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UFC 109 (2/6 Las Vegas at Mandalay Bay Events Center)

By Zach Arnold | February 6, 2010

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Topics: Media, MMA, UFC, Zach Arnold | 63 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |

63 Responses to “UFC 109 (2/6 Las Vegas at Mandalay Bay Events Center)”

  1. EJ says:

    “Jeremy Horn submitted Sonnen twice about the same time Santiago fought Leben. So what? I wouldn’t bet on Santiago losing to Leben again, nor would any sane individual.

    The difference is, as Sonnen said in an interview leading up to this fight, opportunity. Nothing but. He got a shot against Filho in a fight he was supposed to lose and made the most of it. All these derided non-UFC middleweights would likely have done as well or better in similar situations. If you really think Sonnen is an elite middleweight fighter who can even be competitive with Anderson Silva, you’re laughably out of your element.”

    Really why? because Santiago beat up a couple of overated non UFC MW’s. Stop it it’s embarrasing the way some of you fans continue to hype up guys that would get wrecked in the UFC or already have time in and time out.

    Sonnen has clearly taken his game to the next level by actually beating top guys in his last couple of fights and become an elite MW. He poses as big a challenge as anyone does to Anderson because of his style, he’s basically what Hendo should be if he didn’t obssess about KO guys with his right hand all the time. After last night’s performance to be in denial of where Sonnen ranks and who he’s beaten is like I said ealier insane.

  2. Alan Conceicao says:

    Really why? because Santiago beat up a couple of overated non UFC MW’s.

    Sonnen was ranked right with those overrated non-UFC MWs until he got a call to sign with the WEC. The difference is opportunity, not Sonnen’s unique talents. Do you really think that Jorge Santiago would have struggled with a drug addled Paulo Fihlo? How about with Yushin Okami, speaking of guys that were severely overrated.

    Sonnen has clearly taken his game to the next level by actually beating top guys in his last couple of fights and become an elite MW.

    Here’s the funny part; You’re reacting to criticism I wrote in advance of Sonnen winning, a result I expected and predicted. I feel perfectly justified in feeling that way given what happened. If you really think that Sonnen is a better version of Henderson, you’re glugging down that Kool-aid at an incredible rate.

  3. Grape Knee High says:

    Sonnen has a particular style that works extremely well against those predisposed to succumb to it: guys who can’t stop his takedowns and/or cannot submit him off their backs.

    I don’t think a handful of decent fights proves he’s a master gameplanner either; he’s not that far removed from employing the worst gameplan ever in his first fight with Fihlo, and arguably with Maia as well.

    One thing I don’t agree with is that the dropoff in talent we’re talking about from Silva isn’t just as severe in the other weight-classes, with an exception for 205. Assuming Lesnar comes back healthy, I see him dominating for a long, long time as much as that is the last thing I want to see. I think he would crush Fedor simply due to his size advantage, despite Fedor having more actual ability and skill. GSP and Penn look likely to dominate as well as long as they stay in their divisions.

  4. Grape Knee High says:

    a result I expected and predicted

    You’re not seriously bragging about your predictions that were mostly wrong, are you?

  5. Alan Conceicao says:

    Anyone who makes predictions gets some wrong. Does it change that I was dead on about the Sonnen fight?

  6. Grape Knee High says:

    I think most modest people would agree that it is wise to stay away from making boastful remarks about one’s predictions after the fact when most of them turned out to be shamefully wrong.

    Anyone who makes predictions also get some right.

  7. Zheroen says:

    “Anyone who makes predictions also get some right.”

    Look no further than 45’s prophet of wisdom and personal savior mmalogic for proof of this theory in action.

  8. Alan Conceicao says:

    I’m not even trying to be boastful of the prediction, LOL. If people want to get uppity because I said that in advance of what happened, so be it. Chael Sonnen is a good but not great fighter. I felt that beating Marqhardt wouldn’t change that, and I still feel that way.

    As for the lack of such delineations in talent elsewhere, heavyweight and lightweight are so messed up by interpromotional squabbling and Brock Lesnar’s inactivity that I have no idea what to make of either. Joe Stevenson on paper throttles most of the DREAM lightweights, but then we’re never going to find out for sure. And all it takes is one guy to top the charts and throw it all into chaos. 145 I think has a clear difference in talent. Faber, Brown, and Aldo are in a class of their own. Fernandes, Hioki, Sandro, and Gamburyan are all looking for an opportunity to crack the elite. Almost everyone else has been beaten by one of the elite fighters.

  9. Oh Yeah says:

    Come on now guys, give some credit for a correct call on a sizable underdog.

  10. EJ says:

    “Sonnen was ranked right with those overrated non-UFC MWs until he got a call to sign with the WEC. The difference is opportunity, not Sonnen’s unique talents. Do you really think that Jorge Santiago would have struggled with a drug addled Paulo Fihlo? How about with Yushin Okami, speaking of guys that were severely overrated.”

    Sonnen’s ranking before coming the the UFC was irrelevant, you seem to think that he was just called up to the WEC out of the blue and dind’t have a relationship with Zuffa already. People in the sport knew Sonnen and tought he would give Filho a good fight which he did. You can make all the excuses for him you want aswell but it doesn’t change facts either. And again you keep acting like Jorge Santiago is more than he is he would get wrecked in the cage again, Okami would rape him just like he would most MW’s outside the UFC.

    “Here’s the funny part; You’re reacting to criticism I wrote in advance of Sonnen winning, a result I expected and predicted. I feel perfectly justified in feeling that way given what happened. If you really think that Sonnen is a better version of Henderson, you’re glugging down that Kool-aid at an incredible rate.”

    Actually he’s about the same level of fighter, difference is that Sonnen actually took the challenge to face tough guys and didn’t duck his head and chase easier competition.

  11. Grape Knee High says:

    I’m not even trying to be boastful of the prediction, LOL.

    Fair enough.

    Joe Stevenson on paper throttles most of the DREAM lightweights, but then we’re never going to find out for sure.

    I agree, but much more emphatically believe it to be true. I think Gomi is one of the few LWs from Japan that stands a chance at even being remotely competitive in the US assuming he shows he has cardio — just because of his wrestling, KO power, and that he actually cuts a few pounds. I still see him losing to Florian, though, since even in his prime, Gomi never looked to be in fantastic shape.

    The rest, including Aoki, either are too one-dimensional or simply are too small for 155 by Western weight-cutting standards.

    Even so, I don’t even think anyone is remotely close to BJ Penn at this point, UFC or otherwise. The guy is in his own stratosphere skill-wise.

  12. JRN says:

    Kawajiri is said to be cutting quite a bit of weight these days.

  13. Alan Conceicao says:

    Sonnen’s ranking before coming the the UFC was irrelevant

    Which brings me back to my point that its opportunity, not elite skills. If nothing that happens outside the UFC matters, then should anyone even cover it? Sonnen was let go because he was pretty average as a fighter. When he returned, he was brought back BECAUSE he was average. He’s made good on lots of opportunities that were great for him – Same as Paul Daley, another run-of-the-mill level competitor who’s multitude of losses outside the UFC are now equally irrelevant for no explainable reason. What’s even funnier is now the losses to Maia and Fihlo are irrelevant. What really changed?

    And again you keep acting like Jorge Santiago is more than he is he would get wrecked in the cage again, Okami would rape him just like he would most MW’s outside the UFC.

    Oh, please. Okami can’t finish anyone who isn’t a raging alcoholic. Against a guy who’s gotten as big and muscular as Santiago, he will get ruined by strikes from the outside, a la Prangley.

    Actually he’s about the same level of fighter, difference is that Sonnen actually took the challenge to face tough guys and didn’t duck his head and chase easier competition.

    The challenge? LOLOL. Do you believe this? What, should Jorge Santiago drop what he’s making right now to take short money with the UFC against a top opponent? Sonnen took the WEC fight because it was the best option for him out there once the Bodog ATM stopped spitting out money, not because of some dream of taking on EJ’s top theorized challenges. He made the most of it though, and now he’s knocking on the door of a title fight. Hopefully he gets a real payday out of it.

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