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Ultimate Fighter Heavyweights finale (12/5 Las Vegas)
By Zach Arnold | December 2, 2009
Venue: The Pearl at the Palms
- Heavyweights (up to 265 pounds): Jon Madsen vs. Justin Wren
- Lightweights (155 pounds): Mark Bocek vs. Joe Brammer
- Welterweights (170 pounds): John Howard vs. Dennis Hallman
- Light Heavyweights (205 pounds): Brian Stann vs. Rodney Wallace
- Heavyweights (up to 265 pounds): Darrill Schoonover vs. James McSweeney
- Heavyweights (up to 265 pounds): Marcus Jones vs. Matt Mitrione
- Lightweights (155 pounds): Frankie Edgar vs. Matt Veach
- Catch weight (215 pounds): Kimbo Slice vs. Houston Alexander
- Light Heavyweights (205 pounds): Matt Hamill vs. Jon “Bones” Jones
- Ultimate Fighter Heavyweight finals: Roy Nelson vs. Brendan Schaub
Topics: Media, MMA, UFC, Zach Arnold | 133 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |
I\’m impressed by how the crucifix position has been used so effectively by Roy Nelson.
An interesting version of the position was also used by Davis in his semi-final win (with his leg over the opponent\’s head).
It\’s a pretty dominant position, possibly more dominant than full mount.
I\’ll never forget Matt Hughes using it to finish BJ Penn, who looked totally helpless, wincing as punches rained down on his exposed face.
Great. Marcus Jones had a psychotic breakdown and threatened to kill someone, and now we get to see him fight the guy that he threatened to kill! I can’t wait!
Also, I wonder whether Dennis Hallman will be fighting with or without the Lucha Libre mask from the TUF tryouts…
Brendan Schaub considers himself of a higher caliber than Arlovski or Monson:
“I think that’s my big advantage, Roy’s never fought a guy like me,” Schaub told MMAWeekly.com. “That’s a big thing to make cause he’s fought guys like (Andrei) Arlovski, (Jeff) Monson, and those other guys, but at the same time he’s never faced a guy of my caliber. If it goes to the ground, I’m fine down there; I can finish the fight down there. Obviously, I have a huge advantage if we keep it on the feet, so I just go in there and I react.”
I hope Roy whoops him.
Brendan Schaub blatantly grabbed the fence so many times in his quarterfinal fight (against Jon Madsen) that I couldn’t believe there were no point deductions by referee Josh Rosenthal.
What’s the point of having rules if you’re not going to enforce them when they’re blatantly broken right in front of your face?
The same Josh Rosenthal that watched an unconscious fighter take a half dozen or more blows to the head on this week’s episode?
Josh Rosenthal http://blogs.ajc.com/iceman-thrashers-blog/files/2009/02/blind-ref.jpg
But it was Spike’s idea and they didn’t officially give the green light for it, as they don’t control the advertising and would never condone such a thing….
Great. Marcus Jones had a psychotic breakdown and threatened to kill someone, and now we get to see him fight the guy that he threatened to kill! I can’t wait!
Its cage fighting, man. What do you want them to do? Go have tea together and discuss world politics before they slam shut the door?
Poor Marcus Jones. Can’t train chin…
“Great. Marcus Jones had a psychotic breakdown and threatened to kill someone, and now we get to see him fight the guy that he threatened to kill! I can’t wait!”
Oh please.
Pro fighters threaten to ‘kill’ their opponents all the time. Look no further than BJ Penn’s “to the death” line versus GSP.
Jones said some stupid shit in the heat of the moment and now realizes that he was acting like a moron. I seriously doubt he is going to literally try and kill Mitrione, just as I seriously doubted BJ was willing to fight ‘to the death’.
Great. Ken Shamrock had a psychotic breakdown and threatened to kill someone, and now we get to see him fight the guy that he threatened to kill! I can’t wait!
[/sarcasm]
Haven’t watched an episode in 2 seasons. Will tape the finale this weekend because I’m out of town. Looking more forward to the K1GP.
If two fighters hate each other, why not let them fight? Makes sense to me….
I watched the two episodes last night…. Yikes that was ugly….
I give Nelson the edge in the finale fight, but I think Schaub is going to have a better career. Nelson has peaked already, and he’s not nearly at the top, whereas the other guys on the show have raw talent and plenty of room to improve.
It’s parallel to the Hughes/Serra season, with Nelson as Mac Danzig, and guys like Schaub and Wren as Ben Saunders or George Sotiropoulos.
often (but not always) fights are a lot better when there is real heat between the two of them. I hope Marcus destroys Meathead.
“I give Nelson the edge in the finale fight, but I think Schaub is going to have a better career. Nelson has peaked already, and he’s not nearly at the top, whereas the other guys on the show have raw talent and plenty of room to improve.”
Excellent point on those two, but I can’t help but wonder the type of potential that Nelson could realize if he was training full time at a reputable camp like Jackson’s or ATT. Dude trains in his basement with his brother.
330K PPV buys for UFC 106?
http://mmapayout.com/2009/12/ufc-104-106-ppv-buyrate-updates/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Payout+%28Payout%29
On a note that’s related to my previous post, I asked NSAC head Keith Kizer if James McSweeney was fined for his hard shove of Matt Mitrione at the TUF weigh-in (which happened right in front of Kizer), and Kizer’s answer was, “No.”
When Bernard Hopkins shoved Winky Wright at their weigh-in a while back, Hopkins had to have an NSAC disciplinary meeting and quite a big production was made of it. I remember commissioner John Bailey asking Hopkins at the disciplinary hearing over and over again (paraphrasing), “Do you understand that it’s unacceptable behavior to do what you did?” I guess it’s not unacceptable anymore.
Im glad 106 flopped. I hope 108 and 109 flop too so Dana stops trying to make people pay 50 dollars to watch main events that should be on spike tv. Rashad vs Thiago Silva will draw 200k buys tops, and Coleman/Couture or Vitor/Marquardt (whichever is main event) will draw a similarly horrible buyrate. Couture isn’t a draw anymore because the appeal of him being old has worn off. Yeah, we get it, he is amazing for being 46 and still competing at a high level. The novelty is gone, and we are left with a guy whose entire strategy is just to vertically lay and pray.
In terms of the TUF show…. I think that people forget how some of the fighters looked even at the finale….
Forrest Griffin barely beat Stephan Bonnar. Kenny Florian was having a tough time with Alex Karalexis. Bonnar & Karalexis are basically the same fighter now, and Griffin and Florian are solid contenders. Some guys can just use that show and bring their fighting abilities up a few notches afterwards. Other cannot. Sometimes it is hard to tell who will be able to do that….
As for UFC 106….
I said anything under 300,000 was a total failure, and between 300,000 and 400,000 was a disappointment. That is still true. I don’t think it is a bad thing. This lesson needs to be taught to Zuffa.
The next lesson is to stop putting on 2 PPV’s a month when you don’t even have enough talent for one. The month of February basically has 2 PPV’s within 2 weeks of each other. There is absolutely no reason for that. One PPV a month maximum is enough. They are milking the fans and it could come back to haunt them in the long term. I still don’t believe having a lot of shows will hurt the UFC. Even a weekly show would be good. But having a lot of PAY shows absolutely would hurt the UFC in the long run.
And Couture/Coleman is a co-main event at best…. It has no business being a PPV headliner. February should have 2 UFC cards. One PPV and one fight night. They should look like this:
UFC 109 PPV
Antonio Nogueira vs. Cain Velasquez
Randy Couture vs. Mark Coleman
Michael Bisping vs. Wanderlei Silva
Nathan Marquardt vs. Chael Sonnen
Frank Trigg vs. Matt Serra
UFC Fight Night
Josh Koscheck vs. Paulo Thiago
Mirko Filipovic vs. Ben Rothwell
Ryan Bader vs. Keith Jardine
Damian Maia vs. Dan Miller
Junior Dos Santos vs. Gilbert Yvel at UFC 108. I don’t think Yvel should be sanctioned….
I got laughed at a while ago for bringing up how the Comcast/NBC deal could benefit the UFC/WEC. I was basically accused of just making crap up. I found this at BE, and it’s from the NYT’s…. Guess I was more right then people like to admit…
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2009/12/3/1184256/comcast-buys-nbc-mma-will-be
There is both good and bad to it, but I can help but think that Versus becoming bigger could help Zuffa in the long term….
“we are left with a guy whose entire strategy is just to vertically lay and pray.”
Wall & Stall baby!!
I doubt UFC learned their lesson off of this. They still made 6 million dollars from the PPV of which at least 3 was profit. They’ll have to lose money before they cut down on shows.
But it will absolutely come back to haunt them. Any hot trend that gets run into the ground (which is practically every hot trend) will eventually burn fans out. For example Twilight is huge right now, but if they announced they were putting out 3 movies a year instead of 1 eventually people would get sick of it. Now imagine 2 a month.
@45 – did you actually read the NYT article? NOTHING is even said about WEC or Zuffa for that matter…not one word. All of the brainstorming and extrapolation is done by Mike Chiapetta.
1. NBC probably won’t even get to lay hands on it until 12-24 months from now due to all of the regulatory approvals. So that’s two years of their new deal with Versus down the tubes on a nothing network.
2. The entire argument is predicated on the idea that NBC will use Versus (rebranded as NBC Sports) to go up against ESPN. That will take years and years of brand building and money to try to compete with a monolith like ESPN, if they even bother.
3. They would then have to actually be successful and would be bumping “marquee” programming like WEC and Bullriding way down the depth chart and out of prime spots for the new mainstream sports they would acquire.
45, that still proves absolutely nothing in showing you were correct that UFC on NBC is nearly a lock. (Really, using Kid Nate as proof? Couldn’t wait for an Onion column?)
1) The Obama Administration is going to fight this. A Democrat administration will not like the idea of Comcast possibly price-jacking top channels into exclusivity.
2) The NYTimes article says nothing about MMA, the MMA writer for AOL Fanhouse mentions that part. And he only speculates, including the speculation that on-the-record MMA-hater Dick Ebersol will never allow his Olympics carrying NBC Sports to be soiled with cagefighting.
3) Even with the foot in the door, will NBC offer a deal that lives up to Dana’s lofty expectations? If this happens I do think they’ll get on Univision which would be good for them, though.
That is definatelly a disapointing number for UFC 106 there is no doubt about that but UFC 104 headlined by 2 nondraws getting 500k on the other hand is great news.
It appears that the days of Tito being any sort of draw are dead don\’t be surprised to see him headline the next free UFC ppv on Spike. On the other hand the rematch between Shogun and Machida could be a huge ppv if built correctlly.
Thats the funny thing about the UFC when one door closes another seems to open up, but in the end they keep showing that the brand is the thing that sells in the end.
I can read perfectly fine and saw where the NYT’s was quoted and where Mike was quoted before I made my post… Here is my post from a while back…
“The big picture news story for MMA right now isn’t Lesnar. He is likely to get healthy and fight again. The big story is Concast trying to buy NBC Universal. Personally, I hope the deal gets blocked by the Feds, as it would drive up costs of television if the cable company owned such a major content provider.
But if this deal happens, it could easily change the dynamic of MMA on network TV. It will do so in two ways:
1) Zuffa already has a relationship with Versus who is owned by Comcast. Having that foot in the door already makes negotations easier. This was the case with EliteXC and Strikeforce going from Showtime to CBS.
2) I suspect that CBS won’t sign Strikeforce to a long term contract right now. If you sign them today, tomorrow the UFC reduces their requirements with another station and CBS is instantly the odd one out. The threat of the UFC potentially going on NBC will only strengthen that thought process and have a negative effect on Strikeforce. It is hard to build up when you are working on one went contracts and can’t plan ahead by signing ling term bigger named talent.
The other way this will effect everything is the distribution of digital media online. WEC on Versus could benefit from that.
Obviously there is some speculation in my post, but to me, this is an important long terms news story for MMA. It might never effect the sport at all, but it definitly could.”
Like I said in my post, this is a “long-term” news story to follow. No crap nothing happens overnight. And you will also notice I am not cheering for this deal as free services like Hulu would likely become pay sites. But i was ripped (like I am now) for making this prediction. The NYT’s saying that Versus could try and become a contender to ESPN would definitely help Zuffa’s position. Another large sports network would give more potential airtime to a company like Zuffa. That has long term effects on the sport of MMA….
Right now NBC doesn’t get involved in much sporting. World Series is on FOX. NBA Finals are on ABC. If Versus gets built up more, that will absolutely trickle into NBC, the same way ESPN has helped ABC with better sports programming.
Yvel vs J2S should be a lot of fun. Me thinks J2S will take him down and sub him. on the feet J2S has better hands but Yvel has great kicks and knees.
I like that fight a lot and it will be really entertaining, but it kind of seems like a step back for JDS who kinda seems like he’s on the title bubble.
Then why did you omit AOL Fanhouse being in fact the real source behind your claims? Nobody questioned you on Comcast and NBC looking for a merger with NBC Sports possibly getting control of Versus, which is all the NYT piece says.
Here you go with the constantly moving argument again. You went from arguing UFC will finally get on network television via NBC due to WEC on Versus to now Versus competing with ESPN by getting NBC backing like ESPN got ABC backing. Didn’t you read over the piece from yourself you just quoted? It only mentions network television.
“But i was ripped (like I am now) for making this prediction.”
LOL what a martyr!! I don’t even read 45s posts anymore since they are so long winded and incoherent.
Every fan of the fringe sports on Versus (MMA, IRL, NHL, Cycling) is under the belief that NBC is going to race in and put them all on primetime television. Reality isn’t wanted in this conversation, only pie-in-the-sky dreaming.
^ EXACTLY.
Guess what is going to happen to the fringe/niche sports if Versus becomes a competitor with ESPN?…
Hint: It’s not primetime deals or primo sports slots with heavy promotion.
To put what Gaijin says another way; Here’s two scenarios. See which you think makes more sense.
1) Comcast is buying NBC to guarantee itself a regular stream of programming for its cutting edge and heavily hyped upcoming internet/TV system that’s being rolled out 12/12/09 for creating a vast web of on-demand content that’s more staunch than Havoc TV 10 minute clip shows of dudes falling off skateboards to Agnostic Front songs. It may help force networks like Versus into better slots on people’s cable, though there’s not necessarily any guarantee of that given the success of Universal Sports.
2) Comcast is buying NBC in order to take the properties which it already owns and/or distributes and which have generally low ratings, and to force them onto the American public in an attempt to revolutionize TV programming through cutting edge shows and sports.
Because I really said the reasoning for the merger is the UFC…. Zuffa would be a benefactor as a result of the merger, but this merger has nothing to do with them.
Seems like the crazies have really taken over this blog. Zach Arnold does a fantastic job with his analysis, but sadly too much of the UFC hate has taken over. Every week a news story spells the end of the UFC in the mind of these posters. And anybody who dispells these opinions is bashed.
Either way, I won’t be returning to this website from now on as a result of it. Enjoy your hatefest….
Schaub sounds more like an IFL name. I don’t think he will stay long with the UFC.
Roy Nelson is ugly. Roy Nelson is boring. Roy Nelson is hated by all-you-can-eat buffet owners. But he is a good fighter. He should win this fight unless the referee dislikes Mario Sperry strategy and stand them up too soon.
I give huddle 5 days before he cracks and comes back
RIP 45 Dana.
He’ll come back, he just won’t post comments.
like the sad girlfriend that looks in the diner window at her ex and his new flame…..
I love the way the mind works – people dispelling a completely retarded fantasy world are “HATERS” who dare to be “UFC HATERS”. How DARE they point out the existence of REALITY and FACT.
Regarding my earlier comments about Marcus Jones and the responses to those comments— Ken Shamrock and Tito Ortiz had fake pull-aparts to sell an upcoming PPV fight. (Their “incidents” with each other were about as genuine as “The Quinton Jackson and Rashad Evans Improv Comedy Festival” on this season.)
BJ Penn used his oft-repeated “I’m willing to fight to the death” line to sell an upcoming PPV fight.
Marcus Jones seemed to actually go nuts on the episode that aired on Wednesday night, and the person that he threatened was not someone that he was scheduled to fight.
With all due respect, I have to wonder if there are lots of people who were looking forward to Matt Mitrione’s next fight after the two fights that he had on TUF. Marcus Jones actually showed a lot of potential in the cage, and I don’t think the same can be said for Mitrione.
Ivan I don’t think the Rampage-Rashad stuff was fake. Do you have any proof of this or is it just a guess? Regardless, why would the fact that one man wants to do physical harm to another dissuade the AC from letting them fight? Regardless if two people like each other or hate each other, they are going to fight and try to do serious damage to each other.
Can’t wait to see baldy crossing fingers and sweating like a piggy, hoping for Kimbo not embarrass himself too much… But no matter what, White will still call him “impressive” (and trash Nelson again).
David M— They were putting on a show for the cameras in order to sell their fight. Meltzer said as much in the Observer after the season was taped and before the season even aired, saying that Evans and Jackson knew what they were there to do (sell their fight) and they made it seem like they were going to come to blows numerous times without ever actually coming to blows.
Also, I wasn’t saying that the athletic commission should refuse to sanction Jones vs. Mitrione. I was saying that I’m not looking forward to it (ie, sarcastically saying, “I can’t wait!”). After Mitrione’s two fights on TUF, I had very little desire to see him fight again anytime soon, and the fact that Jones had a meltdown and threatened to kill him doesn’t make me want to see a fight that I otherwise didn’t want to see. If Jones goes for a takedown, he’ll get it, and then it’s likely going to be a one-sided fight in favor of Jones (not all that different from McSweeney vs. Mitrione). Anything could happen in MMA, but this is a glorified squash match.
Don’t worry, 45 will still debate us under his IceMuncher alter ego alter ego. Or if he uses a new name he’ll be easy to spot because his writing style is so distinct. Or just wait until he Freudian-typo’s “sodomy” again. Yes, people have taken personal shots against you (although you don’t help your case any by taking personal shots at people as much as anybody.) And yes people unrealistically believe UFC is worse off than they really are (although you believe every other MMA promotion and the entire boxing industry are worse off than they really are.) But in this case all that happened was you can’t decide what fantasy scenario argument you want to make and got called on it.
But if you want to go to a place with a bunch of likeminded posters talk about how awesome Dana is 24/7, there is always UFC.com.
Mark,
Or Bloody Elbow.
Still, it will be sad to see this site lose its Meletus. I’ve long enjoyed the intelligent rebuttals his comments have prompted.
Wow – take a couple of days off and the world falls apart! 45 has left the building! Too bad, I liked to read his posts. His political wrangling and demagogy were SO obvious. I also bet he can’t stay way and he’ll be back.
Ivan, I was thinking about what you said about it all being hype to sell a fight. I agree to an extent, because it is something the fighter knows he participates in and does it willingly, but the emotions that they portray are often real for them at some level, they’re just really going with it. To us, we see it as marketing, but to the guys doing it (and I have actually done this), it’s more real than you think, at least at the time. Then you go into the fight, leave it all on the mat, ring, cage, whatever, and it was all just hype to sell the fight. At least if they’re being honest. Even GSP tried it with Matt Hughes (unsuccessfully). I mean that guy doesn’t have a mean thing to say about anyone. And yet he utters “I am not impressed with you,” or words to that effect. And that whole “Matt’s a dick” thing by Matt Serra…all the same thing if I’m giving my opinion. Just saying.
Matt Hughes really is a dick so that was just telling the truth from Serra.
And GSP immediately apologized (like a minute after the PPV went off the air) for the “I’m not impressed by your performance” post-Penn/Hughes interview.
The whole thing is after some TUF contestants got in a fight (forget who offhand) and were announced to fight on the finale show, Dana said Spike advertised the fight without them actually booking it and said he’d never make a fight based off of legit heat (meaning guys pissed at each other over career-related issues was okay, but if the issue was out of the promotion like they got into a street fight or were trying to nail the same chick or something) he would feel it would put the sport in a bad light. So either they’re pretty much admitting most of the TUF-drama is a work or he’s hoping everybody was so wraped up in Kimbo they didn’t notice the death threat.
Yeah, it was Marcus and Mike over Scott Junk’s eye injury caused by an inadvertent poke by Mike Mitrione. Like I said, to an extent, I agree. But they work up their emotions so that it seems (at least somewhat) real. Either way, I will be watching the fight.
And yes, Matt Hughes really is a dick. But we knew that without Matt Serra pointing it out. 😉