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The amount of advertising leading into Saturday night’s WEC PPV in Sacramento
By Zach Arnold | April 21, 2010
I watched the Countdown special produced by Zuffa that aired on Spike TV Wednesday night for the WEC PPV coming up this weekend. It was interesting to see the promotional spin coming out of the hype special. The template has been set: “The Legendary” Urijah Faber and “the people’s champ of Sac-town” vs. the next pound-for-pound best fighter in the world. Will people buy into it?
The hype show was about as effective as you could get in terms of portraying Faber as the ultimate gritty, gutty babyface who the women love and the boys like because he’s the hardest worker in the world who understands the importance of having an extended family atmosphere with the people he trains with.
On the Comcast networks this week, there have been a few barker ads for ordering the PPV on Comcast systems. However, the amount of coverage for the WEC PPV so far has been minimal at best in terms of Comcast advertising. There have been some national ad spots during The Ultimate Fighter on Spike.
The beat writers are predicting somewhere in the 80,000 PPV buy range. I thought perhaps 25,000 given how poor the ratings have been for the WEC on Versus. That and I figured lower expectations would mean that a low buy rate wouldn’t be the death knell for WEC. Dana White was predicting 150,000 PPV buys.
The push by Comcast for UFC 112 (Abu Dhabi) was about 20 times as large as the push has been for this upcoming WEC PPV. The 112 Countdown show aired almost every night on CSN Bay Area leading up to the PPV event. The Countdown show that aired on Spike TV Wednesday night has not aired on CSN Bay Area or CSN California this week. With Bellator airing every Thursday night, some potential time has been taken away from airing the Countdown shows. With the addition of Lou DiBella’s “Broadway Boxing” series last week, there’s also less talk for filler programming in that regard. Ultimately, however, the calculation made by Comcast so far in terms of hyping up UFC vs. WEC is that UFC is the dominant brand and it was well worth the network making the hard sell to everyone for the Abu Dhabi event as opposed to the Sacramento event this weekend.
Topics: Media, MMA, UFC, WEC, Zach Arnold | 53 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |
The WEC brand is not strong at all; I would be surprised if this cracks 50k. Factors against this being a success: WEC has a weak brand, Faber isn’t really a star outside of Sacramento and amongst hardcores, Aldo (although top 5 p4p in mma) isn’t a ppv draw yet, WEC has been giving away their product on WEC so people may be reticent to purchase it, mma burnout, and not nearly as much promotion as for UFC ppvs. Factors for success: Faber is very charismatic and has a star buzz about him, Aldo is the closest thing in mma to Mike Tyson the way he pulverizes everyone–thanks to the WEC being on versus roughly 12 hours a day, people have seen his clips and know how good he is, UFC production on the PPV, street cred points for the UFC always hyping WEC and showing Faber at UFC events, and, uh, that’s it.
At the end of the day I just don’t think that many people are willing to pay 45 dollars for a non-UFC mma ppv that doesn’t involve Fedor, but I hope I’m wrong. The success of Affliction’s first card shows that perhaps the hardcore fans can pop a 6 figure buyrate, although that may just be because Fedor is God..
The WEC preview aired on MTV too, here in Houston at least, which I thought was odd.
At the end of it, emblazoned in typical large font, was, “World Featherweight Championship: Faber vs. Aldo.” And then at the very bottom a little WEC logo.
It’s definitely on MTV. I DVR’d the 6PM CST showing from yesterday. The recording caught the end of the previous show that was about Frankie Edgar which I found extra weird.
The countdown is at least being aired on Spike, MTV, Versus, and DirectTV’s channel which has at least three different channels (I think it’s 101, 230 something and then another in the 300’s)
Besides the main event and Jorgenson’s fight, there is nothing on this card that really jumps out at me. I don’t think this would be their highest rated WEC show on Versus. I damn sure don’t see how they expect anyone to pay $45 for it.
I suggested to them that they include one major UFC fight on the card to gather attention. Maybe one of the two title fights that were inexplicably put together on the 112 card. That would at least attract some UFC fans who might be into the WEC style after seeing it in a PPV environment.
Cerrone/Henderson doesn’t interest you?
Not really. I’m sure it has a chance to be exciting, but at the end of the day they are guys one prominent UFC figure believes Cole Miller would beat. Should I care about them as much as an Evan Dunham fight? Clay Guida would whip either and he’s the gatekeeper…..
I hate to admit it, but Jonathan is bang on. If Cerrone and Bendo didn’t have the hype of having fought for a promotional belt, no one would care about them. Tyson Griffin has had a lot of exciting fights too, but I don’t see anyone ranking him or clamoring to see his next fight, and I am pretty sure Tyson would demolish either guy.
They have done enough promotion to give the show it’s proper level of exposure. And if it fails, they can’t blame it on the Zuffa side.
I am completely baffled at people complaining about this card. All I hear from hardcore fans is how a card should be judged based on it’s fights and not on the organizations name.
Based on the fights, this PPV is a home run. 4 of the top 5 Featherweights fighting each other in 50/50 fights. A lightweight rematch of one of the best 5 round fights of the last 3 years. It’s certainly better then anything the UFC or Strikeforce has put on (on paper).
I still hope this show fails. But that is for business reasons and my want to see the smaller guys merge into the UFC. But the hate for this card is laughable.
I haven’t seen any hate for this card anywhere. I have seen people saying it is the “MOST STACKED” card ever. Which is ludicrous. As you mention, there are some good fights here. Should be a fun night for people willing to pay for guys they are used to getting for free.
You just gave the hate. Cerrone is a terminator no matter how bad his takedown defense is, and Henson does nothing but keep getting better, besides that he’s the only guy to beat Varner whose other loss is to a prime Franca. On top of that they did have a FOTY quality fight last time. Does that not mean anything to you?
So you reply to 45’s comment about hating with a random thought how people have been calling this the most stacked card ever? Exactly who called it that?
Let’s go through this card: 1 probable FOTY quality scrap, 1 guy who just completely dominated a top 10 pfp fighter, 1 guy who just RNC’d one of the best guys in mma at BJJ, a fight between two balls of muscle at 145, and Jorgensen beating up Banuelos. I’d have to say that is a pretty good ppv.
I think it’ll do at least 100,000 buys.
How is saying the fight is irrelevant untrue or hateful? It is. Its a paper title fight between guys that have never faced a top 30 lightweight. It is what it is, regardless of them having a “FOTY contender” or not.
1. It is untrue, because as you have pointed out in the past good fights are good fights, and rankings don’t mean anything. Remember.
2. “Clay Guida Would whip either, and he’s the gatekeeper.” I don’t agree at all, and I am a Guida fan.
I’ll stop saying hate because he doesn’t seem to hate him in his comments. He just, IMO makes a terrible argument, and because of this comes off as trying to downplay WEC. Which in turn could be described by most fans as hate.
On top of that I’d put both Cerrone and Henderson in the top thirty. Not to mention Varner was probably top 15 when Henderson beat him.
Using the same logic that some people are applying to Cerrone-Henderson, Bellator has already been putting on PPV quality cards for a while now. They have had tons of exciting fights by guys outside the top 20. They weren’t terribly relevant, but they were exciting. Cerrone-Henderson is no different than any of a myriad of exciting fights that we have seen in Bellator.
For all you guys claiming Cerrone-Henderson 2 is worth buying just because the first fight was entertaining, would you also pay to see Tokoro-Cullum 2 or Tokoro-Uyenoyama 2? Because those were two of the craziest fights in recent memory. I love me some Tokoro, but I would never pay to see him.
“I still hope this show fails. But that is for business reasons and my want to see the smaller guys merge into the UFC. But the hate for this card is laughable.”
What’s laughable is you generating some ridiculous [and untrue] premise in order to strengthen your argument/point of view.
This card isn’t getting ANY hate. ZERO. The only “hate” I’ve seen is the comment/criticism that it’s awful tough to expect people to pay $45 for this card when:
(a) the market is thoroughly saturated, (b) people have been getting a very comparable level of card FOR FREE previously (which haven’t been getting the greatest ratings), and (c) Faber is not yet proven to be a viable PPV driver or draw of any sort outside of SoCal.
And for what it’s worth, just like you’ve been railing about not caring about fights between guys that aren’t highly ranked/for paper championships – *some* people aren’t all that revved up about a LW “title” fight in a divison that’s going to get folded into the UFC’s division and between two fighters that probably aren’t in the top 15 of said division.
Yeah…the “haters” are out in full force, with their biased “reality”.
The Gaijin,
Perhaps you should stick you your crappy predictions…. Like how Mir and Penn were going to completely outclass Carwin and Edgar…
You said: “This card isn’t getting ANY hate. ZERO. The only “hate” I’ve seen is…”
Which one is it? First you said this card is getting “ZERO” hate. Then you talk about the hate you have seen. You can’t even have the same thoughts in the same paragraph. Let me spell it out for you….
1) Fans say you should judge the fights based on the fights.
2) The WEC comes along with the best fight card on paper this year. Based on the fights alone, this is the best $45 value so far this year.
3) People complain about buying it because it is under the WEC banner and they expect WEC fights for free.
WTF? They can’t have it both ways. They either look at the fights for what they are… Or they are judging it based on the promotion that puts them on. Based soley on the fights, this is a PPV worth card. End of story. People complaining about this level of card on PPV are the haters.
As for the Lightweight Title Fight… It’s the 3rd biggest fight on the card for me. The card already has 2 huge fights in Aldo/Faber and Brown/Gamburyan. As a 3rd main fight, that is a great one based on the style match-ups. Now, if it was the main event, absolutely it should be judged based on the rankings… But it’s really the 3rd biggest fight on the card (no matter if it’s a title fight or not).
Most fight fans bought UFC 112 and now are saying they are skipping this WEC PPV. They got it backwards. This was the must purchase PPV of the month. The problem is that they are viewing it based on the promotional banner and not the fights themselves. These are the same idiot fans that will then complain that Yahoo! Sports calls their MMA section “UFC”. Hmmmm, I wonder why….
And because you seem like the thick headed type, let me spell it out for you even more…
My comments stem directly from the idiot hardcore fans who laugh and bash the casual fans for only watching “UFC” and not “MMA”. As if the hardcore fans are some sort of better bread of fan.
But when it’s time for those hardcore fans to put their money where their mouth is…. Which is buy cards based on value and not promotional name…. They are all complaining about it.
These same hardcore fans are just as much promotional snobs as the rest of the fans. The only difference is that they do it with an anti-UFC slant instead.
Very very very few fans out there look at the fights themselves to purchase the events. Alan C is one of the few on this board alone who doesn’t seem to care what company banner a fight is under.
For me, I admit I prefer the UFC. But it’s time for these other idiot fans (which seems to be the majority of internet MMA fans) to realize that they are doing the same garbage that they are blaming the “UFC fanboys” for doing. Which is viewing this stuff on a promotional level instead of on a fight level.
Aldo against the guy who has lost two of his last four fights is a HUGE fight? Brown against a TUF washout who has layed and prayed his way to some WEC success is a HUGE fight? Two lightweights who wouldn’t cut it in the UFC is a HUGE fight?
I don’t see how this is remotely the strongest card on paper this month. UFC 112 had two title fights and four MMA Hall of Famers. This has some guys struggling to find their place in the fight world.
Snowden:
“Two lightweights who wouldn’t cut it in the UFC is a HUGE fight?”
You could say the exact same thing for Melendez and Aoki. I of course wouldn’t say it for Melendez because I think he would do just fine, but I also think he’s built most of his record on low level guys and overrated Japanese fighters. Why would they not cut it in the UFC, besides the lack of Cerrone’s wrestling?
“Aldo against the guy who has lost two of his last four fights is a HUGE fight?”
So were just gonna throw out scenarios, and not let on that it was the worsed kind of style match up Urijah could go against. Or to the fact that it was the #1 FW in the world and he broke both hands the second fight. OK.
45: I don’t think this card needs to fail for Dana and the Fertitas to want the brand merged with the UFC. In fact I think it’s make a better case for it, if it doesn’t fail. I’ll elaborate more if asked.
You could say the exact same thing for Melendez and Aoki. I of course wouldn’t say it for Melendez because I think he would do just fine, but I also think he’s built most of his record on low level guys and overrated Japanese fighters. Why would they not cut it in the UFC, besides the lack of Cerrone’s wrestling?
Bunch of reasons one could give; they lack the athleticism, overall package of skills, great singular specialty, whatever. If the complaint against Melendez/Aoki is that they are unfairly ranked because they are outside the UFC, the argument is ten fold that for Cerrone and Henderson. Neither have beaten a truly world class, ranked lightweight or even fought one. Their promotion into top ten rankings comes not in spite of the WEC but because of it. The WEC demands we pay undue attention to it, and we do. Need more proof? Carlos Condit; Top Ten Fighter says “hi”.
So were just gonna throw out scenarios, and not let on that it was the worsed kind of style match up Urijah could go against. Or to the fact that it was the #1 FW in the world and he broke both hands the second fight. OK.
We can. How many HUGE fights feature guys with such recent losses, particularly at such a minor weight class?
45, 45, 45…you little mental midget. Apparentyly you’re the thick-headed one that can’t discern legitimate constructive reasoning and hate…that’s not my fault. Did I say that I held ANY of those beliefs? Did I say that I’m not buying the show?
I said that these are the things people are saying – just because you’re a drooling ZUFFA-disciple doesn’t mean they aren’t legitimate or true motivations for people not to purchase the ppv – in regard to why they predict this card is most likely not going to draw big ppv numbers.
Let me spell it out for you again:
1.) No matter how you cut it, the market is oversaturated with MMA. There’s been a several big of “this is the biggest UFC ppv/free tv card ever/of the year”…within the litle over a calendar month leading up to Saturday there will have been:
– UFC 111, which got a giant push for GSP-Hardy/Mir-Carwin and
– UFC 112, which received a huge push for the 3 “legends” fights and the first card in Abu Dhabi
Both of which cost $45-$55 and in some cases left the paying fans quite ticked off. Not to mention that Machida-Shogun II is coming up and getting the uber-hype as well.
Then on Free TV you’ve had: UFC on Versus, UFN: Gomi x Florian, Strikeforce: Nashville, Bellator x 2 and a new season of TUF.
I’m sorry but people, even the hardcores(!ZOMG!) are burning out with the non-stop cards and non-stop PPVs and are going to inevitably skip them. Let’s not forget that NHL and NBA playoffs are underway (and I believe Canada makes up a disproportionate number of ppv audiences) and that baseball is now in full swing.
2.) Like it or lump it, WEC gave away Faber, Brown, Pulver, Aldo, Torres, Manny G, Bowles, Cruz, Cerrone, Benderson, Varner…all in title fights, re-matches, ladder matches, etc. etc. for FREE. Now they are asking a number of people to pay $45 for a niche product (lighter weight classes), that had a hard time pulling ratings when it was FREE. Sorry pal – but your same argument you loved using against EXC, SF, etc. applies just the same here. You don’t continually GIVE AWAY your biggest fights/fighters/title matches for FREE and then suddenly say, “now you pay $45 for that” and expect to have a lot of people clamour to pay for it. They are not offering enough differentiation to entice people to pony up. Shit one fight is a rematch of a fight that was given away for free.
3.) This is your subjective interpretation of what “the best card of the year” is…STACKED!!!1!!11. On paper there have already been better, more compelling cards with fighters people actually know and care about.
MTB vs. Manvel? Who cares…what has Manny done to make anyone interested or compelled to see him fight in teh #2 slot on this card?
Faber – Aldo is the best fight for sure, but face it, while Faber is a compelling fighter, but he’s also lost 2 of his last 4 fights (and 1 win was a completely meaningless and transparent win over a shot Jens Pulver) and is being rushed back in for the ppv due to name value.
And Cerrone-Benderson. Well it should be “exciting”, but so is an number of fights on any card (i.e. Bellator) with interchangable fighters. It’s two borderline top 15 lw’s and will have little ramifications on the lw division as a whole. These guys are middle of the road UFC lw’s and you’ve said it yourself, the UFC has this division pretty much locked down.
Bernard Hopkins for boxing is kind of the guys I one that comes to mind. He lost twice to Taylor at MW then got an immediate shot at Tarver at LHW.
“If the complaint against Melendez/Aoki is that they are unfairly ranked because they are outside the UFC.”
I wasn’t making that argument. I was arguing the point he made that neither wouldn’t “cut it” in the UFC. Oh, and Jamie Varner I believe is as good of a win as Josh Thompson is, and that is the most “world class” win out of Aoki and Melendez.
“Their promotion into top ten rankings comes not in spite of the WEC but because of it.”
You’re putting words in my mouth here. I never said they should be top ten, although I feel the winner would have a strong case for the #10 spot.
Bernard Hopkins for boxing is kind of the guys I one that comes to mind. He lost twice to Taylor at MW then got an immediate shot at Tarver at LHW.
Was that really a “huge fight”? I mean, I guess it was bigger than this event is.
I wasn’t making that argument. I was arguing the point he made that neither wouldn’t “cut it” in the UFC. Oh, and Jamie Varner I believe is as good of a win as Josh Thompson is, and that is the most “world class” win out of Aoki and Melendez.
Whaaaaaaa?
“Was that really a “huge fight”? I mean, I guess it was bigger than this event is.”
A fight between two top 5 pfp boxers that had a completely improbable outcome, and you say “was it really a huge fight?” Are you kidding?
“Whaaaaaaa?”
I wasn’t making that argument. I was arguing the point he made that neither wouldn’t “cut it” in the UFC. Thats all you need to know. The other part was me rambling my own random thoughts, and I guess they confused you.
And I should add what a waste of effort it is to even bother talking to a someone like you who gets their panties in a gordian knot over anything that’s not positive over a Zuffa related event. Seriously, just such a god-damned pedantic little faux-controversy stirring drama queen.
What’s that? The 3rd or 4th time you’ve resorted to some unrelated insult about a fight prediction? Wow…I’ve gotten two fight predictions “wrong”. That has what to do with this? Or any other time you’ve brought it up? Fact is Penn did outclass Edgar, it’s too bad they have some ignoramous judging who has a history of horrible judging, who seems to have the same level of mental process and maturity as you. So I guess it goes a long way to explaining why YOU and him share so such skewered views.
A fight between two top 5 pfp boxers that had a completely improbable outcome, and you say “was it really a huge fight?” Are you kidding?
Tarver was not a top 5 P4P boxer at any stage of his career, nor was Hopkins immediately after losing his middleweight title to Taylor. Nor did Taylor beat Hopkins in a fashion similar to that of Brown’s wins against Faber. Nor was Hopkins much of a draw, nor do I consider it a “huge fight”. I mean, if it was a huge fight, so was Mosley/Vargas II or whatever. It was the kind of fight people complained about not being on HBO.
I wasn’t making that argument. I was arguing the point he made that neither wouldn’t “cut it” in the UFC.
I think he’s right. Aoki and Melendez have done far, far more in their careers to justify high rankings or discussions as to being world class than Henderson, Cerrone, Varner, and everyone else in the WEC lightweight division COMBINED. Its not even close either. Its a grouping of prospects deemed not good enough for the UFC fighting one another who are promoted to being factors at lightweight because of no other reason than them being under part of the Zuffa promotional umbrella. Getting excited about a fight with a couple top 30 guys fighting one another and arguing that it is a strong indicator of an all time great show is offbase.
Alan: I love how you devalue rankings all the time, and for this argument you decide that they are worth their weight in gold. It’s pretty funny. BTW – and Im gonna caps lock this so maybe you’ll finally figure out what the initial argument was about – HE SAID TWO LIGHT WEIGHTS WHO WOULDN’T CUT IT IN THE UFC; I BROUGHT UP AN ARGUMENT THAT YOU COULD SAY THE EXACT SAME THING ABOUT MELENDEZ AND AOKI; I NEVER BROUGHT UP RANKINGS.
Now what I’m wondering is why is the guy who usually downplays anything about rankings continuing to bring them up for the sake of 1 argument. It’s a mystery isn’t it.
Who has Aoki beat? Alvarez? Hansen? Uno? Hirota? Yea they are really world class right. Melendez has beat Kawajiri, Ishida, and Thompson. All guys who have made their bones fighting in Japan against a lower level of competition except Thompson, who’s only really good win is the first fight with Melendez.
I was figuring 20-25,000 too. I love the WEC but perhaps it needs to fail so a merger can take place.
45, as a general matter, when one lies repeatedly and is repeatedly called out over said lies, it doesn’t help one’s credibility.
There is no hate on the card, just realism about its ppv prospects. When it does poorly, however, I doubt anyone is going to gloat and hope WEC folds the way you any time a non-Zuffa event isn’t a huge success, or come up with bullshit logic when it is a success (see Fedor on CBS drawing a massive overrun rating, which you claimed was old people turning on the news (and apparently staying on cage fighting for 20 minutes, lol)).
Can’t you see he’s trying to put himself up on his martyr’s cross? He’s the lone soul, fighting the good fight and bringing across the real message through all the [fictitious] hate. It’s his twisted way of legitimizing his views.
He’s a real present day internet blog commenting prophet who’s message is unappreciated by the biased, uneducated and ignorant masses and experts alike.
Did anyone see The Ultimate Fighter last night…I guess MMA is just pro wrestling now.
Or at the very least, Italian soccer.
Between the Shogun rip-off and now, a LOT of really, really shady shit has been going down in the UFC.
A lot.
I don’t understand…don’t they have instant replay in Nevada? Why the eff wouldn’t they use it for this fight?
It still looked pretty inconclusive to me, one angled looked like it might have caught him, another like the Ali-Liston phantom punch. From my view it looked like it hit him in the collarbone/upper chest and then part of his thigh might have grazed him in the face.
Total Oscar job.
If you think those things are shady I would love to hear what you thought of Pride, basically an org that was the defenition of shady yet acclaimed by hardcores as mma at it’s finest which was a joke.
What a troll.
Nice assault on the english language Tito…try some basic grammar lessons.
Go back under your bridge.
I just saw the WEC Countdown tonight. I think they dropped the ball convincing anybody who isn’t a WEC fan to care about Aldo-Faber. Faber was painted as a guy who was once good then fell off and had two guys surpass him, kind of like 2007 Matt Hughes almost. And Aldo needed to don a red and white hat and giant glasses so we could play a game of Where’s Aldo? because he was MIA beyond like 3 highlight clips played on loop.
On the other hand, the Cerrone vs. Henderson build was fantastic work. Probably the best Countdown build since Lesnar-Mir II. We got a masterful segment on two personalities, that while caricatured still was exactly what you want. Even if you knew nothing about them before watching the show you know enough to have an opinion on their personalities.
And what I mainly drew from the show is a desire to move to New Mexico. If Donald Cerrone can afford that big ranch on a WEC fighter’s salary, then I could apparently afford to buy the equivalent of Xanadu there.
Not finalized/official yet, so I will withhold any comments…but I’m not sure what exactly this accomplishes?
Any athletic commission worth its salt would no doubt have no problems sanctioning a fight between someone with zero professional mma experience and a questionable/poor recent track record in his actual professional fighting sport against a multi-time champion and decorated veteran of mma.
http://mmajunkie.com/news/18852/randy-couture-vs-james-toney-targeted-for-augusts-ufc-118-in-boston.mma
This can blow up in ZUFFA’s face. Toney is facing the worst possible styles match up against a MMA ‘legend’ who might be faded but who still headlines UFC events. He is expected to lose. But if he somehow pulls off the hail mary KO then MMA will look a little ridiculous…and this can happen, Couture’s chin is terrible, he was stunned against Coleman.
If they really wanted to embarrass boxing and Toney (to casual fans) then they should have matched him up against a B level name who should beat him regardless because you can bet that Toney won’t bother to cross train. Instead they match up him against one of the biggest names/lifelong wrestler/master tactician etc who has a terrible terrible chin. On the other hand Toney is a washed up steroid abuser who is no longer relevant in his sport.
Massachusetts is a weak commission, they will sanction this.
Not finalized/official yet, so I will withhold any comments…but I’m not sure what exactly this accomplishes?
Makes money. That’s obviously all they’re interested in. I’m surprised they didn’t do the Kimbo fight. Maybe if they give Toney a second bout?
“Makes money.”
Well that goes without saying. I meant that I’d be more interested to hear the justification for it…it’s a total freakshow fight and it won’t prove mma > boxing or boxing > mma. You just know that will be the storyline.
Well, they will say that Couture is a hall of fame MMA fighter and Toney a hall of fame boxer. The usual suspects will say this makes it not a freakshow and there will be nothing else from that point on. No one wants to argue that its a freakshow because its the UFC, and being overtly negative to the UFC is seen as being negative to MMA as a whole.
Kimbo was too risky. His chin is made of stunt prop glass made of sugar and he knows little but mediocre stand up. There’s a very good chance he’d get knocked out. Randy won’t stand on his feet for more than 3 seconds and Toney has already told the world he’s not even going to bother learning takedown defense. I think this has turned more into Dana being able to do the “Oh yeah, boxers sucked in MMA!” deal every time boxing gets a better buyrate than making the biggest money.
The push has already started for, the “Randy’s chin makes this fight more of a question mark than people think…” meme.
Too good.
Oh well…it brings more people in to watch the sport so on the whole I don’t really care. Hopefully they put on a really good card – Penn vs. Edgar II should be a good rematch – and take advantage of the increased exposure this will garner. An argument might be that they’re trying to draw in some NA boxing fans, but I don’t think anyone in NA has cared about Toney for the last half decade, so I’m not sure they will now.
I’ve seen people try to compare this fight to the Mir-Lesnar fight, in that it’s a win-win, but I think people are seriously delusional if they think this has any potential to approach that.
I am really excited to see that fight. I’m not being sarcastic. Sometimes I think smarks get too cynical about fighting; this is supposed to be entertainment, and seeing James Toney vs Randy will definitely be entertaining. Toney is hysterical; he can barely speak English, he curses everyone he has ever met, and he is so easy to hate. Couture is the well-spoken elder statesman of the sport, and the trash talk between them will be great to see, and the fight will be captivating.
Toney will be on his feet for probably less than 1% of the fight. It will be a snoozefest, the boxing purists will say Randy fought cowardly for not standing up with him, the MMA purists will pretend like Toney is way more important than he is and hail this as a landmark for MMA, and people with a decent set of brain cells won’t give a crap.
I highly doubt it will be a snoozefest.
What makes for boring fights is when both guys completely neutralize each others offense (ie … Vera completely shutting down Randy’s takedowns). Tony doesn’t have the skills to neutralize what Couture does. It won’t be a snoozer …. it will be a slaughter.
This fight is going to last about 60 seconds and consist of Randy clinching up, pressing Toney into the cage, dumping him on his head with a big throw, and then smashing his face in with ground & pound. Nothing boring about that.
When is the last time Randy ever came close to “smashing someone’s face in”? His ground n pound is weak, it gets stopped simply because the opponent can’t get up, not because he’s in danger of getting his brains beat in or anything.
I think what will happen is Randy will feel insulted by the son of the death fight warrior and will be out to embarrass him by doing nothing but taking him down and keeping him down like the Tito fight. Wouldn’t shock me if he brought back the spanking spot either. Maybe he can get a crappy submission off, but 90% of the fight will be Randy’s wrestling clinic and Mike Goldberg and Joe Rogan furiously masturbating under their desk because a 50 year old was able to take down a 40 year old with no wrestling experience.
There’s a certain amount of respect and admiration that I have for the fact that Couture is able to still compete and be such a specimen for a guy his age (exotic and expensive hormone replacement therapy aside). But it does wear a little thin that I’m expected to buy into the fact that the guy is still an elite level fighter and/or title contender. Don’t insult our intelligence.
Far be it for me to say when someone needs to retire or not do what they chose to do for a living, but as 45 said before, there’s a reason no one wants to see an “MMA Legends” division.
Mark,
I think you are grossly overestimating Toney’s defensive skills on the ground. Forget about Couture, I think 99% of the guys in the UFC would smash his face in the second the fight hit the ground.
The guy has no experience off his back. It’s easy to smash a guy when he has no idea how to defend what you are doing. I highly doubt Toney will even be able to establish a guard, much less control posture or secure wrist control. Without those skills, I think most WEC bantamweights could pound him out, much less a guy like Couture.
The whole problem I have with the fight is the people who aren’t completely ashamed of this are acting like James Toney is either a Mike Tyson level icon who is going to draw a massive buyrate on his name value or as relevant to that sport as Pacman is today so will be the true test of boxer vs. MMA fighter. He’s neither. He’s a washed up fighter looking for a payday whose ego is so big he honestly thinks he’s going to get a 2 second KO because his gloves are smaller so why worry about learning grappling. There is nothing appealing about this.
I think the best match up for entertainment, fairness and the most minimal freakshow appeal would be putting him with Liddell. Liddell was touted as the best puncher in MMA a few years ago, his chin sucks but isn’t as terrible as Kimbo, and he’s more apt to want to stay standing rather than Randy automatically rushing in for the takedown. Plus they’re around the same age and career status (although obviously Liddell has many more fans) so I would have zero problem with that fight. But that’s just me. If you think pushing this fight as selling it as “Randy pretty much sucks now so tune in to see how he does against a n00b!” is a good idea so be it.
I was not in support of the UFC picking up James Toney. But he is still in there….
Couture vs. Toney makes the most sense. And it belonds in the same roll that Hughes/Renzo was in for UFC 112…. Which is with 2 other bigger fights. It just adds some depth to the PPV…. Albeit some old depth…
I know it will never happen due to his health (mental and physical) issues, along with his alleged rampant steroid and controlled substances usage – but if you’re going to go the freakshow route with Couture from now on…I’d rather see him fight someone like Kurt Angle.
There’s a guy with a sterling pedigree in the strongest base of mma, who wouldn’t be totally useless 5 seconds after the fight starts. This statement goes more for about 5-6 years ago, but if Lesnar could translate his amateur background and athleticism into mma, Kurt Angle could have 10xfold. I’ve heard numerous stories that they did not get along and that when Angle actually challenged him to wrestle he (Angle) completely schooled him (Brock).
I’m thinking their doing Toney vs Couture so they can show that MMA > boxing. You put Toney against a young guy, and every says that he’s way past his prime, etc. You put him against Couture, and now you’ve got two HOF fighters about the same age and in the same stage in their career. Couture grinds him in a bloody pulp, and UFC gets to bring it up whenever boxing vs mma debates spring up on ESPN.
Of course, it could backfire, but you’ve got to think Couture’s got a ridiculous advantage and it’s worth the risk.
idk about you guys but tonights WEC PPV was money well spent…such a great card…better then any recent UFC or Strikeforce events…i have no problem paying for a WEC event 2-3 times a yr while catching the other events for free on Versus…these fighters are world class at their respective weight classes and i w/o a doubt think guys like Benson Hendo can hang w/ UFCs lightweight class….dont sleep on the WEC just b/c you dont know about it…def. top notch talent in there…and tonights card proved that…really good fights tonight…