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Strikeforce 11/7 Chicago (Fedor/Rogers)
By Zach Arnold | November 7, 2009
Venue: Sears Centre Arena (Hoffman Estates, Illinois)
TV: CBS
- Welterweights (170 pounds): Christian Uflacker vs. Jonatas Novaes
- Middleweights (185 pounds): Louis Taylor vs. Nate Moore
- Welterweights (185 pounds): Shamar Bailey vs. John Kolosci
- Lightweights (155 pounds): Mark Miller vs. Deray Davis
- Featherweights (145 pounds): Jeff Curran vs. Dustin Neace
- Women (145 pounds): Roxanne Modafferi vs. Marloes Coenen
- Heavyweights: Antonio Silva vs. Fabricio Werdum
- Light Heavyweights (205 pounds): Gegard Mousasi vs. Sokoudjou
- Middleweights (185 pounds): Jake Shields vs. Jason “Mayhem” Miller
- Heavyweights: Brett Rogers vs. Fedor Emelianenko
Event coverage: Heavy | MMA Torch | Sherdog | Fanhouse | USA Today | Bloody Elbow | MMA Frenzy | MMA Junkie
Strikeforce/Showtime public relations staff sent out this notice during the Chicago event:
CHICAGO (Nov. 7, 2009) — The stakes will be high when STRIKEFORCE closes out a spectacular 2009 with the return of one of the most prolific and exciting fighters in Mixed Martial Arts – unbeaten former STRIKEFORCE world middleweight champion Cung Le, who will headline a star-studded lineup at HP Pavilion in San Jose, Calif. on Saturday, Dec. 19, on SHOWTIME®.
Joining the legendary Le (6-0) will be five other outstanding and widely recognized 185-pound stalwarts, Scott “Hands Of Steel’’ Smith (16-6), “Ruthless” Robbie Lawler (16-5), Matt “The Law” Lindland (21-6) and highly regarded STRIKEFORCE newcomers Ronaldo “Jacare” Souza (10-2) and Muhammed “King Mo” Lawal (5-0), who will be making their respective highly anticipated debuts for the organization. Souza will face Lindland. Opponents for Lawler and “King Mo’’ will be announced soon.
A special pre-sale ticket purchase opportunity will take place for “STRIKEFORCE Insider” e-newsletter subscribers (www.strikeforce.com) beginning at 10:00 AM, PT Tuesday, Nov. 10, and ending at 10 PM, PT on Thursday, Nov. 12. ”STRIKEFORCE Insiders” will receive a special e-newsletter today with the pre-sale code.
Tickets, priced from $30, go on sale to the general public at 10:00 AM, PT on Friday, Nov. 13 at the HP Pavilion ticket office as well as at all Ticketmaster locations (800-745-3000), Ticketmaster online (www.ticketmaster.com) and STRIKEFORCE’S official website (www.strikeforce.com).
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TV ratings news for the event.
Topics: Media, MMA, StrikeForce, Zach Arnold | 197 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |
Jeremy, whichever Jeremy you are, Lesnar was better than Rogers on the ground the very first day he started training. The rest of yout post sounds reasonable to me, but really, Brett is not all that skilled.
45,
Re: your question if Fedor would beat Cain, Lesnar, and Carwin, my answer is definitely yes! You think Carwin would beat Fedor why? Because he is teh big and beat Gonzaga? Seriously is that all it takes? Fedor beat the best hws in the world in their primes, and you are now saying someone whose most impressive win is against a guy who has been TKO’d in more than a quarter of his fights makes him better than the GOAT. It’s like reality is useless when talking to you.
Yeah, Carwin and Brock are teh big, but both as slow as fucking molasses on the feet compared to Fedor. Fedor is going to be moving in and out and unleashing bombs that guys who are basically wrestlers with no standup aren’t going to be able to avoid. I don’t think Shane Carwin has ever moved his head in a fight. He is going to be a sitting fucking duck. Cain doesn’t hit hard and has shown a propensity for getting hit, which is not a good combination against Fedor. Brock also has a worse career record against Frank Mir than Ian Freeman. Fedor will either sub him or KO him. Frankly I thought Mir was gonna KO him after he landed that knee on Brock.
Anyone who fights in the UFC is like a cartoon hero to you; if Roy Nelson wins a few fights in the UFC you are going to proclaim that he is a bad matchup for Fedor. Get over it, Fedor is a bad matchup for everyone.
Really good program IMO.
Soko and Fed fights were easy predictions, but its still a thrill to watch Gegard and Fedor preform their skill even if its just a display.
The Sheilds/Mayhem and Werdum/Bigfoot fights scratched the legit competition itch. Although now I’m convinced that Werdum has even less of a chance against Fed than I gave him before last night after watching him eat so many punches to the face.
If, I mean WHEN fed sticks one of those hot Fedor expresses on his jaw there wont be any scrambling to grab a leg and clear his head afterwards, it’ll just be over.
I think before the “Brock > Fedor” opinion becomes gospel he should at least have to beat Shane Carwin first. He’s never had to worry about getting knocked out beside a horribly past his prime Herring. So if he can’t take a punch from Carwin, he definitely wouldn’t be able to withstand the bomb Fedor tossed last night. Fedor is one of those fighters who instantly sees a mistake and capitalizes on it. If you leave an arm out, live your chin exposed, allow him to take your back the fight is over. So there’s never a sure thing with someone like him.
Guys, why do you let people like 45 and Icemuncher bother you? Anyone who has any respect in MMA recognizes and acknowledges Fedor’s talent and ability. No fighter is more respected by his peers than Fedor is. Asinine comments by random blog message board contributors mean nothing.
On another note, the atmosphere in the Sears Centre was electric. There were maybe like 8 people who weren’t there to see Fedor. People knew thy were watching something special from the moment he started walking down the ramp. Seeing an athlete of his calibre perform live is something you don’t forget. Best $52 I’ve spent in a long time.
When did I say I didn’t respect what Fedor has done? I completely acknowledge he is the #1 ranking Heavyweight in the world.
But people put their blinders on when it comes to him. The matchmaking for him over the last 4 years has been nothing short of marvelous in that you fans completely eat it up, despite real evidence that there are holes in his game compared to the competition that is out there.
“Anyone who fights in the UFC is like a cartoon hero to you; if Roy Nelson wins a few fights in the UFC you are going to proclaim that he is a bad matchup for Fedor. Get over it, Fedor is a bad matchup for everyone.”
This is where you are wrong. Nelson will never be a threat. Nogueira is washed up. So is Couture. Do you want me to continue?
There is a different level of athlete in the UFC’s Heavyweight Division. A type of athlete Fedor will not see outside of that division. Watching him fight slow fighters like Rogers has no appeal….
And for the people who want to see him fight Overeem…. That guy is so pumped up on roids and has exhibited a poor chin in MMA over the years. Once again, Fedor has the speed advantage.
It would be nice to see him fight a few fighters in a row where that doesn’t come into play….
“Sounds like Iole was being positive in that particular blurb. Saying Fedor will get at least the same ratings as Kimbo is pretty damn optimistic.”
That’s the point. Nobody is expecting last night’s event to do “Kimbo numbers,” and Iole may be a lot of things, but he’s certainly no dummy. Saying that last night’s event will draw just as well or better than Kimbo’s CBS fights is just a set-up so that he can later say, “The event was expected to draw X number, but it only drew Y number.” Keep in mind, this kind of thing is what Iole does for a living.
If on a scale of 1 to 10 of being a UFC Schill, Iole is an 8…. Then Gross is a 9 on the anti-UFC bandwagon…
I quote: “For Emelianenko, anything less than a peak rating of 5.5 million will be considered a major disappointment.”
And now today via is twitter:
“Triple digit increases men 18-34 & 18-49 over typical Saturday night, which is exactly what CBS was looking for.”
Keep in mind, this is the same guy that is now blaming the UFC for Fedor not fighting in their organization.
Both guys are useless MMA “journalists” if you ask me….
And let’s really look at the ratings here…. I know some of it is not included, but it is only about 15 minutes worthy and isn’t likely to make a huge change.
THE GOOD
1) The Demographics. The show did well in the 18-49 range both overall and for males. This is a positive sign for advertising.
2) The Fighting. I know my complaint was with all the fighters gassing, but that isn’t something that most casual fans will care about. Overall, they presented it more as an MMA card then a freakshow (like EliteXC).
THE BAD
1) CBS was in last place in the ratings during that time slot and lost out to basically repeats and COPS/America’s Most Wanted.
2) The show did worse then all the Kimbo stuff, including his CBS and TUF Freakshows.
OVERALL – I wouldn’t call it a success or a failure. It is kind of in that in-between zone in terms of where the ratings fell. The biggest problem is that it won’t guarantee Strikeforce a bigger contract with the network, which is exactly what they need ($$$$).
I also don’t see what is next for Strikeforce on CBS. Nobody cares about Fedor/Werdum. And Overeem & Carano will not be ready until April at the latest. I doubt we see another show on CBS for at least 6 months. CBS learned their lesson with Lawler/Smith. They are more likely to wait it out then to just try and get another show on every 3 months.
Funny, I have Fedor ranked as the #1 HW. By saying that I want to watch him fight the best I’m now a hater?
IceMuncher…. You have to realize… Fedor is going to be fighting another fringe Top 10 guy…. That is good enough!!
Fedor fighting Werdum is the same as GSP fighting Swick. Both guys are borderline Top 10… So by a rankings perspective it is valid. From a “use your brain” aspect, they are pointless fights. The only difference is that GSP already cleared out his division, something Fedor has not remotely done right now….
I wonder what the ratings would have been if the West Coast was able to get the show live. I ended up watching in on the Slingbox I have hooked up at my parent’s house in Michigan. I am sure a lot of West Coasters watched the show live on sites like justin.tv instead of waiting for the tape delayed version.
I didn’t live out here when EliteXC was on CBS, but were those tape delayed too? I cancelled my Showtime here too because I don’t get Showtime East on Comcast and I didn’t want to watch tape delayed shows.
Fedor vs Werdum is worse than GSP vs Swick, due to Werdum’s recent loss to JDS. I think a better analogy would be GSP vs Hazelett.
I meant in terms of each challenger having a chance of beating the champion. Both basically have no chance. But you are right, Swick is more deserving of a title shot, he has a 9-1 UFC record (padded, but still impressive), and if he wins his next fight will be 10-1. Except for being overpower by Okami, he has won most of his fights pretty convincingly. Werdum on the other hand has already lost to Nogueira, Arlovski, & Dos Santos. We all know his limitations. He is a gatekeeper of sorts.
A big number I see floating around the message boards is that CBS lost around 40% of their typical viewership for that same time slot. Basically, them putting in repeats gets them much higher ratings on Saturday nights.
One could justify this with the younger demographic that Strikeforce brings in… but is it really worthy it? the commercials were the same advertisers over and over again, which typically means the commercial time was given away for a relatively cheap price. Plus, there is a lot more work that has to go into a show like this for CBS. Does the extra time/cost really benefit the decrease in ratings.
Either way, that all points to this event not being a huge success…. Which is what we all expected of Fedor.
45 Huddle,
Your knowledge of the inner workings of the television industry and advertising astound me. Is there any subject that you are not an expert on?
And expect to fail? I did not expect this event to fail and it did not. You just HOPED that anything NOT the UFC fails.
You are a piece of **** UFC nuthugger and it is so obvious. That must drive be your drive in life….for everything but the UFC to fail.
Hey, I don’t call you names. I expect the same treatment in return. If you feel the need to do that, then just don’t comment at all. Typically the person who resorts to name calling is the one who isn’t educated enough to have a proper discussion about the topic at hand.
As for my tv knowledge…. I am no expert. Never claimed to be. But when numbers are down, I don’t see how that is a good thing. When my favorite shows go down in the ratings, they typically get cancelled. By multiple benchmarks, the show didn’t do well. It did worse then what CBS typically has in that time slot. It did worse then what Kimbo did on CBS. It did worse then what a few UFC shows on SpikeTV have done. Why do I need expert knowledge to point those things out?
The cut off point of the overnights was 11pm. Fedor-Rogers fight didn’t start until after 11 and is not counted. Therefore you’re discounting the bounce the main event that lots of people only tune in for (and granted lots tuned in thinking they were going to be seeing the 11pm newscast) so that is quite a difference that could push it to equaling Kimbo’s fight with Thompson.
Plus, since Dana White ONLY cited the main event numbers to mislead the press into thinking that was the final number (the “10 million people watched Bonnar-Griffin” and “Shamrock-Ortiz beat the World Series”), why can’t Strikeforce at least get credited for their rating from 11:00-11:25 pm?
Mark,
Welcome to Mathematics….
The show averaged 3.79 Million viewers. The last half hour did 4.01 Million viewers. Let’s say it increased by 25% for that last 15 minutes for Fedor vs. Rogers. That is a generous assumption. I’ll round it off and say it got an even 5 Million viewers.
That would mean the entire show averaged 3.92 Million viewers. That is an increase of less then 4% to the overall rating.
Mathematically speaking, for every 1% increase in viewership for that 15 minutes, it will only increase the overall rating by .011%. Simply put, it would take an off the charts increase to really make a major impact on the overall rating.
I said “could” not “would”. Even UFC’s main events (ie Dana White’s misleading statement that Shamrock-Ortiz beat the World Series when really only part of the main event did) get jumps in numbers. And coming from the last match being a wrestling clinic that wasn’t of any interest to the casuals, it’s entirely possible people flipped around until Fedor. Probably not enough but maybe enough to make it closer.
I really enjoyed that event, despite Shield doing his best early-career Lindland impersonation for a couple of rounds. Hopefully the WEC & UFC’s later this month continue bringing us good shows like Strikeforce and Sengoku did. I have faith in WEC(they seem to never miss) and UFC 106, but 105 is quite shaky, IMO.
Bummed to see the ratings. That is definitely not a success.
Gee, thanks for the math lessons 45.
“If on a scale of 1 to 10 of being a UFC Schill, Iole is an 8…. Then Gross is a 9 on the anti-UFC bandwagon…
I quote: “For Emelianenko, anything less than a peak rating of 5.5 million will be considered a major disappointment.”
And now today via is twitter:
“Triple digit increases men 18-34 & 18-49 over typical Saturday night, which is exactly what CBS was looking for.””
Apples and oranges.
You do realize that the peak rating hasn’t been released yet, and could very well reach his projections? The entire broadcast was built around Fedor’s fight; expect the ratings, particularly the demos, to soar in those final 20 minutes. A peak of at least 5 million seems assured at this point.
You probably should have slowed your shill roll there. You’re going to end up with Josh Gross’ foot in your mouth.
3.79 million is a horrendous rating.
To the point of how was it affected by not being live on the West Coast, I don’t think that had any impact. All previous CBS shows were tape delayed out here and this rating is lower than the previous shows.
I don’t think UFC will ever be on broadcast TV and don’t think MMA period is long for broadcast TV. At least not in primetime. Did you see the ads being run last night? That’s how CBS decides what goes on air, by the money spent on ads.
I think if MMA stays on broadcast TV it will move to Saturday afternoons. Which would actually be really cool in my opinion.
Smoogy, I just read your post again.
The whole broadcast was not built around Fedor’s fight. The whole broadcast was built to sell ads for 2 hours on TV. That is how TV works. What is actually on screen is an after thought. If 10 million people would tune in to see pigs in birthday hats eating apples for an hour, then pigs in birthday hats eating apples would be on every network.
UFC doesn’t care if it puts on one good fight and people by a PPV because UFC already got its money from each PPV buyer. When a fight is on TV the network needs the whole night to be a success so it can sell ads. If MMA proves to be something where fans only watch the last 20 minutes of a 2.5 hour broadcast it won’t last.
P.S. Is Gross talking the quarter hour peak, or the overall peak? Maybe I’m the one putting my foot in my mouth. TV ratings are confusing.
Anyway, expect a pretty big bump for that final quarter hour, if the EXC: Heat results are anything to go by.
Mr. Roadblock, what I mean was that the show was marketed in a way that put all the focus on Fedor. I’m not advocating for MMA cards built around just one fight, but Strikeforce was in a position where they are starting over on another platform… in this particular instance, it made sense to sell one big fight, and let other top fighters in the organization do their talking with their performances on the undercard. It worked for Mousasi… Shields, not so much.
I agree that for Strikeforce to have ongoing success on CBS, they need to have mid-card attractions that can retain and increase viewership before the main event. The “Kimbo-Gina” model, so to speak.
The telecast was set for 9 to 11, anyone tuning in just to catch the Fedor fight probably started watching at 10:30. How would they know to start watching the show at 11?
Breaching a new topic, has anyone heard about the Davis vs Miller situation? SF canceled an undercard fight because it was running late, and only compensated the fighters with the already guaranteed show money. That is completely unprofessional.
I will side with 45 Huddle on one thing and say that Strikeforce needs to emulate EXACTLY what the UFC did and pay both Davis and Miller their show AND win money since it is the production/management’s fault that the fight did not happen.
“The telecast was set for 9 to 11, anyone tuning in just to catch the Fedor fight probably started watching at 10:30. How would they know to start watching the show at 11?
Breaching a new topic, has anyone heard about the Davis vs Miller situation? SF canceled an undercard fight because it was running late, and only compensated the fighters with the already guaranteed show money. That is completely unprofessional.”
Actually it was delayed in the Mountain Time and West Coast time by at least 1 hour. By the time people in Central and East Coast got to see Fedor vs Rogers fight, the show out west was either at Mayhem/Shields fight or just starting in the Pacific.
This wasnt a very good decision by CBS to delay feed.
And it did affect west coast and mountain time. Alot of people I know who wanted to watch it was pissed and decided to go out to the clubs.
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How did they know to tune into Shamrock vs. Ortiz and skip the Matt Hamill and Kendal Grove fights? (show got a 3.1 rating overall and a 5.7 rating for the Ortiz-Shamrock segment) How did they know to tune in for Kimbo vs. James Thompson? (show overall got a 4.85, the main event got a 6.51) And how are they only going to know to watch Couture-Vera and not the other 2 hours of fights? Because people flip around channels and most people who are casual fans are not interested in the undercard and only care about the main event.
I could be wrong, but I remember those shows increasing in viewers through the main event. The show on Saturday saw a drop during the last 30 minutes. Shields killed that telecast.
Shields is now a Showtime only fighter.
Sheilds is not to blame for the the flow of that match:
That honor goes to Miller.
He himself said that Sheilds did not have endurance like himself and would wait for him to wear out.
Miller sat on his butt with his back to the cage not even trying any offensive manuvers. Miller was obviously the sphysically stonger of the two, but for some reason didn’t seem to think he had the ability to defeat a fresh Jake Shields.
For those who enjoy the grappling aspect of the sport, like myself, it would normally quite enjoyable, but Miller obviouly didn’t apply himslef in that match like he could have. So, for even a grappling fan myself, with only on fighter really trying, I found it a bit lacking in the action department.
Later in the fight, when he was loosing by rounds (all of them), Miller finally decided to try something, but Shields had found his rythem, and it was too late for Miller to be effective.
But you’re right, Shields, will be relegated to Showtime because he will take the brunt of the blame for a boring fight (even if he wasn’t the primary reason).
Great show, especially for fans of grappling. I liked Werdum and Silva, and Moussasi vs. Sokoudjo as well. Shields v. Miller should have been a 3 round fight, but still an impressive display of ground game despite the repetitive final rounds. The main event delivered as well as far as I’m concerned.
Sorry to hear the ratings may not be what the network wants. I agree with the comment that non-marquee name MMA should try out Saturday afternoons. It takes star fighters to get people to give up a night out, but to guys like me who aren’t too into team sports or golf Saturday afternoon is a wasteland. This particular Saturday I was lucky to have the Valuev vs Haye boxing card from Germany, but it has become all too rare to get Saturday afternoon fights.
The last half hour of the original broadcast 10:30-11 is what Fedor brought in. Same with Kimbo. The big jump at 11 is people tuning in to watch the news. People that only want to see the main event tune in for the last half hour. Not at 11pm when the show is supposed to be over.
This is why MMA will probably never have a network home. In a football game fanstune in to see the cowboys and eagles play for 3 hours. At the end one team won the game. In MMA you have anywhere from 4-8 separate fights. Lots of times fans only care about one or two fights.
Is Cung Le ducking Jake Shields? He vacates the belt…. Comes back to fight a month later and does not want a title shot. Are you kidding me? And Coker will gladly go along with it. If this was Dana White, he would already announced Shields vs. Le, and then let public opinion get to Le until he signs on.
It is obvious that Coker has no intentions of putting all of his best fighters against each other. He just wants to preserve his main event fighters. Can you say boxing?
Not only can you say boxing, but a number of posters on this board are all for it. They think guys ducking each other is good for the sport and emblematic of “sticking it to the man”. When really it is sticking it to the fan and to the sport.
Cung Le was asked to vacate the title. They didn’t know, and he didn’t know, that he would have a spot open up on his schedule to fight.
It’s not likely it could have been Shields anyway. Nov 7-Dec 19 is not much time to heal up and train again.
Details here:
http://www.heavy.com/post/heavycom-talks-to-cung-le-1440
and here:
http://www.heavy.com/post/10-questions-for-strikeforce-president-scott-coker-1444
I’m not sure Coker can force Le vs. Shields any more than White can force Fedor to come on board. And unlike White, Coker doesn’t have the leverage of a bigger wallet and a bigger stage. Dana can say ‘fight X or get out of town’ and teams must take him seriously, but at Strikeforce fighters and their teams really can elect to walk away and find similar paydays elsewhere. So Coker has no choice but to be accommodating to his few stars. If he tells Le he must fight Shields or not fight at all for Strikeforce, or even worse if he tries to extort him via the press/public, it is quite conceivable that Le takes his talents elsewhere (Hollywood, Bellator, Japan, etc.).
BTW in the last few years the best are facing off in boxing fairly regularly. FMW is the exception, but he is his own story, and even then his last fight can be defended as he did fight a top ranked opponent.
Are you joking Jonathan? What fighter in his right mind wouldn’t want to get the title back ASAP? The guy is fighting to collect a paycheck, and Coker is allowing it to happen. When Cung Le decided to fight again, he knew their would already be a champion in the division before his return.
And it’s not like he is taking on a really tough challenger either. This isn’t Souza or Lindland. He got to handpick the easiest named fighter possible.
Trying to justify this in any way is laughable….
Not only can you say boxing, but a number of posters on this board are all for it. They think guys ducking each other is good for the sport and emblematic of “sticking it to the man”. When really it is sticking it to the fan and to the sport.
The only problem is that the current system doesn’t do any better a job of guaranteeing top guys fighting each other. It actually does a better job guaranteeing that they won’t.
Then I guess those people tuned out because they didn’t like Fedor’s new dye job and were shell shocked that Brett Rogers is getting his skin bleached with Sammy Sosa at the Michael Jackson Memorial Clinic.
Mark, are you out of your mind? The number jump that happens/happened from 10:30 to 11 is what Fedor brought Saturday and what Kimbo brought in his two fights.
At 11pm people tune in to see their local news on CBS. You’re aware that there is a show called simply “the news” and it runs every night at 11pm, right? Maybe in the little snarky cave you live in people don’t watch the news.
What fight fan exactly do you think tunes it at 10:30, sees that Fedor isn’t on then flips back over at 11pm? That just shows you don’t understand the fight business.
Incidentally this is why so many people watched Gina’s fight in May of ’08. It was on right before Kimbo, but was on at the time when Kimbo’s fight would have gone on if the broadcast were on schedule.
“5.46 Million Viewers for Fedor/Rogers Main Event”
Fedor vs. Rogers is the 9th most watched MMA fight in the history of the U.S.! A lot of “experts” in this comment page look mighty stupid now.
5.46 ~= 5.5 mil
Either everyone’s an idiot, or Iole is a genius now.
Probably neither.
Are you out of your mind
OMG I HAD NO IDEA! A television program that discusses events that happened in the last 24 hours? That’s an amazing idea, Roadblock! Man, if this program you speak of that I was fooled into thinking was an MMA program was really “the news” broadcasts awesome fights nightly I need to start watching! Currently I rely on The Onion for my news info.
There’s a device called a remote control most homes have been equipped with since the early-80s. When something you don’t want to watch you push this button that changes the channel. And get this: you can push this other button that goes back to the channels you passed. So if you didn’t give a crap about the other 3 fights, as most people didn’t by all that was written about it, you can still see the program you want to see when you want to see it.
No. But it’s why you don’t understand the remote control business.
Yeah it wouldn’t have had anything to do with being titillated a hot chick was fighting or anything. Guys would never want to watch that.
For all the geniuses claiming, “it’s granny and gramps watching the news dumbasses!!! FEDOR SUXX!!”
The 5.46 million and it’s accompanying rating is the AVERAGE of viewers over the time period…so the idea that it was made up of a completely false measurement of grey-haired newsies is laughably incorrect.
Yes 45, even if mmalogic told you so.