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The storyboard post-UFC 110
By Zach Arnold | February 22, 2010
Before we touch on the Australia show, let’s take a look at the news regarding Strikeforce’s next big event…
One report states that Strikeforce will run an event in Nashville, Tennessee on 4/17 with Jake Shields vs. Dan Henderson as the main event, along with Bobby Lashley (and Herschel Walker?) on the fight card. Fedor is not expected to appear at the event.
Henderson vs. Shields should be fine and I don’t see how Fedor on the fight card would have been a huge plus. Sure, it would be nice to see him fight Alistair Overeem, but I’ve always counted on that fight happening in DREAM because of the amount of money that K-1 could put up to make that fight happen. A suggestion perhaps — have the fight happen in Japan on the same day as a Strikeforce CBS event and just air the taped fight on the CBS telecast that same day.
(BTW, please do not have the comments section devolve in how much Strikeforce or Fedor sucks. I may even delete some comments if it devolves into such a commentating state. Thank you in advance.)
Now, onto the UFC show in Australia…
There are good days and then there are bad days. However, I would hardly characterize this as the golden period lately for Greg Jackson. Clay Guida didn’t look so sharp, Joe Stevenson continues his uneven path to nowhere (not sure what can be done with him), and Keith Jardine is Keith Jardine. Rashad Evans and Georges St. Pierre are natural talents and for as much praise as their trainers have received, you either have it or you don’t when it comes to becoming an elite level fighter like those two gentlemen are. The trainers can only help so much.
I remember when George Sotiropoulos last fought in the states and won, people online were cringing at the prospects of him fighting someone like a Joe Stevenson or higher-level competition… and to have it booked in Australia, no less. I’m glad to see George win in dominant fashion and prove his critics wrong. He’s deserved the good things that he has earned in the fight game.
What’s next for Michael Bisping? Unlike elite fighters like Evans and St. Pierre, Bisping desperately needs help with training and he needs to shake things up. I’m not sure where he will end up, but if he keeps his current situation status quo, he will not benefit from it at all. With the UFC running less cards in the UK, Bisping’s value drops significantly. If they run in the UK twice a year, I’m not sure it’s enough to have him and Dan Hardy as the two British “aces.” Yes, Bisping’s opponent was Wanderlei Silva, but Wanderlei is not nearly as aggressive as a fighter as he was during his PRIDE days. How damaging do you view Bisping’s loss?
It’s been a great week for UFC in terms of business and in terms of fights. Of course, the Aussie big broadsheets will highlight articles like “Smell the blood!” The sickening roar for gore and Final blow silences a crowd wired for blood, but you couldn’t ask for much more if you are Zuffa as far as the Australian debut was concerned.
However, it’s been an ugly week for the Fertittas in the American legal system. Ouch.
Topics: Media, MMA, StrikeForce, UFC, Zach Arnold | 65 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |
What Legal problems??? This is the first time I heard of this.
I hope Fedor fights soon. Kind of missing him fighting.
“and I don’t see how Fedor on the fight card would have been a huge plus.”
5 million viewers isn’t a plus? If Fedor isn’t booked that night, will it be because of the revenue sharing contract Strikeforce signed with M1?
Jake Shields turned away viewers and he gets rewarded with a main event slot? Hopefully Dan beats him up real bad and makes a good main event out of it, but if Jake has his way, millions of sets will be turning off before the fight is over. How did CBS sign off on this? If CBS is as meddling as the internet media proclaims they do, how is Jake even appearing on the next CBS card?
With that kind of main event for the CBS show, the UFC could run a stacked Fight Night event on Spike and beat them in the ratings.
** Rashad Evans and Georges St. Pierre are natural talents and for as much praise as their trainers have received, you either have it or you don’t when it comes to becoming an elite level fighter like those two gentlemen are. **
could not say it any better, just like football coaches need that great qb for a run of superbowl titles!
Bisping is a lot better than people give him credit for. Forget about wins and losses for a moment and look at his actual fights. Hendo’s epic KO aside, Bisping basically fought Wanderlei Silva and Rashad Evans to a standstill. One monster KO and a couple of razor thin decision losses do not mean the guy is a bum.
He’s definitely still got a future in the MW division. He’s not going to beat Anderson Silva anytime soon, but he is capable of hanging with anyone else in the MW division.
There’s a report and big debate about Bisping’s loss and where he goes from here on the UK Telegraph site at:
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/sport/garethadavies/100005509/ufc-110-bisping-ambition-remains-after-suffering-wrong-end-of-wanderlei-points-loss/
Most comments seem to suggest Bisping has talent, good stand up, wrestling and G’n’P but vastly under utilizes these skills. He’ll also need to move away from the Wolfslair to a camp in the US if he want’s to evolve further.
In hindsight Bisping should not have fought Wanderlie given that it was possible, if not likely, he would end up in this spot. In other words, what was the upside of a win vs a loss? A win would not have moved in past the three or four fighters who might get a shot at Anderson Silva or whomever holds that belt. The way to move up is to beat someone on that list.
And that brings me to Bellfort and Sonnen. I believe they should square off and the winner takes on winner of Silva/Maia.
1) I guess we are going to find out real quick if Dan Henderson is a draw or not. I think the live gate is going to suffer with him as a headline instead of Fedor. I think the ratings will slightly suffer as well. Strikeforce needs to be improving on their ratings, which I believe can only be accomplished by having Fedor in the main event.
2) If I was Jake Shields, and I have said this before…. I would turn down the Dan Henderson fight. It’s outside of his best weight class. He has Strikeforce by the balls right now in that they need him for CBS. They are not treating him well by trying to get him a loss before he leaves. i saw screw them and demand Scott Smith for a fight… lol
3) After the last CBS show, people were commenting on how Jake Shields would not be on CBS again because his performance was so boring and because the ratings went down due to his fight. And now he is acceptable as a main event? I don’t think so.
4) Bisping can’t be fixed by technique. A lot of it is mental. He backs up and doesn’t have a killer instinct. He is afraid to get hit.
Cindy O commented on how she heard that there is currently in-fighting going on between Coker and M-1. I wouldn’t be shocked to hear this. Wherever Fedor goes, problems randomly arise.
Bisping probably should try a new camp. He seems to do the same thing every fight and never has a gameplan.
I think Bisping vs Franklin is a perfect main or co-main event for the next UK trip.
I doubt Hendo/Shields will be the main event for the CBS show. SF really needs to deliver a rating this time out and sell some commercials. If that is the main you can bet the undercard will be all gimmick matches. Walker vs Canseco in prime time.
God damn 45,
I try not to bash you, but what the fuck is your obsession with reporting on the thoughts of trolls from other forums? First MMA Logic from BE, and now Cindy O from the UG. Are you going to start quoting well known posters from Sherdog and Fightlinker next? I hear DrunkenMeatFist had some interesting things to say over the weekend, and JoeSonsCup is always good for a quote or two.
Ridiculous troll is ridiculous
Man, that didn’t take 45 long.
I live in Nashville and am so fucking pissed off that Fedor won’t be fighting. It was a once in a lifetime opportunity to see the best mma fighter in history LIVE and IN PERSON, and instead we have to settle for fucking Henderson v Shields. I don’t even know if I want to go anymore. What a letdown.
IMHO this Nashville MMA is a troll job, I bet Strikeforce will announce Fedor vs Werdum on CBS this week.
Wolverine–one of my law school professors is also a boxing judge and writes for a boxing/mma website in his spare time, and he told me yesterday that the TN commissioner told him that there are serious negotiations going on btwn TN and Strikeforce to bring the show to Nashville 4/17.
Well, I meant this “no-Fedor on CBS card” is a troll job. The show itself might be in Nashville.
oh on that I have no idea. I will say though that Ed Clay runs the biggest mma gym in Nashville and I doubt he is trolling.
So true about Greg Jackson. MMA is a sport where guys are always looking for the holy water. I think he trains too many guys as well as should be more selective and smart in who he pushes to the UFC. Todd Lally has it right because he is smart enough to only push his good college wrestlers into the UFC. Guys like that will win more often than not and make him look good in the process. AKA is also doing this for the most part but they also waste their time on the guys like Swick and Baroni.
Good point about Bisping also. They have some other British fighters that are more exciting and talented imo. Andre Winner looks a like a good prospect and Terry Etim has good potential too, plus both always make for exciting fights.
Why is SF going to Nashville? It’s just not a great market. To put it in perspective, UFC had BJ Penn headline in Memphis and their gate was only $1.5 million. That was the lowest gate for a domestic PPV event since UFC 73 (2007).
Holy Jumping hate fest. Cindy O has connections to Zuffa…. How is she a troll? She has even gotten a quote from Joe Silva in the past…. Which makes her about the only person to do so in the last 3+ years (to my knowledge). That is about as little of a troll as somebody can be….
The fact is that some weird rumors have been going around about this CBS card. And others have verified that “Nashville MMA” is legit. He does a radio show down there as well.
Where there is smoke, there is fire….
First off, can’t we wait for someone with credibility to report this before we believe. A freakin’ Underground message board post and a anonymous Twitter account passing for automatic believability just makes me sad for humanity.
And as with all things Fedor related the goal post moves. He went from being a overpaid dud because he was never in the UFC to have any fans to being so well known and important his absence will kill the CBS relationship. And the guy who did have the Zuffa star making machine behind him (with an episode of TUF centered around him even) spells doom and gloom? I thought Fedor was a total failure in his first CBS fight and being the 2nd biggest story out of UFC 100 meant something? Hmmm.
Oh wow she’s connected to Zuffa because she got a quote from Joe Silva. Now that changes everything~! Silva was just so thrilled a possible real live woman was speaking to him I’m sure.
And wow the guy has a unknown radio show in Tennessee, that is amazing. Next stop BlogTalkRadio here he comes~!
Mark,
Name anybody else who has gotten a Joe Silva quote in the last 3 years. I really can’t think of anybody…
And nobody is saying that Fedor is some huge draw. He isn’t. The show still suffers without him on it. mostly because Shields is such a bad main event. It reminds me of the 2nd CBS show, which was Lawler/Smith…. And did horrible ratings.
I think it would be beneficial to CBS & SF to have Fedor on the show. Virtually all of the promotion for the November show focused on how Fedor is the best in the world and invincible. The fans who saw that and tuned in saw him with a bloody face KO a very big guy in brutal fashion. I would think those fans will want to see more Fedor.
If CBS hypes the show during March Madness they’ll likely reach many of the same fans and get them back for another Fedor fight. I think it is a tougher sell to build Hendo vs Shields as many fans were likely disappointed in Shields’ first fight. Also you don’t have much video of Hendo you can use to promote him.
My point is that I think Fedor will be on the show and the rumors are just saber rattling from one or both sides.
Tennessee has had some interesting fights held there. Don’t forget it was Mike Tyson’s refuge. Could Coker be trying to get the commission to not test for PED’s and do Fedor v Overeem there? He can still sell the TV rights in Japan and/or have DREAM help defray the cost of doing that fight by giving them TV rights.
Fedor/Overeem is the fight Coker has to do. He can’t keep promoting Fedor as the best fighter in the world and have him not even be the champion of his league. If they don’t do the Overeem fight just strip Overeem and make the next Fedor fight for the belt.
Shouldn’t he save Fedor/Overeem for PPV? Once Fedor/Overeem happens…. There is nothing interesting left.
And even that fight is more based on hype then Overeem’s MMA results the last 3 years…
Wasn’t Silva Meltzer’s UFC stooge for years? Plus, who cares if she knows him. This isn’t UFC news it is Strikeforce/M-1 news that Joe Silva doesn’t know about first hand. The real question is what has she reported in the past to warrant any believability. I can claim I share a bunkbed with Joe Silva and shave Dana White’s head every morning for him, it doesn’t make it true.
This show is absolutely nothing like Lawler/Smith II.
First off, Dan Henderson is far more well known than either of those two. Secondly, if Bobby Lashley is also on the show he’s another well known name. So you’ve got a guy who was on the biggest UFC PPV ever and a guy who was on the biggest WWE PPV ever. Whereas the Elite show without Kimbo or Carrano had a main event of one guy who washed out of the UFC before it got popular against a guy most famous for a prelim fight years ago and a co-main event featuring Nick Diaz fighting a can. Actually that’s better than having Fedor. Remember, the only people who tuned in to see him last time were old people waiting for the 11 PM newscast and got confused, right?
I agree with you that Jake Sheilds is totally the wrong choice to put him in there with, but he’s also their Middleweight champion so they really don’t have much of a choice and are probably praying to God Hendo takes the belt.
Cindy O has been correct on numerous reports in the past. She also been completely wrong and acted like a groupie too.
In the end does anybody believe there isn’t some in fighting between M1 and Strikeforce. M1 has been known to step on toes in business relations in the past.
Mark you should probably stop before you post next time instead of getting all riled because you have to discredit 45.
45 left out the part where CindyO claimed Jerry Millen got canned from M-1, leading an actual journalist to pick up a phone and determine that was completely untrue. Funny how she and mmalogic can be proven wrong so many times and still be regarded as “credible sources” by certain fanboys.
The only way I can see this Fedor rumour panning out is if SF/CBS are planning to run another card in May or June. They could effectively use the first CBS card as a promo for the second one.
Every MMA journalist has been wrong. They have all reported news that has come out to be untrue.
People are really getting in denial about Fedor. The fighter’s management team has a long storied history of issues with multiple promoters. Their contract demands have crippled organizations. Their business practices have raised many eyebrows across the sport.
To think something isn’t going on is comical at best. No news is never good news. And Coker has been extremely quiet lately, even for himself.
Why isn’t he ahead of this story? This is his big show of the year and negative rumors have been circling for over a week now. It takes one 5 minute phone call to Dann Stupp at MMA Junkie…. And this all ends. The fact he hasn’t, along with the rumors, makes many people think their is trouble in paradise.
Mark,
I do think that the actual number for Fedor’s fight was inflated because of the overrun into the TV news. But I don’t think we need to have that argument again. A solid 4-million or so people tuned into the full broadcast and many likely to see Fedor.
I remember when I first saw Fedor and how I wanted to see more and more of him. I think many of the newer fans who have maybe seen some of his fights on YouTube or on PRIDE tapes of their MMA buddies will be dying to see him again.
Smoogy makes a good point about setting up for a May or June show. But I think SF needs to put up big numbers here and not bank of getting a future date from CBS.
I think PPV for Fedor/Overeem is the wrong move. I think SF needs to build right now and not think of PPV until early next year. Maybe have Fedor in May and August then build someone for him on PPV in January or Feb 2011. Maybe you get Couture by that point? Maybe you build Lashley and throw him in there or Hendo beats Shileds and Mousasi and you do that fight.
(meant to put this above)
If you put Fedor at the top of the card you can justify (sort of) Walker vs Canseco to bring in viewers to see Fedor. You can even (and this is disgusting to even say but it would work with good finishes) have the Walker/Canseco winner fight Lashley in the summer. Then let Lashley in there with Fedor on PPV.
I’ve reached out to some people I know who do stuff for M-1, and all they knew (or wanted to disclose) was Fedor and M-1 were in talks for an upcoming fight.
Vague, but you’d think they’d mention SF by name, too.
She isn’t a journalist, she’s a message board poster. Journalists use their real names and have reputations to worry about so they can’t go overboard promoting stories that aren’t confirmed. CindyO can go delete her account and come in under a new name if she’s wrong and gets trashed for it. Of course she probably won’t get trashed for it because like with Logic you’ll all selectively remember “broken news stories”. And nobody has pointed to anything true she’s broken yet.
You’re also forgetting to include there is no report of this coming from any credible sources (ie Sherdog, Gross, Meltzer, MMAWeekly, Bloody Elbow, ect.) Is Coker supposed to patrol Twitter looking for rumors now?
Zach,
Would you care to elaborate on Zuffa’s recent legal woes that you mention?
Thanks.
The real issue here is why not even one fight is signed for the April Strikeforce show.
Bisping’s loss to Wanderlei is huge. It solidifies the theory that he is a mid-level fighter and cannot break into the top echelon of fighters in UFC. He will not change his training camps, he’s far too cocky and arrogant. This showed in his post-fight comments as he believed he beat Wanderlei after nearly being submitted at the end of the second round and barely avoiding a TKO loss at the end of the third.
She isn’t a journalist, she’s a message board poster. Journalists use their real names and have reputations to worry about so they can’t go overboard promoting stories that aren’t confirmed. CindyO can go delete her account and come in under a new name if she’s wrong and gets trashed for it. Of course she probably won’t get trashed for it because like with Logic you’ll all selectively remember “broken news stories”. And nobody has pointed to anything true she’s broken yet.
You’re also forgetting to include there is no report of this coming from any credible sources (ie Sherdog, Gross, Meltzer, MMAWeekly, Bloody Elbow, ect.) Is Coker supposed to patrol Twitter looking for rumors now?
If you want to believe people on the internet, there’s no getting through to you. But at least weigh that against how little time real MMA business people spend dicking around online. Dana occasionally tweets and does a vlog once a month. Scott Coker only shows his face at weigh ins. Joe Silva does 1 interview in 3 years supposedly. UFC employees are openly discouraged by Zuffa to not spill the beans to the MMA internet media. But there’s a group of people who spend time posting gossip and making MSPaint charts who really do work for Zuffa? Does that make any sense whatsoever?
klown’s updated HW rankings, based purely on actual wins over ranked opponents:
1. F. Emilianenko
2. Lesnar
3. Mir
4. Velasquez
5. Nogueira
6. Couture
7. Sylvia
8. Rogers
9. Arlovski
10. Dos Santos
11. Werdum
12. Carwin
13. Gonzaga
14. Herring
15. Kongo
16. CroCop
17. Barnett
18. A. Emilianenko
19. Rizzo
20. Monson
21. Kharitanov
22. Overeem
Points of potential controversy:
* Fedor at #1: Until somebody beats him, or he lapses into inactivity (the arbitrary cut off point I choose is 3 years… perhaps that’s too long?) he is safe at #1.
* Couture at #6: I rank fighters at every weight class in which they’ve competed in the last 3 years, to avoid confusion in case a fighter returns to his old class.
* Sylvia at #7: His losses are to the cream of the crop and I don’t penalize fighters for losing to higher-ranked competition. Losing to a higher ranked opponent simply reconfirms they deserve to be ranked higher than you! As for the Mercer loss, I pretend that never happened, and I use the strange circumstances surrounding the rules of the fight to discount it…
* Barnett at #17: Simple. He’s beaten none of the fighters ranked above him. (Couture was over 3 years ago, plus Barnett tested positive for roids! And he’s 1-2 vs Nogueira). Until Barnett beats a fighter ranked #1-#16, he belongs right where he is.
* Overeem at #22: Since Barnett got busted for the 3rd time in his career, Overeem has replaced him for the status of “Most over-ranked fighter in MMA”. If the ranking system is based on the ranker’s personal subjective opinion of how a fighter would do in hypothetical fantasy match-ups, there is case to be made for Overeem. But if the system is based on wins over ranked opponents, there is simply no justification whatsoever for placing Overeem in the Top 10, as most rankings do.
Now I’m not saying I agree with them, but I applaud your rankings klown. At least you backed up your opinion with information.
Excellent rankings, Klown.
I think if Lesnar or Velasquez beat each other in convincing fashion, that fighter should be ranked #1.
klown wrote: “Zach,
Would you care to elaborate on Zuffa’s recent legal woes that you mention?
Thanks.”
Probably these two new lawsuits involving the Fertittas:
http://www.lvrj.com/business/greenspun-affiliate-sues-station-casinos-84765547.html
and
http://mmapayout.com/2010/02/zuffa-named-in-bankruptcy-fraud-complaint/
Thanks Edub and Roadblock. If folks are interested I keep similar lineages for the other weight classes, but they tend to look a bit messier than HW.
Thanks Ivan. I wouldn’t be surprised if Zach (or yourself?) had something more in the works on the Fertittas’ legal adventures!
I would remove Couture & Sylvia from the Top 10. Couture because he changed weight classes and Sylvia because he got so fat he isn’t the same fighter anymore. Have it look something like this…
1) Fedor
2) Lesnar
3) Mir
4) Velasquez
5) Nogueira
6) Rogers
7) Dos Santos
8) Arlovski
9) Werdum
10) Carwin
45 those are mine except switch dos santos and Rogers.
Klown yea man I’d love to see em. If you don’t wanna post them on here feel free to email me at [email protected].
Cindy Ortiz (“CindyO”) routinely mass emails out some very strange pro-Dana White emails. I have received quite a few of them.
Here’s one: http://i46.tinypic.com/v6lrvo.jpg
As of this weekend, the Tennessee commission hadn’t been notified about the possibility of a Strikeforce show in Nashville. That’s not to say it’s impossible, but with less than two months until the expected event date, you’d think they’d have a venue locked up.
I wouldn’t be sure about them definitely having a place locked up.
On September 8th of last year (2 months before the last CBS card) there were still rumors that the card was going to be in October in Newark, and the arena in Newark was booked (but not announced and tickets weren’t on sale). And the show actually happened in Chicago, but that was also announced less than 2 months before that card, so the last CBS card was put together/finalized quickly also.
Boy this did turn into a Strikeforce/Fedor sucks thread quite quickly
I know, I want to scream.
1) Who said Fedor sucks? Nobody has. If anything, people are saying he is needed for the CBS card.
Dann-
I am sorry but that is not true (in re: post 45).
I heard about this yesterday (Sunday) from someone who knows the TN commissioner and heard it from him. So to say the commission didn’t know anything about it as of this weekend is a straight up falsehood, unless by commission you somehow exclude the commissioner, and by weekend you somehow exclude Sunday.