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Vitor Belfort becomes a very popular name again
By Zach Arnold | September 20, 2009
Local UFC 103 coverage: Dallas Morning News | Fort Worth Star-Telegram | McKinney Courier-Gazette
There was a healthy amount of stories on the news wires about Vitor Belfort’s win over Rich Franklin. A surprising amount of press, and most of it was on the straight-and-narrow. In fact, dare I say, a lot of it positive. One curious media note is that The LA Times had their core group of writers work the Mayweather show and just ran an AP wire report on UFC 103. Belfort credited part of his win over Franklin due to focusing on karate training. The Canadian Press has a good event report.
As you would imagine, Mayweather’s lopsided win over Juan Manuel Marquez dominated the traditional sports media in terms of coverage. The media coverage of the fight and the aftermath is, at best, mixed. Reuters has a report on Mayweather whining after the fight and playing the ‘no respect’ card. A lot of newspaper writers are focusing on Shane Mosley’s challenge to Mayweather after the fight. Most cheered Shane’s appeal for a match, while Fox Sports said that Mosley ‘ruined’ Mayweather’s win over Marquez.
To top it all off, Manny Pacquiao says he will file a defamation suit against Floyd Mayweather Sr. because Sr. claimed that Pacquiao is a steroid user.
Topics: Boxing, Media, MMA, UFC, Zach Arnold | 74 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |
The Floyds are such charming people
It amazes me how anybody will continue to watch Floyd Mayweather. He is an idiot. He has 3 fights in a row where e has fought a guy past his prime and two smaller fighters. All 3 could not threaten him physically. If he does not fight Mosley or the winner or the Cotto/Manny fight, he is a disgrace.
Also, there was nothing fun in watching him fight last night. A very very predictable outcome.
As for the UFC…. Last night delivered despite the card on paper being less then stellar. I wasn’t a huge fan of the main event just because it was so sudden. I like to see a little bit more of a war. The UFC now has another MW Title Contender in Belfort. A HW one in Dos Santos. An basically nobody for GSP. They need to give Koschecm a rematch with Paulo Thiago and then get him in a title fight.
Worst performance last night was Martin Kampmann. The guy lacks any sort of brains while he is fighting…..
I agree. Kampmann didn’t do enough to try to take it to the ground. Jake Shields barely has a stand-up game and he was able to take down Daley and beat him no problem. Kampmann is more well-rounded and is supposed to be better than the more limited Shields but he just didn’t fight a smart fight.
Watching Floyd Mayweather last night was like watching Anderson Silva’s last two middleweight fights, except with a concerted attempt to finish and more technique/athleticism. Pretty great to watch, actually. Not the best fight in the world, but that was expected going in. Undercard was really good too. Katsidis/Escobedo was better than any of the UFC fights by a pretty long margin.
UFC I’ve seen all the fights that I wanted to see (ie; not Emerson/Dos Anjos LOL) except the main thus far, and it reminds me of something I’ve said many times. The MMA fanbase is far more forgiving to onesided beatdowns so long as they end quickly, get the bodies out, and throw two more guys in there. Franca, Trigg, and Cro-Cop all looked like guys who’s place in the UFC is muddled. They’re all big enough names that they shouldn’t be in unaired prelims, but that’s the talent level they’re at right now at best. You can make a case they’re taking up space from better fighters, which they probably are.
I’m glad to see no one is pretending Paul Daley is an elite welter though. I still sorta expect that to start up soon.
“Watching Floyd Mayweather last night was like watching Anderson Silva’s last two middleweight fights, except with a concerted attempt to finish and more technique/athleticism. Pretty great to watch, actually.”
Did…did you just say Mayweather makes more of an effort to finish, and has more technique and athleticism than A.Silva?
Did I understand that right or was there a typo?
Compared to his last two middleweight fights, yes, he did. Mayweather was strafing Marquez with everything in the last two rounds, busting up his nose and putting him on queer street. Silva basically danced the night away in the 5th against Leites.
And yes, I’m more impressed with Mayweather’s skills and athleticism than Silva’s. Silva is an impressive shark in a shallow pool. His domination of Leites and Cote was every bit as expected and self evident as what Mayweather did last night, except Mayweather did it against a technically adept elite boxer, and Silva was just fighting middle of the road guys.
Well the Mayweather fight was a lot more lopsided then anyone could have predicted. I didn’t have Marquez winning one round. The fight was kind of like vs Baldomir but more impressive from a tactical standpoint. A master class performance in a mismatch, Floyd should have pushed harder for the KO but he looked better then ever after nearly two years off.
Good comeback fight, but now he needs to fight either Pac or an elite welterweight. You never know with Floyd, but he still needs the money and he won’t get the big paydays for fighting scrubs.
I have no interest in ever watching Rocky Juarez on a high profile card again. Its enough, being an American of Mexican heritage and a former Olympian should only take you so far without winning a big fight.
Glad to see Katsidis get the win, I prefer the old reckless version but he is fighting smarter. Him vs Valero and Soto would be great.
While the last two fights of the PPV were one sided I was pleased with the PPV top to bottom. Every match was meaningful and the production was more tight.
Caught the UFC after, a lot of quick KOs. Thats good and bad. I like definitive finishes but I would also like to see an actual fight. Cro Cop needs to retire, he looked like a feeble old man. He legs look half the size as they did in his prime. For me Cro Cop is physically done and I think dropping the roids after 2006 sped up the aging process. I don’t care what any Tuffer might say, Cro Cop was a force in his day in both kickboxing and MMA. He has had a great career.
Good win for Belfort but he has a very slight chance against Anderson. Silva would defeat him mentally before the fight.
Griffin-Franca looked like two crazed circus midgets swinging wildly.
Katsidis/Valero is the first fight I thought of after watching him last night. Guaranteed barn burner. Antonio DeMarco would be great too. Ali Funeka too.
Cro Cop`s problem seems to be more mental than physical. He doesn`t fight with the same confidence. Put in a powerful strike who will overwhelm him and Cro Cop folds mentally. It`s hard to believe looking at him now that Cro Cop was not far off from being a K-1 champion. Don`t get me wrong, some MMA guys could hang in K-1 (ie. Overeem definitely doesn`t feel out of place, Manhoef is pretty good, maybe Mousasi too at the sub-100 kg weight class) but I don`t think Dos Santos is one of them. Cro Cop has really lost it. I doubt that Cro Cop is desperate for money given the opportunities he has in Croatia with the politics and maybe he could go into a senior position at the old anti-terrorism unit. And I doubt the UFC is going to continue paying him large to lose to up-and-comers. So he should prepare to wind things down.
Guys, when you read Dana White’s comments about the Mayweather PPV sucking, know this: he did NOT see the Mayweather fight. He left the room where they had the PPV on right as the Mayweather vs. Marquez was about to start, in order to be cageside for Vitor vs. Franklin. He didn’t see much of the undercard either.
“It sucked just like I thought it would, just like I knew it would,” White said of Mayweather’s unanimous decision victory over Juan Manuel Marquez in his first fight in nearly two years.
“It was a horrendous. It went to a 12-round boring decision.”
I’m not a Floyd fan, but give it up, Dana Junior. You are admittedly uneducated about boxing but yet you harp on it endlessly. Go to a boxing forum and say Ali was overrated for a wake up call of your painful ignorance. I don’t watch basketball, but I also won’t tell you how much it sucks because I don’t know.
First off, this is his first fight in 2 years, who isn’t going to be a little rusty. Secondly, he plays the weight cutting game. So do nearly every MMA fighter in the United States. I guess we should discount all of Anderson Silva’s Middleweight wins and tell GSP he’s just beating up on smaller guys. Hell, Sean Sherk is probably 30 pounds too heavy to be a Lightweight, I guess he’s a loser just like Mayweather.
UFC had a fun show to watch. Kampmann must read a lot of MMA boards because he fought like he believes the Daley hype. Good for Vitor, I expected him to lose since he came in overweight and usually that indicates a half-assed training session, but he looked great. Anderson Silva is going to clean his clock, though.
Cro Cop has one more loss where he isn’t even worth it to stay around as a “starmaker”. Just cut your losses and send him to DREAM where he can get fed cans until he fights Fedor again next December. I don’t know for sure if he was using steroids in PRIDE, but he was definitely protected better than most of their fighters, I think that’s the difference.
Exactly what is the difference in BJ Penn moving up and getting dominated by GSP and JMM moving up and getting dominated by PBF. Nobody thought PBF would be so dominant. His an awesome boxer with a skill set not seen in a long time. The way he avoids getting hit is something else. So many punches hit his arms and shoulders.
How was Hatton past his prime when he fought Mayweather. Hatton was recognised as the #1 Super LW in the world who had also won a world title at WW. Hatton went into that fight unbeaten many thought he had the style to trouble PBF. To try and claim PBF fought a smaller fight past his prime in Hatton is absurd.
I would rather PBF fights the winner out of Pacman and Cotto next but it will be one of those two or Sugar Shane. Mayweather and Golden Boy want big fights and there is no reason to have Floyd not fight 1 of those 3.
The Mayweather hate from people who supported Rich/Vitor or Lyoto/Shogun or Ken/Tito or BJ/GSP is hilarious.
People literally have no clue what they are talking about and just repeating Dana White talking points.
I don’t even think you can say Dana Junior supported any of those fighters because he almost never talks about fighters. It’s like he’s a bigger fan of cheering on a corporation than cheering on a fighter. It’s always “The UFC had such a great show” not “I really enjoyed that one fight.” He is one bizarre individual if he isn’t just doing this gimmick to be a troll.
He also loves the Yankees which makes me wonder if he goes to baseball sites and talks about their revenue being more than the Red Sox revenue and how much he loves Steinbrenner (who ironically is the Dana White of MLB), never mentioning any of the players.
Just FYI. Dana and the Fertittas sit cageside with monitors to watch whatever they want. I vividly remember Matt Hughes Looking over danas shoulder to watch DLH-Hopkins I think. Plus some of UFC people were watching backstage postfight. Dana did not watch the whole fight, but he watched some for sure.
Whether the fight sucked or not, it’s definitely going to best UFC 103 in the buyrates. I’d be absolutely shocked if it didn’t get at least 300,000 more buys than Franklin-Belfort. With all the bluster coming from Dana, that simply wasn’t a card to beat a high profile boxing fight. So what’s the spin going to be? We had the moral victory because our show was more entertaining?
I’m sure boxing is going to say this proves they’re bigger than UFC (and they already are simply going off Google searches for results being significantly higher than UFC 103) but it doesn’t mean anything either. They had their superstar best a card featuring a declining star losing to a guy who hasn’t been in the UFC in ages. 103 gets 400,000 tops. Mayweather does 700,000-1.1 million.
That was a masterful performance by Floyd Mayweather, Jr. What he did to Juan Manuel Marquez is far more impressive than what he (Mayweather) did to De la Hoya or Hatton; or what Pacquiao did to De la Hoya or Hatton; because Marquez is still a top-level fighter and one of the very best in boxing. The fact that Marquez’ connect percentages were so shockingly low is a testament to the fact that it wasn’t about size in the fight as much as it was about technique and defense, and it’s no easy feat to “out-technique” Juan Manuel Marquez.
“Plus some of UFC people were watching backstage postfight.”
I watched rounds 6 through 9 backstage in the room where they had the PPV. It was just me and some lady who was texting the entire time.
Mark,
What did I say that was incorrect? You bash in my multiple posts, and even quoted me, but don’t tell me how I’m wrong. Just insults. To me, you are the troll here, as you are blatantly bashing me and yet haven’t proven I’m wrong.
FMJ’s last 3 fights have been against…. ODLH, who was well past his prime. This is not a fact (as it is subjective), but well established….. Hatton, who is physically smaller then him. FACT!!! JMM, who is physically smaller then him. FACT!!! That isn’t playing the weight cutting game. That’s taking smaller fighters and having them fight above what they should so he doesn’t have to worry about power punches and can do his fancy footwork all day long. It doesn’t take a hardcore fan to figure that out.
As for the Yankees…. I think a lot of MMA athletes could do wonders by following the careers and interviews of guys like Derek Jeter and Mariano Rivera. These two guys constantly say they will do whatever Steinbrennar wants. Whatever Girardi wants (the coach). They are the postboys for how an athlete should be. And don’t forget, the Yankees have one of the toughest policies when it comes to conduct, even requiring specific types of clothing to be worn to and from a game, and they are unable to have facial hair below the mouth or longer hair.
Sadly, in MMA, when a fighter says they will do whatever Dana White wants, they are constantly bashed. And yet the best city in the world cheers for their star athletes who basically say the same things all the time. Further proof MMA fans are a bunch of haters…
As for Ali…. Are you honestly going to tell me he is the greatest boxer of all time? Seriously? You can’t be that naive. I could go on a boxing forum right now and say Ali is not the greatest boxer of all time, and most of the diehard fans would probably agree with me.
Lastly, I do have favortie fighters. I just don’t talk about them because I don’t see the point when discussing the business side of MMA. Everytime GSP fights, I am absolutely pumped for his fights. I’m a huge Nathan Marquardt fan, have been since he broke into the Pancrase organization back in 1999. There are others, but those are the big two…..
Getting back to Floyd Mayweather…. I stand by my comment that his fight was pointless. He needs to be fighting Welterweights. NATURAL WELTERWEIGHTS, like Cotto, Williams, or Mosley. Guys who can threaten him with power punches that if he gets hit by them will hurt. It COMPLETELY changes the spectrum of how he can fight, and makes for at least a fair fight. Him picking off old timers and lighter fighters is the biggest joke going on in boxing the last 3 years. Too bad even the fans are too blind to see it.
“The fact that Marquez’ connect percentages were so shockingly low is a testament to the fact that it wasn’t about size in the fight as much as it was about technique and defense, and it’s no easy feat to “out-technique” Juan Manuel Marquez.”
I disagree. The size difference still plays a major role in it.
Floyd can orchestrate his style because he KNOWS he can’t get hit with a shot that will knock him out. The JMM just isn’t big enough to do so. If he had to fight a guy who is a natural Welterweight, and becomes a little more like MMA, in which it is closer to a ZERO SUM GAME. What I mean by that is that you have to protect against even one big punch, because it could knock you down or out. And that would force FMJ to change his style, even slightly, to protect against that. And that would make him less effective.
Watch and see. If he fights Cotto or Mosley next, they are going to KO him in the later rounds.
watching mayweather dominate was great, rich franklin main event – meh.
Rich Franklin has never given me that “great event” feeling postfight.
45, how would you compare this fight to say BJ Penn vs. GSP? Seriously, BJ had no chance in that fight and it was a giant product of hype.
The same for Ken/Tito and a few other fights. I’m pretty sure you are just going to say “well they did good business,” which is absolutely the correct answer, but I’m guessing so did Floyd/Marquez.
Dave,
A giant produc of hype? You have to be joking. You are forgetting one very simple fact about GSP vs. Penn 2….. And that is GSP vs. Penn 1.
MMA is different. Some smaller guys, due to their style can compete at higher weight classes with some success. BJ Penn is one of those fighters. Before fighting GSP for a second time, he already had a win over Matt Hughes. He already beat up Hughes for 2 rounds before hurting his ribs and losing. He already gave Machida (a LHW) the toughest fight of his career. He already came very close to beating GSP the first time (but I did think GSP won). Plainly put, Penn had a long history of being able to compete in weight classes above Lightweight with some solid success. So you might have seen GSP/Penn 2 as hype, but the reality of it is that Penn one paper was a legit threat to GSP, despite being an underdog.
Boxing is very different in that regard. Most fighters who move up in weight class lose the power needed to KO their opponents, and end up suffering because of it. While people complain about how many weight classes are in boxing, there can be a huge difference for even 5 pounds. That same is not always the case for MMA.
Lastly, I don’t justify Ortiz/Shamrock. I understand why the UFC did it, but I will not justify it. I have often bashed Ortiz for getting an easier set of opponents. Even recently I made fun of him for getting Coleman on his return fight. I believe my comment was something like: “Nobody has gotten more gimmie fights in the UFC then Tito Ortiz”…. Or something to that effect. Ortiz is a lot of hype. I’m willing to give him a second chance now that he has gotten back surgery, but he needs to prove it with a few key wins before he gets back into the title shot again.
Obviously I agree with you on the Ortiz front, as he has been given an alarming amount of gimme fights in his career. But then again, they did humble him with the Machida fight (but he looked the best anybody has against Machida, try to wrap your head around that one).
As for BJ/GSP being a rematch, while a valid point, the maturation of GSP was a huge factor. BJ had not shown that, he was just the same old BJ with better cardio.
Why did BJ lose the fight against GSP? Outskilled and outpowered, right? It was that GSP was fighting at a weight class 15lbs above BJ’s natural weight class. Marquez only fought up 10lbs last night.
If you are going to call a spade a spade, you have to take an objective look at BJ/GSP II.
Apologies, Jonathan. I didn’t mean to start on the slippery slope of devolving into a petty argument. Re-reading what I wrote, I can see that it looks like I was starting to get pissy. It’s just that I bristled when I read White’s comments about the Mayweather PPV when I know that he wasn’t sitting there watching the thing.
Also, I made a typo. I watched rounds 6 through 8 in that room.
“Why did BJ lose the fight against GSP? Outskilled and outpowered, right? It was that GSP was fighting at a weight class 15lbs above BJ’s natural weight class. Marquez only fought up 10lbs last night.”
BJ Penn lost to GSP the first time because of cardio. If he was in good shape, he would have won that fight. It was only when he was starting to gas that GSP was able to take over.
“Marquez only fought up 10lbs last night.”
Apples and Oranges. First, GSP & Penn are naturally bigger then FMJ & JMM, so percentage wise, I wouldn’t be shocked if they the differences were pretty similar. Secondly, there is a big difference between a 10 to 15 pound weight difference in boxing then there is when grappling is involved. Grappling changes all aspects of fighting, and with the right style makes the weight differences less of a factor. Still a factor, but less of a factor.
Maybe Sr. saw the pic of Pacquiao and Batista
I was referencing the rematch, 45, the one where BJ got next to no offense in due to being too small and underpowered against GSP.
Ah, yes, switching the burden of proof surely isn’t a troll move….
All I said was that you were offering opinions on things you don’t know about, as you say like a broke record how much you’ve despised boxing this decade. I despise country music, I’m not going to offer opinions on what it does wrong. Obviously you can’t say someone’s opinion is wrong, since opinions aren’t right or wrong, so proving you wrong isn’t possible. If you think the fight sucked and people who were entertained were idiots for thinking so, then that’s the way you feel. But I would suggest learning a little if you’re going to have such a strong opinion.
You’re judging your opinions of boxing by stand-up Mixed Martial Arts. There are no boxers in MMA, there are strikers. You’ve shown since 2006 you don’t know the difference between the two. And that’s fine, you’re not obligated to learn about boxing if you just like MMA. But you come off looking foolish everytime we get your “boxing is boring” speech. Saying “I don’t like boxing” is totally different.
A knockout is only one way to win a boxing fight. None of the “smaller fighters” have come close to out-pointing him. Take a look at Compubox numbers. It’s not unheard of for smaller fighters to win boxing matches. Actually, it happens more than in MMA since strength is more important than beyond punching strength.
Oh here we go again with “Oh, the burdens of being a UFC fan!” We get it. This isn’t 2006 anymore when PRIDE fans are looking down on UFC fans, you guys won the war. I guess you’re addicted to playing the persecuted. You don’t have any financial stake in the company, take a step back if it’s this psychologically damaging to you. I am so sick and tired of the “Say nice things about Dana!” Dana White can dish it out, why can’t he take it?
Well, you keep saying this but you never tell us who is better and why. P4P Sugar Ray Robinson gets the majority of the G.O.A.T nods (rightfully), and yeah Ali gets 95% of the HW nods. Not because he had the greatest record like Marciano, or had so many highlight reel KOs like Tyson: but because he dominated during the toughest talent pool heavyweight boxing had. He withstood Sonny Liston, George Foreman, Joe Frazier, Floyd Patterson, and Ken Norton, that’s a huge chunk of most greatest heavyweights lists. The majority of his losses came from when he should have been retired, in his prime he was pretty much untouchable. And who knows how much better his record would have been if he didn’t get banned from boxing for 3 years, since that was the prime of his athletic life (67-70.)
But I’d love to hear who your best HW is.
PBF fought Oscar at 154lbs when he was fighting at 140lbs. He moved up 2 weight classes. As I said Hatton was a WW World champion and the size had nothing to do with how that fight went.
Moseley doesnt beat PBF. PBF would outbox him and basically negate Mosley’s speed just like Cotto did. Fact is Mosley is desperate for a big fight. He even said he would fight pacman at 140lbs which is absurd.
liger05 is on the right track. A lot of the guys from 130 – 150lbs in boxing jump around looking for the best fights and the biggest payouts.
Those are the fights that sell tickets and PPVs.
Last three years of these arguments with 45:
Making fights that appeal to casual fans in boxing with competition as secondary consideration: Bad, because they are illegitimate.
Making fights that appeal to casual fans in MMA with competition as secondary consideration: Good because they sell PPVs and help DA BIZ.
I don’t know what’s better from him; these repeated chestnuts or the racial discussion a couple topics down.
Mark,
Nothing like talking in circles for you….
1. YOU are the one who responded to my post initially, not the other way around. In fact, you did so a few times without a response from me, and continued to bash me. So don’t tell me the burden of proof is on me. You have yet to tell me how I am wrong on why I was putting down FMJ. You have bashed me more for my comments, but not proven me wrong. And it isn’t opinion based. What I am saying is fact. He fought smaller guys. That is a fact. And ODLH was over the hill, not a fact, but pretty much universally recognized.
2. No crap there is more then one way to win a boxing match. Read my post above that outlines why the weight advantage matters so much. The fact that he doesn’t have to worry about the power shots from over the hill and smaller fighters, allows him to implement his style perfectly. He would not be able to do that perfectly against the legit Welterweights in boxing. He took a few shots in that fight that if they came from Mosley or Cotto, would have knocked him on his behind. That has NOTHING to do with MMA. Just look at Heavyweight boxing as an extreme example of that. Obviously they are slower, but they have to fight a very conservative style to avoid the big KO punch. That same basic principle applies to the smaller guys, only on a lesser scale.
3. For the Yankees… You are the one who brought them up, not me. So don’t bash me for talking about what good qualities that sport has that would be nice to see in MMA. And this has nothing to do with Pride at all. All it does is showcase what a good athlete does for the people paying him. And an entire city of people love him for it.
You act like I never watch boxing. I do. I am just more of a casual fan. But even a casual fan can see the complete holes in your logic.
Obviously Ali is not the best boxer of all time. You even stated who is above him. A guy who you might have never heard of named Joe Louis. Held the belt for a decade. Might not have been multiple time world champion like Ali, but that’s just because he didn’t lose it. Didn’t Ali come up just a little bit short on the big stage against Frazier in their first fight? Come on. No greatest of all time should be doing that…. In the fight he hyped himself up as the Fight of the Century. When you lose The Fight of the Century…. How can you be the best of all time? Wouldn’t it mean he wasn’t even the best of the century? Now, I’m ribbing you slightly now, but I’ve made my point.
Seriously why pick on a dude for his choice in baseball team? This is a site about combat sports.
Death to all non-Dodgers fans!!
Ed. — Poor Giants…
When someone says that the size difference had nothing to do with Mayweather speed dominance they obviously haven’t read anything what Nacho Bernstein said before the fight. Marquez camp expressed multiple concerns about him bulking 2 weight classes up would affect his speed.
As for Mayweather opposition. He fought his last 6 fights at welterweight (with exception of ODH) and none of it was against Margarito, Mosley, Cotto nor Williams. Enough said.
Nacho was obviously concerned with Marquez’s speed as in the first two 24/7 eps he outright said that he had to work with Juan on his handspeed to go with his bulking up. Granted, Nacho seemed content with him later on, but that was most likely when they realized they were airing some weaknesses out on national television.
Okay, I’ll elaborate further if you still can’t get it. So read very carefully.
Why are you wrong? Because the opinion of casual fans should not be put above what real fans believe.
You look at everything through a Zuffa-jaundiced eye. You’ve got to compare everything to how it stacks up against what Dana White does. That’s fine for MMA, but boxing is not the same sport. How many boxing journalists or hardcore fans do you see that were A) Outraged Mayweather is fighting “naturally smaller guys” or B) Say any of his fights suck. And I’m not talking about “Well, I asked my neighbor what he thought of the fight last night and he blew a raspberry.” I mean legit journalists and serious fans. Floyd is not a popular guy, but people respect his talent even if they think he’s an asshole. Of course they want him to fight Mosely and Cotto but they aren’t calling any of his wins illegitimate: lots of people thought he could lose or get a skin of his teeth win. And every account I’ve seen beyond you and your idol Dana has been “Floyd was impressive.” Both of you have an admitted agenda to shoot holes in the event so what you have to say doesn’t matter. Like I said I do not like basketball, but if NBA or NCAA fans say a game was great I will take their word for it. I won’t say “But that NFL game was so much more entertaining and you’re an idiot if you liked it.”
You further prove your complete ignorance to boxing with the constant harping on it’s the reason UFC should get dictatorship control over the entire sport of MMA, because otherwise dream fights can’t happen. Any fight that can make money in boxing eventually happens. It might not happen as fast as you would like it to, but it eventually happens because people can’t say no to a huge amount of money. It’s not a perfect system, but boxing is run like a democracy and those are never perfect, filled with assholes running the show which always sucks. But you can ditch those assholes for somebody better in a democracy. In a one-man controlled Zuffa you’re stuck with the one asshole forever. Your dream vision of the UFCCP with Dana Stalin in state control of every aspect is like communism, and most people would rather put up with the imperfections of a democracy than have one individual control every aspect of everything because he “knows best.” Dana could still make a boatload of money if he were to work with Strikeforce on Fedor-Lesnar. But despite all the “I don’t want to help Showtime make money because they’re doo-doo heads” front, the truth is he’s scared that Fedor would win and people would realize there is an alternative to his product with good fighters. He escaped that when he took Liddell to PRIDE, but now it would be huge news. Right now he can Pravda his way to UFC fans with the “pay no attention to the evil empire in the west (of Nevada)!” But if they were seen as equals with a win over one of his champions he could not handle it. That is the truth. Or capitalized FACT as you put it.
Now, on to Joe Louis vs. Muhammad Ali. It again goes back to who had the tougher fight schedule. It’s also why Robinson gets the P4P nod, because even though he lost a few big fights, he dominated in the best middleweight era ever. The 60s through mid-70s were the golden age of heavyweight boxing, and Ali fought a who’s who of boxing hall of famers. If your biggest reasoning for why he isn’t #1 is because he lost to Frazier, remember he also beat him twice decisively, so you‘ve got a poor argument. Louis’ toughest fights were against Baer and Schmeling, but the rest of his opponents didn’t have nearly the amount of Hall of Famers that Ali did. I’m not saying his record was as padded as Rocky Marciano, but Ali’s is more impressive and that’s the only way to judge someone. It’s why Frank Shamrock isn’t seen as nearly as great of a fighter as any of the UFC’s champions today: they have tougher competition than he ever did regardless of how their win-loss record compares against his.
As for the Yankees dig, it was a joke at your love of business more than a love of sports. It’s always “this fight is good because it’s good for Zuffa’s business” not “Man, this is going to be a FOTY candidate.” Like I said, everything I’ve seen from you for the 3 years I’ve been on FightOpinion is always coming across like Dana White is your favorite fighter. Which is fitting because Dana White is Dana White’s very favorite fighter too. He is one of the boys, after all.
And all of that too.
Mayweather’s last 6 fights have not been at Welterweight at all. He fought Mitchell at Junior WW. Next was Zab Judah at WW for his first WW World title. After this fight Mosley beat Vargas in their 2nd fight and Larry Merchant quizzed Shane about a fight with PBF and Mosley brought out the excuses. He didn’t wanna fight PBF then. PBF then fought Baldomir (the guy that beat Judah). Next was a step up to Junior MW where beat Oscar for the WBC title. He then fought the best 140lb fighter in the World in Hatton at WW and then the best LW in the world in JMM at WW
4 Fights at WW. one at Super WW and one at JW. If anything it just confirms that fighters between 135 and 147 move about the divisions.
Wolverine you argue that his never fought Margarito, Mosley, Cotto but as I said the Mosley fight was there but Shane never wanted it. Margarito after his win v Cotto become a main attraction but PBF wasn’t even in the sport then. It could be argued a fight v Cotto wasn’t made.
Mayweather was impressive, and although it is a far cry from ‘fight of the year’ as a boxing fan it was a meaningful display. Deep inside any real fan we knew the fight was going to be UD 12, we didn’t order it hoping otherwise. But this performance is one more solid brick in his career…he utterly dominated a fellow grandmaster, mostly with speed.
Still 45 is correct that Mayweather has yet to fight a bona fide welterweight. That is next up. When Mayweather’s career is done we may be surprised at how intelligent he has been in his matchmaking…he has taken a full 5 years to grow into a welterweight body before facing a genuine, prime welter. Let’s not forget that Mayweather is from the same weight realms as Marquez.
As far as UFC putting one one-sided marquee fights, forget GSP vs. Penn 2… what about Bisping vs. Henderson, Silva vs. Griffin, and Belfort vs. Franklin? None of these recent, main event-level matches were even remotely competitive. The only surprise was that Bisping made it to round two vs. Henderson before getting knocked out.
Admitting Anderson Silva, Dan Henderson, and Vitor Belfort were far superior to their opponents is impossible. It would be saying Zuffa-created stars like the two TUF superstars and their old middleweight “Ace” are inferior.
I don’t know if I’d go all the way with that argument. Forrest’s ballsy style was tailor made to get KTFO by Anderson’s counterstrikes, and anybody who thought otherwise was foolish. I can’t stand Bisping, for all of the Fedor-protection bitching we hear UFC fans almost never chastise UFC for protecting Bisping with an even easier fight schedule than Tito got. And the two times they gave him a hard fight (versus Rashad and Hendo) he loses. Hopefully they kick his arse to the curb now that they’ve got Daley to put UK butts in seats, because he’s a total bust. I won’t bash Franklin as I’ve been a fan of his for years, but it is hilarious they’ve buried Vitor for years for failing to live up to his hype, and would have massacred his legacy if the Fedor fight happened and then even more when he lost, only showing him in a positive light when they ran Ultimate Knockouts with his Wandy KO against PRIDE’s Hendo-Wandy card, and now he’s getting ass-kissed to high heaven as the one guy who could finally dethrone Silva.
liger05
You are wrong. Mitchell fight was at WW. So his last 6 fights were at WW or higher (Mitchell, Judah, Baldomir, ODH, Hatton, JMM).
He didn’t fight the best guys in his division, period. I don’t care what are the excuses. Margarito or Cotto fights could’ve been made, he could’ve fought Mosley now instead of JMM.
smoogy
You are missing the point. Pacquiao vs. ODH was also not competetive and noone is complaining because it was Manny who went up in weight. It’s the same as Silva vs. Griffin or Belfort vs. Franklin. These guys challenged themselves fighting former champions at higher weight class.
With Mayweather you have the best fighter in the world who is not fighting the best in his division and hand picking smaller fighters. Now compare him to Anderson Silva or Pacquiao.
Mayweather hasn’t fought a welterweight of note? He beat a guy who was one fight removed from being undisputed welterweight champ. Then he beat the Ring Magazine welterweight champion.
I think Dana White’s petulance about Boxing is getting out of hand to be honest.
Did I think Mayweather-Marquez was going to be all that competitive? Not really. But it’s not as if Marquez as a comeback fight was somehow similar to a Bob Arum-promoted Julio Caesar Chavez Jr. PPV where he fights a bum and pads his record.
Marquez has legitimate credentials. I definitely see the GSP-Penn parallels.
Does everyone want to see PBF-Pacquaio? Sure, but I don’t hear a single boxing fan complaining about Pacquiao-Cotto which might be more dangerous than PBF is for Manny. I don’t think anyone would complain about PBF-Mosely either.
There are great matches to be made out there that don’t diminish a possible dream match. All of this just seems like bitterness by Dana because in the past he himself has had matchups he wanted to make but then when he put together the contenders’ matches they always seemed to get screwed up when his pet project for the moment lost.
Floyd’s win was impressive but disappointing because he probably could have knocked Marquez out but chose not to push the gas pedal down and go for it. As he said in interviews afterwards, “I needed rounds”… which sounds like he took a world class fighter like Marquez and considered him a sparring partner. Considering the dominant performance, that’s rather impressive.
However Floyd will always be similar to Roy Jones Jr. Incredible natural talent and gifts but not exciting enough because neither push for the knockout when they can get it and both will play around too much and lull the audience to sleep.
I watched the UFC PPV as well and I have to say the show wasn’t very good. Sure there were a couple of quick knockouts but I sat in a chat room with a bunch of UFC/MMA fans and not a single one thought Rich Franklin had a chance and in fact we couldn’t find one that thought it would go to the second round. That type of perception means Dana’s just as guilty of booking mismatches.
Oh and I’ll bet Rich Franklin regrets the idiotic, “He has fast hands, so what?” comment in his pre-fight promo.
Rp
Alan when I say bona fide I’m talking in terms of body. Body wise Baldo was a fair WW. Still though I’ll give Baldo the nod as a stocky, rugged WW he isn’t what have in mind as bona fide WW of the top tier. The fact he was a unified champion speaks to the number of jr. welters around at that moment with the straps. The rest of FLoy’ds opponents from Corley on I would characterize as jr. welter guys. ODLH, well I have personal suspicions about him so I don’t count him though don’t knock others if they do.
Like I said the matchmaking and break have given Floyd the time to fill out nicely. When he fights Cotto, who also filled out well, we’ll get the sense of it.
It amazes me how you compare Mayweather vs. JMM to Belfort vs. Franklin in competitiveness. Franklin is more than legitmate MW, he just beat Silva and barely lost to Henderson at 205.
In contrast you have a fight where the best fighter in the world fights a considerably smaller fighter without making contracted weight.
If you want to find something similar in MMA take Fedor vs. Lindland not Franklin vs. Belfort nor Penn vs. GSP 2 (which was a rematch of very competetive fight).
Wolverine,
Seriously? Wanderlei has been washed up for quite some time now. I think Liddell getting a win over him when he himself was washed up sort of makes that point more valid.
Dana made the point for the past few weeks that nobody wanted to see Marquez-Mayweather, that Boxing doesn’t make fights people want to see.
However nobody was clamoring for Franklin-Belfort either. I don’t really know a single person who thought Franklin could win that fight, especially if Vitor blitzed him.
My point however is (and you use another interesting example in Fedor-Lindland, however it’s not a UFC example) that both sides often make fights that aren’t probably the biggest attraction and that the argument that this side doesn’t make the best fights or that side doesn’t is idiotic.
If only the top guys fought the top guys how would there ever be new top guys? (See: WWE for how this screws a promotion over even in a worked environment)
Personally I think Mosely-Mayweather is the best fight for Mayweather. I love Manny but this weekend made me think that PBF’s size difference will be too much for him. Mosely however is fast and is of equal size.
Cotto-Pacman is going to be a tough fight as well.
Just because neither would be Pacquaio-PBF doesn’t mean that neither will be a better fight, because honestly I think that both fights will be better than the supposed dream match here. What’s sad is I saw Yahoo Sports parroting the PBF-Pac or Bust line today as well. The article dismisses Mosely out of hand and tries to diminish the worthiness of such a fight.
To them and to Dana I say, pipe down.
I want to see multiple good fights, not just one great fight. And that’s the way the media pushes this narrative.
Rp
“I’m glad to see no one is pretending Paul Daley is an elite welter though. I still sorta expect that to start up soon.”
Nice.
I love the preemptive strike to discredit people in advance for expressing their opinions.
“No one has given credit to Paul Daley for his performance yet, but if anyone does – you’re a dumb fcuk for bringing it up.”
Liddell was going to beat Wanderlei even in 2003. Styles make fights and Wanderlei’s wild looping shots were never going to best Chuck’s counter punching. I think if anything the only thing affected was Chuck would have knocked Wanderlei out in their primes but couldn’t finish him because he was done for. And I’m a bigger Wanderlei than Chuck fan, but it’s true that like Forrest for Anderson, his style was perfect for Chuck to beat.
It should also be noted that prior to 2000, Dana White was an aspiring boxing manager-slash-promoter. And he never did anything close to noteful in that field. I’m not saying he’s totally bitter 10 years later, since he’s done so well for himself in MMA, but you cannot deny that is a part of his “we must bring down boxing” mindset. He clearly has a “if I can’t have you no one will” attitude to all aspects of his worldview. His marriage must be very interesting.
I can’t wait for the “nobody wants to see boxing” when they get anywhere from 300,000 more to double the buyrate of 103. And again, it wasn’t a fair competition since 103 was hardly a first class show, but it’s going to be amusing to see Dana spin it.