in the fighters is secondary to getting the framework for a proper hierarchy put in place.
If the UFC was running UFC and Pride separately, I would be wanting the dissolution of one of them to pool the world’s best. Pride was shut down, but Fedor has carried around the hammer of relevance in HW MMA everywhere (but Bodog). As such, he has split/distracted attention away from the organization that commands it in every other mainstream weight class. It is much better as a fan to get temporary consensus that fighter X is the best (until his next fight), than being left to wonder who of X and Y is better when they cannot contractually fight each other.
Hate for Fedor is probably unwarranted, but his fans do tend to be a bit obnoxious. Most frustrating were statements which are reliant on his infallibility, and the assumption that it was true because it had yet to be disproven. Now, we can see Fedor as another great fighter in the pool of elites instead of some outlier even beyond accomplished guys like Anderson and GSP.
So, Zuffa now has 7 out of 7 #1 ranked fighters under their promotions. Dana just won MMA.
I’ve going to have a fun night watching the internet implode.
Fabricio Werdum can I just say “I love you man!”, thank you for ending the Fedor and M1 bs once and for all. Dana must be laughing his ass off, you’re not going to get that smile off his face for all the money in the world great night of fights SF.
45 Huddle, you and Dana White both have a 😀 right now. Yours is in real life, and his is on real life and Twitter.
Huddle45, Fedor still boxes lesners head off for 25 mins or knocks him the fuck out whenever he feels like it.
Lesner is still shÃte.
Butthurt much?
The next few weeks is gonna be so hilarious.
I’d like to see him do all that off his back.
Well, looks like Fedor fans are going through the denial and anger stages. Next up is bargaining, then depression, then finally acceptance. Save us some time and skip to the end. Or don’t, watching 45 revel in the schadenfreude is amusing.