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Scott Coker’s sales pitch for Fabricio Werdum’s chances against Fedor: “He’s big” and “you never know”
By Zach Arnold | June 24, 2010
One of the problems that Scott Coker has when he pushes a fight in the media is that he never articulates a definitive case for why you should watch a certain fight. He’s usually vague in his sales pitch and it’s mostly generalities. As you see in this passage from Josh Gross’ SI show this week, notice what happens when Josh puts Coker on the spot to try to sell the fight:
JOSH GROSS: “Why is this a fight that people should think that Fedor has a legitimate guy facing him and there’s a risk for him to lose here?”
SCOTT COKER: “You know, I’ll tell you, I mean Fedor looked great in November last year and he’s trains super hard and I heard he’s in really good shape. And Fabricio I know is in good shape… So, yeah, both are going in tip-top shape, ready to throw down, but you know I mean a lot of people underestimate Fabricio and you know you got a guy here who just beat Bigfoot Silva so, you know the size of Fedor is not going to be an issue to him because he’s already fought a guy much bigger, much heavier, and you know when he fought Fedor’s brother, he beat him. He’s beaten Alistair Overeem so whether it’s on the ground, standing-up, you know whether it’s you know the size, I mean he’s fought you know guys that have hosted a potential challenge in those different areas and he’s you know and he’s been victorious so you know can Fedor win? Sure. Can Fabricio Werdum win? I’ll tell you, you know what? A lot of people are underestimating his ability and he might you know it might be an upset that night.”
JOSH GROSS: “Are you sensing that line of thinking from most people? Are you having difficulty convincing your ticket holders or your fans or the media that this is a legit fight? Is that kind of the reaction you’re getting from people?”
SCOTT COKER: “Well I would say this, I would say you know a lot of people are coming because they want to see Fedor fight, they’re Fedor fans. My point is look, that’s great, and I love Fedor. I’ve followed his career for many years just as you have Josh. But, don’t forget about the other guy because this guy is going to bring it and he’s you know this is his Rocky moment, sort of speak, his you know his championship moment and I don’t think the limelight’s going to be any bigger for Fabricio in any fight he’s ever had and so you know this is his time to shine and he knows that it’s going to be all on the line this Saturday and he’s going to have to perform and if he does all I’m saying is it’s going to be a great fight.”
There are a few problems with the way this fight has been sold and part of the problem is that Coker doesn’t execute some of the big principles that UFC has used so well in marketing their bigger fights.
- You need to be able to articulate a reason why an underdog has a chance of winning a fight. Saying “he’s big” and “you never know” isn’t a detailed argument as to why the underdog has any shot of winning. I’ve heard better technical arguments from both Josh Gross and Eddie Goldman, who both have doubts about Werdum winning this argument, than I’ve heard from Scott Coker himself. I hear nothing about Werdum’s technique or the way he fights in the ring.
- You have to give fans a reason to have a dog in the hunt. There are two sides to this fight. There’s the Fedor fan contingency, but what about people who don’t know about Fedor, don’t care about Fedor, or actually want to see him lose just to see what the hardcores will do online when it happens? There’s no reason to go into this fight as a fan saying, “Yeah, Werdum, he’s my boy.” No emotional reason to care for the fight.
Surprisingly, Strikeforce has not pushed the Fedor retirement angle harder. It was an easy storyline for them to push in marketing. “Will this be The Great One’s last match? Will he retire as the greatest heavyweight of all time? Will this be his last fight in Strikeforce?”
Speaking of last fights in Strikeforce, Scott Coker is not exactly bullish about Jake Shields coming back into the promotion, based on his comments to Josh Gross.
JOSH GROSS: “Have you as Strikeforce made a contract offer to Jake Shields?”
SCOTT COKER: “Well, here’s what I can tell you is we have done the numbers game and what that means you know there’s a number that their value was and we have a number that we felt that was you know what we wanted to be in but the numbers are a lot further apart and so you know we’re ready to move on and host a tournament and find a tournament champion to be the next 185 champion. But, you know, a lot of things can happen in this sport between now and the time the matching right period ends, but you know, at this point am I really hopeful? I would say no, to be very honest, I think that it is what it is and you know we inherited that contract from Pro Elite, it’s a one-time situation, and there’s not going to be one guy who makes or breaks our league and that goes for you know Jake as well.”
JOSH GROSS: “How will you determine who’s in this tournament? I know you mentioned an 8-man tournament, but who gets in, who doesn’t get in it? Because 185 is, I think most people agree, the strongest division that you have in Strikeforce.”
SCOTT COKER: “Yeah, well I think the naturals would be you know obviously Jacare, one, right? And I would think that Robbie Lawler would definitely be in there. I think Mayhem (Miller), maybe even Nick Diaz. I think I mean I think that you know maybe we’ll go to the media and do a poll in the media and see who it is. (Smell the sarcasm.) We haven’t decided yet.”
JOSH GROSS: “Yeah, I’m not sure you really want to leave promotional decisions up to the media, Scott, just you know hey, if you want to give us that power, we’ll take it, but not sure it’s the best one…”
SCOTT COKER: “Let me rephrase that. Maybe we’ll put a poll up on our site, the fans can vote.”
JOSH GROSS: “Gotcha. Would you say that the winner between Cung Le and Scott Smith will probably be in there?”
SCOTT COKER: “Absolutely.”
Topics: Media, MMA, StrikeForce, Zach Arnold | 38 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |
Scott “Wishy Washy” Coker lacks a backbone. White overhyped fights. Coker underhypes them. Then again, if you look at the betting line for this fight, nobody thinks it’s even worthy putting on really….
Coker has this flawed mentality that you can just get a name fighter and book him and both the tickets will sell and the audience will come. It’s flawed logic. You need to see both fighters. Not only does it help out the event itself, but it also helps out the aftermath if the lesser known fighter wins.
It’s been comical too see a few writers trying to hype this went up. Snowdumb is a perfect example over at BE of a writer going overboard in trying to hype up what really doesn’t deserve to be. I think most of thefans and other media understand that.
Werdum has always been the poor man’s Noguiera. So does he really have any sort of chance? Not really. Plus, this fight is being contrasted to Lesnar/Carwin which is a 50/50 pick’em fight in the minds of many and really showcases the new generation of Heavyweights. Add in the UFC hype machine and the lack of CBS…. And this show is a dud on paper for many….
Coker has this flawed mentality that you can just get a name fighter and book him and both the tickets will sell and the audience will come. It’s flawed logic. You need to see both fighters.
Well, what PR has been done (i.e. Strikeforce last week) has typically been done with Werdum, perhaps because Fedor prefers to take the mentality of watching cartoons and getting paid. Besides, its not as if the UFC is above booking fights where people only care about one of the two guys.
The UFC can get away with it once in a while because they are the UFC. Coker talking about Werdum makes it obvious that he doesn’t even think this fight is close. And that is horrible promoting.
Would it make you feel better about the fight and the promotion if he was a great liar? I dunno man, I don’t watch fights because I think “Oh man, the promoter talked a really good game on Youtube for this one!”
He doesn’t have to lie… He needs more conviction in his voice. Even when he is putting on a good fight he just doesn’t have the flair to sell it to the media.
But its a lie. I don’t care how much conviction he has in it. You and I both know Werdum isn’t going to win Saturday night, barring a miracle. Dana White knew Demain Maia wasn’t going to win but promoted it anyways. Was that great because he was so over the top about it? Its still a lie.
You don’t push retirement if you’re also pushing for a “big fight”. In this case, that’s Overeem.
As for the inability of Coker to communicate a way that Werdum wins: Uhhh, since when is the media supposed to copy promoter speak verbatim? Werdum’s potential route to victory is basically the same as Maia’s theorized way of winning against Silva. As one dimensional as how it was argued that Hardy could beat GSP. It is what it is. Its not like Dana White really gave some sort of technical explanation as to how it could get done with Hardy, was it? The internet did what he wanted to and GSP’s star power carried the day.
The best thing you can say about this card is that its free. There should be plenty of carnage that people be lovin’, and we get to see Fedor.
The problem is that he can’t do it. Even on this interview with Josh, he practically said that after this fight with Werdum, he’s going to have to sit down with M-1. That means he has no control over the situation.
Interestingly enough on the show, Josh mentioned Fedor wanting to retire and Coker said he needed to sit down and talk to Fedor about this.
Where did I say the media needed to parrot his words like a stenographer? I’m talking about his ability to even sell this fight.
That means he has no control over the situation.
Of course he has control. He has a promotional contract that keeps Fedor under tabs with him in the largest MMA market in the world. Even in Fedor talking retirement, its never immediate or impending as of this fight. Besides: Since when has the threat of retirement worked to bring in fans for anything in boxing or MMA?
Where did I say the media needed to parrot his words like a stenographer? I’m talking about his ability to even sell this fight.
Who is he going to sell this fight to without going through the media? ESPN isn’t going to run Strikeforce press conferences.
It’s becoming painfully obvious that Fedor has no desire to test himself against the we breed of HW’s. He is content with fighting the best guys from 2006 still. And that will always hurt his record when being talked about in history. You combine that with his 3 year layoff from real competition…. And the first UFC Heavyweight to make a 3 year run with the title will automatically be hailed by most as the best HW of all time.
People can say I’m wrong, but if I was a betting man, that’s how I would bet history would unfold.
If a UFC Heavyweight champ can retain for 3 years and defend regularly AND the UFC doesn’t lose any of its prospects, yeah, all that can possibly happen. That’s a lot to ask.
Probably because it’s more of a gauntlet than Fedor will have ever run. What is his best 3-year run? Herring, Nog twice, Coleman, Randleman, Cro Cop.
Exactly. And that was a good run, don’t get me wrong. But I don’t think its the best in MMA history either.
Honestly, are we at the point yet where we can say that GSP is the best MMA fighter to have competed in the sport’s history? I’d really like to finally get over that gap.
Not quite there yet.
GSP is close, but Anderson’s run is still a little bit above and beyond his IMO.
I disagree. When it comes to ranked guys, Silva’s beaten several, sure. For every underrated guy he beat like Lee Murray, there’s a James Irvin or Patrick Cote that didn’t belong there. GSP’s career is beyond ridiculous. He too has an embarassing loss, but besides that…Sherk, Hughes x2, Penn X2, Koscheck (soon to be x2), Serra, Fitch, Alves, Hardy, Trigg, Parisyan: He has beaten every top welterweight in the last 6 years. Not some of them. ALL OF THEM. Sometimes more than once.
GSP has to be #1 based on accomplishment. HW and MW are just not nearly as strong divisions, and GSP has cleaned his out to a far greater extent as well.
The UFC can’t find good challengers because GSP has been in the title picture for about 3-4 years now, beat everyone on his way up, then beat the next wave. We aren’t used to seeing that.
As much as I want to see GSP fight Silva, I don’t want to see either of em lose. Hopefully they can pull it off though, since Anderson’s window will be closing soon.
Yea I completely agree with all the points you made except for the minor fact of Diaz and Shields missing from his list.
I just think Anderson’s run is better because of the domination he’s exhibited in the last 5 years of his fighting career. The only person that looked like he belonged in the cage with him is Travis Lutter. He dominates every person he gets in the cage with, and has the best single win out of the two of them in that time span (Forrest Griffin who was a LHW top 5er and former champion). He’s also undefeated in that time span while GSP has the loss to Serra.
So yea all an opinion thing but if 10 people were voting and they went with GSP’s run over Anderson I wouldn’t argue much.
“Koscheck (soon to be x2)”
LOL, missed that the first time I read thru. I wouldnt be too sure man. We’ve seen Henderson lose to Shields, and Penn lose to Edgar in the last two months…
45…seriously?
Fedor could retire right now, and he will be considered the greatest MMA fighter in history. He spent a DECADE on top, he dominated everyone along the way.
Fighters, promoters, EVERYONE knows this.
So if Fedor doesn’t dominate every top heavyweight for ANOTHER decade, he’s a fraud? And history will look back at him as an average mid-carder?
This line of thinking is dominating MMA forums and it’s getting very old, very fast.
YES 45, I know you love Dana White and the UFC. Yes, I know you feel like it’s your part time (full time?) job to delegitimize everything and everyone outside of Zuffa.
But this kind of garbage has got to stop. I know you’re too smart for this.
Years ago when Lidell was considered the top P4P fighter, everyone was like “Man, Fedor would be scared to fight this guy.” Oddly, you don’t hear that much any more. Ditto for Couture.
Many people online (including you if I recall) were claiming that Fedor was scared to fight then-UFC Heavyweight Champion Tim Sylvia. Then when Fedor signed, many (including you) said Sylvia has the advantage and would destroy Fedor, because of COURSE, of you’re coming from the UFC you’re superhuman…how can a non-UFC mortal even compete?
I think their fight answered the question of whether or not Fedor was scared, or unable to compete at a ‘UFC’ level.
There is no one outside the UFC that Fedor could beat that would satisfy 45 or any of the Sherdogger kids. Not even Overeem. If Fedor came to the UFC and KOed Lesnar in 30 seconds, the UFC fans would be claiming that Lesnar never proved himself, and that Fedor needs to fight someone ELSE to claim the #1 spot. If he submitted Carwin, they’d say he had to beat Velazquez to be considered the best.
On and on it would go. This insane, circular logic is never-ending, and will continue forever until Fedor retires.
Fedor might not be the ‘best there is, best there was, and best there ever will be’ as some claim, but he was the best of the 2000’s, bar none (which, to date, is more than any other fighter in history has accomplished).
That can’t be taken away from him, as much as you’d like it to.
Years don’t mean much. Decade? Who cares. Anderson Silva has been on top for 3 years and his level of competition has been bad. It’s all about quality. Fedor took 3 years off from fighting real compettion and now is avoiding fighting the new better crop of talent. It’s that simple.
And it’s silly when people talk about GOAT in MMA. It really brings out the worst in Fedor’s fans. The sport is still evolving. We haven’t even seen the highest level of what this sport can do. Heck, the prototypical MMa fighter in GSP is still in his prime and it’s impossible to say where things will end up.
Let the sport evolve. Let it peak. Let’s see how good these athletes become. Then and only then does comparing fighters on the all time lists even remotely make sense.
Marciano was underrated and he isn’t even considered Top 3 of all time in boxing. Same is likely to happen to Fedor. Too many weird things on his record to make him even a candidate when history starts being written on the sport.
That has nothing to do with the UFC. That has to do with a logical look at the evolving sport and how fighters choose to test themselves.
One of Coker’s problems is pre-empting his opinions with, “I think.”
He leaves a good amount of doubt whether he actually believes in what he’s saying, because he refuses to take a strong stance.
Being a salesman is not an easy job. If I wanted to sell you something, and told you it was “Ok” or “Might be really good”, you’d probably be fine if you bought it. But I wouldn’t have convinced anyone who wasn’t already willing to buy it.
A recurring theme in these interviews is that Coker has little control over the direction of his key fighters beyond the upcoming fight.
Its a red herring. How is Scott Coker directly contacting fans in order to get them to buy the show? Does he?
From Zach: “Josh puts Coker on the spot to try to sell the fight.”
That is his direct pipeline to the fans. Even if he knows every single one of the people listening will be watching, what is the harm in a little flair?
SF may not have a UFC-style countdown show, but it’s a good thing they don’t. They would be wasting their money, as no one representing SF is particularly credible. Nor would they be able to get on camera and give a good sound-byte.
I know that Dana gets caught up his own hyperbole and says ridiculous things, but Coker does the exact opposite and says nothing worth listening to. It’s almost as though he experiences things in the 3rd person, not as his company’s central figure and decision-maker.
“I think I mean I think that you know maybe we’ll go to the media and do a poll in the media and see who it is.”
For some reason, he gets credit for being articulate online, but his passages are rarely succinct.
Even with the show (which is listened to by exactly how many people?) the majority of exposure people have to Coker is through articles like this one on sites like this. Really.
45 stop trolling, Jesus man it gets old.
Werdum is a legitimate top-level fighter; he probably has the best jiu jitsu among all HWs in mma, he is tough and durable, and his striking has improved tremendously. He has more quality wins than Lesnar has fights. Lesnar’s hit list includes a 45 year old light heavyweight, a washed up midcarder in Herring, the immortal Min Soo Kim, and a 1-1 record against Frank Mir. That’s it. He has 5 fights. I feel embarrassed for you for how much you ride his dick.
One could even say that Fabricio Werdum is BETTER than Brock Lesnar?
General consensus is that Werdum is no better than 6th of potential Fedor opponents. The five being AO + the 4 UFC HWs. He isn’t unworthy, but he isn’t the best opponent either. But seeing as he’s in Strikeforce and given that you had to make Overeem fight MMA for the first time in years, this fight makes sense.
This was Coker on Josh Gross’ podcast which is only listened to by the hardcore of hardcores. When Coker does those types of interviews it seems more off the cuff. I don’t mind that he’s not always in character or playing promoter guy.
And yes…Fedor is scared of this “new breed” of HW’s like JDS, Carwin, Brock, and Cain….never mind the fact that NONE of those “new breed” have fought each other yet. Are they ducking each other?
I guess Shane Carwin hasn’t been promoting UFC 116 well enough for you, but he will be challenging Brock Lesnar for the UFC Heavyweight title.
They were busy beating the same guys who got Fedor his props (basically Nog/CC). Or beating guys who had also beaten the guys who got Fedor his props.
Brock: Herring, Mir (Nog)
Carwin: Mir (Nog), Gonzaga (CC)
JDS: Cro Cop (CC)
Velasquez: Nogueira, Kongo (CC)
All four of these guys have claim to a victory over Nog/CC or another fighter who has beaten one of them directly. The big asterisk is that Nog and Cro Cop have looked awful in the UFC.
No offense but I think this is an intellectually dishonest post.
Nogueira and Mirko were literally shells of themselves when they fought the guys you are referencing.
Herring never won anything; I have no idea why he is on your list. He was always a tough guy who was rugged but lacked high-level talent. In his prime, he was good enough to last a few minutes with Mirko, a round with Fedor, and an entire fight with Nog. 5-8 yrs later, he still went to decision with Lesnar.
The only guy on the losers list you have presented who was still in his prime when beaten by one of the 4 UFC hws you reference is Gonzaga, who was stopped twice by, you guessed it, Werdum.
I am embarrassed for you that you have listed Mir’s destruction of an old, staph-ridden Nog as a major accomplishment. Peter McNeely similarly beat Mike Tyson. Anyone with half a brain knows that in his prime, Mike, like Nog, would have absolutely ravaged McNeely/Mir.
Frank Mir, another allegedly elite HW, got finished by Ian Freeman and Brandon Vera FFS, and after beating an incredibly green Lesnar (who still is green) in the latter’s 3rd career fight(!!) and KOing a mid-carder in Kongo, he is suddenly world-class as well?
Also, I don’t understand all the talk about new-guard of HWs. Lesnar is a year younger than Fedor and Carwin is a year older than Fedor. They aren’t the first big wrestlers in mma. Tom Erikson finished 4th in the world championships and was an All American in college, which I think would qualify him as about 100x more decorated of a wrestler than Carwin. He also won a K1 fight against Bernardo, which probably indicates that he has better striking than Carwin too.
Oh Yeah: My apologies, I started writing before I saw your asterisk about how shot Mirko and Nog are.
Can someone explain to me why Cro cop was a shell of his former self against Gonzaga?
He was the #2 ranked HW in the world coming off the OWGP win 10 mths prior.
Maybe Barnett, Wand, and Yoshida were just not as good as everyone thought they were…
And Peter Mcneely didn’t beat Tyson. He got stopped in the first or second.
David M: Why are you embarrased that someone includes Mir’s win over Nog, but then go back and talk about his loss to Vera when he obviously wasn’t anywehre near 100% yet?
Also Tom Erikson never beat Bernardo. He got KOd after some early success and that was to a very old version of Bernardo.
Erikson’s striking was garbage. Shane’s striking has him 12 straight 1st round KOs…
Are you being facetious? The UFC has their ducks lined up neatly in a row, and we’re going to see all 4 of these guys fight for the title within the next 12-18 months, barring injury/loss. It doesn’t matter that they haven’t already fought at this exact moment, it’s inevitable.
The thing that everyone here is missing. Fedor controls his own destiny, he has fought the best and will continue to fight the best available under his terms. He is not owned by the UFC. If these other fighters want to fight the best, they should ask for their release from the UFC and sign on to another organization that will negotiate with M-1.
Or, on the other hand, if all these fighters want to fight the best then they should all fight in UFC. See how that works? It sucks that the talent pool (in all weight classes, especially heavyweight and all weight classes lightweight and below) are splintered, but it is what it is.
And is Fedor truly fighting under HIS terms? Or is it under M-1’s terms?
[…] today) reported Strikeforce CEO Scott Coker mostly making a case for the upset by such comments as “he’s big” and “you never know.” Ouch. Still, both are true, and Werdum has admittedly remarkable jiu-jitsu credentials. I just […]