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Sherdog: MMA commentators really do suck right now. Is Strikeforce too much pro-wrestling-ish?
By Zach Arnold | May 20, 2010
This discussion on Sherdog radio started when a caller complained about Strikeforce’s event last week on Showtime from St. Louis coming off as “too pro-wrestling-ish.” The focus was on the commentating team used for the event.
And it led to this five-minute exchange that was just great.
“Yeah, Frank Shamrock’s bias really needs to stop because it’s really clouding up the perception that he’s a bad commentator because I mean everyone says he’s a bad commentator and when he’s biased, yeah he is. But Frank does know technical analysis, he’s well-spoken, he’s good at articulating his point, it just gets muddied up in the fact that he goes, ‘I DON’T LIKE THIS GUY. I HOPE THIS GUY WINS.’ Who cares? Just say this is what’s happening here, this is what I think should happen, and this is what’s actually going to happen. Don’t… “JOSH THOMSON, HE’S DUMB!”
“Yeah, it really takes away from the broadcasting but really overall on commentary, TJ, we could nitpick at everything from all three of the big teams out there right now and obviously we have from the UFC, we have from Strikeforce and Bellator has its own problems as well.”
“I don’t think you and I could do any better.”
“Absolutely not.”
“However, I just don’t think that MMA has someone that can really capture a moment and make you feel just overwhelmed with that moment like boxing has. I’m not a big boxing fan and I’m not a big Jim Lampley fan, but when Jim Lampley sets the stage for something, you know what you’re watching is a big deal.”
“Oh, Jim Lampley with boxing is infinitely better than anybody else we have in MMA right now. And I mean that’s just is what it is, I’m not necessarily discrediting anybody on MMA commentary right now, it’s just the situation that we’re dealt.”
“Sure, but the saddest part of me, Lotfi, I thought Gus Johnson was going to be that guy.”
“See, it’s early, though. It’s early.”
“No! No! It’s too late, it’s too late, Lotfi. he’s comfortable and that’s something that I’ve talked about for a long time, once you’re comfortable, once you’re not afraid that your job is in jeopardy and not that Gus Johnson’s job was ever in jeopardy but the perception of him being good or bad was in jeopardy at one time in Mixed Martial Arts. Once you’re comfortable and you don’t fear anything, you get lazy.”
“That’s true.”
“Mauro Ranallo I don’t think has gotten lazy, but he has no filter any more. He just says what comes to the top of his mind. I really think that he sits there with a notepad and goes, ‘All right, I’m going to have to say this a little bit later’ like if Gracie beats Randleman or if Randleman, no matter what, if Roger Gracie got knocked out or defeated Kevin Randleman, he was going to say, “GOODNIGHT GRACIE!” And he did.”
*laughs* “Regardless either way, he was getting that line in.”
“He’s going to make sure he got that in, he’s going to make sure he did at least three references to Ric Flair.”
“Yes, and he did. He did, I believe it was six by the time we were all said and done, I think. I may have lost count, though.”
“All I know is when he comes out in that EA Sports video game and the first time he goes BOOM BABY! it’s over, that television is going on mute.”
“(*laughs*) That’s it and listen, that’s the major point that I take away from commentary, though. I think everybody’s going to have their qualms with every commentary team and that’s fine and I understand that you don’t like it and you don’t like specific things about specific guys, that happens across the board. But if that’s the case then just mute it. I mean, it’s just is what it is because you’re not going to be able to switch teams for the foreseeable future.”
“Yeah, it’s just… I don’t think asking for a decent just straight play-by-play guy is that hard.”
Later on…
“I’m in the belief though, Lotfi, that broadcasting talent isn’t acquired. You have it from basically from the time that you start speaking and it’s whether or not you can refine it and make you good. There are certain people that have it. Believe it or not, Mike Goldberg has it. Mike Goldberg is fantastic from a broadcasting standpoint. He doesn’t mumble, he doesn’t really ever make a mistake, he’s just so canned and campy and contrived that literally Mike Goldberg, you don’t need him cage side any more, you don’t. All you need him to do is to come up with the liners, do the live reads to the liners, put that on a soundboard and the rest of it is done, just like Jim said from Connecticut, the fight’s over, press the fight is over button. THE… FIGHT… IS… OVER!”
“Then just let (Joe) Rogan worry about doing everything else.”
“Main event time, OK, here we go. AND… HERE… WE… GO! I mean, literally, you can put everything that Mike Goldberg does on the soundboard. It’s not that he’s bad, it’s just he doesn’t change anything up ever.”
“Yeah, and that’s an issue and like you said that goes back to what you were saying before, I mean you go with what you’re comfortable with, you go with what works until it doesn’t work anymore and unfortunately I mean no one’s really there to say, ‘hey, this doesn’t work anymore, we need you to change.’ ”
“I mean Zuffa could just pay THQ to program the UFC video game and just pipe all that audio into the PPV and they’re good.”
Topics: Media, MMA, StrikeForce, UFC, Zach Arnold | 16 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |
Interesting conversation. Everything about Strikeforce, including commentators, seems a bit shabby compared to UFC or PRIDE back in the day.
I like Joe Rogan as a commentator. He understands the technical detail, and his excitement and enthusiasm for the sport is contagious.
I really like Joe Rogan and Schiavallo, and I don’t have a problem with Goldberg. Mauro Ranallo can be ridiculous, Frank Shamrock is annoying and Gus Johnson is utterly forgettable.
But it’s been discussed many times that almost every aspect of Strikeforce’s production is fairly low rent. Little things, like when a fighter is walking out we hear an echo-y version of their music in the arena, where on a UFC event it’s clearly coming through and you feel like you’re actually there hearing it….makes you feel like you’re watching a “brand x” show
Interesting discussion. Here are my views….
Man…. nothing but complaints from me here. Probably because MMA commentating isn’t very good outside of Joe Rogan.
One of the major problems is that the sport is so young that we don’t have the retired fighters in the booth yet. That is a KEY element to most sports announcing. They typically team a play-by-play guy with a former athlete. If done correctly, it can do wonders. Sadly, the early sport days have produced guys like Frank Shamrock and Frank Shamrock. Hardly commentator worthy.
The next guy I think will be good is Kenny Florian. He does a good job for ESPN, and shows improvements each time he does it. If he wants to, I can see him having a solid career as a commentator for years to come.
I thought Randy Couture was also going to be that guy, but it seems like Zuffa kicked him out of the booth since they had the problems with him a few years ago. But he was always decent for a fight or two. Not sure if his soft voice can carry the entire telecast.
I think across the board commentating in MMA is terrible. I have to watch the SF shows on mute most of the time.
Rogan is hit or miss. He sets things up and explains them well a lot. But his constantly being over the top gets tiresome. Also he’s incredibly biased and I think mis-calls fights quite often. He and Goldberg basically start rooting for one guy and only call his offense.
What’s funny is that they praise Jim Lampley and he’s been criticized for that in the past quite often.
I happen to think Lampley and Emmanuel Stewart are tremendous. Larry Merchant is punchy and takes away from broadcasts at this point and I have the same complaint about Max Kellerman as I do Joe Rogan. But when you watch an HBO fight you get the sense something important is happening.
Look at the NBC Sunday Night football games. To me that’s the best in the business. Cris Collinsworth and Al Michaels (and before Collinsworth, John Madden the best ever) weave a story every game. They get into the players, the play calling, what’s happening in the game, what could happen, how it relates to the game, the season, etc. They pull your focus onto the action on screen and add to it.
None of the MMA broadcasters do that. You don’t lose anything by watching MMA w/ the sound off. In fact I wish there were a way to get it with just the live mics from the arena and no announcers. SAP (which stands for Second Audio Program) should be used for that now that there are separate Spanish Language broadcasts.
Man, Roadblock absolutely kills it on this point. Announcing shouldn’t just be background noise for the purpose of having someone chirp in with whatever movie is being hyped or what show is coming up next. That’s basically what Goldberg does on play-by-play. I think the only reason people consider him better than Johnson is due to familiarity with Goldberg’s consistent suckage.
Johnson is not “good” by any stretch, but why the hell is he in a three man team with Ranallo, another alpha male PBP guy? Get rid of Ranallo, who will never be anything beyond what he is now and adds nothing of any sort. Johnson and Rutten might actually be not horrible. Same with Militech. Someone that will sound like they are taking it seriously.
No love from Sherdog for Mike Schiavello? I dig his commentary. The old PRIDE teams with Bas used to be fantastic too. Nowdays? Sadly the winner is Rogan and Goldberg.
Watching that first WEC PPV – Goldberg really shined. It was almost like he didnt have as much pressure on him so he was more relaxed and natural instead of so rigid and awkward.
Has anyone who posted here actually tried commentating? It is not as easy as it looks. Not only do you have to know how to say each fighters name, you also must have the vocabulary of moves, be able to improv at a moments notice, be able to gauge your partners — it is not easy, and all of the above mentioned names are doing their best to try to give a good call.
Pat Miletich has become my new favorite broadcaster and commentator — used to love Bas and Mauro and Quadros — yes, 3 man booths are sort of silly.
Best broadcasting team ever in mma was Quadros and Bas; they made those fights seem like huge, world-changing events.
Goldberg is very canned but he doesnt bother me; I like Rogan generally.
I think Gus could be good, but as already mentioned, why the fuck is Mauro there? He is awful. Frank Shamrock has too much ego to be a good commentator.
Rogan is massively overrated. His favorite fighters are how he calls it..he’s wrong just as much as anyone but covers it better…due to being a standup comedian(not a good one). I prefer The Aussie, he’s campy but fun..and he has it in spades over just about everyone in historical knowledge. Wec at least should be hiring him. I also find rorgan to be an incredible phony. He talks all this thick skin shit but the minute someone questions him his inner art it gt all delicate flower..again, just overrated. All in all mma needs better commentators, Jim lampley used to be a joke….and now he’s considered a great compared to joro and th like…that says a lot. I actually do like bas quite a bit..but a whacky Dutchman will never fly with the masses. I can say, dating a (real)dutch girl, them peoples is weird.
Rogan is the best in the fight business. Yes, better than Lampley. I used to hate on Rogan a good amount too. Miletich lets his biases come out just like the other guys mentioned. Bas is guilty of calling more offense for certain fighters just like Rogan is.
Mauro was tolerable in PRIDE (but of course he was compared against Frank “I know that guy!” Trigg) He kept the attempts at being cutesy most of the time to the opening introduction of the fighters. Then when he went to Elite, I don’t know if PRIDE producers kept him in check but EliteXC let him run wild, but it was just non-stop bad puns, forced references, and assorted stupid comments. Either get this guy in announcer’s bootcamp to get him in line again or make him a ring announcer since his voice is better for that.
Joe Rogan just gets on my nerves. I like him in interviews, he’s very knowledgeable and makes good or at the very least discussion provoking viewpoints. But when he gets on live television in the announcer’s booth he gets so excited the hyperbole is untolerable. So is his shrieking when he gets as hyper as a 4 year old who ate a whole box of chocolate bars during fights.
Mike Goldberg is definitely very slick and professional. But I’ve seen him do announcing work outside of MMA and he does the same exact act. He could be announcing shuffleboard games for all he cares. I don’t buy his passion for MMA the same way I do for Rogan or even Mauro. He’s made far too many stupid comments about fight strategy and styles that leave me dumbfounded he has announced for UFC for so long and always comes off like a novice. People say he’s doing that to “help out the casual fans”, but I’m sure they’d rather have more expertise offered.
I still say Bas Rutten and Stephen Quadros from ’98-’03 were the best announcing team in MMA. I was really excited for their reunion, but Bas comes off like he doesn’t really care anymore and Quadros seems to have lost touch with MMA by being out of it for so long.
With Strikeforce, you get the feeling like the announcers are BS’ing half the time. While watching the horrible Antonio Silva vs. Arlovsky fight, the commentators kept pushing that it was a great fight when it obviously wasn’t. Looking back, the virtually same team kept pushing Kimbo Slice as one of the best in EliteXC. Strikeforce has an exciting team, but lacks credibility.
I can’t stand Lampley. Goldberg is also terrible. Yes both are very polished and good at what they do, but what they do (bad hype and contrived narratives) takes away from the fight for me.
I understand Maxomillion Solaris’ point that it is not as easy as it seems but on the other hand … just call the damn action if you are the PBP guy. It isn’t rocket science either.
Best fight sport commentator? Al Bernstein, without a shadow of a doubt. Barry Tompkins (does boxing on Fox Sports Net) is up there too. The best overall TEAM is the HBO boxing team. In MMA? Yeah, I will have to say Joe Rogan. It’s not really because he’s good (he’s all right) but because there really isn’t anything better out there (he takes it by default). The Bellator guys aren’t bad (they remind me of the ShoBox guys. The one guy even sounds like Steve Farhood). The Strikeforce team? UGH! Mauro Ranallo is good when he doesn’t do his stupid puns nor cheerleads. But that is all he does anymore. Gus Johnson just plain sucks. The man just doesn’t understand MMA. He’s a little better at boxing, but that is because you could tell he understands boxing much more than MMA, but he still isn’t good at it. He’s just good at bringing (or faking) excitement.
I just remembered, in the top three with overall fight sport commentators? Brian Kenny on ESPN2. You know, the guy who has the fake feud with Floyd Mayweather. He’s usually in the studio, but when he’s calling fights live he is just shy of incredible.
Oh, and who can forget Colonel Bob Sheridan?
Remember when UFC were going to get a network deal, but didn’t because they were unwilling to give up production to the network?
People were moaning about how that was a bad decision at the time – who cares about production? The other sports leagues let the network control production, while they just put on the event.
Seeing how terrible the production is for CBS and Shotime fights, boooooy am I glad the UFC didn’t cave in.
this is a really good analogy, I whole-heartedly agree with Zach’s views on MMA commentators. I think the commentators should put in as much training on commentating as pro mma fighters have to put in mma training.