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Forrest Griffin vs. Tito Ortiz on 11/21 in Las Vegas
By Zach Arnold | October 8, 2009
It’s a good fight for both men to take, as Ortiz will have an built-in excuse of ring rust if he loses.
The big loser? Rashad Evans, who does seem hellbent on fighting Thiago Silva in a match not many casual fans care about.
Griffin/Ortiz seems almost imperative to book, especially if they need to rebound from bad business at the Staples Center show for the 10/24 PPV with Machida vs. Shogun.
Topics: Media, MMA, UFC, Zach Arnold | 56 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |
This is a huge step in opponent ranking for Tito Ortiz. Tito just went from fighting the #15 LHW to the #4 (by my ranking). A win for Griffin gives Ortiz far more credibility than one over Coleman. It instantly puts him in the Top 5 and only one more win (against another Top 5er) away from a title shot.
If Ortiz beats Griffin I’d match him against the winner of Evans vs T.Silva. The winner of that fight gets a title shot against the winner of Machida vs Rua.
Meantime I’d give Jones the winner of Cane vs Nogueira, and match Franklin against Jardine, in a contest for a spot in the Top 10. Assume Nogueira takes out Cane and Jones. Next I’d give him the winner of Franklin vs Jardine. The winner of that fight could have the next shot at the LHW title.
All this assumes that A.Silva, W.Silva and Henderson remain at MW, and Rampage and Liddell remain “retired”.
Griffin might be #4 in the world, but he is probably the most beatable Top 5 fighter in the world in any weight class. He has flaws. Still a tougher fight then Coleman, but the UFC had little choice. Coleman was the perfect opponent for Ortiz as he was a name fighter who couldn’t beat him. Nobody else fits in that category.
This is nearly perfect matchmaking for a replacement fight. And it actually makes UFC 106 an even bigger event. The main card is now:
UFC Heavyweight Title: Brock Lesnar vs. Shane Carwin
Tito Ortiz vs. Forrest Griffin 2
Antonio Rogerio Nogueira vs. Luiz Cane
Jon Fitch vs. Ricardo Almeida
Karo Parisyan vs. Dustin Hazelett
Is there anyway this event doesn’t do 1 Million buys now?
Great last minute replacement and perfect semi main for selling tickets. They could use this fight on the Staples card more though, where Meltzer said they’ve only sold 7k tix so far. I was there for Royce/Hughes and there were tons of empty seats and supposedly they papered a 1/3 of it. Doesn’t sound like this will be much better.
Wow, Ortiz vs. Griffin is a much better match-up than Ortiz vs. Coleman. This is a rare case of the replacement fight being far better than the original fight. I’m looking forward to this one.
Also, if Rashad Evans would prefer to fight the best possible fighter that he can fight at any given time, more power to him.
Is it me, or is the LA market just not very good for MMA? Kind of surprising really, but it is never a good sell. It would probably be too late to reap the rewards of putting Ortiz/Griffin on the Machida/Rua undercard. Mine as well just get out of that event what they can, and they bank on UFC 106 being a huge blockbuster. 3 Weekends in a row of solid fights.
Nov 7: Strikeforce with Fedor/Rogers, Werdum/Silva, & Shields/Miller.
Nov 14: Pacquiao/Cotto and UFC 105 with Couture/Vera
Nov 18: WEC with Brown/Aldo
Nov 21: UFC 106 with Lesnar/Carwin and Ortiz/Griffin
There is also a Sengoku & Strikeforce Challenger event in that time frame too. A packed November after a pretty slow October.
Evans should let Keith get revenge for himself. I wonder how Tito’s reflexes will be with the long layoff and him being 35 in jan.
Ortiz, Griffin, Lesnar. Three of the top five or ten draws this organization has ever had…I’d be shocked if it only drew a million. The only way this card could draw bigger would be if it was on November 28th.
Forrest got robbed of a victory in the last fight, he’s definitely winning this one since he’s a better fighter than he was in 2005 and Tito has aged badly since then. Tito has no power in his hands so it’s the perfect return fight for Forrest. As long as he can stuff the takedowns (and since Tito is so rusty he probably will) he’ll win this UD 30-27.
Well, okay. I was expecting another tomato can with a name and instead we get a legit fighter with a great story coming into this fight. My interest in UFC 106 has piqued.
Oh, well, I’d have considered buying UFC 106, but I’ll be in Paris. Their super sweet TV deal in France is apparently only to show 1 hour of dubbed UFC Unleashed on Saturday night. Wah wah wahhhhhhh.
How bad is the business for 24/10?
I’m not doubting at all, I’m just interested and hadn’t heard anything.
Ortiz v Griffin will answer a LOT of questions about Griffin’s mental state after a devastating loss, Otriz’s ability to compete in UFC’s stacked 205 division, etc.
Coleman v. Ortiz would have only answered one: will Coleman have a heart attack in the Octagon?
I don’t know if I’d be 100% sure about Coleman getting blown away by Tito. Coleman is a better wrestler, stronger and bigger. We’re talking about a top NCAA wrestler who defeated Kurt Angle in his healthy prime versus a community college wrestler. Coleman’s cardio is questionable so IMO that’s all Tito had going for him in that fight (BIG BEAR HIGH ALTITUDE blah blah blah.) He’d outlast him more than likely but it would be an ugly decision. At least if he loses to Forrest that’s respectable.
Strikeforce main card has been set:
1. Fedor Emelianenko vs. Brett Rogers
2. Gegard Mousasi vs. Sokodjou
3. MW Title: Jake Shields vs. Jason Miller
4. Fabricio Werdum vs. Antonio Silva
Sold card for TV. But why is the Mousasi fight not for the title? Soko is his best potential opponent outside of the UFC. It should be for the belt. My guess is that SF doesn’t have him signed and he is on loan from DREAM. That is an awful way to do business and is unfairto the challenger. Very boxing-esque.
And the big question is…. Despite this being a solid card for us devoted fans…. Where is the draw? Who is going to bring in the casual fans? Nobody on there can do that.
If Tito wins, Griffin will be in need of a sabbatical.
Strikeforce has done a number of nontitle fights with champions before. I’m not shocked. Wouldn’t even be surprised that the reason is a fear it could go long.
I don’t really care about “the casual fans”. Fedor is fighting on free TV in HD against a competent opponent. Better than Kimbo, for sure.
I cannot see that happening. Tito was protected for so long and the 3 times he got real competition he got knocked out (Liddell), barely won the draw (Evans) and looked old and outclassed (Machida.) Forrest on the other hand has been fighting the top competition his division has to offer outside of ducking Machida. MMA has passed Tito Ortiz by and that’s all there is to it.
1. Fedor Emelianenko vs. Brett Rogers
2. Gegard Mousasi vs. Sokodjou
3. MW Title: Jake Shields vs. Jason Miller
4. Fabricio Werdum vs. Antonio Silva
Not a bad fight card for my first ever live event.
Based on the MTV exposure from Bully Beatdown, Jason Miller’s probably as much of a draw to the casuals as anyone.
What is a measurable, significant draw in American MMA:
1. The UFC name
2. Brock Lesnar
3. Georges St. Pierre
4. Randy Couture
5. Kimbo Slice
Probably in that order.
StrikeForce does not have any of these things going for them right now, so they’re SOL.
This is basically Affliction’s marketing strategy: hope the hardcore fans will tune in (they will), and praying the mainstream media will care (they won’t).
The media are as UFC-obsessed as a 13-year-old Sherdog forum member, and no media outlet gives a flying crap about any non-Zuffa promoted event.
Having said that it’s a damn solid looking card.
The problem with MTV is that they have a more young female demographic. Not exactly a true cross over to live events. Once in a while MTV while try a show to get more boys to watch like Bully Beatdown or Wrestling Society X.
And I do think it is important to talk about how this card might get viewers. One bad rating could spell disaster, especially with CBS paying some of Fedor’s salary.
Carano, Le, or Shamrock needed to be on this card. Like I said, it is a solid card…. But there needs to be some looking forward right now.
I do think Fedor should beat Rogers, but this is ripe for an upset. The marriage jinx can hurt a fighter….
I think the Strikeforce show will do better than many people think. It’s a really nice card with meaningful fights.
Is there a WEC show tomorrow night?
“The problem with MTV is that they have a more young female demographic. Not exactly a true cross over to live events. Once in a while MTV while try a show to get more boys to watch like Bully Beatdown or Wrestling Society X.”
Well this just is not very accurate. Bully Beatdown is currently sandwiched between Fantasy Factory and Nitro Circus and that is followed by Pranked. All of the shows in the block on Thursday night are marketed towards the male demographic.
@ 45 Huddle
“Sold card for TV. But why is the Mousasi fight not for the title? Soko is his best potential opponent outside of the UFC. It should be for the belt. My guess is that SF doesn’t have him signed and he is on loan from DREAM. That is an awful way to do business and is unfairto the challenger. Very boxing-esque. ”
Which one are you talking about being on Loan, because RTS may be on loan as well, I mean the guy just finished participating in the stage of DREAM. Super Hulk tourney. Along with that still has to fight during New Years. Probably non title due to RTS not fighting in Strikeforce recently. Coupled with a 7-4 record, does he really deserve to have a title shot?
“The problem with MTV is that they have a more young female demographic. Not exactly a true cross over to live events. Once in a while MTV while try a show to get more boys to watch like Bully Beatdown or Wrestling Society X”
The only networks geared towards males or females are those who use it as a marketing gimmick like Spike for men or Lifetime for women. Every other station has PROGRAMS that are geared towards men or women, not the whole network. Their highest rated shows like The Hills or whatever are more popular with women but that doesn’t mean men say “Eww, MTV is girl stuff!” or wouldn’t watch a show that appeals to them.
But yeah, it’s gimmick time and we’ve just got to keep hijacking threads to poke holes into Strikeforce’s show. IT’S GOING TO BOMB SO BAD ONLY 9 AND A HALF PEOPLE AND A DOG ARE GOING TO WATCH IT! DIE FEDOR! UFC! UFC! UFC! UFC!
Every cable station has a demographic they go after. George Lucas discussed this when he was trying to get The Clone Wars onto a station. Each has their little box carved out. Introducing anything outside of that box, and the stations don’t know how to handle it. Dave Meltzer also talked about the MTV demographic at some length during Wrestling Society X. I remember it surprised me at the time as I thought MTV had mire male viewers.
And I don’t think Strikeforce is going to failNotary am I rooting for that. But if a few people just want to bash me for making some valid points about potential pitfalls in what SF is doing…. Then I guess they just want to bash no matter what.
If you really want me to be critical of SF…. Here it is….. They continue to out on fights that are easier to predict the winners of, taking a good amount if enjoyment away from their shows. They is mainly due to a weaker roster. This CBS card is no different. 3 out of the 4 fights will have pretty favored fighters going into it.
Ortiz v. Griffin is great, but I am unsure what Lyoto does after the Shogun fight. Assuming Lyoto wins there (sorry Shogun fans), who is in line for him while you run Griffin v. Ortiz and Rashad v. Silva? There really is no one else anywhere near the top of the LHW division (unless I am completely blanking on someone). I guess the winner of Griffin v. Ortiz will get the next shot, with the winner of Rashad v. Silva after that?
Jesus, why is Mousasi vs. Sokoudjou a non-title fight? Either make it a title fight or don’t book the fight.
If Couture beats Vera, I’m 100% sure he’ll get a shot at Machida.
I also don’t get it why Mousasi vs. Sokoudjou is not for the title. Soko is the best contender available and it’s not like he’s gonna fight Gegard for 5 rounds, he’ll gas after 5 minutes.
Wolverine is correct. Machida vs. Couture will happen if Randy wins at UFC 105. I understand why the UFC would book that fight, but man I hate it. Couture has no business being in there with a guy like Machida. And beating Vera doesn’t warrant a title fight. It will have to be a very very good undercard for me to purchase that event.
Is the Soko-Mousasi fight not a title fight because they don’t have Soko committed beyond this show to SF and they’d be concerned about him winning the belt and not defending it?
They’re already in a tough spot with all of their titles so if there was some sort of contractual restriction (is he on loan from DREAM?) that might explain the nervousness to do a title match.
Every single channel has more female viewers. It’s because there are 51% females and 49% males in the world.
You say it daily.
Nor do I believe you typed that with a straight face. That’s why you typed “Notary”, you meant to put “nor” but you were laughing so hard at the absurdity you typo’ed.
Your valid points are so obvious repeating them daily just comes off like trolling. We get it. No other MMA promotion has any marketable stars. UFC has every single fight that could gross more than $50. We’re all idiots for not staging a violent coup to help make MMA into one UFC-run organization because no fighter not under UFC contract is known by one single casual fan. BIZ BIZ BIZ. Reruns of Temptation Island, the Time Life hair metal box set informercial and a test of the emergency broadcast system are going to beat Strikeforce in the ratings. All hail Zuffa. We get it.
Mark,
Everyday it seems now, you come attacking my posts. If you don’t like them, just ignore them. It’s that simple.
And the mistyping was due to my phone.
“Every single channel has more female viewers.”
And this is just plain wrong.
Tito vs Forrest is a way more interesting match up. Both guys have something to prove, even if this is just a warm-up fight for Tito. Looking forward to this. I wonder if Tito will smack talk about Forrest running from the octagon in his previous loss.
As far as I’m concerned, MTV has the same demographic as the NFL, College Football, March Madness, Oprah, and Jerry Springer.
Robert Poole
If Sokoudjou somehow beats Mousasi, Strikeforce still has to bring him back to do a rematch. They should’ve secured long term deal with him in the first place.
You can’t ignore your posts. They derail every other discussion. Things are going along about FIGHTS and then you come in with the BIZ BIZ BIZ ZUFFA OWNS YOUR SOUL and then it becomes a partisan case of your fellow Danaites like Roadblock, Wolverine and michaelinthebox parroting your “ZUFFA ROOLZ STRIKEFORCE DROOLZ” which leads to Gaijin, Robert, Alan and Ivan coming back calling you shills and then you all come back with the “why’s everybody always picking on me? 🙁 ” Then when things get back on track you come back with your trolling “STRIKEFORCE FIGHTERS EAT DOG TURDS!” which riles everybody up again to continue the endless cycle. So even if I do ignore you, somebody else will just come along to hurt your little feelings.
Securing a long-term deal with someone who wants to fight on a per-fight basis is kind of difficult, no? Could it not be Sokoudjou’s choice?
Well if he doesn’t want to sign a long term deal Strikeforce shouldn’t put him on the CBS show.
@ Robert Poole
If thats the case, then why would they even put the title on Mousasi in the first place?
People who keep saying RTS (Rameau Thierry Sokoudjou) is the best contender for that title gotta be kidding. There are plenty of others better then this guy who post a 7-4 record and just came off beating a weak Bob Sapp. They could have found an unkonwn with a better record to put in the spotlight.
It’s the best fight for Mousasi, though. I understand that at some point you have to balance business versus the competitive aspect, but bringing in a name coming off of some wins who could pose a challenge in order to build up the rising star of Mousasi is better than having him fight an undeserving fighter that they have under contract.
For the record, I think it’s moronic to feature their light heavyweight champion in a non-title fight…but then again, maybe you can bill this as the matchup that was supposed to happen in Dream’s open weight Super Hulk tournament. Have they confirmed this fight is at 205?
Name a fighter not in the UFC who is a better challenger for Mousasi at Light Heavyweight. The two next best are Ricardo Arona and King Mo. And I would have both ranked below Sokoudjou.
@ Zheroen
I dont know, still just dont see this as the best fight possible. This is a throwaway fight. I can see why its not a title fight. This fight shouldnt happen in the first place. I like Mousasi but put him up against a worthy competitor.
What isn’t a throwaway fight for Mousasi at Light Heavyweight?
45 is right, who would you put him up against at this point? Arona? I’m sure Scott Coker dreads the thought of Southworth or Ruiz getting another crack at the belt. Outside of a blown up middleweight, there aren’t a lot of options outside of the UFC.
This fixation on the Strikeforce belts is a non-issue to me. Mousasi is not the LHW MMA champion, Oveerem is not the HW MMA champion etc. Fedor is the only guy who is the real champion and his fights should always be 5 rounds (I would have all big fights be 5 rounds in general, but thats a different issue).
By recognizing the Strikeforce belts we are just giving credibility to paper titles. Same goes for Lesnar in the UFC.
I can’t believe that anyone would bitch about the CBS card, its miles better then anything EliteXC did on network TV. It has great fights top to bottom and its one of the better cards of the year for free on network TV. Yet ZUFFA mupets want it to fail. MMA has one of the strangest fan bases in all of sports.
Good point 45 Huddle…rather them get Manhoef in Strikeforce and have him fight at Light Heavyweight for a return match. Or go get Mohammed Lawal or something. He will end up in Strikeforce at some point anyways.
The non title fight isnt an issue to me. But to some people its a big deal. And MK, like boxing there are many titles, not saying its the ultimate title or THE title to follow. But come on, its the companies titles.
Champions should not be in non-title fights, period.
What happens if RTS pulls out one of his infamous upsets, and Dream won’t release him for a rematch because they want to promote it?
Or if RTS wins and ends up getting tapped out by Minowa in the Super Hulk finals?
Pride had the same deal with their joke of a lightweight title back in the day. Gomi gets choked out in a non-title bout and Aurelio loses to Ishida before he gets his rematch for the title.
If Strikeforce want to promote serious championships, they need to have challengers with multi-fight commitments.