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Main thoughts coming out of UFC 111
By Zach Arnold | March 27, 2010
Click to see my comments in full-page view. .
One note: If you have not seen the video yet of Georges St. Pierre in the locker room after his fight, go to UFC.com and watch it. He wasn’t lying when he said that he would practice with his jiu-jitsu coach after the fight to try to figure out what mistakes he made.
I’ve included links to articles that I wrote about last night’s show.
- Good guys finish first: Shane Carwin seizes the moment to win UFC Interim Heavyweight title
- Jon Fitch still manages to anger fans even when he wins UFC fights
- Don’t compare GSP’s ‘boring’ fight to Jon Fitch’s fight style
Thoughts:
- Jon Fitch is not going to get a title shot against Georges St. Pierre after that fight tonight. He’s about to get the Yushin Okami treatment in a big way. Please spare me the “lay and pray” comparisons between Fitch and St. Pierre. St. Pierre uses his wrestling to take guys down at will and looks to finish. Fitch’s default mode is to survive on his wrestling and not do much more, despite his proclamations in the past about how he would evolve into a finisher. Hasn’t happened. He’s probably a 60/40 favorite against Thiago Alves and given tonight’s performance, we will see that fight shortly.
- Shane Carwin not only legitimized himself as a mainstream star with the devastating win over Frank Mir, but he also punched his ticket to a potential million-plus PPV buyrate when he faces Brock Lesnar. Shane deserves everything good that is coming his way. Amazing the size difference between him and Lesnar. I think Lesnar is favored in that fight, but Shane is not going to be a pushover at all. His conditioning is great for a man his size. What a fun fight that will be to watch.
- Given how stagnant the heavyweight picture is outside of UFC, it’s hard to see how people can keep Carwin out of the Top 3 mix of heavyweights in the world. Josh (Barnett) didn’t look good at DREAM in Yokohama.
- Frank Mir’s career will be stalled temporarily by the loss, but I fully expect him to remain a key player in the Heavyweight division. Too good of a fighter and too good of a talker not to stay high-profile in UFC.
- Brock Lesnar cemented his status as the biggest ace in North American MMA history this past week. Nobody knows how to draw a reaction from people more than this man. I was laughing at the fact that Paul Heyman was hanging around him. What a fascinating duo those two are.
- I’m sure Georges St. Pierre would have liked to gotten an early finish on Hardy, but this fight won’t damage his aura one bit with the fans. (Though there are many writers not thrilled.) I thought Dan Hardy performed better than expectations going into the fight (mine were very, very low) and even though the fight was one-sided, in the end it’s the kind of star-making showing that will get Hardy a bigger following (if you can do so while getting your ass kicked). Not much more that Dana White could have asked for. I came away feeling a bit more different about Dan Hardy (sympathetic) than I did about Jon Fitch (brutal) regarding those men losing one-sided fights to St. Pierre.
- I’m completely convinced that Jake Shields is UFC bound, win or lose, after his fight against Dan Henderson on 4/17. If he beats Henderson, Dana White will laugh all the way to bank booking St. Pierre vs. Shields.
- A hearty thanks to Kurt Pellegrino for not only having an inspirational life story but for continuing to be one of the more intriguing fighters to watch in UFC. Like Carwin, I hope Kurt makes as much money as he can in the fight game because he’s earned it. An honor to watch him fight.
- I never know what to expect with New Jersey MMA crowds.
- I heard that DirecTV PPV customers have had problems with UFC events (due to delays in audio and video transmission). Did anyone here experience such a problem?
- Did anyone go see the UFC event live in a theater? My local theater didn’t show it, but I was wondering how the experience was to watch…
Topics: Media, MMA, UFC, Zach Arnold | 58 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |
Great wrapup. Carwin stunned me by how easily he dismantled Mir, and I agree that he should be ranked #3 in the world. He didn’t look as flat-footed against Mir as he did against Gonzaga, and showed another terrifying aspect of his game in crushing Mir in the clinch. He’s clearly still getting better. Which is why the UFC HW division is so exciting: most of the top guys are still getting better.
Thats why the future of the HW division is in the UFC. Most of the top fighters outside the UFC are guys who have maxed out their talent; the UFC has guys like Carwin, Lesnar, Dos Santos, and Velasquez who are still improving, as well as prospects like Struve and Duffee. The UFC’s recent obsession with signing HW prospects guarantees their eventual domination of the division.
I watched the PPV at the AMC near my house. It was unique to watch it on the big screen, but the atmosphere was flat. For $20, I’d rather go to a bar.
“His conditioning is great for a man his size.”
With Carwin’s longest fight only going 3:48 it might be a bit early to talk about his conditioning. Other than that, great writeup.
I was at Newark for the fight and man did they hate Fitch. Probably a smart move not interviewing him, he would have been booed out the building if they did. Nobody wants to hear him say he was disappointed for not finishing when hes had so many chances.
BTW, whats everyone predicting on the buyrate.
Fitch is like watching paint dry. They should just cut him loose and let him go ruin someone else’s shows.
Phenomenal showing by Carwin. He’s for sure with the guys at the top of the HW heap now. This is the most interesting the HW division has been in the young history of MMA.
St. Pierre needs to go up to 185. I’m really bored of him at 170. He hasn’t had an entertaining fight since the 2nd Serra fight. He outclasses these guys by a mile, but it’s pretty boring. Greg Jackson has done to him what Emmanuel Stewart has done to the Klitschko Bros. He has taken all risk out of his game. That’s smart from a winning fights, not getting hurt, making money perspective. But I’d like to see him challenged and have to use more of his skill set. For the Klitschkos there is really no hope because it is unlikely anyone will come on the scene during the rest of their careers and threaten them. But for St. Pierre he could move up a weight where he won’t be able to manhandle guys on the ground so easily.
I’d like to see Hardy, Alves and Penn compete for the 170 title if/when St. Pierre moves up.
Watching the post fight conference, Carwin is saying the plan was always to dirty-box Mir. Somebody elsewhere compared him to Couture with power, and thats damn exciting to have in the HW division.
I am just curious, for all of those people calling or St. Pierre to move up to 185, you realize he would have to gain more than 25 pounds to even approach the weight of Anderson Silva.
Where is it that St. Pierre can stand to gain this size? He’s already a specimen as it is, at 170. He isn’t lanky with a frame to fill in.
I think calls for him to move up are absurd, in that sense. He would be drastically undersized.
GSP moving up is a stupid idea even for MMA fans. The guy should stick to Welterweight. He was smaller then Dan Hardy….
“He was smaller then Dan Hardy….”
I was surprised by how much smaller he looked.
He did look smaller but to be honest Dan looked HUGE to how he normally is
Man I liked Fitch’s fight. Completely dominated Saunders.
Still watching the press conference. Georges is wearing the same suit AGAIN. He literally only has one suit.
Dana buy that man a few suits!
Zach, I haven’t posted in a while. I must say I am impressed with your analysis, you are evolving in a good way. I think it is a no brainer that Jake Sheilds must come to the UFC. If Dana White wants us to see the fights that we as fans want to see, Sheilds vs St. Pierre is the only fight at 170lbs that makes sense at this point in time. The fight should also occur as close to San Jose as possible for greater effect. One further point to this fight, should Jake Sheilds win vs Dan Henderson, WAMMA should present Jake Sheilds with the world middleweight belt. If this were to occur and Jake does fight George, imagine the press outside of North America. This truly could be seen as a watershed moment in MMA history.
Anyone have a pic of Paul E. with Lesnar?
Jon Fitch should never be on the main card of a PPV. Literally he is impossible to watch. He has no striking, no power, no submissions, and no ability or willingness to do anything impressive on the ground. He is a black belt in jiu jitsu the way I am. I actually would like to see him fight GSP again just to see Fitch get destroyed. Either that, or Dana needs to bribe Koscheck to leave AKA and fight Fitch. The man is an albatross on any show he fights on.
Quick thoughts:
Carwin looked great in the fight, and tiny next to Brock–that was crazy. Palhares is an asshole. GSP looked almost like he was carrying Hardy, or he has no idea how to ground and pound people, which seems unlikely. Pellegrino fight was awesome, especially after the Fitch “fight” right before it.
I heard that DirecTV PPV customers have had problems with UFC events (due to delays in audio and video transmission). Did anyone here experience such a problem?
Yes, I had a similar problem with Cablevision on Long Island. occasional audio delay, video pixelization, and blank screens. Most of the issues were early in the card. Very annoying considering the price.
My buddies were initially disappointed by missing Mir/Lesnar 3, as they hadn’t seen a lot of Carwin. And Mir is playing the quasi-heel role pretty well. I showed them some Carwin hilights and the interest levels peaked rapidly. they’d seen all the fights in the past and forgotten about him. Is Carwin forgettable? Or does he need the UFC PR push. He’s such a nice respectful guy–how the hell are they gonna sell this fight?
Zach,
I watched the card at Cobb CineBistro in Wesley Chapel, FL. It’s an “eat at the movies” theater – the balcony has 40 huge Laz-Y-Boy style seats with a flip out tray to eat your meal on. The normal theater seats are on the bottom level.
Up until 3 days before the event, only 8 of the +/- 40 seats were sold (it’s 100% reserved seating – you pick your seats when you buy the tix). When I arrived at the theater, at least 30 of the seats were sold. There were couples, groups of guys, etc. It’s 21 and up in the seating area, so there were no youngsters. I looked over the balcony to the lower theater, and they had a decent turn out down there, too.
They also served food ’till 11:00PM and beer/drinks right up until 12:00AM, which they do NOT do during normal movies. The specials were – surprise – $2 Bud Light drafts and $8 Bud Light pitchers.
Based on the $20 ticket price and the amount of food and drinks being purchased throughout the show, I think the theater will consider it a success. I have no idea what Fathom charges them to host the card, but sales were brisk.
The crowd was responsive too. A couple of Hardy fans got razzed, but overall it was an older, educated and fairly sophisticated crowd.
My experience was really dependent on the theater itself. You may find others who watched it in a “normal” theater that it was nothing special.
As a frame of reference, I’ve been to 6 live UFC events – two in Vegas (Randy vs. Chuck 1, Chuck vs. Rampage), two in Montreal (GSP vs. Serra 2, Silva vs. Leites) and two in Florida (Fight Night Cards).
Lesnar is going to have a ton of ringrust, but there’s no way he’s going to stand with Carwin for more than the 20 seconds it will take for him to get the takedown. Much respect to Carwin for KOing Mir (and I do love it so when Mir loses) but Lesnar’s size and freakish athleticism will overcome his “puncher’s chance”.
I guess a good role for Mir now will be the gatekeeper to the n00b HWs. But him against JDS and Velasquez and if they win you’ve furthered their legitimacy but if he wins he’s a solid draw so either way you’ve got a successful formula. And if he totally craps out by losing to both of them, there’s always the Kimbo option.
GSP is getting a ton of hate around online for not finishing Hardy and people bitching about him not taking enough risks. He’s a grappler, why would he leave his comfort zone when it’s always successful? If you don’t think GSP wasn’t trying ti finish the fight you’re either smoking crack or didn’t really see it. He’s nowhere near being as boring as Tim Sylvia was as supersafe champion or Jon “ZZZZZZ” Fitch was last night. Hardy showed lots of heart but he still doesn’t deserve to be a top level Welterweight. Yet, anyway.
Speaking of Fitch they really need to do something about him soon. He’s going to totally screw up the division by winning snoozefests over everybody which will hurt contenders people actually want to see. But there’s nothing they can do about it if they’re going to be a legitimate sport but hope one day somebody finally beats him like with Okami and use that as an excuse to never give him a televised fight again. Or start giving his judges decisions the Don King treatment.
What you do with Fitch is feed him to Penn, than let Alves knock him out, and finally bring Hector Lombard in to slaughter him. After that they can bury him in the prelims.
There is a VERY simple solution for Jon Fitch.
They give him his title fight against GSP. And they tell him if he loses, he must go up to 185 pounds to try out a new division. Kind of the same thing that happened to Rich Franklin.
It’s better to do it sooner then later with Fitch.
Personally, I don’t understand the hate on him. He does what basically what few in MMA can actually do… Which is completely dominate his opponents from start to end.
This pathetic obsession with finishing your opponent in exciting fashion needs to end. This is a sport. Winning is the most important thing.
I agree here. Fitch fights to his strengths and he imposes his will on most of his opponents. I thinks it’s remakable to see that. I think it has to do with how the UFC generally pushes fights. Most people want to see crazy ko’s with a couple of subs mixed in. That’s just never going to go away, no matter how much we may want it to. Joe Casual Fan would buy a DVD of the top knockouts, not the one of the top takedowns and top positioning from inside your opponent’s guard.
Actually, I really like Derreck’s plan for Fitch. I forgot about Penn saying that he’d like to move up to WW if and when he beats Edgar. I would love to see him dismantle Fitch. If BJ beats Edgar, I highly recommend everyone Twitter Dana to make that fight between BJ & Fitch. If Fitch refuses to fight Koscheck, the hell with him.
Zach, after all the commentary I’ve read this morning. I agree with yours the most. While I wasn’t completely happy with GSP’s performance, it wasn’t because he sucked. He fought an excellent fight and exploited his opponent’s weaknesses. Many other fighters would’ve tapped to that Kimura and Armbar. Hardy made me a fan last night! He’s a lot tougher than I thought.
Pelegrino’s head spike was vicious. Great performance by Batman. I’d like to see him rematch Nate Diaz. Check out Ariel Helwani’s post fight interview of Diaz.
I was disappointed that Mir didn’t win but I’m still psyched to see Carwin vs Lesnar. We’ll get to see what Lesnar’s chin is made of, for sure.
My friend’s Direct TV feed had the audio out of sync for at least half of the night. It didn’t negatively affect the viewing experience however.
As “unexciting” as Fitch is, I don’t know how so many people can just totally dump on him. HE WINS. He controls his opponent so well, they can’t mount any legitimate offensive to force Fitch to take more chances. It blows me away he is so underappreciated. But I guess this will always be my gripe with the fight game…..equal emphasis on “excitement” and profitability as on the genuine sporting aspect of MMA.
I respect the fact that GSP game plans and uses his best attributes to win fights, that’s what makes him one of the best in the entire sport. But this performance was disappointing because he was facing a C class opponent and yet he still fought a safety first fight. I can understand not wanting to stand with Alves or making sure not to give up position against Penn, but why couldn’t he posture up and G&P against Hardy who was no threat from the bottom with submissions and couldn’t wrestle to save his life?
This was a grappling match between a very good wrestler and a novice grappler.
GSP could have also out struck Hardy on his feet if he wanted too, but he hasn’t been that fighter since the Serra loss, which is too bad. I agree with the Emmanuel Stewart/Greg Jackson and GSP/W.Klit analogy. There was no reason why GSP couldn’t put a beatdown on Hardy on the ground.
I’m glad that Mir got exposed, he gets knocked out again from arm punches…a combination of having a glass chin and mental breakdowns, nothing to be surprised about. He was riding high only because he beat zombie Nog. Carwin is still unproven IMO, he deserves a high ranking but he hasn’t done much in-ring and Brock will crush him. Cain and JDS are better prospects.
Where is The Gaijin? The guy said “Mir will tool Carwin. There’s probably not a more over-rated guy (based on accomplishments) this side of Overeem.” Looks to be slightly wrong on that one… Predicting a Carwin victory was easy. Mir can’t take a shot and Carwin can punch.
Lesnar vs. Carwin is going to be a huge event.
I’m 50/50 on the hate for GSP. He did try to finish it. He also seems too timid in there. He isn’t the same guy who fought Jason Miller, Sean Sherk, or Frank Trigg back in the day. This is what can happen when a fighter has too much to lose. They fight not to lose and not to win.
I don’t mind Fitch as much as others do. And I don’t think feeding him to BJ Penn is the answer. He would beat up Penn very badly. Penn can’t avoid the grappling and can’t submit him. Why ruin Penn against another Welterweight?
The Heavyweight Division starts and end in the UFC right now…. The winner of Lesnar/Carwin should be ranked #1 in the world….
I don’t know if Carwin/Lesnar quite makes #1, but for sure the winner of Carwin/Lesnar vs Velasquez should be #1. That’d give the winner 3 top 5 wins, in a division where the current #1 has beaten 0 of the current top 6 fighters.
#1 Fedor
#2 Brock
#3 Carwin
#4 Velasquez
#5 Mir
#6 JDS
#7 Nog
#8 Rogers
There’s some possible interplay between #4/#5, and #6/#7, but otherwise the division has sorted itself out pretty objectively.
Hey – I ate my crow in the other thread where I said it. Sorry, work is nuts so I didn’t have time to sit around and bitch about GSP not bludgeon Hardy half to death for the entertainment of the “JUST BLEED” mutants.
As I said before, I am very impressed with the NASTY NASTY power Carwin has…I really thought Mir would do something other than not defend against someone punch him in the face again, but he seemed to be a little too lax for some reason. I really don’t want to hear people make comments about Overeem and sit there with a straight face and not acknowledge the OBVIOUS issue with Mir’s insane amount of growth/transformation in a short period of time. Not only did he go from being a sloppy-ish 245-250ish HW, he’s cutting to 265 and absolutely ripped…in like a 6 month span. Now I don’t think you need an exercise physiology degree to understand that you cannot lose fat weight and gain muscle mass simultaneously like he has…unless you’re mixing a certain three letter substance and spinach.
Big scalp for Carwin, but I still don’t know anything more about him skills-wise than I did before, other than he can KO good fighters as well as scrubs. I hear he’s a good wrestler, but I’ve never seen it…I guess if he puts hands on you he really doesn’t have to. And we didn’t see if he’s improved his striking defense or take a good punch…still he’s gotta shoot up to #3-4. I maintain that Junior Dos Santos is the best of the new blood, but Lesnar-Carwin will do big business.
Hardy definitely made some fans last night. HIs personality, toughness, and respect in defeat all made me like him.
As for Carwin, I think he looks great. The only way Brock beats him is if he can put him on his back early and keep him there. Randy was able to wrestle with Brock so I’m hopping Shane can as well. Personally I would like to see a guy like Carwin add some Judo to his arsenal. Hip throws from the clinch into top control would be vicious beyond belief.
GSP should feel bad. He won and showed yet again that his grappling is on another level but he needs to do more. I was not bored by the fight and he was trying to finish, but ever since the Serra loss he has seemed a little shy about letting it go. I have no idea why he was not letting fly with the knees and elbows a bit more.
All and all UFC has been pretty fun again.
As for Jake Shields…. I think he will go to the UFC. He really needs to avoid getting KO’d badly. That will completely kill his value on the open market.
As long as he stays strong in the fight he will be in the UFC. Depending on if he wins or not, will depend on how many fights they need to give him before they put him in for a title shot.
It’s just not a money thing for Shields. He is the type of guy who wants to test himself, and he has to be in the UFC in order to do that. And all he needs to be offered is a small clause in his contract that gives him more money if he challenges for a title, and the UFC won’t hurt their pay structure, and it will be more then anything else Strikeforce can guarantee him….
GSP looked like he didn’t want to hurt Hardy. His viciousness is gone. He doesn’t strike anymore on the feet, and against Hardy he looked like he was trying to accumulate points in a Grappler’s Quest match rather than hurt his opponent with vicious elbows.
Right off THE BAT, AlloW ME TO APOLOGIze for THE way this pOST Appears. mY DAMNED KEYBOARD IS SHOT ON this thing as a result OF AN UNFOrtunatE SPILL. WHICH I’LL ADDREss later this week when I PURchase a new LAPTop. UnTIL THEN THOUGH, I’LL HAVE TO look aS IF MY poSTS weRE TYPED BY An illiterATE MADMAN.
BUT, ONTO MY comments ON LAst night’s FIGHTS…
Carwin, made a believer oUT OF ME LAst night.
I wasn’t soLD ON HIm before as An ELITE HEavyweight, but his destruction of MiR ERASED ALL DOUBT IN MY MIND.
AS FOR THose WHO are saying THAT LEsner should still BE A SOLID FAVORIte OVER CarWIN IN THeir matCH UP THIS SUMMER, i HAVE TO ASK WHY?
BECause lesnER is a bit bigger?
IMO that’S NOT GOING TO BE much of a fACtor, if at All.
HELL, he’ll just be A Bigger taRGET FOR caRWIN’s PUNcheS & unLESS Lesner’s chin TURNS OUT to BE the seCOND COMING OF GeORGE chuvalo’S, he WILL Be affECTED BY CARWIN’S SHOTS IN A BAD WAY.
IS LESNER supposed to be favored BECAUSE OF HIS OWN Power?
UM, WHAt amazing POWER IS THAT?
HE used it TO QUIckly G & P a WEE Bit OF A Korean judoka in his debut, then beat up on Mir fOR a minute or so unTIL GETTING SUBMITTED. after which he LANDED one good riGHT hAND to DROP heath herrING ENROUTE to A DECISION WIN. FOLLOWED BY HIS WInning the BELT FROM COTOURE WHO’s BAsiCALLY A LIGHT heavy, duRING WHICH HE AGAIN DROpped his foe, but had to finish wiTH g & P. Then CAME his beatdown oF Mir IN their rematCh.
all of which has SHOwn that lesnER HAs THE PoweR EXPected FROM suCH A BIG Man, bUT NothING oN The scalE OF CArwiN’s One PUNCh FIGHT Ending power.
perhaps It’S lesner’s WRESTLING THAT Has him pegged as THE FAV?
ALTHough we hAVE YET to see it IN HIS FIghts, wasn’t carWIN ALSO A naTIONAL CHAMPIONShip wresTLer?
SO ISN’T IT LIKELY THAT HE’LL KNOW HOW TO DEFEnd against LESner’S streNgTHS enough to get the pROCeedings BACK oN THEIR FeeT where CARWIN’S STAND UP wILL BE (MUCH) suPERIOR?
PLUS There’S the whOle DEBilitating illnESS, surgery caUSED LONG layoFF TO BE CONSIDERED.
WHILe leSNER MAY appear as FIT AS a FIDDLE to THE NAKED EYE, WE HAVe no IDEA HOW MUCH All of THAT hAs takeN OUt of him. My OWN GUESS WOULd be a fairly significant AMOUNT.
THERE are nO “Sure things” in the FIGHT Game, but I peRSONALLy believe thaT it’s carwin who should be a soLID FAVORITe in this forthcoming clASH of the mastodons.
GReaT PoSt….NOT!
Was at the event last night. My comments:
1) Overall, was not impressed with the fights. Overall, very little energy at the event because most of the fights were, frankly, not very good.
2) Palhares is a dick.
3) Pellegrino’s head spike should be outlawed in the Unified Rules.
4) Fitch. I saw someone in the audience napping during his 15 minute pajama party.
5) This is not exclusively a NJ thing since a significant number of fans came from NY, but most of the audience there were missing some chromosomes.
6) I felt GSP was too nice to dislocate Hardy’s shoulder. Had he done so, it wouldn’t have been the situation as Palhares’ extended crank. The neanderthals in the audience were demanding it.
7) I like Dan Hardy. Guy has got some heart and I have to respect a guy that walks out to classic Oi.
8) Mir getting his ass kicked made my night.
9) I still prefer watching a PPV at home. Can’t see shit through the cage.
I agree that MMA is better on TV. I’m good for about 1 live event a year. I’m going to a Bellator event in a month or two. Cheap tickets for about 10 rows from the cage. Still not a great view. Had similar tickets for a previous Bellator event and things still got in the way.
You need to sit about 10-20 rows off the floor. 10 rows off the floor at center court or center ice is the sweet spot. Otherwise you’re just there for the atmosphere. Which is great. Nothing like a big fight live.
I have done that as well, the last time the UFC was in Newark. It also sucked. In a way, sitting in the 20th odd row view was almost worse. The top of the cage got in the way of the fighters heads, so I could barely catch any of the striking. And of course whenever the fight was against the cage, I couldn’t see shit. But in order to see a big screen I had to tilt my head at a bizarre angle.
The “atmosphere” would have been a field day for anthropologists looking for more missing links.
Frankly, I’m amazed that more people don’t complain about stuff like this, but I suspect it is because most MMA don’t actually watch other sports. I’ve gone to many live games for all the major sports and all of them, without question, offer a generally superior macro view of the action; it gives you something a TV view simply cannot.
MMA, especially through the cage, is the exact opposite. You literally can’t see shit, and even when you can it is still vastly inferior to watching on TV.
You are right on the money Grape. Every seat at a MMA fight in a cage is an obstructed view. To make matters worse, the UFC makes the brilliant choice to place their cameramen in between the posts in the middle of the fence, thereby adding 2 to 3 more “posts” to obstruct the view. The cameramen should be directly behind the posts. The cage still prevents a good view, no matter how u place the cameras however.
wHILE gsp should be admired FOR HIS FANTASTic groundgame & his DOMINATION OF HIS DEVision, i think that his reign HAS Put dana & THE BOYS IN A BIT OF a quandry AS FAR AS HIS BEing a headliner, HIS FUTURE abiliTY TO PUt asses in seATS & more imPORTANTLY, SELL PPVS.
LET’S be HONEST, the GUY hasn’t beeN involved in A competetive NOR AN EXCITING Fight in a very LONG time. add to that hIS RECENT RUN OF NON-FINISHES & i THINK GSP IS turning himself iNTO a TOUGH Sell.
i MEAN, you caN HAVE ALl the skills IN THE WORLD & be head & shoulders above THE REST IN your sport, BUT IF YOU’RE DULL YOUR Value gOES DOWN.
ONe only NEeds to look to my OTHER FAV fightsport & SEE THAt WHILE IVAN CARLDERONE is a magniFISENT, unbeatEn CHAMPION he’LL NEVER HEADLINE A PPV. NOR be featurEd regularly on hbo or showtime. hell, he’s luCKY IF ANY OF His bOUTS ARE SHOWN IN ANY Capasity HERE Stateside.
americanS & THe VAST maJORITY OF NORTH AMERICANS IN GENERAl want aCTION. And, with his style & TOTAL LACK OF power CAlderone can’T DELIver thaT.
WHILE I DOUBT THAT gsp will ever find himself in the SAME BOAT as CALDERONE, UNLEss something CHANGES HE MIGHt just find himself no loNGER ABLe to HEADLINE UFC Ppvs.
just a THOUGht.
lasT NIGht was TOUGH TRYing to juggle two premium channel fightcards and The ufc, buT i ManAGED ( THank God for TWO TUNER dvrS!!!).
anyhow, gamboa LOOKED LIKE A TOTALLY DIFFERENT fighter than thE ONE WHo got beat up LAST DECEMBER. OBVIOUSLY, HE CAN\’T cUT TO 135. WHIch, i know, is amazing considering he WAS A CHAMpION AT 122 not aLL THAT LONG AGO, but…
he\’ll be outsiZED & out powereD BY MANY AT 140, BUT I still CAN SEE Him PICKING UP A BELT if mATCHED RIGHT. I MEAN TELL ME HE COULDN\’T BEAT A MALIgnaggi or maybe oUTbox a mAIDANA…
ANDRE DIRRELL IS A LOUSY acTOr.
the THUMB OF AA\’S GLOVE IS ALL THAT cAUGHT DIRRELLS CHIN & WHILE aa\’s a powerfuL GUY, IT WAsn\’t NEARLY ENOUGH TO KO dirrell INTO \”SPASMS\” & SUCH. hELL, IT WAS ALMOST A TOTAL WHIff. IT juST grazed his chin for PETE\’S SAKe!
hAD dirrell haD the heart to want to finish the fight, AA DEsERVED To have a point deducted, BUT THAT\’S IT. BUT DIRRELL COULD FEEL AA COMING ON IN The championship ROUNDS & He wanted no part of it. so, hE TOOK THE EASY WAY OUT. AND MADE all those folks who PERFORM IN B movIES, soaps & dAMN, EVEN in porn (!) look like OSCAR WORTHY TALENTs.
“hAD dirrell haD the heart to want to finish the fight, AA DEsERVED To have a point deducted, BUT THAT\’S IT. BUT DIRRELL COULD FEEL AA COMING ON IN The championship ROUNDS & He wanted no part of it. so, hE TOOK THE EASY WAY OUT.”
I suppose I see your humor attempt and this is my acknowledgement of it.
“gamboa LOOKED LIKE A TOTALLY DIFFERENT fighter than thE ONE WHo got beat up LAST DECEMBER. OBVIOUSLY, HE CAN\’T cUT TO 135.”
I think you’re mixing Gamboa up with Joan Guzman.
fluyid, i DID INDEED.
WERE THERE ANY OF ThOSE CHEESY LITTLE EMOCOns on this site I WOULD POST at leAST A COUPLE OF THOSE RED FAced ONES. lol.
THANKS foR THE HEADS UP.
That cleaRED UP, what do you think of GUZMAN AT 140?
as for gamboa, it appears that he looked qUITE SHARP Last night in germany AGAINST THat rugged argenTINian.
lET’S HOPE arum GETS off his duff & just makes gamboa – LOPEZ asap. while I dON’T SEE EITHEr one of them losing any time soon, SHIT HAPPENs. you knoW?
MAke the FIGHT NoW as a bIG HBO event figHT.
I KNOW ARUM’S TRYING TO hold out ’til he can milk a ppv out OF IT, BUT…
I don’t think that Gamboa is going to face the most serious challenges for a while. I think another year of building his name and reputation is going to happen. That seems to be the way of the promoter.
Not quite sure what to think about Joan Guzman. He did great last night, though. I didn’t see that coming at all.
I’m not Fluiyd, but I think Guzman is too small for 140, especially with the guys there. I mean, in that first fight with Funeka, he was in big trouble. Now imagine him in there with someone bigger, faster, and more technically skilled at 140 like Devon Alexander – No hope whatsoever. Guzman was a murderous fighter at 122 and while he had success at 130 and 135, he doesn’t belong anywhere above that.
I think everyone would like Gamboa/Lopez except for Lopez and his more direct, in contact people. I think they’re terrified of Gamboa and of Cellestino Caballero. He’s a good fighter though, don’t get me wrong. I just think after they barely got by everyone’s favorite African 122lb journeyman that they don’t want to put him in with anyone who can hit any harder than that.
I enjoyed the HBO card last night and was at the Abraham/Dirrell fight in Detroit, so I have nothing to say about the UFC show in particular. Cayo/Maidana was a great fight – Maidana is like the junior welterweight Vic Darchinyan with his heavy hands, basic grinding style, and fearlessness. Love to watch him fight. Joan Guzman probably earned a blackballing from the big networks too.
Great article on Fitch. I haven’t posted on anything in a long time but this guy has compelled me to be vocal. I don’t want to hear about all the reasons Fitch can give as to why he chose to be so boring… again, if you are not ready to fight, don’t fight. Don’t give me some petty excuses as to why you didn’t fight to your full potential… again.
They really need to cut Fitch now while the backlash is growing. There is zero upside with him. He has no personality to speak of (or promote), he refuses to fight others in the division (Koscheck, Swick), he will never be remotely competitive with the champion and oh yeah – HE’S BORING THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS OUT OF 95% OF YOUR PAYING FANS! Meanwhile, he remains in a division with his buddies Koscheck and Swick and they refuse to fight each other – another situation I despise. They fight all the time in sparring, why not get paid; are they not man enough to step back if their friend can beat them? The editor in charge of putting together a ‘highlight reel’ for him must be suffering greatly trying to find something, anything other than a landslide of takedowns.
I had to go back 3 years (8 fights ago) to find one good Fitch fight, Roan Carneiro (there’s a quality fighter for ya, where’s he ranking now) that was finish and the most enjoyable fight in that span; unless you count GSP merciless annihilation in there, that was fun to watch. Maybe the UFC can work out a deal with CBS to show his next fight; the senior citizen community could use some help with insomnia; and it’ll convice them that mma isn’t violent at all!
What makes it worse is Rogan DEFENDS this garbage. No, Joe, I’m not a meathead, I love great ground game and ground and pound but Fitch doesn’t do that. He makes zero effort to do anything other than control position and get takedowns. It’s extremely lame to watch. If UFC insists on keeping him, put him on prelims and leave him there until he figures it out.
Fitch’s only saving grace?
Mike Pierce is worse.
They can’t get rid of Fitch. It would be stupid too.
He does have to be willing to fight Koscheck. If Alves is out, it is a perfect #1 contenders fight.
Telling your promoter that you are unwilling to fight certain fighters is flat out wrong (within reason). Of course a guy just starting out shouldn’t be fighting a top tier guy. And I can understand the reverse of that. Outside of that, they need to be willing to fight anybody, teammate or not.
They absolutely could cut Fitch, there is no positive to keep him aboard – none. And honestly, other than the 5-10% hard core fans complaining, who would even notice he was gone? I’d rather see Alessio Sakara fight than Fitch.
I could name many many other fighters I’d rather see fight GSP than Alves or Fitch. We’ve seen those fights, those 2 guys have shown nothing to suggest they would do any better. I personally love the idea of GSP destroying all competitors in the division. Why is there a cry for any champion to change divisions or retire just because they roll off a few one-sided wins? We all know styles make fights and anything can happen. Georges is the best fighter in the world, IMO, and I want to see him take on all types of competitors, not a revolving door of the same top 5.
Take Rich Franklin, we all knew the outcome of the 2nd Silva fight would be the same – nothing had changed. Rich is a great fighter, but Joe Silva continues to find creative ways to use his talent without clogging up the 185 lb. division.
Just like Mike Tyson’s unbeatable persona during his glory days brought a huge amount of fans to boxing, MMA can do the same. So let these champs give multiple defenses until they get bored doing it. I love it.
Fitch is fighting top competition almost everytime out and dominating. There is no reason to get rid of a guy who can continue to do this. Other fighters look good, and get finishes that are not as good as Fitch. This is the case because of style matchups, and not fighting competition on the same level.
“Why is there a cry for any champion to change divisions or retire just because they roll off a few one-sided wins?”
A few is usually referred to as 3 or 4 . GSP has dominated pretty much the entire welterweight top ten in the last 5 years. Hardy, Penn, Alves, Fitch, Koscheck, Hughes, Serra, Miller, Pariysian, Hieron are all fighters he dominated with the argument of koscheck and Pariysian being the closest fights. He dominated the rematches of both his losses, and he looks absolutely unstoppable at the weight class. Its time for him to move up for a challenge, as it is time for Silva to test the waters at 205.
Tyson was fed a steady stream of scrubs creating his persona. It was hightened by wins over the names spinks and Holmes even when there weren’t the best in his division. Tyson was great, but comparing his accomplishments in boxing to the type of competition GSP has dominated in MMA is pretty inaccurate. I don’t wanna see GSP fed people like Condit, Kampman, Daley, Ellenberger, or Saunders when I know what the outcome is going to be.
Normally I would defend fighters doing whatever it takes to win and maybe Fitch should just fight prelims until he develops a more well rounded game (like trying to advance positions, attempt submissions on far lesser opponents, attempt to strike better on the feet). But his complancency is mind-numbing in a way I’ve never seen in such an elite fighter. The GSP comparison confuses me as we see him repeatedly look for ways to advance position and attempt submissions in lieu of just throwing punches that only have minor cumulative effect and holding opponents in one position. I really just hope to Joe Silva finds ways to motivate him I suppose.
Just as clarification, I am completely aware that Tyson was indeed fed scrubs to pad his record. My only point is that the persona his management created, this beastly killer, helped create more boxing fans. MMA does not have that so much; Anderson Silva, maybe, but he doesn’t seem to be super popular for some reason. And Fedor, but until he’s got a UFC contract few will know him. I’m all for letting champs go through the deep end of the division pool and they shouldn’t be pushed out of their own weight class due to their success. Why push so hard just to see these guys hopefully lose anyway? I’m just enjoying seeing definitive champions in GSP, Silva. BJ is right there (he’s had 4 title fights now, not as unbelievable as some would have us believe).
The solution to the boring-yet-dominant effect lies in better match-making. If you match Anderson Silva against Thales Leites or Patrick Cote, GSP against Dan Hardy, or Jon Fitch against guys like Mike Peirce and Ben Saunders, don’t expect fireworks.
Guys like GSP and Fitch need a step-up in competition, and perhaps a new weight class altogether.
What would the new weight class be?
Middleweight.
Nuts.
See above comments about notions of GSP at middleweight. Anderson Silva is 215-220 pounds–he’s bigger than Lyoto Machida.
GSP is about 185.
Who can stop GSP? Koscheck? Nah Johny Hendricks? Negative
I think the lightest MMA guy today who has a fair chance to defeat GSP is Chael Sonnen.
Jake Shields would be a good addition to UFC MW. Just avoid Chael for now and I’m sure he’ll be top 4 instantly. I can definitely see him finish Demian Maia.
I think I know why Dana suggested a fight between Fitch and Koscheck. They (Fitch, Koscheck, Swick) are nice guys and they may be too nice to be a champ. If they want to push themselves to the limit like GSP does, they need someone trying to kill them all the time.
I think people are making too much out of the size difference between Lesnar and Carwin – Carwin was standing there in bare feet wearing a pair of shorts while Brock had 3 layers and dress shoes with at least a 1-inch heel.
Speaking of heels…
I was disappointed by GSP’s fight, both by his performance and the poor level of the challenger. That and Fitch really sank the card for me personally. Though there was good stuff elsewhere on the show I didn’t feel I got my money’s worth.
I don’t get all the hate for Fitch coming off this fight. He beat the crap out of Saunders and completely dominated the fight. He is easily one of the very best in the world in his weightclass and the UFC would be stupid to let him go just because he did not finish in a 3 round fight. There are tons of decision on every card. People today are just much harder to finish than ever before.
Also, if you get rid of Fitch, a guy like Mike Pierce is going to slide right in and pick up right where Fitch left off. Very good wrestler/fighter who struggles to finish, can beat everyone but the very best guys. Instead of getting rid of Fitch the UFC should get rid of guys who can’t wrestle or don’t have any takedown defense. Those guys have no future in the UFC or MMA anyway. If you want to see Fitch in exciting fight all you have to do is bring in more wrestlers for him to face.